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Author Topic: Setting up your own trust list  (Read 1113 times)
SebastianJu
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September 18, 2015, 08:33:59 PM
 #1

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it. When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone. Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust? If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.
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September 18, 2015, 08:37:15 PM
 #2

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it. When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone. Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust? If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.
U are on default trust, so u are on everyone his/her unedited default list, but if u trust for example vod, who is not in depth 1, u can modify your personal trust list and add vod to depth 1. That is not visible for us.

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SebastianJu
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September 18, 2015, 08:48:25 PM
 #3

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it. When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone. Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust? If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.
U are on default trust, so u are on everyone his/her unedited default list, but if u trust for example vod, who is not in depth 1, u can modify your personal trust list and add vod to depth 1. That is not visible for us.

BWC

Default Trust ist Level 1? Only theymos is level 0?

Though when i set people on trust levels like 1 or so, then this means i will see their ratings the same way like i will see the ratings of everyone on default trust.

But what i wonder, when i set people on higher trust levels, does it matter to others does it matter only to me who is seeing the trust ratings those persons gave with higher importance than before?
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September 18, 2015, 08:52:37 PM
 #4

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust
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List the users who you trust to have good trust ratings and good trust lists, one user per line. Prefix a user's name with a tilde (~) if you want to exclude them from your trust network.

Your own trust list = Depth 0. AFAIK, you either "trust" or "do not trust." Everyone else is not trusted by default.

If you add someone to your list, their ratings become "trusted" (and so do those on their trust list -- down to Depth 2?)

If you remove someone from your list, their ratings go to "untrusted" even if they are on DefaultTrust.

SebastianJu, if you are on someone's trusted list (Depth 0), then your trust list affects theirs. If you are on DefaultTrust at Depth 1, same goes. If you are on DefaultTrust at Depth 2, I believe there is no effect on trust lists, but ratings show as "trusted" (assuming DefaultTrust is trusted, of course).

Quote from: Gavin Andresen
I woulda thunk you were old enough to be confident that technology DOES improve. In fits and starts, but over the long term it definitely gets better.
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September 18, 2015, 09:04:55 PM
 #5

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I can give it a shot.

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it.

Profile -> Trust -> Trust Settings -> Hierarchical view (at the bottom) -> search for your name -> turns out you are escrow.ms's list.

When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone.

Yes and it influences their overal trust score, unless someone explicitly removed you or escrow.ms from their list.

Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

No.

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust?

Depends. The default depth is level 2 thus only those on level 1 can add people to the trust network as most people will see it.

If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

Level 0 for you is your personal list, its those that you put on your list. By default thats only the user "DefaultTrust". Level 4 is only considered trusted if you change the settings accordingly.

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.

For others? None.
For you, depends on the changes. Increasing the level will add a high amount of people. Adding people to the list while keeping the depth on level 2 will not only set those people (lvl 0) on the list, but also those on their list (lvl1) and those (lvl2) on the list of those (lvl1) on the list of the person (lvl0) you added to your list.

-snip-
Default Trust ist Level 1? Only theymos is level 0?

Theymos is on level 1. DefaultTrust is on 0

Though when i set people on trust levels like 1 or so, then this means i will see their ratings the same way like i will see the ratings of everyone on default trust.

But what i wonder, when i set people on higher trust levels, does it matter to others does it matter only to me who is seeing the trust ratings those persons gave with higher importance than before?

You can not set people on a specific level. You can set people on your list or explicitly remove people from your list (e.g. ~shorena will remove all my ratings no matter why I show up in your personal trust network). You can also set the depth, but its the same for everyone on your list.

As long as you are not on the trust list of the account "DefaultTrust" and thus end up on most peoples list on level 1 your personal list does not matter for most other people. The exception are those that increased the depth.

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September 18, 2015, 10:06:43 PM
 #6

So when i understand it correctly, it's already late Tongue, then me adding users i trust on a high level manually will only affect my view of the forums ratings. In the worst view i will see different ratings than others on the forum see, because i get the ratings of those i added and maybe those they added on their lists.

But i can't give others, that i add to my list, no power in any way that is seeable for other normal forum members?

Sounds relatively useless then if true. If you trust the ratings of default trust members and you don't need the ratings from other peoples then you have no advantage of adding someone. It would only make a difference to you, not for normal forum members.

Hm, i don't see why i should use this. If i trust someone i would have given him a trust rating already. That can be seen by others at least too.
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September 18, 2015, 10:15:41 PM
 #7

But i can't give others, that i add to my list, no power in any way that is seeable for other normal forum members?

yes.
as you are on depth 2, whoever you added to your list will be added to depth 3 DT.
only people that set their trust depth to 3 or 4 will be affected. but not a lot of people do that.

lurking.
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September 18, 2015, 10:16:12 PM
 #8

Hm, i don't see why i should use this. If i trust someone i would have given him a trust rating already. That can be seen by others at least too.

The reason it is useful is that if someone is previously untrusted, trusting them 1) puts their ratings into "trusted feedback" and 2) puts their trusted list into "trusted feedback."

For example, after the Quickseller fiasco, I added tspacepilot and tmfp to my trust list, because they exercise good judgment. I removed Wardrick because he seems either irrational or unable to secure his account.

It sounds like you are coming from the perspective of someone on DT who is thinking about what other people see. For most people, the important thing here is manipulating their own trust list to affect what they see. For example, by removing DT users whose opinion cannot be trusted. Or by adding non-DT users whose opinion they do trust.

Quote from: Gavin Andresen
I woulda thunk you were old enough to be confident that technology DOES improve. In fits and starts, but over the long term it definitely gets better.
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September 18, 2015, 10:34:11 PM
 #9

Some links that I have

Why do some users have green text in their trust and others (like me) have not? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1174606.0

I have a proposal to vary the trust system that is used here. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1183190.0

Paying for Negative Trust {0.001 BTC}  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1174480.0

I've misplaced the actual discussions on Trust (which was cough upgraded about two months ago and people cough splutter like it, it seems.

If you remove the word DefaultTrust from your list of trusted, then only those you have given good or bad trust to will show up that way...

(put a tilda in front of DefaultTrust ie ~DefaultTrust and see what happens...) You can change those settings back and forth and only you will see the end results.

I 'm still unsure how a person gets on the DT... (had recent events not occurred, I would have said something flip just then about having had the DT's at times, but I digress) ... but be very very careful how you hand out trust, especially negative trust for it shall comeback to bight you ... hard. Really, really hard.

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September 18, 2015, 10:39:10 PM
 #10

I've misplaced the actual discussions on Trust (which was cough upgraded about two months ago and people cough splutter like it, it seems.

this and this? also do you need a doctor?

lurking.
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September 18, 2015, 10:46:09 PM
 #11

Hey thanks, those are indeed the droids links I've been looking for.

I've misplaced the actual discussions on Trust (which was cough upgraded about two months ago and people cough splutter like it, it seems.

this and this? also do you need a doctor?

Nah, when I play Doctor's and Nurses, I like to make house calls.  Grin

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September 18, 2015, 11:40:58 PM
 #12

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it. When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone. Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust? If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.
U are on default trust, so u are on everyone his/her unedited default list, but if u trust for example vod, who is not in depth 1, u can modify your personal trust list and add vod to depth 1. That is not visible for us.

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September 18, 2015, 11:54:11 PM
 #13

A newbie teaching a legendary members about forum. Cheesy

A newbie in Meta is not a newbie. Wink

Quote from: Gavin Andresen
I woulda thunk you were old enough to be confident that technology DOES improve. In fits and starts, but over the long term it definitely gets better.
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September 19, 2015, 11:35:46 AM
 #14

But i can't give others, that i add to my list, no power in any way that is seeable for other normal forum members?

yes.
as you are on depth 2, whoever you added to your list will be added to depth 3 DT.
only people that set their trust depth to 3 or 4 will be affected. but not a lot of people do that.

Oh, i only was wondering now. The form looks like a textbox where is written "DefaultTrust". Beneath there is "Trust Depth (max 4). I only now got the idea that these two boxes are not used like "Set user x on trust depth 2" but that the second option is only meant to change which level of users i trust.

Ok, so i can not decide in which level beneath me i set a user. I only can add or exclude users from a single trust list i have. Is that right? So i should let it stay at trust depth 2.
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September 19, 2015, 11:41:53 AM
 #15

Hm, i don't see why i should use this. If i trust someone i would have given him a trust rating already. That can be seen by others at least too.

The reason it is useful is that if someone is previously untrusted, trusting them 1) puts their ratings into "trusted feedback" and 2) puts their trusted list into "trusted feedback."

For example, after the Quickseller fiasco, I added tspacepilot and tmfp to my trust list, because they exercise good judgment. I removed Wardrick because he seems either irrational or unable to secure his account.

It sounds like you are coming from the perspective of someone on DT who is thinking about what other people see. For most people, the important thing here is manipulating their own trust list to affect what they see. For example, by removing DT users whose opinion cannot be trusted. Or by adding non-DT users whose opinion they do trust.

I know what you mean but i already wrote tspacepilot that i think that system would not work on bitcointalk because way way too few people would add people to their list. and in fact i think the users on default trust are a relatively good indicator for bad things happening. If i would add some users i trust then it would not make a big difference for the trust i see.

I know where tspace is coming from but i think a default trust free trust system would enable a lot more scams. That's why i think default trust is good.

But i wonder if i should create such a list just in case theymos would think about adding me on trust depth 1. Maybe it only makes sense for him then.
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September 19, 2015, 12:02:36 PM
 #16

I also wonder, on what basis is formed on particular  the order of priority in "Hierarchical view" ? account range?
or by his position in depth level?

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September 19, 2015, 12:28:13 PM
 #17

I also wonder, on what basis is formed on particular  the order of priority in "Hierarchical view" ? account range?
or by his position in depth level?

As far as i understand it momentarely it is always only that everyone you trust is under you. Since the default trust list contains everyone who is trusted by theymos directly and contains those who are trusted by those who are trusted by theymos Tongue all people in default trust are automatically users you trust under you.
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September 19, 2015, 01:05:29 PM
 #18

I also wonder, on what basis is formed on particular  the order of priority in "Hierarchical view" ? account range?
or by his position in depth level?

As far as i understand it momentarely it is always only that everyone you trust is under you. Since the default trust list contains everyone who is trusted by theymos directly and contains those who are trusted by those who are trusted by theymos Tongue all people in default trust are automatically users you trust under you.
Yes, but I was asking a little bit of another, if I add  someone in your trust list ,the system automatically puts to a certain place in list("Hierarchical view" from top to bottom), but what are the criteria? I check it's not by alphabetically, not by range and not by trust level.
edit:
seems to be  by activity point, Correct if wrong.

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September 19, 2015, 05:19:18 PM
 #19

Shorena is incredibly knowledgable about this forum, but I thin khis answer could be improved with just a few notes.

I searched for a topic that explains this but i didn't find anything. So can someone explain how the trust settings work?

I can give it a shot.

I know i'm on default trust, i'm not sure who sat me on it.

Profile -> Trust -> Trust Settings -> Hierarchical view (at the bottom) -> search for your name -> turns out you are escrow.ms's list.

Here I just want to clarify that you are not on "default trust" you're on the trust list of someone on default trust.  People often call this default trust level 2. It's kinda like being on the default trust list because the defaut settings have people's trust lists set to depth=2.  Anyway, the term "default trust" gets used in more than one sense so I thought I'd try to clarify that.  There's the account "DefaultTrust" which is trusted by default in peoples trust settings.  There's the depth=2, which is also a default setting.  That leads to the notion of "being on default trust" being someone ambiguous, sometimes people use it to mean that your trust ratings appear by default on a newbie account as "trusted feedback" (ie, level 1 and level 2).  Other times people use it to mean that you're trusted directly by the DefaultTrust account (which is sometimes called level 1).

Quote
When i rate someone then this rating is visible for everyone.

Yes and it influences their overal trust score, unless someone explicitly removed you or escrow.ms from their list.

All ratings are always visible for everyone.  But users can decide whether a particular rating is "trusted" or "untrusted" based on their trust lists.  Being on the trust list of someone trusted by default trust (ie, being on default trust level 2) means that your ratings are shown as "trusted" for all users who have not changed anything about their trust settings.  There's really no such thing as "overall score" which is universally available.  Each person sees the trust score of an individual based on who's on their trust list and what depth it's set at.

Quote
Does my rating change the trust lists i have?

No.

Then, in trust settings you see a list with depths and names. And you can enter usernames with a trust depth level.

So can i set someone on default trust when iam on default trust?

Depends. The default depth is level 2 thus only those on level 1 can add people to the trust network as most people will see it.

Right.  But I use depth 3 (for now) and so if you add people to your trust list, I will see the ratings of the people you have added in the "trusted feedback" section and those ratings will count towards the trust scores I see under people names.  Also, if someone adds you directly to their trust list and keeps depth 2 then those people will also see the ratings of those you have added in their "trusted feedback" section.

Quote
If not, is when i set someone on level 0 default trust that this person is most trusted? Level 4 is trusted?

Level 0 for you is your personal list, its those that you put on your list. By default thats only the user "DefaultTrust". Level 4 is only considered trusted if you change the settings accordingly.

I would like to know what the consequences would be when i play around with these settings.

For others? None.
For you, depends on the changes. Increasing the level will add a high amount of people. Adding people to the list while keeping the depth on level 2 will not only set those people (lvl 0) on the list, but also those on their list (lvl1) and those (lvl2) on the list of those (lvl1) on the list of the person (lvl0) you added to your list.

-snip-
Default Trust ist Level 1? Only theymos is level 0?

Theymos is on level 1. DefaultTrust is on 0

Though when i set people on trust levels like 1 or so, then this means i will see their ratings the same way like i will see the ratings of everyone on default trust.

But what i wonder, when i set people on higher trust levels, does it matter to others does it matter only to me who is seeing the trust ratings those persons gave with higher importance than before?

You can not set people on a specific level. You can set people on your list or explicitly remove people from your list (e.g. ~shorena will remove all my ratings no matter why I show up in your personal trust network). You can also set the depth, but its the same for everyone on your list.

As long as you are not on the trust list of the account "DefaultTrust" and thus end up on most peoples list on level 1 your personal list does not matter for most other people. The exception are those that increased the depth.

Right, but I believe this is very problematic.  SebJu is doing the forum a favor (one which everyone should do) by looking into his trust settings and adding and removing people from his trust list based on his experiences with those people.  People who are not on default trust level 1 (in my opinion) definitely should be making individual trust lists so that when someone adds them to their trust list they're not just getting a cycle on defaulttrust.

Imagine, if I decide that I trust Shorena and add him to my trust list and it turns out that he doesn't have anyone in his trust list except DefaultTrust then all I've done is add a cycle to my trust network (assuming I already trusted defaulttrust).  If Shorena take the time to build a trust list of people based on his experiences with those people, then, by trusting him, I actually get an enriched network.

I hope this helps.

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September 19, 2015, 07:45:18 PM
 #20

Hm, i don't see why i should use this. If i trust someone i would have given him a trust rating already. That can be seen by others at least too.

The reason it is useful is that if someone is previously untrusted, trusting them 1) puts their ratings into "trusted feedback" and 2) puts their trusted list into "trusted feedback."

For example, after the Quickseller fiasco, I added tspacepilot and tmfp to my trust list, because they exercise good judgment. I removed Wardrick because he seems either irrational or unable to secure his account.

It sounds like you are coming from the perspective of someone on DT who is thinking about what other people see. For most people, the important thing here is manipulating their own trust list to affect what they see. For example, by removing DT users whose opinion cannot be trusted. Or by adding non-DT users whose opinion they do trust.

I know what you mean but i already wrote tspacepilot that i think that system would not work on bitcointalk because way way too few people would add people to their list. and in fact i think the users on default trust are a relatively good indicator for bad things happening. If i would add some users i trust then it would not make a big difference for the trust i see.

I know where tspace is coming from but i think a default trust free trust system would enable a lot more scams. That's why i think default trust is good.

I still have DefaultTrust in my trust list, because my list is not robust enough to stand on its own. But I have added a handful of people (who are not on DT) and removed a handful of people (who are on DT). Eventually I imagine I would remove DefaultTrust entirely.

Quote from: Gavin Andresen
I woulda thunk you were old enough to be confident that technology DOES improve. In fits and starts, but over the long term it definitely gets better.
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