Should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?

[hashman]

Here here!  Ron Paul 2012!

I'm sorry but despite being one of the only honest politicians I've ever come across... and having SOME good economic and social ideas... certainly he's amazing on war and military issues... but overall Ron Paul is a lunatic. He would roll the US back to 1880s labour standards, and give corporations total immunity in terms of forcing all the externalities on the general public. He wants no social organizing, which is really the exact opposite of true anarchism. Him and the new so called "Libertarian Parties" popping up over the past few decades are completely full of shit and have totally bastardized the term. They are essentially far right wing anarcho-capitalists who want to experiment with a totally unregulated market that is designed and guaranteed to fail horribly. Let everyone fend for themselves with no health care or pensions while the profits of the elite skyrocket, and more people become low income wage slaves until the day they die.

His moron son is basically just a tea party asshole who will never have the courage to follow in his father's very honourable footsteps in voting against republican wars and massive debt increasing budgets (like the Paul Ryan bill).

Ron Paul is such a libertarian that he wants to have a federal or state police officer supervising every time a vagina is examined in a doctor's office, to enforce a ban on abortion. Yay individual freedom... for those of us with dicks.

No offense but clearly you aren't basing these opinions of Ron Paul on his own words.  He certainly does not want to give total immunity to corporations, but rather make them not immune but vulnerable to market forces instead of having properly connected politicians bail them out with public funds.  He speaks of ending the forcing of externalities onto the public.  As I'm NOT sure you know he is a doctor himself and certainly does not want no health care or pensions but the freedom to choose what health care and pensions you would like.  

Obviously you never saw him speak on abortion because he would never consider a ban on abortion and consistently says the federal govt. has no authority in that arena.  And where did you get that bit about a federal officer supervising every time a vagina is examined?  Humorously wrong because he IS a gynecologist.  

As for Rand I have no idea because I haven't heard him talk much or checked his voting record (see how that works?), but I have a hunch you are right.    

[1713897931]

1713897931

[1713897931]

1713897931

[1713897931]

1713897931

[1713897931]

1713897931

[Richy_T]

Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.

I suggest you look at how things were before we had an educational system. Things were not as desolate as you might think.

I have, and education was mostly for the elite in those days.
Seriously dude, your computer would not have existed if the world didn't take an initiative to educate the masses.

 In The Transofmration of the American Economy, Robert Higgs touches upon the subject,

In 1870 about 90 percent of adult white Americans could read and write; by 1910, 95 percent possessed these basic skills.  For obvious reasons, literacy was much less prevalent among the nonwhite population - predominately blacks - but improvement was rapid.  In 1870 only about 20 percent of the adult nonwhite population was literate; by 1910 the proportion had increased to 70 percent. (p. 34.)

[mobodick]

Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective.

I suggest you look at how things were before we had an educational system. Things were not as desolate as you might think.

I have, and education was mostly for the elite in those days.
Seriously dude, your computer would not have existed if the world didn't take an initiative to educate the masses.

 In The Transofmration of the American Economy, Robert Higgs touches upon the subject,

In 1870 about 90 percent of adult white Americans could read and write; by 1910, 95 percent possessed these basic skills.  For obvious reasons, literacy was much less prevalent among the nonwhite population - predominately blacks - but improvement was rapid.  In 1870 only about 20 percent of the adult nonwhite population was literate; by 1910 the proportion had increased to 70 percent. (p. 34.)

Jesus f h christ, education is much more than litteracy alone. We don't live in pre-industrial times.
And in any case, by 1870 the educational system was already growing for 100 years.
So in those days about half of that 90% of yours was provided by the educational system.

[Richy_T]

Jesus f h christ, education is much more than litteracy alone. We don't live in pre-industrial times.
And in any case, by 1870 the educational system was already growing for 100 years.
So in those days about half of that 90% of yours was provided by the educational system.

The educational system now bears little resemblance to that of a hundred years ago. Perhaps we need to define what kind of system we are discussing since it covers quite a range of options and I'm certainly not saying there should be no organized options at all.

You're right, we don't live in pre-industrial times which makes your statement "Look at how things were before we had an educational system and look at countries where the educational system is not effective." somewhat meaningless. Universities have existed for a long time (Oxford, founded somewhere around the end of the first millenium) for trades, guilds and vocational training were the norm. It's an untestable assertion that things would not have progressed as well or better than they have in a post-industrial world without a top-heavy compulsory educational system. Certainly my own experience is that the state schools system server high academic achievers and low academic achievers equally poorly and the skills I learned which I use in my current occupation were learned alongside my university teaching (and where the two coincided, the self-taught far surpassed the taught).

[Rassah]

Regardless of the quality of your public school education, the one thing they do teach is how to study and learn; skills you later use if you decide to go to a university.
My personal opinion on public schools is biased, because the one I went to used to be one of the top 10 in the country (don't know what it is now). But regardless, the one thing that still keeps me conflicted between free-market anarcho-capitalism and centralized public schooling is fairness from lack of choice. Specifically, while adults can make their own choices (go to university or not) and live with the consequences thereof (be wealthy or poor), children are at the mercy of their parents, and have no say in what education they are able to get. In a system without public schooling, some kids (especially those from poorer, or more lunatic families) will not get any education. And sure, eventually those areas will become too dumb and unproductive, and the free market will punish them severely, but looking at history (and places like Alabama and Mississippi), the lessons learned from that punishment will not be "hey, we need education," but rather "I hate those elitists who think they know everything, and we should go kill them." More importantly, regarding children and lack of choice in education, I think that everyone should at least start on equal footing (or a reasonably similar footing) when they reach a point at which they are capable of making decisions as to whether to f*ck up their lives or not.

[stevegee58]

Also, should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?

[Rassah]

Also, should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?

Sounds as easy as stopping BTC. Any suggestions as to how?

[Richy_T]

Also, should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?

Surely we should be calling it the African-American market?

[BlackHeartFund]

Also, should we be trying harder to stop the BTC black market?

lmfao

What a crazy, off-topic subject to bring up in this thread!

[dank]

Regardless of the quality of your public school education, the one thing they do teach is how to study and learn; skills you later use if you decide to go to a university.
My personal opinion on public schools is biased, because the one I went to used to be one of the top 10 in the country (don't know what it is now). But regardless, the one thing that still keeps me conflicted between free-market anarcho-capitalism and centralized public schooling is fairness from lack of choice. Specifically, while adults can make their own choices (go to university or not) and live with the consequences thereof (be wealthy or poor), children are at the mercy of their parents, and have no say in what education they are able to get. In a system without public schooling, some kids (especially those from poorer, or more lunatic families) will not get any education. And sure, eventually those areas will become too dumb and unproductive, and the free market will punish them severely, but looking at history (and places like Alabama and Mississippi), the lessons learned from that punishment will not be "hey, we need education," but rather "I hate those elitists who think they know everything, and we should go kill them." More importantly, regarding children and lack of choice in education, I think that everyone should at least start on equal footing (or a reasonably similar footing) when they reach a point at which they are capable of making decisions as to whether to f*ck up their lives or not.

Except, they don't teach you how to think.  They don't teach you to ask why, they teach you to regurgitate information.  They don't teach you freedom of choice, no, and they don't teach you how to be happy.  That's all that really matters in life, right?  Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum.

[Richy_T]

Regardless of the quality of your public school education, the one thing they do teach is how to study and learn; skills you later use if you decide to go to a university.
My personal opinion on public schools is biased, because the one I went to used to be one of the top 10 in the country (don't know what it is now). But regardless, the one thing that still keeps me conflicted between free-market anarcho-capitalism and centralized public schooling is fairness from lack of choice. Specifically, while adults can make their own choices (go to university or not) and live with the consequences thereof (be wealthy or poor), children are at the mercy of their parents, and have no say in what education they are able to get. In a system without public schooling, some kids (especially those from poorer, or more lunatic families) will not get any education. And sure, eventually those areas will become too dumb and unproductive, and the free market will punish them severely, but looking at history (and places like Alabama and Mississippi), the lessons learned from that punishment will not be "hey, we need education," but rather "I hate those elitists who think they know everything, and we should go kill them." More importantly, regarding children and lack of choice in education, I think that everyone should at least start on equal footing (or a reasonably similar footing) when they reach a point at which they are capable of making decisions as to whether to f*ck up their lives or not.

Maybe so. But there's been a bit of thread drift in this derailment. Looking back at the original point, it was that no/low taxes would mean no one would get educated and there would be no computers. It's a far cry from being against a centrally controlled compulsorily funded behemoth of an education system to not believing that opportunities should exist for those who would otherwise achieve if not held back by circumstances.

[Richy_T]

Except, they don't teach you how to think.  They don't teach you to ask why, they teach you to regurgitate information.  They don't teach you freedom of choice, no, and they don't teach you how to be happy.  That's all that really matters in life, right?  Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum.

+1. Schools are there to produce compliant little worker drones.

[Rassah]

Except, they don't teach you how to think.  They don't teach you to ask why, they teach you to regurgitate information.  They don't teach you freedom of choice, no, and they don't teach you how to be happy.  That's all that really matters in life, right?  Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum.

Again, maybe I'm biased because my school was good, or because my parents were good, or because I just have a different level of curiosity, but thinking is exactly what we were taught to do. Yes, we had to read and memorize a lot, but it was all in order for us to answer questions that both the teachers and the students thought to be important. In my experience, I was taught why things happen, what kinds of choices are available for those things, what kinds of choices others have made, and what were the consequences of those choices. This applied to sciences, history, literature, and even computer programming. Learning this gave me a base upon which to make my own more educated choices, even if part of that education involved learning how to regurgitate information about those choices and their various outcomes.
In the end, after going to a good (well funded) public school, then a public community college, and then two public universities, I have come out of it with a very good understanding of social structures, politics, business, and economics, all of which have put me strongly into the libertarian/ anarcho-capitalist group. So, I myself am proof that public education =/= socialist indoctrination. If you want to argue that, you'll have to at least try to explain to me why your theory doesn't apply to me.
(P.S. my first four years of public education was in USSR, which had way more propaganda than schools in Americas)

[BlackHeartFund]

Again, maybe I'm biased because my school was good, or because my parents were good, or because I just have a different level of curiosity, but thinking is exactly what we were taught to do.

My feelings exactly. The idea that western colleges are propaganda factories is totally off base. Very few places in society encourage such individualism and freedom of thought... certainly not the corporate structure. Certainly not any religious institution. Those are the systems controlling us with propaganda and dogma, not institutions of higher education. Education, self awareness, understanding of history and economics, these are things that liberate populations. Most of the world votes against their own financial interests happily because they don't know any better.

(P.S. my first four years of public education was in USSR, which had way more propaganda than schools in Americas)

hehe well that is not saying a whole lot.

[C10H15N]

What black market?  All I see are individuals freely trading goods and services without interference.   

[TheButterZone]

Private schools and homeschooling don't exist... /waveshand

Home schooling? lol yes let's have high school dropouts teaching kids that Jesus controls the climate and economy, what could go wrong? We don't need young people to learn peer-reviewed science, we need them to learn whatever random bullshit their parents believe. Fuck math.

Private schools kick ass! Look at all the world's great education systems that work without public education... oh right, there are none. New Orleans is doing great spending 5X more per student to have them get 1/3 the education! Yay to making profit at the expense of the education of the next generation of children!!! We'll just count on China and India to train enough engineers and scientists... I guess us western societies should take after Louisiana and start producing... preachers and beggars I guess? Great plan. Maybe the Tim Tebow Corporation will hire all these kids with bullshit private HS degrees... but I doubt it. 

Move to Somalia if you want absolutely no organized society. Also stop reading Ayn Rand, that is not serious.

Since you've set up all those statist straw men that bear no resemblance to reality, imagine them burnt down, and all your BTC eliminated, while you're at it. Orwell loves you!

How old are you? At some point you will realize that we all live in a society who's structures can only change slightly in our lifetimes. I know kids think that the global anarchist revolution in three weeks away, but it isn't. For the rest of our lives we will be living under the government structures we created, and the best we can do is liberalize them as much as possible, take as much power away from the centralized elite as possible. BTC is a great tool to democratize finance, but if you think you are ever going to be totally free from the kinds of limits out systems put on us, you are living in a dream land. Find a desert island perhaps, or move to Somalia.

Dreamers are great, we need ya, but keep learning. Once you get further in (public) university you will read more than just 1984 and a third of Atlas Shrugged, and hopefully at some point you'll realize that the world is a lot more complex, and solutions are not as simple as you think.

Thankfully there are reasonable adults who are and will continue to advance BTC within our current legal and political systems.

You sure love to ASSume a fuck-ton from pithy replies and go TL;DR...

What black market?  All I see are individuals freely trading goods and services without interference.   

This. /endthread /unwatchthread

[BlackHeartFund]

/unwatchthread

For the sake of everyone reading this thread, I hope this poster keeps his word.

[Grix]

The truth is that bitcoin would never have been as popular as it is today if the black market, specifically silk road, didn't kickstart it's awareness. I actually believe it still is the main recruiting factor.

[Roger_Murdock]

I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.

[BlackHeartFund]

I think the question is "should we be trying harder to promote the BTC black market?" And I think the answer to that question is obviously yes. If you're a Bitcoiner and you're STILL buying your weed with fiat cash, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's socially irresponsible and it sends the wrong message to our children. Let's be the change we want to see in the world and set a better example for our young people.

Buy weed illegally from strangers online instead of locally owned and operated, health inspected, non-profit medicinal discrepancies? Doesn't make much sense to me. I do agree that dispensaries should accept BTC, but all in good time. On SR you have no idea if you are buying from violent gangs, war lords, etc.