Bitcoin XT Post Mortem - Group Discussion

[brg444]

To the people in this thread suggesting that XT is an attack (or bad in some other way): is this because you think that we should only have one implementation of the protocol (Core), or do you support multiple implementations (just not XT)?

If Bitcoin XT would wreck their BIP101 project everyone would be fine with it. Sure, if someone wants to run blacklists and what not on their nodes who are we to stop them  

But right now they're trying to fork the protocol, that's a big no-no  

What are you going to do when another implementation will try to fork the protocol with 50% subsidy instead of 75%? Or no subsidy at all, Just an aggressive fork by the big players that needs big blocks?

Me think it is just a question of time for it to happen. I hope your ass is ready.
It will be a good show for sure.

You mean create an altcoin?

You do realize you little XT coup didn't succeed in garnering anything more than 10% nodes support? (if that)

Yeah good luck with that  The big players (no I'm not talking about the vulture capitalists and banking parasites) are perfectly fine with Bitcoin as it stands 

Call it an altcoin as much as you like. But what are you going to do when the major economic players will call their altcoin "bitcoin" to their mainstream customers?

Can't wait for your answer.

"Here's FIATcoin, it's just like cash but we can trace it anywhere and seize it at our convenience. In exchange for whatever economic freedom you had left we'll give you.....ermm free transactions?"

Mainstream consumer: "bu...bbbbut..but we had that already  "

[brg444]

To the people in this thread suggesting that XT is an attack (or bad in some other way): is this because you think that we should only have one implementation of the protocol (Core), or do you support multiple implementations (just not XT)?

If Bitcoin XT would wreck their BIP101 project everyone would be fine with it. Sure, if someone wants to run blacklists and what not on their nodes who are we to stop them  

But right now they're trying to fork the protocol, that's a big no-no  

What are you going to do when another implementation will try to fork the protocol with 50% subsidy instead of 75%? Or no subsidy at all, Just an aggressive fork by the big players that needs big blocks?

Me think it is just a question of time for it to happen. I hope your ass is ready.
It will be a good show for sure.

You mean create an altcoin?

You do realize you little XT coup didn't succeed in garnering anything more than 10% nodes support? (if that)

Yeah good luck with that   The big players (no I'm not talking about the vulture capitalists and banking parasites) are perfectly fine with Bitcoin as it stands  

Call it an altcoin as much as you like. But what are you going to do when the major economic players will call their altcoin "bitcoin" to their mainstream customers?

Can't wait for your answer.

 

Mainstream customers don't give a fuck about Bitcoin already   You think that's gonna change because a couple of banks get together and start promoting it?

"Here's FIATcoin, it's just like cash but we can trace it anywhere and seize it at our convenience. In exchange for whatever economic freedom you had left we'll give you.....ermm free transactions?"

You know this thing exists already right? It's called Ripple. It hasn't fared so well

Goddamn you're a genius aren't ya  

TIL brg444 thinks bitcoin will be a world reserve currency that the mainstream won’t care and the vulture capitalists and banking parasites will stay away. Somehow he manage to think bitcoin will go to the moon.

lol k.

Mainstream don't care about gold yet it's a trillion dollar asset. Explain that you smartass.

Don't get me wrong, you and your consumers buddies will use bitcoins, just not the Bitcoin blockchain. Since you don't care about decentralization and censorship-resistance it won't matter anyway.

Lookahere, the banks are already setting up fancy little Bitcoin banks for you : www.circle.com ; www.coinbase.com.

[knight22]

To the people in this thread suggesting that XT is an attack (or bad in some other way): is this because you think that we should only have one implementation of the protocol (Core), or do you support multiple implementations (just not XT)?

If Bitcoin XT would wreck their BIP101 project everyone would be fine with it. Sure, if someone wants to run blacklists and what not on their nodes who are we to stop them  

But right now they're trying to fork the protocol, that's a big no-no  

What are you going to do when another implementation will try to fork the protocol with 50% subsidy instead of 75%? Or no subsidy at all, Just an aggressive fork by the big players that needs big blocks?

Me think it is just a question of time for it to happen. I hope your ass is ready.
It will be a good show for sure.

You mean create an altcoin?

You do realize you little XT coup didn't succeed in garnering anything more than 10% nodes support? (if that)

Yeah good luck with that   The big players (no I'm not talking about the vulture capitalists and banking parasites) are perfectly fine with Bitcoin as it stands  

Call it an altcoin as much as you like. But what are you going to do when the major economic players will call their altcoin "bitcoin" to their mainstream customers?

Can't wait for your answer.

 

Mainstream customers don't give a fuck about Bitcoin already   You think that's gonna change because a couple of banks get together and start promoting it?

"Here's FIATcoin, it's just like cash but we can trace it anywhere and seize it at our convenience. In exchange for whatever economic freedom you had left we'll give you.....ermm free transactions?"

You know this thing exists already right? It's called Ripple. It hasn't fared so well

Goddamn you're a genius aren't ya  

TIL brg444 thinks bitcoin will be a world reserve currency that the mainstream won’t care and the vulture capitalists and banking parasites will stay away. Somehow he manage to think bitcoin will go to the moon.

lol k.

Mainstream don't care about gold yet it's a trillion dollar asset. Explain that you smartass.

Don't get me wrong, you and your consumers buddies will use bitcoins, just not its blockchain. Since you don't care about decentralization and censorship-resistance the banks are already setting things up for you and will welcome you with open arms.

See here : www.circle.com ; www.coinbase.com.

Gold is a trillion dollar asset because banking parasites hedge their worthless fiat with it.

You know very well that I do care about decentralization and censorship-resistance of bitcoin but I also do believe the free market will keep it that way even with big blocks.

Small blocks and off chain solution is the best way to allow your banking parasites to use bitcoin off-chain with all the censorship you dislike while making the usage of the decentralized blockchain so expensive that you and me will not be able to use it. At that point, will you run a cheap node for them so they can settle their off-chain interbank transactions?

[brg444]

To the people in this thread suggesting that XT is an attack (or bad in some other way): is this because you think that we should only have one implementation of the protocol (Core), or do you support multiple implementations (just not XT)?

If Bitcoin XT would wreck their BIP101 project everyone would be fine with it. Sure, if someone wants to run blacklists and what not on their nodes who are we to stop them  

But right now they're trying to fork the protocol, that's a big no-no  

What are you going to do when another implementation will try to fork the protocol with 50% subsidy instead of 75%? Or no subsidy at all, Just an aggressive fork by the big players that needs big blocks?

Me think it is just a question of time for it to happen. I hope your ass is ready.
It will be a good show for sure.

You mean create an altcoin?

You do realize you little XT coup didn't succeed in garnering anything more than 10% nodes support? (if that)

Yeah good luck with that   The big players (no I'm not talking about the vulture capitalists and banking parasites) are perfectly fine with Bitcoin as it stands  

Call it an altcoin as much as you like. But what are you going to do when the major economic players will call their altcoin "bitcoin" to their mainstream customers?

Can't wait for your answer.

 

Mainstream customers don't give a fuck about Bitcoin already   You think that's gonna change because a couple of banks get together and start promoting it?

"Here's FIATcoin, it's just like cash but we can trace it anywhere and seize it at our convenience. In exchange for whatever economic freedom you had left we'll give you.....ermm free transactions?"

You know this thing exists already right? It's called Ripple. It hasn't fared so well

Goddamn you're a genius aren't ya  

TIL brg444 thinks bitcoin will be a world reserve currency that the mainstream won’t care and the vulture capitalists and banking parasites will stay away. Somehow he manage to think bitcoin will go to the moon.

lol k.

Mainstream don't care about gold yet it's a trillion dollar asset. Explain that you smartass.

Don't get me wrong, you and your consumers buddies will use bitcoins, just not its blockchain. Since you don't care about decentralization and censorship-resistance the banks are already setting things up for you and will welcome you with open arms.

See here : www.circle.com ; www.coinbase.com.

Gold is a trillion dollar asset because banking parasites hedge their worthless fiat with it.

You know very well that I do care about decentralization and censorship-resistance of bitcoin but I also do believe the free market will keep it that way even with big blocks.

Small blocks and off chain solution is the best way to allow your banking parasites to use bitcoin off-chain with all the censorship you dislike while making the usage of the decentralized blockchain so expensive that you and me will not be able to use it. At that point, will you run a cheap node for them so they can settle their off-chain interbank transactions?

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

[knight22]

To the people in this thread suggesting that XT is an attack (or bad in some other way): is this because you think that we should only have one implementation of the protocol (Core), or do you support multiple implementations (just not XT)?

If Bitcoin XT would wreck their BIP101 project everyone would be fine with it. Sure, if someone wants to run blacklists and what not on their nodes who are we to stop them  

But right now they're trying to fork the protocol, that's a big no-no  

What are you going to do when another implementation will try to fork the protocol with 50% subsidy instead of 75%? Or no subsidy at all, Just an aggressive fork by the big players that needs big blocks?

Me think it is just a question of time for it to happen. I hope your ass is ready.
It will be a good show for sure.

You mean create an altcoin?

You do realize you little XT coup didn't succeed in garnering anything more than 10% nodes support? (if that)

Yeah good luck with that   The big players (no I'm not talking about the vulture capitalists and banking parasites) are perfectly fine with Bitcoin as it stands  

Call it an altcoin as much as you like. But what are you going to do when the major economic players will call their altcoin "bitcoin" to their mainstream customers?

Can't wait for your answer.

 

Mainstream customers don't give a fuck about Bitcoin already   You think that's gonna change because a couple of banks get together and start promoting it?

"Here's FIATcoin, it's just like cash but we can trace it anywhere and seize it at our convenience. In exchange for whatever economic freedom you had left we'll give you.....ermm free transactions?"

You know this thing exists already right? It's called Ripple. It hasn't fared so well

Goddamn you're a genius aren't ya  

TIL brg444 thinks bitcoin will be a world reserve currency that the mainstream won’t care and the vulture capitalists and banking parasites will stay away. Somehow he manage to think bitcoin will go to the moon.

lol k.

Mainstream don't care about gold yet it's a trillion dollar asset. Explain that you smartass.

Don't get me wrong, you and your consumers buddies will use bitcoins, just not its blockchain. Since you don't care about decentralization and censorship-resistance the banks are already setting things up for you and will welcome you with open arms.

See here : www.circle.com ; www.coinbase.com.

Gold is a trillion dollar asset because banking parasites hedge their worthless fiat with it.

You know very well that I do care about decentralization and censorship-resistance of bitcoin but I also do believe the free market will keep it that way even with big blocks.

Small blocks and off chain solution is the best way to allow your banking parasites to use bitcoin off-chain with all the censorship you dislike while making the usage of the decentralized blockchain so expensive that you and me will not be able to use it. At that point, will you run a cheap node for them so they can settle their off-chain interbank transactions?

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

The amount if inconsistencies and contradictions that come out of your mouth is astonishing. Do you really think we should take you seriously?  You even go as far as relying on vaporware systems that still need bigger blocks to operate.

[brg444]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

[knight22]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

You are completely confusing everything and you looks mad lol. Not very surprising after all your inconsistencies but yes, the free market works when it comes to find solutions to problems and monetize on it. Just like the technical problems associated with bigger blocks simply because the incentives are well aligned.  

[brg444]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

You are completely confusing everything and you looks mad lol. Not very surprising after all your inconsistencies but yes, the free market works when it comes to find solutions to problems and monetize on it. Just like the technical problems associated with bigger blocks simply because the incentives are well aligned.  

No, I'm making points you cannot answer because you know you are wrong. The analogies I'm making are quite relevant in fact, maybe you just can't grasp them?

The thing that's broken with your logic is that the incentives are NOT aligned except under very specific circumstances. Miners are incentivized for profits, no matter the weight they put on the network. Their incentives are certainly not aligned with the network peers (nodes).

[knight22]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

You are completely confusing everything and you looks mad lol. Not very surprising after all your inconsistencies but yes, the free market works when it comes to find solutions to problems and monetize on it. Just like the technical problems associated with bigger blocks simply because the incentives are well aligned.  

No, I'm making points you cannot answer because you know you are wrong. The analogies I'm making are quite relevant in fact, maybe you just can't grasp them?

The thing that's broken with your logic is that the incentives are NOT aligned except under very specific circumstances. Miners are incentivized for profits, no matter the weight they put on the network. Their incentives are certainly not aligned with the network peers (nodes).

You only made the assumption that I assume the free market works without well aligned incentives and/or strictly enforced rules which I didn't.  

It's not because nodes aren't being paid that there is no incentives to run them, otherwise there would be none ATM. There are incentives for people financially involved to run nodes to keep bitcoin secure and decentralized therefore there are incentives for the market to come up with cheap solutions to run them (as they give no monetary reward).
There are NO incentives for miners to centralized up a certain point (as pointed in the whitepaper and as demonstrated with the Ghash episode) because it would mean bitcoin would lose all of the  trust it gained and trust is fundamental for a currency to have value.

[brg444]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

You are completely confusing everything and you looks mad lol. Not very surprising after all your inconsistencies but yes, the free market works when it comes to find solutions to problems and monetize on it. Just like the technical problems associated with bigger blocks simply because the incentives are well aligned.  

No, I'm making points you cannot answer because you know you are wrong. The analogies I'm making are quite relevant in fact, maybe you just can't grasp them?

The thing that's broken with your logic is that the incentives are NOT aligned except under very specific circumstances. Miners are incentivized for profits, no matter the weight they put on the network. Their incentives are certainly not aligned with the network peers (nodes).

You only made the assumption that I assume the free market works without well aligned incentives and/or strictly enforced rules which I didn't.  

It's not because nodes aren't being paid that there is no incentives to run them, otherwise there would be none ATM. There are incentives for people financially involved to run nodes to keep bitcoin secure and decentralized therefore there are incentives for the market to come up with cheap solutions to run them (as they give no monetary reward).
There are NO incentives for miners to centralized up a certain point (as pointed in the whitepaper and as demonstrated with the Ghash episode) because it would mean bitcoin would lose all of the  trust it gained and trust is fundamental for a currency to have value.

Right... 

I forgot that one, the magic free market at it again turning data center resources into "cheap solutions"...

[knight22]

Oh yes sure, the magic of the free market!

Let's not stop anyone from cutting down the whole Amazon trees for pastures or w/e, the free-market will take care of it!

No need for big game hunting regulations to protect endangered wildlife either! FREE MARKET!

Environmental regulation? Pollution!? Who told you you could mess with my free market!? It's got this under control  

Thanks to the banking and petroleum lobbies and their petrodollar. Do you really think cartels = free market?

K.

This only highlights your poor understanding of how things actually work in this low world. Are you 12?

Way to pick and choose the examples at your convenience. Wtf are you trying to say? That without the banking and petroleum lobbies there wouldn't be pollution?

What about the poor wildlife? Who's to blame for their continuing risk of extinction? I thought you said the free market would make sure to preserve them?

Do you not care about the rainforest? Myself I'm afraid if "free market" had its ways there wouldn't be much left of it.

Look I know you like to pretend yourself some kind of fancy libertardians or capitalist or whatever, I do share similar views   But if that is going to make you ignore human greed and the inherent drive for profit of these systems that you are one naive little shill.

Seriously   Do you even believe the stuff that you write?

BTW if you weren't stupid enough to have sold your bitcoins you likely would've had enough to use it forever. Don't miss the chance to buy back cause then you might indeed be priced out  

Either way when LN, voting pools and other transactional layers will be up and running I won't think twice about using them. Do you realize how fucking inefficient and clumsy this Bitcoin blockchain is? Such a pity we're stuck with this   (yes I do mean stuck as in: no, you don't get to change it "to make it more like VISA")

TIL brg444 thinks that a decentralized and censorship-resistant system can work while pretending the free market doesn't and censoring information surrounding such system is a good thing.

TIL knight22 watched a couple of Mike Baloney's youtube video and likes to pretend himself a free-market shill while ignoring the costs and risks that come with an ubiquitous free market rule.

Tell me little libertard why then did Satoshi not leave the total coin supply to "the free market". How dare he imposes centrally designed rules!? What about the block time interval? He must be outright stupid right? Why waste so much time figuring this thing out when he could've let it be decided by our god, the free-market?

You are completely confusing everything and you looks mad lol. Not very surprising after all your inconsistencies but yes, the free market works when it comes to find solutions to problems and monetize on it. Just like the technical problems associated with bigger blocks simply because the incentives are well aligned.  

No, I'm making points you cannot answer because you know you are wrong. The analogies I'm making are quite relevant in fact, maybe you just can't grasp them?

The thing that's broken with your logic is that the incentives are NOT aligned except under very specific circumstances. Miners are incentivized for profits, no matter the weight they put on the network. Their incentives are certainly not aligned with the network peers (nodes).

You only made the assumption that I assume the free market works without well aligned incentives and/or strictly enforced rules which I didn't.  

It's not because nodes aren't being paid that there is no incentives to run them, otherwise there would be none ATM. There are incentives for people financially involved to run nodes to keep bitcoin secure and decentralized therefore there are incentives for the market to come up with cheap solutions to run them (as they give no monetary reward).
There are NO incentives for miners to centralized up a certain point (as pointed in the whitepaper and as demonstrated with the Ghash episode) because it would mean bitcoin would lose all of the  trust it gained and trust is fundamental for a currency to have value.

Right...  

I forgot that one, the magic free market at it again turning data center resources into "cheap solutions"...

https://bitseed.org/  

Give it a chance, the crowd knows best. It's not magic, it's the collective knowledge and creativity of market participants.

[ournem]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

[muyuu]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

It will engageenrage noobs who don't understand the problems at hand through populist politics and fabricated crises.

[knight22]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

It will engageenrage noobs who don't understand the problems at hand through populist politics and fabricated crises.

It will engageenrage noobs autistic geeks who don't understand the market problems at hand through populist dictatorship politics and fabricated crises problems.

FTFY

[muyuu]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

It will engageenrage noobs who don't understand the problems at hand through populist politics and fabricated crises.

It will engageenrage noobs autistic geeks who don't understand the market problems at hand through populist dictatorship politics and fabricated crises problems.

FTFY

Correct, XTards are clueless about both the technical limitations and the market.

Thankfully things are progressing in the right direction lately.

[knight22]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

It will engageenrage noobs who don't understand the problems at hand through populist politics and fabricated crises.

It will engageenrage noobs autistic geeks who don't understand the market problems at hand through populist dictatorship politics and fabricated crises problems.

FTFY

Correct, XTards are clueless about both the technical limitations and the market.

Thankfully things are progressing in the right direction lately.

I am wondering if taking what miners think into consideration about what the market needs is not something ever more retarded and autistic...

Thanks to you and all the autistic geeks, bitcoin will soon be added to that list: http://saleshq.monster.com/news/articles/2655-the-20-worst-product-failures

[figmentofmyass]

I am wondering if taking what miners think into consideration about what the market needs is not something ever more retarded and autistic...

Thanks to you and all the autistic geeks, bitcoin will soon be added to that list: http://saleshq.monster.com/news/articles/2655-the-20-worst-product-failures

don't fret, my friend. no need to refer to "thinking people" as "autists" and if you think bitcoin will fail -- don't let the door hit you on the way out. plenty of alt coins out there. go out and have a look.

[knight22]

I am wondering if taking what miners think into consideration about what the market needs is not something ever more retarded and autistic...

Thanks to you and all the autistic geeks, bitcoin will soon be added to that list: http://saleshq.monster.com/news/articles/2655-the-20-worst-product-failures

don't fret, my friend. no need to refer to "thinking people" as "autists" and if you think bitcoin will fail -- don't let the door hit you on the way out. plenty of alt coins out there. go out and have a look.

A better option is to fork bitcoin and leave the "coin that doesn't scale" right in the dust and and then add it to the list. No need for an alt.

[figmentofmyass]

I am wondering if taking what miners think into consideration about what the market needs is not something ever more retarded and autistic...

Thanks to you and all the autistic geeks, bitcoin will soon be added to that list: http://saleshq.monster.com/news/articles/2655-the-20-worst-product-failures

don't fret, my friend. no need to refer to "thinking people" as "autists" and if you think bitcoin will fail -- don't let the door hit you on the way out. plenty of alt coins out there. go out and have a look.

A better option is to fork bitcoin and leave the "coin that doesn't scale" right in the dust and be added to the list. No need for an alt.

i have no problem with forking bitcoin. most altcoins are bitcoin forks. i don't mind.

but i don't agree with your approach. the one that should be left in the dust is the one that can't achieve consensus.

[brg444]

I think it that while it won't get adapted, it did help to bring awareness to the issues at hand, so in that way it was a success.  This was a conversation that needed to be had and it is nice that the community is now planning for the future.

It will engageenrage noobs who don't understand the problems at hand through populist politics and fabricated crises.

It will engageenrage noobs autistic geeks who don't understand the market problems at hand through populist dictatorship politics and fabricated crises problems.

FTFY

Correct, XTards are clueless about both the technical limitations and the market.

Thankfully things are progressing in the right direction lately.

I am wondering if taking what miners think into consideration about what the market needs is not something ever more retarded and autistic...

Thanks to you and all the autistic geeks, bitcoin will soon be added to that list: http://saleshq.monster.com/news/articles/2655-the-20-worst-product-failures

 

Bitcoin is not a product you doofus. It doesn't need your "marketing" or any of your stupid and parasitic "corporate sponsorship".