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Question:  Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust?
Yes
No
Most people know the results of investing in ponzi so won't make a difference
Useless thread, should be allowed

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Author Topic: Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust?  (Read 14400 times)
Patejl
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September 18, 2015, 09:37:58 AM
 #1

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?



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September 18, 2015, 09:51:55 AM
 #2

Voted yes, down with the ponzis.

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September 18, 2015, 09:53:25 AM
 #3

Topic title and question title are asking two different things...

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 18, 2015, 09:54:55 AM
 #4

Topic title and question title are asking two different things...
How so? I think they are essentially the same thing, correct me if I am wrong



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September 18, 2015, 09:59:08 AM
 #5

Topic title and question title are asking two different things...
How so? I think they are essentially the same thing, correct me if I am wrong

Let's say I am very anti-ponzi.

Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust?  YES
Should ponzis be allowed to be advertised in signatures?  NO

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 18, 2015, 10:01:06 AM
 #6

Topic title and question title are asking two different things...
How so? I think they are essentially the same thing, correct me if I am wrong

Let's say I am very anti-ponzi.

Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust?  YES
Should ponzis be allowed to be advertised in signatures?  NO
Realized my mistake, edited the poll accordingly.



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September 18, 2015, 10:09:01 AM
 #7

It's a quite hard question, and in my opinion in this case we can count on the Criminal Code. In my country there is no criminal responsibility for information distribution of some pyramid investment scheme or other financials bubbles. So I think people who promote ponzis in their signature can also be cheated so they should't be given a negative trust.

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September 18, 2015, 10:15:02 AM
 #8

It's a quite hard question, and in my opinion in this case we can count on the Criminal Code. In my country there is no criminal responsibility for information distribution of some pyramid investment scheme or other financials bubbles. So I think people who promote ponzis in their signature can also be cheated so they should't be given a negative trust.
Well it doesnt work the same way in bitcointalk. Negative trust "definition" is : You believe the person is a scammer or you highly believe he is going to scam. But you are free to have your opinion

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September 18, 2015, 10:20:53 AM
 #9

What is the definition of a ponzi in this case?
Do cloudmining sites count? What about some shady gambling sites? Or are we just talking about the obvious 'Double your coins in a day' ponzis?
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September 18, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
 #10

What is the definition of a ponzi in this case?
Do cloudmining sites count? What about some shady gambling sites? Or are we just talking about the obvious 'Double your coins in a day' ponzis?
Official definition is: A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator, an individual or organization, pays returns to its investors from new capital paid to the operators by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the operator. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent.
So I think cloudmining without any proof of their mining equipment should be included in the same category as ponzis, gambling sites don't count as "shady" is the farthest you can go, but ponzis you can be sure they'll end up as scam.



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September 18, 2015, 11:13:29 AM
 #11

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?

Thanks for the thread.


It's a quite hard question, and in my opinion in this case we can count on the Criminal Code. In my country there is no criminal responsibility for information distribution of some pyramid investment scheme or other financials bubbles. So I think people who promote ponzis in their signature can also be cheated so they should't be given a negative trust.

AFAIK (not the actual law of your country obviously) this ruling only applies if someone does not know they are promoting a ponzi. If you have a ref code for a ponzi scheme in your signature you know its a ponzi. You are fully aware that you need to lure people into the scheme for you to benefit from their loss. I am not talking about cloud mining services that might turn out to be ponzis.

What is the definition of a ponzi in this case?
Do cloudmining sites count? What about some shady gambling sites? Or are we just talking about the obvious 'Double your coins in a day' ponzis?

IMHO this is the important question to ask. After giving it some though[1] I would certainly draw the line where someone guarantees a return that can not be reasonably done without ripping someone off or promisses high free bonuses. A clear example would be this signature[2]:

Quote

It should be obvious that these are ponzi schemes and that they not be sustainable, on the other hand it should also be obvious that you should not give a loan without collateral to a newbie.

[1] I asked Patejl to make this thread so I had an hour or so to think about it.
[2] URL and names changed.
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September 18, 2015, 11:19:59 AM
 #12

Definitely yes, a lot of them have neg trust by promoting ponzies but its amusing how people defend it with things like: "people know its a ponzi" or "it's an honest ponzi" like please wtf is going, we allow scams because they tell us are scams
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September 18, 2015, 11:30:32 AM
 #13

in this case I think you should notice this person that he advertising scam, and explain him his responsibilities. And only after conversations and explanation you could give him a negative trust.

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September 18, 2015, 11:34:22 AM
 #14

When it comes to questions about how to use the trust system, I always try to assume the position of a complete newb.
Does my trust rating effectively warn the newb in a way that prevents him from falling for a scam?

I don't think that a newb will make a direct connection between the trust rating of a member and his signature, so the answer to the question above in this case will most likely be no. If there were a way to somehow flag the signature itself as untrustworthy, I'd totally do that.

On the other hand, if I started to deal out negative trust ratings towards members who display signatures of ponzis, more people would take more care about which signature campaigns they partake in. Which could eventually lead to the point where "bad" signature campaigns will no longer be able to find takers.
I would harm a lot of members by doing that, though.
For me, this seems to be too much damage for too little of an effect.

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September 18, 2015, 11:53:31 AM
 #15

The real reason why Investor-based games board was made was to move all those ponzis into it, wait.. wait.. and then BAN! Grin
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September 18, 2015, 01:53:57 PM
 #16

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957



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September 18, 2015, 02:44:43 PM
 #17

I don't think they really deserve the negative trust. Neutral would be more reasonable. Most people would be quite motivated to put on a signature if the payment is high. If they are promoting ponzi, it would potentially cause more people to become victims. Some ponzis are actually quite hard to see through, anything promising high returns is potentially a ponzi while cloudmining contracts are harder to see through. Unless it is in escrow, most people would be quite reluctant to join though.

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September 18, 2015, 02:48:16 PM
 #18

Actually the signature campaigns should be banned rather than those who promote it. The people who promote it do so as they get paid but why should these companies be set free and allowed to advertise on the forum? When the websites aren't promoted here and they aren't allowed to have a campaign, there will be no need to worry about. The people who promote it aren't scamming anyone and giving them a negative trust doesn't sound logical IMHO. Those people definitely are doing an unethical thing but aren't scammers.

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September 18, 2015, 02:49:34 PM
 #19

Actually the signature campaigns should be banned rather than those who promote it. The people who promote it do so as they get paid but why should these companies be set free and allowed to advertise on the forum? When the websites aren't promoted here and they aren't allowed to have a campaign, there will be no need to worry about. The people who promote it aren't scamming anyone and giving them a negative trust doesn't sound logical IMHO. Those people definitely are doing an unethical thing but aren't scammers.
Although many people who promote it using their signatures are actually the owners of the site.



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September 18, 2015, 03:01:21 PM
 #20

Ponzis are considered as gambling by this community. (Check the Gambling section: and you can see the ponzi section under it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0 )

And you're wearing a gambling signature. Since gambling is illegal in the most of the world, You should get neg trust too by your logic.

You've chance to win money on ponzis (if you get in early.) You've chance to win money on dice sites etc.

So I've voted no. Also; "Caveat Emptor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor


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September 18, 2015, 03:06:23 PM
 #21

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

That's a poor example, some twobit semi-game based on "last one in gets nothing". Kids play them they know the rules, they're harmless (as harmless as any gambling).

The Ponzis that you should be concerned about, if your motivation is to stop highly motivated criminals stealing from our naive young noobs (as opposed to just being a busybody) are shit like the one in my signature, the ones that totally maintain that they are legit, deal in millions and destroy lives.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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September 18, 2015, 03:16:34 PM
 #22

Another example of this:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1173398.0



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September 18, 2015, 03:19:15 PM
 #23

Actually the signature campaigns should be banned rather than those who promote it. The people who promote it do so as they get paid but why should these companies be set free and allowed to advertise on the forum? When the websites aren't promoted here and they aren't allowed to have a campaign, there will be no need to worry about. The people who promote it aren't scamming anyone and giving them a negative trust doesn't sound logical IMHO. Those people definitely are doing an unethical thing but aren't scammers.
Although many people who promote it using their signatures are actually the owners of the site.

The owners of the site should definitely get a negative rating as they are obvious scammers.

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September 18, 2015, 03:20:45 PM
 #24

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?
No.you cant hold members responsible for promoting ponzi or anything which later turned out to be a scam unless there is a solid evidence to prove that the said member was aware that it was a scam
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September 18, 2015, 03:22:43 PM
 #25

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?
No.you cant hold members responsible for promoting ponzi or anything which later turned out to be a scam unless there is a solid evidence to prove that the said member was aware that it was a scam
The ponzi do come out as scam, or you think ponzis are going to pay the "doubling costs" from their own pocket, and members are fully aware that ponzis do end up as scam.



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September 18, 2015, 03:23:32 PM
 #26

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

Winspiral isn't a scammer nor his website is a scam website. I know him since he was a member on another forum and he asks to invest cents (not even dollars). We shouldn't assume ALL investment websites as scam websites.

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September 18, 2015, 03:27:53 PM
 #27

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

Winspiral isn't a scammer nor his website is a scam website. I know him since he was a member on another forum and he asks to invest cents (not even dollars). We shouldn't assume ALL investment websites as scam websites.
Saw his site and got to know its a revenue sharing site, although the promised return seems a bit fishy, but now he seems to be accepting over 0.001 so not at cents. Have a look at his sig if you wanna know what I'm talking about



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September 18, 2015, 03:29:43 PM
 #28

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?
No.you cant hold members responsible for promoting ponzi or anything which later turned out to be a scam unless there is a solid evidence to prove that the said member was aware that it was a scam

Yes I can.
If I think that someone is deliberately turning a blind eye to compelling circumstantial evidence that the business that they endorse by carrying a signature is a scam, simply so that they can collect money from it, then I will consider giving them negative trust on the basis that anyone that prizes money over ethics is a potential scammer.

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September 18, 2015, 03:42:30 PM
 #29

Ponzis are considered as gambling by this community. (Check the Gambling section: and you can see the ponzi section under it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0 )

And you're wearing a gambling signature. Since gambling is illegal in the most of the world, You should get neg trust too by your logic.

You've chance to win money on ponzis (if you get in early.) You've chance to win money on dice sites etc.

So I've voted no. Also; "Caveat Emptor" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caveat_emptor

Gambling is not illegal in most of the world tho and the investor based section is there tu gather all ponzi scams in one place, it wasnt made to help ponzi promoters but rather to gather all scams in one place, people that participate in them, almost everyone, knows what a ponzi is and what risks he is assuming.
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September 18, 2015, 03:44:33 PM
 #30

If you are using a paid signature then you are promoting that business. If you are promoting a scam then yes you are part of the problem and deserve the negative trust.
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September 18, 2015, 03:46:34 PM
 #31

Saw his site and got to know its a revenue sharing site, although the promised return seems a bit fishy, but now he seems to be accepting over 0.001 so not at cents. Have a look at his sig if you wanna know what I'm talking about

"You invest minimum 0.001BTC
This system is not a ponzi because you will get back your investment.
If you invest less than 0.001BTC it is a donation."


I used to be a member of his earlier scheme where he had no investment required and he used to offer LOW returns via Liberty Reserve which then shut down and he lost all his shares.

If you look at his claims, they seem fishy but not unimaginable. 0.001 BTC is nothing much and one can definitely give it a try. He has said it's not a PONZI and hence I don't think he deserves a negative trust (although now he has got one Sad). I'm just saying this as he was a trusted member of the other forum.

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September 18, 2015, 03:48:34 PM
 #32

Ponzis are considered as gambling by this community. (Check the Gambling section: and you can see the ponzi section under it: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=56.0 )

No, ponzis got their own section because some people consider it a form of gambling and it was too much to handle for the gambling section.

And you're wearing a gambling signature. Since gambling is illegal in the most of the world, You should get neg trust too by your logic.

Lets not get into the "a ponzi is not provably fair" discussion again, shall we?

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

That's a poor example, some twobit semi-game based on "last one in gets nothing". Kids play them they know the rules, they're harmless (as harmless as any gambling).

Check the wording of the signature. I would not consider "this is a startup, invest pl0x" as harmless and assume that the risks are known. The site does not even explain how the ponzi is supposed to work and they in fact flat out deny to be a ponzi. Oddly "this is not a ponzi" is a typical sign of a ponzi.

The Ponzis that you should be concerned about, if your motivation is to stop highly motivated criminals stealing from our naive young noobs (as opposed to just being a busybody) are shit like the one in my signature, the ones that totally maintain that they are legit, deal in millions and destroy lives.

I wish it would be that easy.

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

Winspiral isn't a scammer nor his website is a scam website. I know him since he was a member on another forum and he asks to invest cents (not even dollars). We shouldn't assume ALL investment websites as scam websites.

Their "proof of payment" is fake. Please explain to me how its not a scam or at least how they work.

-snip-
If you look at his claims, they seem fishy but not unimaginable. 0.001 BTC is nothing much and one can definitely give it a try. He has said it's not a PONZI and hence I don't think he deserves a negative trust (although now he has got one Sad). I'm just saying this as he was a trusted member of the other forum.

Like any scammer is gonna state that they are scamming their users.
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September 18, 2015, 03:50:07 PM
 #33

Ponzis are considered as gambling by this community.

Not by me they're not.
You must draw a distinction between the "last one in loses" games that people knowingly play in the "Investor Games" section, and deliberately misleading schemes run by professional thieves masquerading as legit investment opportunities.

A Ponzi scheme involves deceit aimed at swindling money out of investors. Knowingly promoting one deserves red trust.
A Ponzi game is gambling. Why warn someone off if they are happy with the (lack of) rules?

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September 18, 2015, 04:00:14 PM
 #34


Their "proof of payment" is fake. Please explain to me how its not a scam or at least how they work.


I could only find this: http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Bitcoinwinspiralnet-B-t499992.html

I dint find their proof of payment nor I am an investor of his/her website. I just know him from EMS forum that I was a part of.

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September 18, 2015, 04:11:27 PM
 #35


Their "proof of payment" is fake. Please explain to me how its not a scam or at least how they work.


I could only find this: http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Bitcoinwinspiralnet-B-t499992.html

I dint find their proof of payment nor I am an investor of his/her website. I just know him from EMS forum that I was a part of.

Source: http://bitcoin.winspiral.net/

Code:
Id    Inv date    BTC address                         BTC sent      pending BTC     Next payout    BTC paid
5    150905    1QGgNKBft1T42Po2YUd2vWAcAuC47uBQsN    0.01000000    0.0071207410    0.00089500    0.00200000

TX to/"from" that address on the given date:

https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/d2257878f06daec86f1a90b7520fb4b3fd0fc5cca37f13479bb448d16fa0b40f
https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/4e35d016a9a2315d12b05e130cda6348702fd63bc8915899c7861292e47491ad
https://www.blocktrail.com/BTC/tx/be0f68f82d5d45eec9cc2892a0b8e75f84f081559063567a4e3c2f06e8b97feb

None of the given amounts match any of the inputs or outputs of any of the transactions. The site also does not explain how they work, but only states:

Quote
You invest minimum 0.001BTC
This system is not a ponzi because you will get back your investment.
If you invest less than 0.001BTC it is a donation.

as well as:
Quote
Your investment will be returned in less then 100 days.
Amount of returns are always more then 10000 satoshi(except the last return)

From the forum link as "explanation":

Quote
The principle is simple:
You invest in a start-up.

As usual...nothing is promised because we do not know the future.
Normaly your principal is given back,but we do not know when.

Minimum investment is 0.001 BTC.
Be carefull:if you send less it is a donation.

Send here;
3FpVS2KwmsVCpsz8EHzEEyrrtaDma9Lt4x

Dividends and parts of ptincipal will be returned to your wallet...it is why you have only to send from YOUR WALLET.

Good luck.

I marked the typical ponzi bullshit for your concenience.

The rest is copy pasta from bitcoin.org.

https://istdasliberaloderkanndasweg.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/shut-up-and-take-my-money.jpg

Dont be gullible just because you think you know someone.
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September 18, 2015, 07:08:55 PM
 #36

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

Winspiral isn't a scammer nor his website is a scam website. I know him since he was a member on another forum and he asks to invest cents (not even dollars). We shouldn't assume ALL investment websites as scam websites.

thanks
I have forgotten who you are...perhaps had you an other nickname...

The only bad thing in this story is that an innocent has now negative trust points for a wrong thing.

I keep up saying loudly that my system is not a ponzi,unfortunately i cannot prove it.
In the other hand you cannot prove that it is a ponzi.
You prefer give negative points to an innocent without proof than letting a probably scammer steal people.
Without knowing that the guilty are you...Among you and me...I'm right and you are wrong.
Of course for you negative points for an innocent is not a shame...
You believe that you have done your duty.

I keep up saying that it is not a ponzi and that after 100 days all will be given back with profit.
Have a nice day...
and thanks again "erikalui" for your trust.









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September 18, 2015, 07:33:18 PM
 #37

I hate to derail this thread as neither you personally nor your "start up" are the topic here, you are just an example. I will however take the time and answer to your post. If you want argue this further you should create a topic in the appropriate section.

If anyone wanted an example of someone doing the things I have written in OP that is promoting ponzi in their signature here is an example.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=492957

Winspiral isn't a scammer nor his website is a scam website. I know him since he was a member on another forum and he asks to invest cents (not even dollars). We shouldn't assume ALL investment websites as scam websites.

thanks
I have forgotten who you are...perhaps had you an other nickname...

The only bad thing in this story is that an innocent has now negative trust points for a wrong thing.

I keep up saying loudly that my system is not a ponzi,unfortunately i cannot prove it.

Can you explain it? Can you explain why the information you present on your site do not match the data on the blockchain?

In the other hand you cannot prove that it is a ponzi.
You prefer give negative points to an innocent without proof than letting a probably scammer steal people.

Giving a negative rating in hindsight is the only way to have proof of a scam. Thus it could never prevent a possible scam. Consider it my personal - slightly amplified - opinion based on the above findings. I encourage you to answer to what I found and explain it.

Without knowing that the guilty are you...Among you and me...I'm right and you are wrong.
Of course for you negative points for an innocent is not a shame...
You believe that you have done your duty.

I was put in a positions where my warnings matter more than that of others. I have never asked for it, nor worked towards it. I will still make the best of it. If thats what you consider "my duty", yes.

I keep up saying that it is not a ponzi and that after 100 days all will be given back with profit.

How?

Have a nice day...
and thanks again "erikalui" for your trust.

You too.
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September 18, 2015, 07:39:47 PM
 #38

Please go on my topic if you wand discuss about.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171677.msg12445194#msg12445194

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September 18, 2015, 11:16:42 PM
 #39

I have noticed that although promoting a ponzi in the investor based games may be allowed by default trust members as the promotion is limited to people who fairly understand the risks of investing.
But what about accounts that promote it in their signature and essentially promise a fake return to people who may not understand yet how ponzis work?
I have heard about cloudminig's example where dserrano5 was about to be given negative trust for such behavious but was probably forgiven by most people, but should the other people be allowed to promote it?
No.you cant hold members responsible for promoting ponzi or anything which later turned out to be a scam unless there is a solid evidence to prove that the said member was aware that it was a scam
The ponzi do come out as scam, or you think ponzis are going to pay the "doubling costs" from their own pocket, and members are fully aware that ponzis do end up as scam.
Will neg trust stop others from investing in ponzis?
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September 18, 2015, 11:27:59 PM
 #40

A better question is: should BitcoinTalk be investigated for allowing ponzi schemes and rip-off artists to solicit their scams.  I cannot count the number of times I've been ripped off by scams I found here while at the same time I get censored or moderated when complaining or commenting about my plight.  I find myself constantly having to censor what I am saying just so I don't attract the attention of a moderator who has an invested interest in the scams that take place here.  Now watch this get deleted!
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September 18, 2015, 11:34:39 PM
 #41

A better question is: should BitcoinTalk be investigated for allowing ponzi schemes and rip-off artists to solicit their scams.  I cannot count the number of times I've been ripped off by scams I found here while at the same time I get censored or moderated when complaining or commenting about my plight.  I find myself constantly having to censor what I am saying just so I don't attract the attention of a moderator who has an invested interest in the scams that take place here.  Now watch this get deleted!
Moderators very rarely remove posts as long as they are not spam or referral. You were probably posting in a self-moderated thread, where any posts can be deleted by the OP of the thread.
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September 19, 2015, 12:20:19 AM
 #42

I voted no.

I'm all for distrusting ponzi owners, but not the many many peons that promote them. 

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 19, 2015, 01:04:44 AM
 #43

I voted no as well. There are many desperate people who will advertise anything in their signature for bitcoins, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated for that site. They just want the money; nothing more, nothing less. They could be perfectly trustworthy people.

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September 19, 2015, 04:44:14 AM
 #44

I voted no as well. There are many desperate people who will advertise anything in their signature for bitcoins, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated for that site. They just want the money; nothing more, nothing less. They could be perfectly trustworthy people.

But how you can determine whenever he/she is not involve the ponzi site at all based on your statement " but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated for that site. " ?

..
FANSUNITE

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█ █
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September 19, 2015, 06:55:00 AM
 #45

and what about my negative points for a supposed ponzi link in my signature?
I have so far 2 negative points about my signature
and 1 positive point for ma management about the site linked in my sigature.

i'm negative pointed from 2 people who suppose that I have a ponzi link in my signature.
A,d what can I do?
the 2 people wha have me negatively pointed are now proud as Oscar thinking they have done their duty...
But in reality they have made a mistake.
And now...all my posts are add with negative points for something who is not a ponzi.

Do you believe that wrong accusation will avoid real ponzi pactice?
No in the contrary...
I will be the living example that one cannot trust to the "trust point system"

Each time we will see negative points...we can now say:
trust system is not trustable...we have the poof with winspiral the webmaster who had for over 20 years always been honest.

It is si easy to believe and to give negative points for supposed "things"
I hope that you will not be negative pointed for wrong reason.
i could now run to my negative pointers...and do the same..;But I will not because i will not participe to a trust system who is not fair if we can vote with false arguments.
I can so far look me in a mirror...


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September 19, 2015, 07:37:42 AM
 #46

i'm negative pointed from 2 people who suppose that I have a ponzi link in my signature.
A,d what can I do?

Remove the ponzi link  from your signature?

You are stating it's risk free - I might leave you negative trust for lying like that.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 19, 2015, 08:18:01 AM
Last edit: September 19, 2015, 08:42:33 AM by shorena
 #47

-snip-

Post offtopic reply, wonders why post gets deleted.

I voted no.

I'm all for distrusting ponzi owners, but not the many many peons that promote them.  

I got the following PM this morning. I dont think I have left a negative rating on a peon yet. The ratings should not be left lightly though. Yet, how to detect a peon? Write a PM first?

Listen to me, I'll tell you. You can think what you want and what you want. Conclusions you strange if I advertise Ponzi, it means I'm his manager. I'm working on a referral system. Now I'm going to put minuses. I will punish you! Normal people never in the eyes do nothing in the face and say, well, you put a minus and fled. Run on to not vpoymal !!!! Traitor, like you put to death on the street!
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September 19, 2015, 08:18:42 AM
 #48

i'm negative pointed from 2 people who suppose that I have a ponzi link in my signature.
A,d what can I do?

Remove the ponzi link  from your signature?

You are stating it's risk free - I might leave you negative trust for lying like that.

How can i remove a ponzi link from my signature if no ponzi link is in my signature?

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September 19, 2015, 08:47:20 AM
 #49

i'm negative pointed from 2 people who suppose that I have a ponzi link in my signature.
A,d what can I do?

Remove the ponzi link  from your signature?

You are stating it's risk free - I might leave you negative trust for lying like that.
He said only 2 people suppose that the link is ponzi it is not proved.Why should we remove links on others supposition? there must be a solid proof
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September 19, 2015, 08:51:13 AM
Last edit: September 19, 2015, 09:03:39 AM by tmfp
 #50

I voted no as well. There are many desperate people who will advertise anything in their signature for bitcoins, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated for that site. They just want the money; nothing more, nothing less. They could be perfectly trustworthy people.

If they are that desperate for money that they will promote something which they know is probably a scam just for "..the money, nothing more, nothing less", then there is the likelihood that that desperation will make them likely to scam if given the opportunity to do so, hence they should not be trusted.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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September 19, 2015, 09:34:21 AM
 #51

I voted no as well. There are many desperate people who will advertise anything in their signature for bitcoins, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are affiliated for that site. They just want the money; nothing more, nothing less. They could be perfectly trustworthy people.

So because he is not affiliated with the site is ok to advertise any kind of scam to make money with it??? In my books that means you are a scammer as well, its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent
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September 19, 2015, 10:04:36 AM
 #52

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
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September 19, 2015, 10:15:04 AM
 #53

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

It's depend in what country you are! In Russian law if you are witnesses a crime as rape and didn't help you are guilty.    
Article 125 the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

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September 19, 2015, 10:16:21 AM
 #54

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Sure, but that doesn't mean I should trust them.

Greed is....

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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September 19, 2015, 10:22:34 AM
 #55

When it comes to questions about how to use the trust system, I always try to assume the position of a complete newb.
Does my trust rating effectively warn the newb in a way that prevents him from falling for a scam?

I don't think that a newb will make a direct connection between the trust rating of a member and his signature, so the answer to the question above in this case will most likely be no. If there were a way to somehow flag the signature itself as untrustworthy, I'd totally do that.

perfect reasonable and i'll follow that advice.

i'd love to have a way to trust-rate sigs and/or ads here Wink

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September 19, 2015, 10:24:36 AM
 #56

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

It's depend in what country you are! In Russian law if you are witnesses a crime as rape and didn't help you are guilty.    
Article 125 the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation

same is true for germany.
at least you have to call the police

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September 19, 2015, 12:07:25 PM
 #57

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

As other people said in many countries you are guilty if you do nothing, it´s not about morality only, my point stands, someone who knowingly promotes a scam or a scam scheme is a scammer as well
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September 19, 2015, 10:12:53 PM
 #58

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

As other people said in many countries you are guilty if you do nothing, it´s not about morality only, my point stands, someone who knowingly promotes a scam or a scam scheme is a scammer as well
By your logic; "forum administrators let those scams promoted on forum" then they're scammers too.
They have power to stop/delete/ban ponzi,hyip topics . But they don't, so they're scammer!

As I said earlier; "caveat emptor".


                  ,'#██+:                 
              ,█████████████'             
            +██████████████████           
          ;██████████████████████         
         ███████:         .███████`       
        ██████               ;█████'      
      `█████                   #████#     
      ████+                     `████+    
     ████:                        ████,   
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  +███     #████           ,████     ████ 
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 ████     ███████████████████████'    :███
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,███     ██████████████████████████    #███
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████    ███████████████████████████.   .███
████    ███████████████████████████'   .███
+███    ███████████████████████████+   :███
:███    ███████████████████████████'   +███
 ███    ███████████████████████████.   ███#
 ███.   #██████████████████████████    ███,
 ████    █████████████████████████+   `███
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  ███;    ███████████████████████     ███;
  ████     #████████████████████     ████ 
   ███#     .██████████████████     `███+ 
   ████`      ;██████████████       ████  
    ████         '███████#.        ████.  
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        ,██████:           `███████       
          ████████#;,..:+████████.        
           ,███████████████████+          
             .███████████████;            
                `+███████#,               
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September 19, 2015, 11:02:31 PM
 #59

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Witnessing a crime and not reporting is a in fact crime in most of Europe. I can't speak of the USA as I'm not even sure what the equivalent term in English since I'm a non-native speaker.

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September 19, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
 #60

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Witnessing a crime and not reporting is a in fact crime in most of Europe. I can't speak of the USA as I'm not even sure what the equivalent term in English since I'm a non-native speaker.


That is ridiculous.Who would come forward in court as eye witness if he would fear of being persecuted for witnessing the crime? One would rather keep mum than help in investigation
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September 19, 2015, 11:20:31 PM
 #61

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Witnessing a crime and not reporting is a in fact crime in most of Europe. I can't speak of the USA as I'm not even sure what the equivalent term in English since I'm a non-native speaker.


That is ridiculous.Who would come forward in court as eye witness if he would fear of being persecuted for witnessing the crime? One would rather keep mum than help in investigation

the point is to stop the crime from happening (in case of rape: stop the rapist asap). IMHO thats more important than the investigation afterwards.

AFAIK american law is much about revenge. german /european law is more about finding ways to not make such things happen again.

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September 19, 2015, 11:28:04 PM
 #62

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Witnessing a crime and not reporting is a in fact crime in most of Europe. I can't speak of the USA as I'm not even sure what the equivalent term in English since I'm a non-native speaker.


That is ridiculous.Who would come forward in court as eye witness if he would fear of being persecuted for witnessing the crime? One would rather keep mum than help in investigation

ahem

https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=failing+to+report+crime&tbm=nws
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September 20, 2015, 05:40:04 AM
 #63

I don't know why but I feel as if the thread is getting a bit derailed.
I see many people voted no for negative trust but I still don't think I have seen a strong argument as to why.



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September 20, 2015, 05:53:31 AM
 #64

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
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September 20, 2015, 06:01:34 AM
 #65

I don't know why but I feel as if the thread is getting a bit derailed.
I see many people voted no for negative trust but I still don't think I have seen a strong argument as to why.

Well, I think that occasional negative ratings can be ok. If for example someone is trying to deceive people into thinking that a HYIP/PONZI/PYRAMID is an actual investment opportunity without disclosing risks then in my opinion he's doing something very controversial. Such schemes benefit early 'investors' which the advertiser is likely one of them, as well as providing heavy referral rewards. It's very likely that any successful promotion will lead to people losing money.
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September 20, 2015, 06:02:52 AM
 #66

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.



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September 20, 2015, 07:06:38 AM
 #67

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friends would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust points you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventually be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.

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September 20, 2015, 07:09:48 AM
 #68

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friend would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust point you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventuammy be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.

Everyone is free to have his or her opinion, and you giving me 1k+ negative wouldn't affect my trust rating.
What you can do is stop running a ponzi and make shorena reconsider his negative feedback.



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September 20, 2015, 07:11:34 AM
 #69

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friend would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust point you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventuammy be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.

Everyone is free to have his or her opinion, and you giving me 1k+ negative wouldn't affect my trust rating.
What you can do is stop running a ponzi and make shorena reconsider his negative feedback.


but it is NOT a SPONZI

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September 20, 2015, 08:18:51 AM
 #70

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friend would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust point you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventuammy be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.

Everyone is free to have his or her opinion, and you giving me 1k+ negative wouldn't affect my trust rating.
What you can do is stop running a ponzi and make shorena reconsider his negative feedback.


but it is NOT a SPONZI

Yet, you are unable to explain to me how it is not. All you came up with - before you asked me to leave your thread - is that you get ad revenue. You still have not explained why you need investors for ad revenue and why you do not inform your possible investors in advance of your business.

I am open for arguments, but your sob story will not help you.
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September 20, 2015, 08:31:59 AM
 #71

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friend would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust point you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventuammy be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.

Everyone is free to have his or her opinion, and you giving me 1k+ negative wouldn't affect my trust rating.
What you can do is stop running a ponzi and make shorena reconsider his negative feedback.


but it is NOT a SPONZI

Yet, you are unable to explain to me how it is not. All you came up with - before you asked me to leave your thread - is that you get ad revenue. You still have not explained why you need investors for ad revenue and why you do not inform your possible investors in advance of your business.

I am open for arguments, but your sob story will not help you.
@winspiral- If you do want to "sob" about your negative trust try convincing shorena through PMs or make a thread in meta.



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GannickusX
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September 21, 2015, 08:06:15 AM
 #72

its like saying someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing is innocent

Technically, someone who witnesses a rape and does nothing IS innocent.   Undecided

You can't force morality on people.  You can't make people believe what you believe.

Some people on this planet only look out for themselves.

Witnessing a crime and not reporting is a in fact crime in most of Europe. I can't speak of the USA as I'm not even sure what the equivalent term in English since I'm a non-native speaker.


That is ridiculous.Who would come forward in court as eye witness if he would fear of being persecuted for witnessing the crime? One would rather keep mum than help in investigation

You guys are derailing the thread but you can always be an anonymous eye witness and yes moderators that do not remove those ponzi scams dont do it because they are told not to, it is not the same
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September 21, 2015, 10:51:58 AM
 #73

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friends would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust points you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventually be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.
Of course, ponzis and their advertisements aren't against the rules here or anything but leaving trust ratings freely is also not against the rules. If the single person in default trust that left you negative thinks advertising ponsis while not disclosing what they actually are is immoral they he's free to accuse you. While you probably didn't scam someone directly, the most responsible thing to do while advertising something would be to warn people that are potentially interested on what they could be getting into.
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September 21, 2015, 11:44:27 AM
 #74

i voted no, mostly ponzi signatures is just a paid one and some users only want to earn and not really promote the site in their sig
As to that argument I have two counter-arguments:
1) There are lots of signature campaigns so there is not really a necessity for joining a signature camp for a ponzi site.
2) Running for a signature campaign that you know is scam , and still turning a blind eye as to what effects it may have is a shady behaviour.
Although I do agree signature participants should be given a chance before they should be given a negative feedback for promoting a scam.

I have got 2 negative trust points for a link in my signature.
What can I do,
nothing...the voters have the last word even if they are wrong.
because this 2 negative trust points i have lost a sponsor.
What can i do?
Nothing.
Remove my link?
So if a link does not please  in a signature it need just to give negative trust points?
Do you think this is a fair system?
What would you say If I and severals of my friends would give you negative trust points for a wrong reason?
Because with my negative trust points you not only hurt me,but as well all winspiral's members who can lose money for a lying.

be carefull with your trust vote...it can fast be  explosive...
yes if you vote negative because you suppose that the member coulf eventually be a scammer...then you play with the fire and you can burn yourself.
Of course, ponzis and their advertisements aren't against the rules here or anything but leaving trust ratings freely is also not against the rules. If the single person in default trust that left you negative thinks advertising ponsis while not disclosing what they actually are is immoral they he's free to accuse you. While you probably didn't scam someone directly, the most responsible thing to do while advertising something would be to warn people that are potentially interested on what they could be getting into.

For me it is clear:
I will time let prove that it's not a ponzi and that i'm not a scammer...
Anyway one cannot do something against...
I cannot prove that my system is not a ponzi
and i cannot prove that i will not be a scammer in the future.
Can someone prove that he will never be a scammer?
Basta...


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September 21, 2015, 02:27:15 PM
 #75

If you can actually prove that this is not a ponzi (or scheme of similar likelihood) then I'm sure shorena would remove the rating and you'd stop being looked down upon. Time alone won't help a lot though, there have been scams running for a very long time.
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September 21, 2015, 03:02:13 PM
 #76

this is very hard to decide.

from one side, bitcoin is about freedom and this forum is almost without moderation (at least, compare to other forums on web), in other hand, one stupid link may literally ruin people lifes these days..

anyway yes, people promoting OBVIOUS ponzis should be marked red and not just by users..
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September 21, 2015, 03:49:21 PM
 #77

If you can actually prove that this is not a ponzi (or scheme of similar likelihood) then I'm sure shorena would remove the rating and you'd stop being looked down upon. Time alone won't help a lot though, there have been scams running for a very long time.

I tried...but shorena does not understand my English.
I wish only one thing..;that such thing does not happen to other forum members.
My purpose is programming systems,making money and dispatching it to my members...without risk.
if someone does see in this a ponzi sheme i cannot avoid it.
In my eyes with a ponsi sheme you have ever a loser...
Explain me how a system without losers can be a ponzi?
if asking satoshi means ponzi...then all no free systems are ponzi.
All sites are then certainly ponzi if you send satoshi somewhere because the recerver can not send you something for your satoshi.

But it is clear...here anyone can note negative for anyone and the "negative noted" can just dry...(lol)

In France...if you write something in a newspaper about you...you have a "droit de réponse" (right of answer)
I think near to the vote and comment from shorena,I should have  the right and the place to answer...

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September 21, 2015, 03:50:41 PM
 #78

If you can actually prove that this is not a ponzi (or scheme of similar likelihood) then I'm sure shorena would remove the rating and you'd stop being looked down upon. Time alone won't help a lot though, there have been scams running for a very long time.

I tried...but shorena does not understand my English.
I wish only one thing..;that such thing does not happen to other forum members.
My purpose is programming systems,making money and dispatching it to my members...without risk.
if someone does see in this a ponzi sheme i cannot avoid it.
In my eyes with a ponsi sheme you have ever a loser...
Explain me how a system without losers can be a ponzi?
if asking satoshi means ponzi...then all no free systems are ponzi.
All sites are then certainly ponzi if you send satoshi somewhere because the recerver can not send you something for your satoshi.

But it is clear...here anyone can note negative for anyone and the "negative noted" can just dry...(lol)

In France...if you write something in a newspaper about you...you have a "droit de réponse" (right of answer)
I think near to the vote and comment from shorena,I should have  the right and the place to answer...

Okay I get that but why do you need investors money for it then? And how can you promise back an interest along with it as well?



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September 21, 2015, 04:06:12 PM
 #79

Quote
Okay I get that but why do you need investors money for it then? And how can you promise back an interest along with it as well?

it is the two points who are not understood by my detractors...
i have explained it already 5 times:
the investment is JUST to fix the prorata of dividends.
I promise an interest but I do not promise a "amount of interest" for exemple 1% or 10% etc...
The only thing I promise is that the principal is given back in less then 100 days.
About the dividends nothing is promised...exept that what you see on your account will be given with the last payout.

So long people does not understand this...they believe that it is a ponzi.
But if one understand the principle...the one understand that it has absolutly nothing to do with a ponsi sheme.

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September 21, 2015, 04:36:20 PM
Last edit: September 21, 2015, 04:56:33 PM by shorena
 #80

If you can actually prove that this is not a ponzi (or scheme of similar likelihood) then I'm sure shorena would remove the rating and you'd stop being looked down upon. Time alone won't help a lot though, there have been scams running for a very long time.

I tried...but shorena does not understand my English.
-snip-

If you can explain it to anyone else and they can explain it to me that works as well. Again you claim 20 years of experience in this section, I would expect an expert like you to be able to break it down a bit from the technical terms.

-snip-
In France...if you write something in a newspaper about you...you have a "droit de réponse" (right of answer)
I think near to the vote and comment from shorena,I should have  the right and the place to answer...

I was under the impression that this was done when you answered me in your thread. You have stated your view on things, I have stated mine. You answered 1 out of 3 questions I have and asked me to leave your thread. I did and asked that you let me know when you are willing to answer my questions in simple terms. I dont think thats unreasonable. I have yet to received a PM. Instead you are now here, borderline derailing the thread.

To make sure we are on the same page here are the questions again:

-snip-
#1 how you make profit (you say from ads)
#2 how it is tied to the investors (if its from ads, why do you need their money?)
#3 why you explain nothing in that regard on your site?


Edit:

One more if you dont mind. You created your thread in the HYIP/Ponzi section. By your returns we can hardly talk about a HYIP. Why didnt you open a thread in the security section? Which would be the appropriate section for a non ponzi with reasonable returns.
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September 21, 2015, 05:05:18 PM
 #81

Quote
You answered 1 out of 3 questions I have and asked me to leave your thread.
if i have wrote this it was not in my mind...
have I wrote this?

Quote
#2 how it is tied to the investors (if its from ads, why do you need their money?)

I do not understant tied...

this is what i answered on my topic to an other member:

http://bitcoin.winspiral.net

Plan 100 days maxi.
Investment 1mBTC minimum

No risk...You can not lose.
You can follow the earning process several times updated per day.

Earning depends on the income of the site itself.
The investors are shareholders of the site.







This site and that addres were belong to you?? Can i get any detail here how you manage our money??? So i can make my personal analisis before i jump on yours program...

No problem even if I have it explained here several times.
it seems it is hard to understand for people...I hope it is understood by the investors.

Your money serves only and strictly only to determine the part of shares you have in the start-up.
is this clear?
if this is not understood...all my system is not understood.

let's suppose in my startup is invested 49mBTS (pending investment)
if you invest 1mBTC we have 50mBTC pending investment.
so each time a dividend is given you earn (dividend/50*1)

if you invest 2mBTC:
so each time a dividend is given you earn (dividend/51*2)

Is so far all clear...because if one does not understand this...i cannot imagine how one can analyse...

i have got 2 negative trust points from people who does not understand this...
The problem is...because of this 2 people i have lost my avatar sponsor.
If each time I would not understand something or someone i give a negative trust point i would only do this...



and for this:
Quote
#3 why you explain nothing in that regard on your site?

I thought that all would gone slower and that I would have more time to talk about little by little when pages are created.
I thought that discussion will start on the other forum where the link from is on homepage.
The talk about page is not yet "arranged"
But I feel that forums will not be enough to explain my system.(lol)

You have certainly noticed that on the site is a contact link where one can ask for more info too.












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September 21, 2015, 05:06:42 PM
 #82

But I feel that forums will not be enough to explain my system.(lol)

So you are saying this ponzi is your system, and you are not just promoting it?

I'm into creating universes, smiting people, writing holy books and listening to Prayer Messages (PMs).
Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 21, 2015, 05:09:59 PM
 #83

But I feel that forums will not be enough to explain my system.(lol)

So you are saying this ponzi is your system, and you are not just promoting it?

of course it is my system but not my ponzi (lol)

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September 21, 2015, 05:15:46 PM
 #84

"Most people know the results of investing in ponzi so won't make a difference"

Come on people... The name "Ponzi" will forever be synonymous with fraud.
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September 21, 2015, 05:16:54 PM
 #85

I voted the third option only because I think they should by punished if and only if they are aware of their scam they are advertising.
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September 21, 2015, 05:21:48 PM
 #86

No you shouldn't give those people negative trust.

It's allowed on this forum to create topics about the ponzi. If you don't want to have users promoting it, you should first stop the topics about the ponzi. If you allowed to first, you should accept the second.
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September 21, 2015, 05:36:27 PM
 #87

No you shouldn't give those people negative trust.

It's allowed on this forum to create topics about the ponzi. If you don't want to have users promoting it, you should first stop the topics about the ponzi. If you allowed to first, you should accept the second.


Creating a topic about ponzi is different from advertising or promoting ponzi
When we create a topic about ponzi, that is a way for us to discuss what the site is all about.
Topics like this helps educate and warn others that site is ponzi
Unlike a signature, it will say something about the site but not definitely say that site is pozi
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September 21, 2015, 09:28:55 PM
 #88

No you shouldn't give those people negative trust.

It's allowed on this forum to create topics about the ponzi. If you don't want to have users promoting it, you should first stop the topics about the ponzi. If you allowed to first, you should accept the second.


Its also allowed to scam you for all you have. That is the exact reason the DT system exists. To keep moderation and things like this seperated as much as possible.


Quote
You answered 1 out of 3 questions I have and asked me to leave your thread.
if i have wrote this it was not in my mind...
have I wrote this?

Here -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171677.msg12464219#msg12464219

At least that was my understanding of your "it is no need to tall about other things.." after you ignored my questions twice and talked about something else.

Quote
#2 how it is tied to the investors (if its from ads, why do you need their money?)

I do not understant tied...

this is what i answered on my topic to an other member:

The question is why do you need investors if your income comes from ads.

http://bitcoin.winspiral.net

Plan 100 days maxi.
Investment 1mBTC minimum

No risk...You can not lose.
You can follow the earning process several times updated per day.

Earning depends on the income of the site itself.
The investors are shareholders of the site.







This site and that addres were belong to you?? Can i get any detail here how you manage our money??? So i can make my personal analisis before i jump on yours program...

No problem even if I have it explained here several times.
it seems it is hard to understand for people...I hope it is understood by the investors.

Your money serves only and strictly only to determine the part of shares you have in the start-up.
is this clear?

Yes, you sell "shares". The question still remains, why? Do you have expenses that are covered by 1mBTC shares? Usually a company sells shares because they need money, e.g. to expand. Investors assess the situation of the company the possible expansion and decide to invest. They take a risk that the expansion might fail with the promisse that if the company is successfully the investors also got a part of the profit or their shares raise in value, usually both.

if this is not understood...all my system is not understood.

let's suppose in my startup is invested 49mBTS (pending investment)
if you invest 1mBTC we have 50mBTC pending investment.
so each time a dividend is given you earn (dividend/50*1)


if you invest 2mBTC:
so each time a dividend is given you earn (dividend/51*2)

I dont get it. If I double my investment the dividend you pay gets divided by 102 instead of 50? Why do I get a smaller piece if I invest more?

Is so far all clear...because if one does not understand this...i cannot imagine how one can analyse...


i have got 2 negative trust points from people who does not understand this...
The problem is...because of this 2 people i have lost my avatar sponsor.
If each time I would not understand something or someone i give a negative trust point i would only do this...

You want peoples coins, there should be no doubt what they are buying from you.

and for this:
Quote
#3 why you explain nothing in that regard on your site?

I thought that all would gone slower and that I would have more time to talk about little by little when pages are created.
I thought that discussion will start on the other forum where the link from is on homepage.
The talk about page is not yet "arranged"
But I feel that forums will not be enough to explain my system.(lol)

You have certainly noticed that on the site is a contact link where one can ask for more info too.

So you just did not have the time to inform the people you take money from what you do with their money?
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September 21, 2015, 11:04:25 PM
 #89

Quote
So you just did not have the time to inform the people you take money from what you do with their money?

If I see how hard it is to inform you just to inform that with this money is done nothing and it is just used to fix the prorata...I do not regret not talking about...
it's a startup...and investors who have invested have not waited that you understand...
they have contact me and have asked about what was not clear...
Do not take investors for "idiots"...

Is what I do with the money so important?
What is important is that investors invest and are sure to get back their money...with profit.
More is not in the deal.
You trust or you do not trust me.
Investors are clever enough to investigate about winspiral and they can easily see if it is worth or not to invest and if winspiral is trustable.

I have started my system and given the possibility to invest at who want...
After if people invest or do not invest does absolutly not matter for me.
All we are now talking about has so few importance because if I would scam people,I could scam people...but why should I now after so long time on the net?
Just for few satoshi?
Do you believe that people will invest 100 bitcoin for just few satoshi dividends?

Have you not understood that if to much is invested for actual dividends it is non-sens and then even if all is given back it is non-sens.

Why should I invent a ponzi where it is not recommended to invest to much if dividends are low?
Why should I invent a ponzi where I show that the dividend is low?

Once again...
I program systems for the fun...and people invest if they want and if they do not trust they do not invest.
I do not say they have to leave the thread...just not invest.
If they trust me...then just invest if they think that the profit is interesting.
After what i do with their money...I say it and say it again...i do nothing with  it it is just for the dividend dispatching.

My system is not just an investisment system.
It is more a game where you have to decide if it is interesting to invest.
it's not "invest and you get 10% in 100 days"...
No.
You have to decide if for you...and only for you it is interesting to invest for eventually very few dividends or perhaps yes perhaps more.
You play this game or not...
For me even if only one do play...it is enough(i have already explain it)

To be honnest with you:
I had never believed that so much is so fast invested in my system.
I believed that people will first "look" how things will progress.

Good night...it's late here in France (lol)








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September 21, 2015, 11:25:17 PM
 #90

I apologize if I'm asking a noob question and I also apologize if this is the wrong thread to be asking the question, but I feel like it's germain to this discussion (forgive me if I'm wrong):

What is an Avatar sponsorship and how does a negative trust rating effect it?
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September 22, 2015, 07:21:28 AM
 #91

I apologize if I'm asking a noob question and I also apologize if this is the wrong thread to be asking the question, but I feel like it's germain to this discussion (forgive me if I'm wrong):

What is an Avatar sponsorship and how does a negative trust rating effect it?

I'm a living exemple for your question:
iI had a sponsor who bought my avatar place and I put at this place his avatar and few propotion words.
I got negative points...and so My sponsor has decide to stop the avatar sponsoring because he want not be associated with a negative pointed.

it is why you should be carefull with your power to give negative points because you can indirectly decrease the incomes of an innocent.

My negative trust pointers believe that they do somethings good for the society,but in reality they destroy a part of incomes of an innocent for a wrong reason.

I insist about this story for at least 5 reasons:
1)My reputation is blacked because it is said i'm a ponzi promoter.
2)My site is blacked because wrong promotion is made about it.
3)I lose money for many reason for this misinformation.
4)People perhaps will lose money  because they do not invest after reading that i'm a ponzi promoter.
5)My investors are taken for (Chose the word yourself) because they have invested in a supposed ponzi.
6)My investors will ean less because I and my start-up earn less.

It's the last reason who hurt me the most because innocent investors loose money for wrong reason.



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September 22, 2015, 07:45:53 AM
 #92

i dont know if it is allowed or not ,but people do get a neg trust when they are caught doing it ..
check VOD's sent feedbacks you can find many neg's on this case.
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September 22, 2015, 08:00:58 AM
 #93

I'd like to see some click stats on signature campaigns. I wonder if they get a lot of traffic or rather mediocre traffic...

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September 22, 2015, 08:03:45 AM
 #94

Quote
So you just did not have the time to inform the people you take money from what you do with their money?

If I see how hard it is to inform you just to inform that with this money is done nothing and it is just used to fix the prorata...I do not regret not talking about...
it's a startup...and investors who have invested have not waited that you understand...
they have contact me and have asked about what was not clear...
Do not take investors for "idiots"...

It is your assumption that I take your investors for anything. Please if you find someone that understands your system, have them contact me. You keep repeating the same things, there is no reason to do so.

Is what I do with the money so important?

In my opinion (and that of other) it is. I would like to assume that everyone thinks their own money is important enough to at least understand what they spend it on. There is nothing I can do about people that just blindly trust someone, but warn them. This is what your rating is about. Its a warning that you run and promote a complex investment scheme you seem unable to explain in plain english. I think I should probably rephrase the rating to reflect that and link to this thread as it allows those who care to read up on our discussion and make up their own mind.

What is important is that investors invest and are sure to get back their money...with profit.
More is not in the deal.
You trust or you do not trust me.

I dont trust you, in fact I have a strong feeling that you are after coins from other people without a concept (this was only clear after the discussion) only to enrich yourself. Your scheme reeks like ponzi, you fail to address questions and repeat the same bogus stuff over and over again.

Investors are clever enough to investigate about winspiral and they can easily see if it is worth or not to invest and if winspiral is trustable.

If that is true, than my rating did nothing to you or your business. If investors actually understand your system and have researched your system, they should have no problem to cast my opinion aside and invest regardless.

I have started my system and given the possibility to invest at who want...
After if people invest or do not invest does absolutly not matter for me.
All we are now talking about has so few importance because if I would scam people,I could scam people...but why should I now after so long time on the net?
Just for few satoshi?
Do you believe that people will invest 100 bitcoin for just few satoshi dividends?

Scammers gonna scam for the smallest amounts. You dont have a point here.

Have you not understood that if to much is invested for actual dividends it is non-sens and then even if all is given back it is non-sens.

What would be too much for you though?

Why should I invent a ponzi where it is not recommended to invest to much if dividends are low?
Why should I invent a ponzi where I show that the dividend is low?

Once again...
I program systems for the fun...and people invest if they want and if they do not trust they do not invest.
I do not say they have to leave the thread...just not invest.
If they trust me...then just invest if they think that the profit is interesting.
After what i do with their money...I say it and say it again...i do nothing with  it it is just for the dividend dispatching.

If you just want to give away a little, why not create a faucet? Why do ask for money if you dont need it?

My system is not just an investisment system.
It is more a game where you have to decide if it is interesting to invest.
it's not "invest and you get 10% in 100 days"...
No.
You have to decide if for you...and only for you it is interesting to invest for eventually very few dividends or perhaps yes perhaps more.
You play this game or not...
For me even if only one do play...it is enough(i have already explain it)

To be honnest with you:
I had never believed that so much is so fast invested in my system.
I believed that people will first "look" how things will progress.

Good night...it's late here in France (lol)

Good night.

tl;dr Since you dont answer my questions anyway, find someone that can.

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September 22, 2015, 08:14:32 AM
 #95

For example  now is running ICO [SCAM]SweetStake[SCAM] on yobit exchange. I think this is one of ponzi plan. So in author opinion should I remove they logo from my signature and give every one negative trust who didn't do this? 

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September 22, 2015, 08:26:39 AM
 #96

It's very simple, you can leave negative feedback if

Quote
You were scammed or you strongly believe that this person is a scammer.

If you don't, don't.

Simple.

Extraordinary Claims require Extraordinary Evidence
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September 22, 2015, 08:44:32 AM
 #97

For example  now is running ICO [SCAM]SweetStake[SCAM] on yobit exchange. I think this is one of ponzi plan. So in author opinion should I remove they logo from my signature and give every one negative trust who didn't do this? 
AFAIK its a alt coin, I here am talking only about ponzi sites(not plans) which require you to send btc to a address and promise a false return.



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T
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September 22, 2015, 08:51:10 AM
 #98

Quote
So you just did not have the time to inform the people you take money from what you do with their money?

If I see how hard it is to inform you just to inform that with this money is done nothing and it is just used to fix the prorata...I do not regret not talking about...
it's a startup...and investors who have invested have not waited that you understand...
they have contact me and have asked about what was not clear...
Do not take investors for "idiots"...

It is your assumption that I take your investors for anything. Please if you find someone that understands your system, have them contact me. You keep repeating the same things, there is no reason to do so.

Is what I do with the money so important?

In my opinion (and that of other) it is. I would like to assume that everyone thinks their own money is important enough to at least understand what they spend it on. There is nothing I can do about people that just blindly trust someone, but warn them. This is what your rating is about. Its a warning that you run and promote a complex investment scheme you seem unable to explain in plain english. I think I should probably rephrase the rating to reflect that and link to this thread as it allows those who care to read up on our discussion and make up their own mind.

What is important is that investors invest and are sure to get back their money...with profit.
More is not in the deal.
You trust or you do not trust me.

I dont trust you, in fact I have a strong feeling that you are after coins from other people without a concept (this was only clear after the discussion) only to enrich yourself. Your scheme reeks like ponzi, you fail to address questions and repeat the same bogus stuff over and over again.

Investors are clever enough to investigate about winspiral and they can easily see if it is worth or not to invest and if winspiral is trustable.

If that is true, than my rating did nothing to you or your business. If investors actually understand your system and have researched your system, they should have no problem to cast my opinion aside and invest regardless.

I have started my system and given the possibility to invest at who want...
After if people invest or do not invest does absolutly not matter for me.
All we are now talking about has so few importance because if I would scam people,I could scam people...but why should I now after so long time on the net?
Just for few satoshi?
Do you believe that people will invest 100 bitcoin for just few satoshi dividends?

Scammers gonna scam for the smallest amounts. You dont have a point here.

Have you not understood that if to much is invested for actual dividends it is non-sens and then even if all is given back it is non-sens.

What would be too much for you though?

Why should I invent a ponzi where it is not recommended to invest to much if dividends are low?
Why should I invent a ponzi where I show that the dividend is low?

Once again...
I program systems for the fun...and people invest if they want and if they do not trust they do not invest.
I do not say they have to leave the thread...just not invest.
If they trust me...then just invest if they think that the profit is interesting.
After what i do with their money...I say it and say it again...i do nothing with  it it is just for the dividend dispatching.

If you just want to give away a little, why not create a faucet? Why do ask for money if you dont need it?

My system is not just an investisment system.
It is more a game where you have to decide if it is interesting to invest.
it's not "invest and you get 10% in 100 days"...
No.
You have to decide if for you...and only for you it is interesting to invest for eventually very few dividends or perhaps yes perhaps more.
You play this game or not...
For me even if only one do play...it is enough(i have already explain it)

To be honnest with you:
I had never believed that so much is so fast invested in my system.
I believed that people will first "look" how things will progress.

Good night...it's late here in France (lol)

Good night.

tl;dr Since you dont answer my questions anyway, find someone that can.



Thanks for your interest in my system...even if you disapprove it.

it is endless...it seems you are the only one who does not undertand.
But it is better so (lol)(that it seem you are the only one,not that you do not understand)

I will take your "interrogations" as base for doing a "FAQ" page on my site because here is all spoted every where and it is even more confuse that my own site itself(lol)
And with an french man who cannot perfectly write english an a forum member who does not understand what is wroten it is not easy...
By the way i have  running 2 faucets...why program another one?
But if it can rassure you...my 2 faucets are even more complicated than my invest system...(lol)
Fortunately you have not yet seen them...because ther are even more suspectable to be scams.


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September 23, 2015, 02:42:09 PM
 #99

No you shouldn't give those people negative trust.

It's allowed on this forum to create topics about the ponzi. If you don't want to have users promoting it, you should first stop the topics about the ponzi. If you allowed to first, you should accept the second.


Creating a topic about ponzi is different from advertising or promoting ponzi
When we create a topic about ponzi, that is a way for us to discuss what the site is all about.
Topics like this helps educate and warn others that site is ponzi
Unlike a signature, it will say something about the site but not definitely say that site is pozi

A topic is also promotion for the ponzi. Its just made to get people to the website. You're right about the signature doesnt mention its a ponzi, but people can read right. If you see something like 'GET YOUR BTC DOUBLES WITHIN 24 HOURS' there should go some alarm-bells ringing.
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September 25, 2015, 09:45:29 AM
 #100

No you shouldn't give those people negative trust.

It's allowed on this forum to create topics about the ponzi. If you don't want to have users promoting it, you should first stop the topics about the ponzi. If you allowed to first, you should accept the second.


Creating a topic about ponzi is different from advertising or promoting ponzi
When we create a topic about ponzi, that is a way for us to discuss what the site is all about.
Topics like this helps educate and warn others that site is ponzi
Unlike a signature, it will say something about the site but not definitely say that site is pozi

A topic is also promotion for the ponzi. Its just made to get people to the website. You're right about the signature doesnt mention its a ponzi, but people can read right. If you see something like 'GET YOUR BTC DOUBLES WITHIN 24 HOURS' there should go some alarm-bells ringing.

even if you see 'GET YOUR BTC DOUBLES WITHIN 1 YEAR'

It is probably a ponzi.

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September 27, 2015, 10:17:07 AM
 #101

Well, in the beginning the whole Bitcoin cryptocurrency scene was considered a ponzi scam by many.  In fact, I still hear that from many today, even after it got some legitimacy behind it.  Putting an untrustworthy label on somebody because something they promote appears too good to be true, or what they promote is associated with other projects that were scams, would be wrong without providing a fair sample of proof.  When you think about it:  when we promote Bitcoin, we're doing so in light of Mt. GOX, the silk road, and every other scam that uses the blockchain; however, we aren't responsible for those accounts, so we shouldn't be labeled untrustworthy on account of them.  Right?
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September 27, 2015, 11:15:30 PM
 #102

Well, in the beginning the whole Bitcoin cryptocurrency scene was considered a ponzi scam by many.

Well, they were wrong. Bitcoin has never been a ponzi in any way.

Buy & Hold
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September 28, 2015, 04:04:39 AM
 #103

Well, in the beginning the whole Bitcoin cryptocurrency scene was considered a ponzi scam by many.

Well, they were wrong. Bitcoin has never been a ponzi in any way.

That's my point....People shouldn't get a negative trust for their signature in a signature campaign unless it is "proven" that they're culpable...otherwise, we'd all have negative trust based on popular opinion.
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September 28, 2015, 04:14:35 AM
Last edit: September 28, 2015, 09:45:55 AM by Vod
 #104

New question - should people who offer to sell pictures of their boobs for positive trust be given negative trust instead?   Undecided

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1193147.0

(Edited to provide google cache since the scammer deleted his/her post)

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Nastyfans is a proven ponzi! BitcoinTalk Public Information Project (BPIP)  - BPIP Reports FAMO
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September 28, 2015, 07:58:37 AM
 #105

New question - should people who offer to sell pictures of their boobs for positive trust be given negative trust instead?   Undecided

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1193147

Cmon, dont derail the thread. Besides you should have made a backup of their thread, it was edited and there is just free pictures now.

-snip-
That's my point....People shouldn't get a negative trust for their signature in a signature campaign unless it is "proven" that they're culpable...otherwise, we'd all have negative trust based on popular opinion.

How do you suggest we prove that?
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September 30, 2015, 04:02:45 AM
 #106

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

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September 30, 2015, 08:24:43 AM
 #107

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

I wrote them a PM, judging by the boards they post in, they are aware. I think they should be given time to respond here though.

PS: https://archive.is/2muLo
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September 30, 2015, 08:31:01 AM
 #108

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

Personally, I don't have too much problem with sigs like that, it's clearly marked HYIP which anyone with the slightest idea knows means Ponzi.
HYIP is just a name the industry made up.
The site Rob It Bot  Cheesy (the clue's in the name) only makes a half hearted attempt to pretend they are anything but a last in loses Ponzi type scheme.
There has got to be some Caveat Emptor somewhere, anyone going into that would probably have their eyes open.

What I think should be negatived are schemes like the one in my homemade sig, which blatantly lie and pretend to be legitimate, forex dealing, arbitrage, cloudminers etc.
That's why the CloudThink signature campaign raised a lot of criticism of senior + members who signed up for it, it so obviously screamed scam while pretending to be legit, but they still queued up to take the money.
I personally think that established forum members have a duty to research what they advertise and if there is a major red flag, err on the side of caution and decide against helping pretty likely scammers (although not proven to legal standards maybe) with their deception.

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September 30, 2015, 01:59:40 PM
 #109

Well, in the beginning the whole Bitcoin cryptocurrency scene was considered a ponzi scam by many.  In fact, I still hear that from many today, even after it got some legitimacy behind it.  Putting an untrustworthy label on somebody because something they promote appears too good to be true, or what they promote is associated with other projects that were scams, would be wrong without providing a fair sample of proof.  When you think about it:  when we promote Bitcoin, we're doing so in light of Mt. GOX, the silk road, and every other scam that uses the blockchain; however, we aren't responsible for those accounts, so we shouldn't be labeled untrustworthy on account of them.  Right?

That makes no sense, yes people may have thought that bitcoin was a ponzi but these guys are promoting a ponzi, they are telling you it's a ponzi, there is nothing to prove since ponzies are scam, they are not a real strategy or business investment, they are a scam .
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September 30, 2015, 04:33:40 PM
 #110

That's why the CloudThink signature campaign raised a lot of criticism of senior + members who signed up for it, it so obviously screamed scam while pretending to be legit, but they still queued up to take the money.
I personally think that established forum members have a duty to research what they advertise and if there is a major red flag, err on the side of caution and decide against helping pretty likely scammers (although not proven to legal standards maybe) with their deception.

I cannot agree more, people need to wake up and realize that promoting questionable businesses is a problem. Unfortunately people are easily swayed with relatively small amounts of money.
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October 02, 2015, 06:19:35 AM
 #111

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

Personally, I don't have too much problem with sigs like that, it's clearly marked HYIP which anyone with the slightest idea knows means Ponzi.
HYIP is just a name the industry made up.
The site Rob It Bot  Cheesy (the clue's in the name) only makes a half hearted attempt to pretend they are anything but a last in loses Ponzi type scheme.
There has got to be some Caveat Emptor somewhere, anyone going into that would probably have their eyes open.

What I think should be negatived are schemes like the one in my homemade sig, which blatantly lie and pretend to be legitimate, forex dealing, arbitrage, cloudminers etc.
That's why the CloudThink signature campaign raised a lot of criticism of senior + members who signed up for it, it so obviously screamed scam while pretending to be legit, but they still queued up to take the money.
I personally think that established forum members have a duty to research what they advertise and if there is a major red flag, err on the side of caution and decide against helping pretty likely scammers (although not proven to legal standards maybe) with their deception.
hmm i dont have problem too  Grin
anyhow this is topic for this discussion, so i just bring along the profile that promote ponzi in their signature,
some people here got negative feedback but some don't for promoting ponzi signature. just curious..  Undecided

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October 02, 2015, 11:50:03 AM
 #112

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

I wrote them a PM, judging by the boards they post in, they are aware. I think they should be given time to respond here though.

PS: https://archive.is/2muLo

Hi Shorena, I noticed I was given negative trust by you because I had a ref link of an investor-based game (ponzi) in my signature. I wasn't sent a PM warning me first of the consequences though. If I had known it was frowned upon I would have gladly removed the link. I have now read this thread and I understand my error.

Is there any way to be forgiven of this mistake and for the trust level to be restored?



 
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October 02, 2015, 12:10:53 PM
 #113

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

I wrote them a PM, judging by the boards they post in, they are aware. I think they should be given time to respond here though.

PS: https://archive.is/2muLo

Hi Shorena, I noticed I was given negative trust by you because I had a ref link of an investor-based game (ponzi) in my signature. I wasn't sent a PM warning me first of the consequences though. If I had known it was frowned upon I would have gladly removed the link. I have now read this thread and I understand my error.

Is there any way to be forgiven of this mistake and for the trust level to be restored?

Yeah, sorry for that I did not send a PM to everyone at first. Seeing that you removed the signature I removed the rating as well.
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October 02, 2015, 06:49:34 PM
 #114

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=481346
this guy promote hyip too in his signature, Undecided but still with neutral trust.

I wrote them a PM, judging by the boards they post in, they are aware. I think they should be given time to respond here though.

PS: https://archive.is/2muLo

Hi Shorena, I noticed I was given negative trust by you because I had a ref link of an investor-based game (ponzi) in my signature. I wasn't sent a PM warning me first of the consequences though. If I had known it was frowned upon I would have gladly removed the link. I have now read this thread and I understand my error.

Is there any way to be forgiven of this mistake and for the trust level to be restored?

Yeah, sorry for that I did not send a PM to everyone at first. Seeing that you removed the signature I removed the rating as well.

Thank you very much, @Shorena.

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October 04, 2015, 02:03:49 AM
 #115

New question - should people who offer to sell pictures of their boobs for positive trust be given negative trust instead?   Undecided

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1193147

Cmon, dont derail the thread. Besides you should have made a backup of their thread, it was edited and there is just free pictures now.

-snip-
That's my point....People shouldn't get a negative trust for their signature in a signature campaign unless it is "proven" that they're culpable...otherwise, we'd all have negative trust based on popular opinion.

How do you suggest we prove that?

I suggest proving it with proof.  If one is convinced that a signature campaign is a ponzi scam, to justify punishing somebody who is not convinced, one should, at least, be able to provide support for their argument in the form of facts and not just opinion alone.
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October 04, 2015, 02:07:17 AM
 #116

I don't think people should get negative trust. I think this poll or question should be something like this:  If a ponzi operator claims it is a ponzi, and there is a chance you will not get your money back, will people still play.  I am fairly certain most of the people still playing realize its a ponzi and are hoping to get a double here or there. Why not just be honest and hope for the best.
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October 04, 2015, 09:06:01 AM
 #117

New question - should people who offer to sell pictures of their boobs for positive trust be given negative trust instead?   Undecided

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1193147

Cmon, dont derail the thread. Besides you should have made a backup of their thread, it was edited and there is just free pictures now.

-snip-
That's my point....People shouldn't get a negative trust for their signature in a signature campaign unless it is "proven" that they're culpable...otherwise, we'd all have negative trust based on popular opinion.

How do you suggest we prove that?

I suggest proving it with proof.  If one is convinced that a signature campaign is a ponzi scam, to justify punishing somebody who is not convinced, one should, at least, be able to provide support for their argument in the form of facts and not just opinion alone.

So we tag ponzis after they ran with the money?
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October 04, 2015, 09:40:26 AM
 #118

Quote
So we tag ponzis after they ran with the money?

if you tag before you can kill innocent ones
If you tag after it is almost too late.

If you think putting all in the same hole and recover them for ever is the best solution then tag...
but please do not cry in the future if you are killing with innocent ones.
perhaps a day you will be in the same situation as me for an other fact.

For you if people do not think same than you they are on the bad side.
Why could people among themselves not play ponzi?
Ok about scammers...but you cannot know in advance if a ponzi runner is systematickly a scammer.
if you think that ponzi's and investment systems are against the rules on this forum,then propose to the rule changing and we are then with forul rules and not imaginative members rules.
if here each member imagine his own rules it is the end of this forum.
If all members here believing that you are wrong "tag" you...what would you say then?
Do you believe then that you are "over" the rules too?

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October 04, 2015, 09:58:40 AM
Last edit: October 04, 2015, 10:09:03 AM by Lethn
 #119

With this kind of attitude towards all of this you guys are getting dangerously getting close to the 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality, I personally do my best to avoid sites that do dodgy shit and also avoid the ones that put silly restrictions on what I can and can't say about them. However, you can't prevent stupid people from pissing away their money on ponzi schemes. You can only really warn them, if you lot go into a scorched earth policy with this kind of thing you'll have a lot of angry newbies posting around and a lot less people will be willing to register here and it will make even me consider staying the fuck out.
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October 04, 2015, 10:10:31 AM
 #120

Quote
So we tag ponzis after they ran with the money?

if you tag before you can kill innocent ones
If you tag after it is almost too late.

If you think putting all in the same hole and recover them for ever is the best solution then tag...
but please do not cry in the future if you are killing with innocent ones.
perhaps a day you will be in the same situation as me for an other fact.

For you if people do not think same than you they are on the bad side.

No, that is just your interpretation. You claim to be innocent without addressing any of the issues I presented you.

Why could people among themselves not play ponzi?

Why advertise outside of the ponzi section if you want to stay within? Notice how I dont tag anyone that stays in that section? Because I dont have a problem with ponzis in general, I have problem with people like you that present overly complicated systems and try to pitch them as safe investments.

Ok about scammers...but you cannot know in advance if a ponzi runner is systematickly a scammer.
if you think that ponzi's and investment systems are against the rules on this forum,then propose to the rule changing and we are then with forul rules and not imaginative members rules.

I dont think ponzis are against the rules, scams are neither. Trust is not about rules.

if here each member imagine his own rules it is the end of this forum.
If all members here believing that you are wrong "tag" you...what would you say then?

Depends on the wording of the rating. I have little problems with people leaving me negative ratings out of spite, its pretty obvious anyway.

Do you believe then that you are "over" the rules too?

No.

With this kind of attitude towards all of this you guys are getting dangerously getting close to the 'guilty until proven innocent' mentality,

Yet we are no judges, we do not imprison anyone, we can just issue warnings. There is a big difference here in the power someone on DT actually has and the power a court has.

I personally do my best to avoid sites that do dodgy shit and also avoid the ones that put silly restrictions on what I can and can't say about them. However, you can't prevent stupid people from pissing away their money on ponzi schemes, you can only really warn them, if you lot go into a scorched earth policy with this kind of thing you'll have a lot of angry newbies posting around and a lot less people will be willing to register here and it will make even me consider staying the fuck out.

Its all I do, its all anyone on DT can do, nothing more.
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October 04, 2015, 11:18:17 AM
 #121

@ shorena

we are not in phase...
you believe that I'm a ponzi owner and will soon or late scam...

I believe that you "modify" unjustly my system and your negative point and certainly indirectly the second I have got makes "fishbone" effect in my throat...

But you can be rassured I will not point you negatively for your wrong believehood about my site and me.
Perhaps in a year or 2 you will see that I have given more out that I have get in...and perhaps then you will change your mind about "winspiral"


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October 04, 2015, 11:51:55 AM
 #122

Quote
So we tag ponzis after they ran with the money?

if you tag before you can kill innocent ones
If you tag after it is almost too late.

If you think putting all in the same hole and recover them for ever is the best solution then tag...
but please do not cry in the future if you are killing with innocent ones.
perhaps a day you will be in the same situation as me for an other fact.

For you if people do not think same than you they are on the bad side.
Why could people among themselves not play ponzi?
Ok about scammers...but you cannot know in advance if a ponzi runner is systematickly a scammer.
if you think that ponzi's and investment systems are against the rules on this forum,then propose to the rule changing and we are then with forul rules and not imaginative members rules.
if here each member imagine his own rules it is the end of this forum.
If all members here believing that you are wrong "tag" you...what would you say then?
Do you believe then that you are "over" the rules too?


Innocent ones? All ponzi schemes are that, ponzi schemes, we all know how they work, they have to scam in order to exist.
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October 04, 2015, 12:02:40 PM
 #123

I'm not going to give bad reputation for someone promoting a ponzi scheme in their signature. You should just leave bad reputation to the owners of that website.

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October 28, 2015, 05:24:30 AM
 #124

If people know how to tell a ponzi from a legitimate site, I'm sure there's no excuse to advertise a ponzi in your signature then.
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October 28, 2015, 05:40:18 AM
 #125

I'm not going to give bad reputation for someone promoting a ponzi scheme in their signature. You should just leave bad reputation to the owners of that website.

Isn't it bad to promote sites like that since you are like asking someone to use it and you vouch for that site?
So I guess promoters together with the site owner should be liable for the continued spread of the ponzi site because of continues promotion
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October 28, 2015, 03:26:02 PM
 #126

I'm not going to give bad reputation for someone promoting a ponzi scheme in their signature. You should just leave bad reputation to the owners of that website.

Me too. I'll just post negative comments to the ponzi owners thread if there are any to warn potential victims. I lose money on ponzis too and i only blame myself for not being vigilant.
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October 28, 2015, 03:56:10 PM
 #127

I believe that people have not yet done the differency with ponzi and scammer.
A ponzi is a game and if people know that it is a ponzi and what a ponzi is,they know that it is a risky game.

A scammer is not the same level.
A scammer can steal you with a "non-ponzi" site as well.

All hyip are generally ponzi...this does not mean that the hyip runner is a scammer.

If you would be right all ponzi monitors runner should be negative trusted because they promote ponzi or hyip(this is the same)

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October 31, 2015, 02:09:24 AM
 #128

My question is: what are the requirements that would be used to determine which signatures are ponzis and which are not?  All ponzis are not alike and some are very cleverly disguised as legitimate investments.  Most are not even defined as a ponzi until the investors have lost their investment and the scheme has pulled up its stakes.  So, if we're going to give negative trust to those who have ponzis in their signatures, what would be the pillars to determine that fact?
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October 31, 2015, 02:19:13 AM
 #129

Ponzis and HYIPs are easy to spot. Impossible high return in a short period of time form sites advertising they have a magical formula to earn money real quick and wants to do the community a favour. There is no excuse advertising for a ponzi, it is not ethical. Members who advertising for them should be warned and given negative trust if warning is ignored.

We all have a responsibility to try our best stop these scams. Bitcoin is given bad impressions because of these.
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October 31, 2015, 02:31:33 AM
 #130

Ponzis and HYIPs are easy to spot. Impossible high return in a short period of time form sites advertising they have a magical formula to earn money real quick and wants to do the community a favour. There is no excuse advertising for a ponzi, it is not ethical. Members who advertising for them should be warned and given negative trust if warning is ignored.

We all have a responsibility to try our best stop these scams. Bitcoin is given bad impressions because of these.

I agree that we should all come together as a community to stop the scams; however, I disagree that they are easy to spot....Remember, there were many who classified Bitcoin proper as being a ponzi in the beginning; in fact, I believe there are still some on-going court cases which are still arguing that point.  We need to be careful about where we point our fingers because we my find ourselves pointing into the mirror someday.
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October 31, 2015, 12:30:42 PM
 #131

I don't think these guys deserve negative rep unless they're spamming, or fully throwing this ponzi "out there". I think we should give them neutral trust, but with s negative comment.
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December 05, 2015, 03:19:19 PM
Last edit: December 05, 2015, 03:48:50 PM by tmfp
 #132

....Remember, there were many who classified Bitcoin proper as being a ponzi in the beginning; in fact, I believe there are still some on-going court cases which are still arguing that point.  

This old bullshit again.
What court cases? Link or STFU.

"Many" people believe lots of things, so what?

Negative trust mean what it says, you don't trust them because you strongly believe they are scammers.
Scammer = thief.
People who knowingly run or shill for unsustainable "investment" schemes such as Ponzis, whether in fiat or crypto, are thieves and accomplices of thieves.
End of fucking story.



A ponzi is a game

No it is not.
A Ponzi is a scheme which misrepresents its income in order to steal money from investors. Hundreds of millions of dollars are stolen every year worldwide by criminal gangs operating these schemes. They are most definitely not a fucking game.

If you're talking about the "last in loses" games that are played by people on BCT in Investors and Games, that's a completely different thing altogether.



Mexxer-2 uselessly given me a negative trust, even though I have clearly added, invest at your risk, isnt that just misusing your powers ( he says he is on DT-3 )

Good for him, you deserve it, promoting that shit.
He strongly believes you are shilling for money by advertising a scam and doesn't trust you because of that, so why shouldn't he say so?
It doesn't matter if he's on DT1 or DT101.
Putting "Invest at your own risk" means nothing, apart from confirming that you realise it's a scam in the first place.



Two ninja edits, don't want to be accused of posting for my sig campaign. Smiley

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December 05, 2015, 03:51:46 PM
 #133

^

*cough*

Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Gambling > Investor-based games

Why would thermos do that?!
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December 05, 2015, 03:53:43 PM
 #134


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.
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December 05, 2015, 04:00:02 PM
 #135


Because he's a libertarian and believes in Caveat Emptor, but mainly because the all important "legit" gambling lobby on here was moaning about this type of scheme being promoted in their sub forum.
I've watched it since it started and I think that the kids who go in there with their faucet dust burning a hole in their wallets have understood pretty quick what is real and what is not so, on balance, I think Investor based is a useful sub forum.
I'm not advocating wrapping people in cotton wool to insulate them from the big bad world, but calling out thieves and liars is a different matter.

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December 05, 2015, 04:02:11 PM
 #136


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.
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December 05, 2015, 04:05:16 PM
 #137

....Remember, there were many who classified Bitcoin proper as being a ponzi in the beginning; in fact, I believe there are still some on-going court cases which are still arguing that point.  

This old bullshit again.
What court cases? Link or STFU.

"Many" people believe lots of things, so what?

Negative trust mean what it says, you don't trust them because you strongly believe they are scammers.
Scammer = thief.
People who knowingly run or shill for unsustainable "investment" schemes such as Ponzis, whether in fiat or crypto, are thieves and accomplices of thieves.
End of fucking story.



A ponzi is a game

No it is not.
A Ponzi is a scheme which misrepresents its income in order to steal money from investors. Hundreds of millions of dollars are stolen every year worldwide by criminal gangs operating these schemes. They are most definitely not a fucking game.

If you're talking about the "last in loses" games that are played by people on BCT in Investors and Games, that's a completely different thing altogether.



Mexxer-2 uselessly given me a negative trust, even though I have clearly added, invest at your risk, isnt that just misusing your powers ( he says he is on DT-3 )

Good for him, you deserve it, promoting that shit.
He strongly believes you are shilling for money by advertising a scam and doesn't trust you because of that, so why shouldn't he say so?
It doesn't matter if he's on DT1 or DT101.
Putting "Invest at your own risk" means nothing, apart from confirming that you realise it's a scam in the first place.



Two ninja edits, don't want to be accused of posting for my sig campaign. Smiley

If a say "a ponzi is a game" I say it because it is a game.
This does not mean that it is a honnest game or a fair game.
I plaid ponzi in the past...
Now I only invest in "things" which only "could be ponzi" (because often you can not know if they are ponzi)
Often people know that they invest in ponzi...


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December 05, 2015, 06:00:12 PM
 #138


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.

The sub forum was made to gather all ponzi scams in one place so people know that those ''games'' there are definitely ponzi and if someone tries to promote a ponzi somewhere else the thread will get moved to the investor based games. There is no way to stop ponzies from showing up, if mods deleted them people would just promote them without telling people they are ponzies so we would actually create more scams.
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December 05, 2015, 06:10:41 PM
 #139


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.

The sub forum was made to gather all ponzi scams in one place so people know that those ''games'' there are definitely ponzi and if someone tries to promote a ponzi somewhere else the thread will get moved to the investor based games. There is no way to stop ponzies from showing up, if mods deleted them people would just promote them without telling people they are ponzies so we would actually create more scams.

People here are so paranoďack that they see ponsi even there where no ponzi are...

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December 05, 2015, 06:20:22 PM
 #140


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.

The sub forum was made to gather all ponzi scams in one place so people know that those ''games'' there are definitely ponzi and if someone tries to promote a ponzi somewhere else the thread will get moved to the investor based games. There is no way to stop ponzies from showing up, if mods deleted them people would just promote them without telling people they are ponzies so we would actually create more scams.

For the time being, I'll overlook the likelihood of you posting just for the sake of getting a few satoshi from your 'provably fair casino' sig, and explain to you why every forum on the internet doesn't have a subforum dedicated to ponzis, illegal gambling, or selling shitty drugs, rusty AKs and child porn.
You ready?
Here we go:
Because, surprisingly, yes, yes, you can stop those things. In fact, it is the duty of the forum operator to stop such things.
Even 4chan stops such things, why can't thermos?

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December 05, 2015, 09:26:19 PM
 #141


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.

The sub forum was made to gather all ponzi scams in one place so people know that those ''games'' there are definitely ponzi and if someone tries to promote a ponzi somewhere else the thread will get moved to the investor based games. There is no way to stop ponzies from showing up, if mods deleted them people would just promote them without telling people they are ponzies so we would actually create more scams.

For the time being, I'll overlook the likelihood of you posting just for the sake of getting a few satoshi from your 'provably fair casino' sig, and explain to you why every forum on the internet doesn't have a subforum dedicated to ponzis, illegal gambling, or selling shitty drugs, rusty AKs and child porn.
You ready?
Here we go:
Because, surprisingly, yes, yes, you can stop those things. In fact, it is the duty of the forum operator to stop such things.
Even 4chan stops such things, why can't thermos?



I will explain you something, theymos is the owner and he can do whatever the fuck he wants and if you don't agree you can leave, no one is forcing you to stay here. Maybe other forums do not have a sub forum dedicated to ponzis BUT I'm sure they have people promoting ponzis secretly trying to make them look legit, how is the admin supposed to stop those ponzis? You can't until you know for sure it's a ponzi, instead with the sub forum, ponzi operators come clean and just by posting their site, system, there they are admiting it's a ponzi, people know the risks.

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December 05, 2015, 09:54:50 PM
 #142


I will explain you something, theymos is the owner and he can do whatever the fuck he wants and if you don't agree you can leave, no one is forcing you to stay here.


correct

You can't until you know for sure it's a ponzi, instead with the sub forum, ponzi operators come clean and just by posting their site, system, there they are admiting it's a ponzi, people know the risks.

OP was originally about sigads.
i do like that ponzis have their own section but this is not true for sigads.

so i'd like to see something like a trust rating for sigads (eg a link redirect where you see the trust rating of the link before you'll get redirect there or a rule that sig-links are only allowed to start with http://bitcointalk.org)

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December 05, 2015, 10:22:04 PM
 #143


Scams are not moderated, the section was put in place after the ponzis made the rest of the gambling section useless.

Edit:
The rule(s) for a sub section are essentially "have enough threads/posts to make it a dominant topic in an existing section". E.g. blockchain.info might get a seperate section if the support posts are too much for the service discussion section.

Might "8ball of Meth and Rusty AK47 Gift Set" get a separate section if the support posts are too much for the goods section?

If not, why Huh

...I think Investor based is a useful sub forum. ...
As useful as any ghetto, i suppose. The problem's the public face of Bitcoin is now a ghetto.
Grills are laughing.

The sub forum was made to gather all ponzi scams in one place so people know that those ''games'' there are definitely ponzi and if someone tries to promote a ponzi somewhere else the thread will get moved to the investor based games. There is no way to stop ponzies from showing up, if mods deleted them people would just promote them without telling people they are ponzies so we would actually create more scams.

For the time being, I'll overlook the likelihood of you posting just for the sake of getting a few satoshi from your 'provably fair casino' sig, and explain to you why every forum on the internet doesn't have a subforum dedicated to ponzis, illegal gambling, or selling shitty drugs, rusty AKs and child porn.
You ready?
Here we go:
Because, surprisingly, yes, yes, you can stop those things. In fact, it is the duty of the forum operator to stop such things.
Even 4chan stops such things, why can't thermos?



I will explain you something, theymos is the owner <snip>

Not this again.
Thermos is not the owner, he doesn't even claim to be. He is no more the owner of bitcointalk than Stalin was the owner of Russia or Hitler was the owner of Germany.
Stop parroting shit you've heard other say & spreading misinformation.
If still not clear:
Shit came together in such a way as to enable thermos to control bitcointalk, Stalin to control Russia, and Hitler to control Germany. This doesn't make any of them "owners."
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December 06, 2015, 02:40:40 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2015, 06:23:09 PM by InvoKing
 #144

Not this again.
Thermos is not the owner, he doesn't even claim to be. He is no more the owner of bitcointalk than Stalin was the owner of Russia or Hitler was the owner of Germany.
Stop parroting shit you've heard other say & spreading misinformation.
If still not clear:
Shit came together in such a way as to enable thermos to control bitcointalk, Stalin to control Russia, and Hitler to control Germany. This doesn't make any of them "owners."

I don't understand what is the problem that some users have with theymos. No one forced you to like him nor the way bitcointalk works nor to post in r/bitcoin, just create your owns and share the ideas that you like between you Smiley
Back to the topic, i voted yes if the guy is fully aware and got a warning before the NT.

Edit:
What does my liking/disliking thermos have to do with him not being the owner of this forum?
Do you read before typing, or are the few satoshis you make from posting just too sweet?
I have a lollipop (bought from the satoshi i made in the sig campaign, maybe?) that I planned to give to fw... but for some reasons i changed my mind... Wanna take it son? It is free.
Btw if you focus on my words again you will notice that ''you'' refer to ''some users'' mentioned above not specifically to you son.

 
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December 06, 2015, 08:50:35 AM
 #145

You can give them a negative trust. But 6 weeks after they remove the signature, you should remove the negative rating.

 
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December 06, 2015, 10:25:44 AM
 #146

You can give them a negative trust. But 6 weeks after they remove the signature, you should remove the negative rating.

Why 6 weeks?
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December 06, 2015, 11:07:50 AM
 #147

Quote
Should people who promote ponzis in their signature be given a negative trust?
No.

Quote
March 01, 2011, 02:02:27 AM Silk Road: anonymous marketplace. Feedback requested Smiley

This topic was briefly removed due to the "illegal trading" policy, but I decided that since you're not actually selling drugs in this thread, it's OK. (Maybe some other moderator/admin will disagree with my later decision, though.) Sorry about that.
I remember when silk Road Poped Out as it was known that it is not good to ecosystem according to Law still Theymos let the Thread of Silk Road here , all reason was that the site was not selling any kind of drugs or weapons or Hiring assassinates here on this forum but they were doing that via external site , this forum let that site flourish until enforced by Law with caution under it.

---snip--- The only solution is for Web users to be constantly vigilant.
another way to feel the situation is Bluefilms , they are illegal and are a matter of shame if you watch it in front of your Parents or family , but do you quit it , even blue film sites have a caution before it let users enter it.
All i know people have to use their conscience to determine.
anyways if a DT member feel it other way and takes it to his words , then he might give a negative trust to the user wearing the signature , i think older DT members who have been here since old days wont do it because they know the inner(whats going on).

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