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Author Topic: 21 co introducing bitcoin [mining+] computer for $399.99 (unofficial thread)  (Read 4834 times)
Biodom
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September 21, 2015, 10:25:26 PM
 #21

21 has a bunch of positions listed on Angel.Co:

https://angel.co/21/jobs

They claim to have developed a chip that can be put into any internet connected device.  The RPi computer aside, it would interesting to see what they can do with their chip, and whether you start seeing mainstream point of sale systems with integrated bitcoin hardware/software.

-Fuse
If it is their same chip in this miner 125gh in a lightbulb or other devices seems pretty damn nice actually, I may be doing the math wrong but 125gh/s would be 20w right?

My bet is that the .16J/GH is at 50GH, and not 120GH. That works out to 8W which is interesting and within striking distance of a USB port that's can supply almost 2Amps. Push it to 120GH, and you are no longer in USB territory.

20 light bulbs (say, each $15, 20w=125Gh for mining, rest for light)=2.5TH, then it all converges through wi-fi on this device and you've got 2.5-2.6Th for $700 and only 416-420W used for mining.  
Edited: 20w for lamp, resulting in slightly different power numbers.
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notlist3d
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September 21, 2015, 10:28:57 PM
 #22

21 has a bunch of positions listed on Angel.Co:

https://angel.co/21/jobs

They claim to have developed a chip that can be put into any internet connected device.  The RPi computer aside, it would interesting to see what they can do with their chip, and whether you start seeing mainstream point of sale systems with integrated bitcoin hardware/software.

-Fuse

If they can do it on any internet connected device they do not impress with RPI.  RPI has already done a lot with mining so it's nothing new there.  Could have went a lot more of a finished product.

Have they made any public statements that they will or will not sell bigger miners to public?
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September 21, 2015, 10:29:14 PM
 #23

21 has a bunch of positions listed on Angel.Co:

https://angel.co/21/jobs

They claim to have developed a chip that can be put into any internet connected device.  The RPi computer aside, it would interesting to see what they can do with their chip, and whether you start seeing mainstream point of sale systems with integrated bitcoin hardware/software.

-Fuse
If it is their same chip in this miner 125gh in a lightbulb or other devices seems pretty damn nice actually, I may be doing the math wrong but 125gh/s would be 20w right?

My bet is that the .16J/GH is at 50GH, and not 120GH. That works out to 8W which is interesting and within striking distance of a USB port that's can supply almost 2Amps. Push it to 120GH, and you are no longer in USB territory.

20 light bulbs (say, each $15, 16w=100Gh for mining, rest for light)=2.5TH, then it all converges through wi-fi on this device and you've got 2.5Th for $700 and only 336W used for mining. 
That is if they can do it for 15$ each, that and you have no angry wife about your miners everywhere, the only issue is the fan. This little usb has one, and someone speculated it was at 50w to keep it powered by usb (but I think they were forgetting the extra psu that comes for the board). It matters if they can run them at 100Gh without a fan and not kill them quickly.














 

 

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alh
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September 21, 2015, 10:44:55 PM
 #24

While I won't take apart the obvious math errors in the previous parts of the discussion, I will note that one of the Amazon pictures show a more or less breakdown of the parts that make up the total result. The Pi is obvious. What I also noticed was what looks to be a small fan. From the scale and such, I'll bet it's one of those 40mm fans that are typically in a 1U server.

Maybe 21Inc found a quiet version of those. The "shroud" looks to direct the fans airflow over the chip.
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September 21, 2015, 11:03:29 PM
 #25

21 has a bunch of positions listed on Angel.Co:

https://angel.co/21/jobs

They claim to have developed a chip that can be put into any internet connected device.  The RPi computer aside, it would interesting to see what they can do with their chip, and whether you start seeing mainstream point of sale systems with integrated bitcoin hardware/software.

-Fuse

I like the names of some of their positions: "Growth hacker"-sounds interesting.

Growth hacker is a pretty common term nowadays with tech startups.  It's basically a marketing specialist.  Data scientist is another term I've been fond of... basically a DB code monkey.


Back to 21 though.  I could see this being a big part of the attempt for IOT.  Kingcolex has the idea.  I could see putting these in the LED, wifi-enabled, bulbs that have huge heatsinks.  I'd replace all the lights in my house!  Grin

I applied for the support engineer position.  I'll see if I get a call. lol

-Fuse

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September 21, 2015, 11:38:25 PM
 #26

If folks are actually interested in this, I would encourage you to visit their website mentioned by the OP. There you will find a FAQ tab. When you read that, it's obvious they didn't intend to make a "100GH home miner" in the usual sense of the phrase. It's all wrapped up in something to do with you (the purchaser) doing something related to Bitcoin, that this gadget will help facilitate. I will freely admit I don't understand it, so maybe some of you folks will see how it obviously applies to you, though probably NOT as a miner in the usual sense.

I don't see the connection to a "Mining Lightbulb", but maybe I missed it in the FAQ, though I don't think so.
Biodom
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September 22, 2015, 01:21:40 AM
 #27

21 has a bunch of positions listed on Angel.Co:

https://angel.co/21/jobs

They claim to have developed a chip that can be put into any internet connected device.  The RPi computer aside, it would interesting to see what they can do with their chip, and whether you start seeing mainstream point of sale systems with integrated bitcoin hardware/software.

-Fuse

I like the names of some of their positions: "Growth hacker"-sounds interesting.

Growth hacker is a pretty common term nowadays with tech startups.  It's basically a marketing specialist.  Data scientist is another term I've been fond of... basically a DB code monkey.


Back to 21 though.  I could see this being a big part of the attempt for IOT.  Kingcolex has the idea.  I could see putting these in the LED, wifi-enabled, bulbs that have huge heatsinks.  I'd replace all the lights in my house!  Grin

I applied for the support engineer position.  I'll see if I get a call. lol

-Fuse

i thought data scientist is rather an expert in R.

I also see an appeal in this:
Quote
In terms of physical goods, you can also use the 21 Bitcoin Computer to rent out any internet-accessible device on a per-use basis. For example, you can allow people to submit jobs to printers and 3D printers for bitcoin, or set up a smart lock that accepts bitcoin to open a door. Because the 21 Bitcoin Computer is a full computer, you can make essentially any internet-accessible device bitcoin-rentable.

It does not specifically mentioned lamps, but if it has wi-fi capabilities and so do lamps, presumably, then 21 co device could act as a bridge, I guess.
If "mining" lamps would produce light as a normal lamp would and cost $15, I don't see a problem to get them. My master bathroom alone has 12 lamps, so I can easily accommodate 20-30 of those around the house. instead of renting, you could just push your work to a pool via the 21 co thingie.
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September 22, 2015, 01:57:51 AM
 #28

Imagine a fridge that can detect what needs to be ordered, and automatically order it, on the blockchain. Or send the owner a message on the blockchain (small miner for txfee is handy here).
Have I lost it?  Cheesy

Amazing product imo.
kingcolex
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September 22, 2015, 03:13:58 AM
 #29

Imagine a fridge that can detect what needs to be ordered, and automatically order it, on the blockchain. Or send the owner a message on the blockchain (small miner for txfee is handy here).
Have I lost it?  Cheesy

Amazing product imo.
No and amazon would be more than excited to be the ones to deliver it, in New York they have Prime Now and delivery groceries in an hour or so. Smart fridges with the touch screen (do nothing but tweet and facebook now) could have prompt message based off weight sensors and spots for milk and eggs, send the transaction via bitcoin the second you press yes and confirm it.














 

 

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sidehack
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September 22, 2015, 03:26:08 AM
 #30

I'm a big fan of using the blockchain and microtransactions to send messages. Nothing supports miners and the network like thousands of no-fee dust transactions with additional data payloads.

On the subject of the feasibility of mining lightbulbs and why it's pretty universally a bad idea, there's other threads already discussing that point.

Got a new 28-90GH stick miner!
Currently in development - 100+GH USB stick; 800GH 60W pod; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
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September 22, 2015, 03:33:38 AM
 #31

If folks are actually interested in this, I would encourage you to visit their website mentioned by the OP. There you will find a FAQ tab. When you read that, it's obvious they didn't intend to make a "100GH home miner" in the usual sense of the phrase. It's all wrapped up in something to do with you (the purchaser) doing something related to Bitcoin, that this gadget will help facilitate. I will freely admit I don't understand it, so maybe some of you folks will see how it obviously applies to you, though probably NOT as a miner in the usual sense.

I don't see the connection to a "Mining Lightbulb", but maybe I missed it in the FAQ, though I don't think so.

I realize that they probably weren't aiming to make a home miner, but you better believe that if it can hash, people will make it hash.  The fact that they are claiming the following makes me think that they will push the mining capabilities, regardless of speed:

Quote
The 21 Bitcoin Chip is an application specific integrated circuit (ASIC) specifically designed to provide a constant stream of bitcoin to your computer as a system resource.

So yeah, a fridge with automatic ordering capabilities, that ever couple of months buys you a free gallon of milk on what you've mined.  I'd dig it.  Honestly, the point of sale systems with integrated Bitcoin protocols though is the key.  And think about all the talk about those 9 banks adopting blockchain technology.  This could be a precursor to a larger financial system that hasn't been put together yet.

Bringing blockchain technology to any device opens a lot of possibilities.

I'm a big fan of using the blockchain and microtransactions to send messages. Nothing supports miners and the network like thousands of no-fee dust transactions with additional data payloads.

On the subject of the feasibility of mining lightbulbs and why it's pretty universally a bad idea, there's other threads already discussing that point.

Once ASICs get to the absolute minimum of power consumption per hash, I'm pretty sure you'll see people putting chips in anything to sell a product.  The new RonCo rotisserie oven will have a damn ASIC mining chip in it for all we know.  "Just set it and forget it... until you have enough BTC to make a minimum transaction to wallet."

i thought data scientist is rather an expert in R.

Or python.  In fact, most new startups don't even really care what language you use as long as you can quantify qualitative data.  Most of these tech startups really just need a Tableau developer, and they'd have what they needed.  But that's a story for another thread.

-Fuse

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September 22, 2015, 04:00:06 AM
 #32

The RonCo might actually make sense for having mining chips in it, since it uses heat. However, since the heat it actually uses to cook pretty much exceeds the melting point of solder, let alone the safe operating point of any kind of precision silicon, I kinda doubt it'd be feasible. It doesn't matter how power-efficient the chip is, the only single-purpose device which actually benefits from having an integrated mining chip is a device whose purpose is to create or harness heat. There's really no use-case where a dedicated miner is not better than a tacked-on miner in some non-mining device. Building a miner into a refrigerator, for example, is pretty foolish because the purpose of the fridge is to stay cold. Adding heat to its environment, no matter how little, makes it less efficient - using electricity to add heat which it then uses electricity to manage, whatever bitcoins you just mined you paid for twice.

The approximately 100GH miner built into this little guy, how are you going to get paid for that? Will it be pointed dedicatedly at a 21e6 pool? How often will your dust be disbursed? Will 21e6 blocks cover those disbursements for free, since they'll probably be about the same value as the fee any other pool would require to process that transaction? What about the micro message transactions you send out? Will 21e6 blocks confirm those transactions as well, or are they going to float in the nether until some generous pool decides to toss 'em in with some actual paying transactions? Saying there'll be a "constant stream of bitcoin to your computer" is either a lie or a very annoying process.

Got a new 28-90GH stick miner!
Currently in development - 100+GH USB stick; 800GH 60W pod; 6TH volt-adjustable S1/3/5 upgrade kit
Server PSU interface boards and cables. USB and small-scale miners. Hardware hosting, advice and odd-jobs. Supporting the home miner community since 2013 - http://www.gekkoscience.com
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September 22, 2015, 04:06:34 AM
 #33

Finally they broke the ice!

H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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September 22, 2015, 04:19:55 AM
 #34

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Then buy and sell digital goods and services at the command line.

Fock all GUIs. True *nix way! Watch movies and surf Internet via command line!..  Undecided

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September 22, 2015, 04:25:43 AM
 #35

$400 for an API, a couple apps, and 50-125GH of hashing @ 0.16gh/j ?

I am sure the price will gradually come down. Anything that increases usage and the potential for more decentralization sounds like a step in the right direction.

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September 22, 2015, 04:37:00 AM
 #36

Interesting idea, but way too expensive. It maybe be justified if the hardware is harder to manufacture it.
I just can't fathom a future with bitcoin dedicated hardware, it seems overkill.
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September 22, 2015, 04:50:10 AM
 #37

Saying there'll be a "constant stream of bitcoin to your computer" is either a lie or a very annoying process.

that's true...it is probably a redirect or something.
well, the way I see it...they put out a toy for $400 (1/5 of antminer s7). Some kids would rather pay $400 than $2000 PLUS you get some goodies in addition to mining.
they are also saying that the chip could be added pretty much anywhere...this I certainly don't see (for example,  iphones, etc.) since there is not much power there.
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September 22, 2015, 06:14:48 AM
 #38

Just wanted to say that this things main purpose is not mining.

See https://21.co/faq/#making-a-profit and https://21.co/faq/#making-a-profit-part2

"If you do want to pursue the commodity business of mining-to-sell-for-dollars, you can certainly try to use the 21 Bitcoin Computer for that purpose as it does have a highly energy efficient chip— but that is not the intended use."

This more like a payment system for APIs and IoT devices, where amounts for service/work are tiny and mucking around with credit cards, payments gateways and handling subscriptions is too tedious. In other words, machine-to-machine payments.

They definitely need to improve their copywriting, but on the other hand I can see that people are locked into bitcoin + hardware == mining mindset and thats hard to change.
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September 22, 2015, 07:09:04 AM
 #39

I would say that probably the most valuable aspect of this announcement and mid-November delivery will be to demonstrate their actual chips. I expect it will help satisfy their investors (i.e. the $116M of VC money), that they actually produced something like they said they would. It also will allow other folks to actually tinker with it and perhaps do something with it. That's probably secondary in their mind.

As a $400 100GH miner it will fall flat. It may well be more successful than the $200 SFARDS development board though. After all, you still have some useful hardware in 6 months (e.g. Pi, SD card, etc). 

I will also breathlessly await the next IoT thing from 21Inc, so I can laugh at how silly it is to try and make everything that has electricity do something with BTC.  Smiley
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September 22, 2015, 07:54:08 AM
 #40

So it looks like the whole point of this gadget would be to allow folks to use/abuse the Bitcoin network to do "stuff" that isn't actually related to Bitcoin (perhaps). That would make sense within the context of the "Blockchain is preloaded on the SD card". Kinda like using a BTC wallet address instead an IP address to communicate with somebody maybe? The blockchain seems poorly engineered with rising difficulty and such, but maybe this is the idea. I don't really understand why a "machine" would need to send money to another machine. Why or when a machine would need or want money is beyond me. I thought money was an invention for people, not for machines.

Oh well, fun to watch, since I have zero of that $116M at risk. Maybe I should blow $400 to just find out what's really special, and what's just cobbled together from Micro-Center and the Raspberry Pi foundation.

I also noticed the "datacenter backend" mentioned. Is that something that 21Inc is running or what? I always wonder if when a company supplies a "service" that's part of your product, what happens if/when they go under. I remember a class of DVD player that had specially encoded DVD's that you would purchase cheap, and then get a two day play period. You could pay more and then "own" the disk. That only worked until the company went under, and then your "owned" disks were unplayable, because the server disappeared when the company died.
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