|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"There should not be any signed int. If you've found a signed int
somewhere, please tell me (within the next 25 years please) and I'll
change it to unsigned int." -- Satoshi
|
|
|
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
|
|
coinpr0n
|
 |
September 21, 2015, 05:12:53 PM |
|
Isn't that the definition of arbitrage? Obviously you must be funded on both exchanges and cannot be transfering between them using the Bitcoin blockchain as that exposes you to too much risk.
|
|
|
|
|
PolarPoint
|
|
September 21, 2015, 05:42:52 PM |
|
That is arbitrage for people who has enough money and bitcoin to fund both transactions without transferring between the exchanges. It's not new. Bear in mind that this way, trader is exposed to double the risk of exchange "hacking".
|
|
|
|
|
|
ikydesu
|
|
September 21, 2015, 08:32:36 PM |
|
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArbitrageThere's another way to arbitrage with bitcoin?
In this link I see that they are doing somthing like buying BTC in cheap exch and sell BTC to USD in another, when price correlate, sell BTC to USD and buy BTC in the other, without doing transfers between exchanges, someone tried it or it is possible?
-snip-
You need to transfer the fund, if you want earn profit, because basically, you buy on cheap exchange rate and sell on exchange which have high rate.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mickeyb
|
|
September 21, 2015, 08:36:28 PM |
|
That is arbitrage for people who has enough money and bitcoin to fund both transactions without transferring between the exchanges. It's not new. Bear in mind that this way, trader is exposed to double the risk of exchange "hacking".
Exactly this! To use this method you have to keep both Fiat and bitcoins on each exchange where you are doing an arbitrage. That's way too much of the risk associated. It's very hard doing successful arbitrage with Bitcoin exchanges because bits are the kings in this kind of business. And bots are currently everywhere! |
|
|
|
|
pandacoin
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1000
|
|
September 21, 2015, 08:45:35 PM |
|
If you HODL both money & bitcoins on the exchanges, then yes you can do the fastest arbitrage.
For instance; you've 500$ + 2 BTC.
1 BTC + 250$ on exchange 1
1 BTC + 250$ on exchange 2.
Exchange 1's price: 230$, then buy. Exchange 2's price 260$ then sell on Exchange 2.
Now You've did the arbitrage, now you need to swap those money. Bitcoin is easy but cash? You may wait to do that.
|
|
|
|
|
MisterMoney
Member
Offline
Activity: 65
Merit: 10
|
|
September 22, 2015, 03:40:57 AM |
|
In order to save the transferring payment fee by this way? |
|
|
|
|
|
UfoRia
|
|
September 22, 2015, 04:22:20 AM |
|
Arbitrage is straightforward, simply try to have vps hosting in the same datacenters as the exchanges or close if private co-lo. I worked on a flash trading system that followed whale public keys that we could source, but I found it easier to simply use basic arbitrage between exchanges and avoid fiat unless absolutely necessary (profitable). Once you hit 25-100 btc, transfer to a new wallet address and refund your exchange accounts using a new address. Never keep more then 5-10 btc in each exchange when turning on the next arbitrage run. We built our system using erlang so it could track currency rates as a concurrent flow. We would fiat out our coins if the swing rate was greater than a 3% difference minus fees.
We prefer channel surfing in the $210-250 range, but yymv.
Ufo loves API's
|
If I have been a help, my BTC donation address -> 1GUEqAzbMvwkY7hbb6bauhY6AkVoCSXDkp
|
|
|
|
UfoRia
|
|
September 22, 2015, 11:36:57 PM |
|
If you HODL both money & bitcoins on the exchanges, then yes you can do the fastest arbitrage.
For instance; you've 500$ + 2 BTC.
1 BTC + 250$ on exchange 1
1 BTC + 250$ on exchange 2.
Exchange 1's price: 230$, then buy. Exchange 2's price 260$ then sell on Exchange 2.
Now You've did the arbitrage, now you need to swap those money. Bitcoin is easy but cash? You may wait to do that.
Unless I can make a profit of 2.5-3% on fiat monetary conversions minus fees, it's too much trouble on small amounts of coins imo. If you have 25-100 btc and the swing between USD and let's say the EURO has a 2% difference, it may be worth the process. Constantly doing things such as this automatically will make you look like a day trader / flash trading system and you will need some form of "legal authority/license" to do so. Disclaimer: IANAL, so consult your local commodity/stock trading laws and the laws of your state, country and the laws of all exchanges in other countries if you do cross exchange arbitrage/trading. If you make small amounts of coins, it's not an issue, but if it gets profitable hire a tax attorney and incorporate. I am not an expert on the legality of international commerce/trading, so treat this as some random person on the internet giving advice.  Ufo |
If I have been a help, my BTC donation address -> 1GUEqAzbMvwkY7hbb6bauhY6AkVoCSXDkp
|
|
|
|
Sourgummies
|
|
September 22, 2015, 11:55:03 PM |
|
The key is having enough money and not getting caught paying fees transfering around to take advantage of differences.
Its pretty much the same principle as being your own stock trader,most people are unsuccessful as it equates to gambling without the proper knowledge base.
Good luck,that type of stuff is to over my head to get involved with and I hope you make some money doing this.
|
|
|
|
|
katana
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
|
|
September 23, 2015, 03:58:27 AM |
|
It is impossible. One exchange offers the trading of BTC, USD pair. You can use dollar buy BTC , or use BTC to buy dollar. How could you do the arbitrage in one exchange? Except you buy at a price, then wait for a while and sell out if the price increases later. It is just trading btcusd pair. |
|
|
|
|
Pursuer
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1638
Merit: 1163
Where is my ring of blades...
|
|
September 23, 2015, 04:32:19 AM |
|
Arbitrage is straightforward, simply try to have vps hosting in the same datacenters as the exchanges or close if private co-lo. I worked on a flash trading system that followed whale public keys that we could source, but I found it easier to simply use basic arbitrage between exchanges and avoid fiat unless absolutely necessary (profitable). Once you hit 25-100 btc, transfer to a new wallet address and refund your exchange accounts using a new address. Never keep more then 5-10 btc in each exchange when turning on the next arbitrage run. We built our system using erlang so it could track currency rates as a concurrent flow. We would fiat out our coins if the swing rate was greater than a 3% difference minus fees.
We prefer channel surfing in the $210-250 range, but yymv.
Ufo loves API's
is arbitrage trading profitable anymore in these days? because I remember that whenever It came to arbitrage trading like a new topic for example that I saw in the speculation section, everybody was saying it is not doable or even profitable anymore, blah blah. this is the first topic that I have seen that is not completely negative. |
Only Bitcoin
|
|
|
calamar182 (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
|
|
September 23, 2015, 08:03:55 AM |
|
Sorry I don't understand nothing, it seems theres a lot of stuff but not clarify anything.
What the hell is cross exchange arbitrage? how the hell it can work if you are exposed to market movements, you are not hedge in this shit! its absurd?
Theorically the best way is but in cheaper and sell margin in higher (bitfinex) for example, and wait, no??? Oh come on I will do it individually because nobody can help me and specify the way to do it
|
|
|
|
|
koelen3
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1007
Sooner or later, a man who wears two faces forgets
|
|
September 23, 2015, 10:07:58 AM |
|
It's all about timing , you can make good with arbitrage...
|
|
|
|
|
calamar182 (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
|
|
September 28, 2015, 10:54:24 AM |
|
One thing please, why people don't buy in btce lower echange and transfer and sell to BTCHINA or OKCOIN? the diferrence is 5% arbitrage oportunity? anyone tried it?
I need to know how much time takes to transfer BTC to another exchange, because that will create loses,
|
|
|
|
|
|
edric
|
|
September 28, 2015, 12:04:11 PM |
|
In theory it is possible. He makes the obvious point though. All of your cash ends up on the exchange where bitcoins sell higher and all of your bitcoin ends up on exchanges where bitcoin sells for less cash. However, it could technically work if you had enough liquidity to start out so that you made enough profit that when you closed out your profits eventually, it wasn't that big of a hit. |
|
|
|
|
edric
|
|
September 28, 2015, 12:05:48 PM |
|
Sorry I don't understand nothing, it seems theres a lot of stuff but not clarify anything.
What the hell is cross exchange arbitrage? how the hell it can work if you are exposed to market movements, you are not hedge in this shit! its absurd?
Theorically the best way is but in cheaper and sell margin in higher (bitfinex) for example, and wait, no??? Oh come on I will do it individually because nobody can help me and specify the way to do it
You always keep your book balanced with cash and BTC. If you buy BTC on one exchange, you sell on the other an equal amount. Therefore, you never have any exchange rate risk. The only time you lose money is when you first fund your accounts, pay trading fees, and when you liquidate your accounts. This is assuming you never have an unequal amount of BTC / USD. |
|
|
|
calamar182 (OP)
Newbie
Offline
Activity: 58
Merit: 0
|
|
September 28, 2015, 02:31:14 PM |
|
Sorry I don't understand nothing, it seems theres a lot of stuff but not clarify anything.
What the hell is cross exchange arbitrage? how the hell it can work if you are exposed to market movements, you are not hedge in this shit! its absurd?
Theorically the best way is but in cheaper and sell margin in higher (bitfinex) for example, and wait, no??? Oh come on I will do it individually because nobody can help me and specify the way to do it
You always keep your book balanced with cash and BTC. If you buy BTC on one exchange, you sell on the other an equal amount. Therefore, you never have any exchange rate risk. The only time you lose money is when you first fund your accounts, pay trading fees, and when you liquidate your accounts. This is assuming you never have an unequal amount of BTC / USD. That's imposible, If i do that Im only buying bitcoins in A, and selling bitcoins in B to dollars, Im wining a % arbitrage oportunities but im exposed to bitcoin price changing continuosly, If you mean SELL margin like selling short in CFD or fx then yes, the only risk are the fees and etc etc, |
|
|
|
|
cellard
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1250
|
|
September 28, 2015, 02:49:00 PM |
|
The problem with doing this is the fact Bitcoin price moves so much it's impossible to predict what will happen while you move funds from exchange A to exchange B. You will need higher fees to speed up the prices so at the end of the day you may end up losing money.
|
|
|
|
|
achow101
Staff
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 3374
Merit: 6535
Just writing some code
|
|
September 28, 2015, 07:31:16 PM |
|
One thing please, why people don't buy in btce lower echange and transfer and sell to BTCHINA or OKCOIN? the diferrence is 5% arbitrage oportunity? anyone tried it?
I need to know how much time takes to transfer BTC to another exchange, because that will create loses,
Withdrawing Bitcoin from one exchange to another will take on average 30 minutes. AFAIK exchanges will only credit a deposit to your account after 3 confirmations, which takes on average 30 minutes. It can actually take anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour in order to get 3 confirmations, in which time the price could vary widely and thus you lose money. Transferring fiat will take even longer. It takes 1 -2 business days for a fiat withdrawal to your bank account, and another 1-2 days to deposit that into another exchange, thus losing even more money. |
|
|
|
|
maokoto
|
|
September 28, 2015, 09:59:57 PM |
|
I do not think that arbitrage might be possible if you move funds. As some other fellow posters say, you have to fund both accounts.
|
|
|
|
Gleb Gamow
In memoriam
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
|
|
September 29, 2015, 03:58:40 AM |
|
I do not think that arbitrage might be possible if you move funds. As some other fellow posters say, you have to fund both accounts.
Just do what the big boys do donning big boys' pants: Personally own at least two exchanges making sure that no one's the wiser. Now, you'll have plenty of time to transfer funds between exchanges if such action is warranted. With this route, you could operate the exchanges virtually legitimately, earning your keep via arbitrage AND the exchange fees. |
|
|
|
|
|
Q7
|
|
September 29, 2015, 11:47:31 AM |
|
While the method works, there are a few considerations. First of all, to take advantage of small spread to make decent income you will need a lot of fund. Second, since the fund needs to be readily available at all times, the money will need to park there and you have tons of fund getting tied up at the exchangers. Third, you will need to be constantly monitor the price movement because these thing can shift very fast as there are also other traders keeping watch of the movement to take advantage, not only you. Unless you can find a bot to trigger you.
I'm not disputing whether the method works or not but obviously these obstacles have to be overcomed.
|
|
|
|
Gleb Gamow
In memoriam
VIP
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
|
|
September 29, 2015, 06:17:49 PM |
|
While the method works, there are a few considerations. First of all, to take advantage of small spread to make decent income you will need a lot of fund. Second, since the fund needs to be readily available at all times, the money will need to park there and you have tons of fund getting tied up at the exchangers. Third, you will need to be constantly monitor the price movement because these thing can shift very fast as there are also other traders keeping watch of the movement to take advantage, not only you. Unless you can find a bot to trigger you.
I'm not disputing whether the method works or not but obviously these obstacles have to be overcomed.
Easily overcome via bots on both exchanges you own that'll trigger when the preset parameters are reached. |
|
|
|
|
|
