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Author Topic: Submerge your rigs in liquid  (Read 14375 times)
niko
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October 19, 2012, 04:27:30 PM
 #41

Good luck trying to use it in warm climate like where i live, +36ºC all year long. it would be interesting to see a Pressure-Temperature diagram of the stuff.
There are numerous liquids available, with varying boiling points. A liquid needs to be electrically insulating, inert/non-corrosive, stable, non-toxic, and boiling point should be above your ambient temperature and less or equal to the maximum desired temperature of your components.

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October 19, 2012, 04:39:34 PM
 #42


+1. That's a clever concept, keeping the fluid circulating without a fan or pumps.
More than clever. It's not simple immersion cooling, it's evaporative cooling: any component reaching the boiling point of the liquid (34C in this case) will cause the liquid to boil. Heat of evaporation takes away all the heat from that point on, it's almost impossible to go above 34 C in this case. Most of vapor is then condensed at the heat exchanger, and recycled into the system. This heat exchanger is likely the most problematic part: it's got to be able to dissipate heat into the surroundings at the rate sufficient to keep the hot side below boiling point of the liquid.


Good luck trying to use it in warm climate like where i live, +36ºC all year long. it would be interesting to see a Pressure-Temperature diagram of the stuff.

If you're running a server or many rigs, or any rig at all, you probably have the air conditioner on?
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October 19, 2012, 06:04:31 PM
 #43


+1. That's a clever concept, keeping the fluid circulating without a fan or pumps.
More than clever. It's not simple immersion cooling, it's evaporative cooling: any component reaching the boiling point of the liquid (34C in this case) will cause the liquid to boil. Heat of evaporation takes away all the heat from that point on, it's almost impossible to go above 34 C in this case. Most of vapor is then condensed at the heat exchanger, and recycled into the system. This heat exchanger is likely the most problematic part: it's got to be able to dissipate heat into the surroundings at the rate sufficient to keep the hot side below boiling point of the liquid.


Yeah, that's what's most clever about this.  Obviously oil has a very high boiling point.  Even water is 100c, which is far too hot to run a computer.  This Novec 7000 stuff seems to be a perfect liquid for cooling via submersion.  As long as you can keep it from escaping when it evaporates, you're good to go.  In fact, according to this data sheet, you could refrigerate the Novec 7000 to well below freezing (for water).  It seems like something that would be fun for extreme overclockers to play around with.

EDIT: Apparently they're already starting to use this stuff in data centers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3gCavl2Y6U
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October 20, 2012, 05:35:51 AM
 #44

That's why you cool the oil, there are many different ways you can do it, and off the top of my head..

Hook a heatsink to frigerator coils.
Hook a heatsink that's buried into the ground.
Hook a heatsink thats connected to a pool.


Where I live, you dig 2 feet down and you're at water. A free source of heat dispersion.

Anywhere on earth - at some distance underground you'll hit a stable region (usually around 6 to 10 feet) where you have a temp in the high 60s. No reason you couldn't passive cool an oil system by burying micro tubes. keep your pumps above ground. There are home heating/cooling systems using commercial heat exchange systems for houses... but I'm sure someone could come up with a DIY solution.

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October 20, 2012, 02:10:06 PM
 #45

Ohhh I want to play with novec Smiley

But it's not cheap and not realy healthy ....

You have to build a competely sealed container for the computer so it doesn't evaporate.

One thing on oil rigs:

The one from puget systems ,.... If u install a GPU with a standard ati heatsink. It would pump the oil out of the aquarium. If the fan is strong enough u get a decent "oil" fountain.....:d


Quite messy setup :/



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November 01, 2012, 04:05:40 AM
 #46

See this post here, and read the following conversation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg1253938#msg1253938

The end result was that while oil can work amazing for gaming, where you're not dumping a lot of heat into it 24/7, it's not the best idea for miners. It will initially (first 12 hours) keep your GPUs very cool, but once the oil heats up, it's very hard to cool the oil (and the system) back down.

That's only 1 view, with 1 person who didn't do anything different. There are a bunch of creative ways to cool it down.



Edit: A pipe going out a window, buried into the ground, mixing around with ground water. Free after you buy the copper pipe.

This is illegal in many countries, you are not allowed to contaminate the ground water, it needs to be a 'closed' system.
I.E, one coil for the ground water in/out  a separate coil for the cooling/heating circuit.

such a system costs several KW a day to run.

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November 01, 2012, 05:32:41 AM
 #47

Submerging your gear in oil actually works pretty well.  But there's one downside.  Forget about ever salvaging or reselling that gear.  Once you dip that stuff in mineral oil, you will never get it all off.
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November 01, 2012, 06:36:53 AM
 #48

Submerging your gear in oil actually works pretty well.  But there's one downside.  Forget about ever salvaging or reselling that gear.  Once you dip that stuff in mineral oil, you will never get it all off.

i've read that thpse novec products can also be used as cleaning solutions, so they'll get rid of most of the oil.  pricey way to clean stuff, though.
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November 01, 2012, 06:49:01 AM
 #49

Arklone.

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joshv06
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November 02, 2012, 07:34:44 PM
 #50

Submerging your gear in oil actually works pretty well.  But there's one downside.  Forget about ever salvaging or reselling that gear.  Once you dip that stuff in mineral oil, you will never get it all off.

Thanks, I never knew that. Do you guys think mineral water could cool a card as powerful as a 7970? Or will it overheat?


 
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November 02, 2012, 08:22:00 PM
 #51

See this post here, and read the following conversation: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7216.msg1253938#msg1253938

The end result was that while oil can work amazing for gaming, where you're not dumping a lot of heat into it 24/7, it's not the best idea for miners. It will initially (first 12 hours) keep your GPUs very cool, but once the oil heats up, it's very hard to cool the oil (and the system) back down.

That's only 1 view, with 1 person who didn't do anything different. There are a bunch of creative ways to cool it down.



Edit: A pipe going out a window, buried into the ground, mixing around with ground water. Free after you buy the copper pipe.

Funny you should bring this idea up Farlack,me & my brother have a system we're working on right now to eliminate the coil from your A/C condensor by running sealed copper tubing/pipes into the ground to dissipate the heat.Just getting BTU #'s now with a window unit,but its looking promising for existing units up to 5 tons for residential systems.

The main benefit we're pushing is coils are the main thing to fail due to corrosion in seaside homes,in ground copper will elimate that failure point & last almost forever & remove that unsightly outdoor condensor from view  Grin

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November 02, 2012, 09:28:41 PM
 #52

wish the ground wasn't volcanic rock here, I'd love to be able to dump excess heat into it. Cheesy
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November 02, 2012, 11:16:41 PM
 #53

wish the ground wasn't volcanic rock here, I'd love to be able to dump excess heat into it. Cheesy

Interesting locations are fun!

With volcanic rock as your starting point you're talking 300% deeper than normal to find a stable temp. So you're basically talking about digging 30-50 foot hole... putting sand (or pulverized lavarock) in the bottom over your heat exchange tubes and then filling the hole back up with rock pieces.

I don't suppose you've got a handy fissure or cave on your property? Otherwise, I think making this sort of hole happen in that location would be too expensive... maybe if you were also sinking a heat exchange system for your house at the same time...maybe.


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November 03, 2012, 09:54:28 AM
 #54

This "oil" bathing is all well and good until.........

1. An Ecap explodes, spraying oil everywhere.
2. You have a "Chip-pan fire" during a critical failure.

HC

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November 03, 2012, 01:20:00 PM
 #55

This "oil" bathing is all well and good until.........

1. An Ecap explodes, spraying oil everywhere.
2. You have a "Chip-pan fire" during a critical failure.

HC

+1

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November 03, 2012, 01:49:40 PM
 #56

This "oil" bathing is all well and good until.........

1. An Ecap explodes, spraying oil everywhere.
2. You have a "Chip-pan fire" during a critical failure.

HC

+1

Maybe not. Liquids are good at avoiding things to get on fire and at absorbing exploding energy.

Fixing it stays a mess tho.

intentionally left blank
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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November 03, 2012, 06:07:58 PM
 #57

Funny you should bring this idea up Farlack,me & my brother have a system we're working on right now to eliminate the coil from your A/C condensor by running sealed copper tubing/pipes into the ground to dissipate the heat.Just getting BTU #'s now with a window unit,but its looking promising for existing units up to 5 tons for residential systems.

The main benefit we're pushing is coils are the main thing to fail due to corrosion in seaside homes,in ground copper will elimate that failure point & last almost forever & remove that unsightly outdoor condensor from view  Grin

so basically youre talking geothermal. hope youre aware of the length of pipe youll need, my 3 ton geothermal unit (A/C, heat, preheat for DHW) needs 2000 feet of pipe buried 5 feet down, although since its for heating also it takes more pipe as it needs to pump more heat around for heating the house and DHW. heating around here takes more exchange area than straight cooling as the max temp difference is greater. IE 10 F outside to 72 inside in heat mode vs 100 F outside to 72 inside in cooling mode.

maybe 1/2 the pipe? 1000 feet call it?
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November 03, 2012, 09:58:23 PM
 #58

This "oil" bathing is all well and good until.........

1. An Ecap explodes, spraying oil everywhere.
2. You have a "Chip-pan fire" during a critical failure.

HC

+1

Maybe not. Liquids are good at avoiding things to get on fire and at absorbing exploding energy.

Fixing it stays a mess tho.


SERIOUSLY Incorrect!!!!!!!!!!
1. you CANNOT compress a liquid, that is how hydraulics work!! ( & depth charges), any explosion inside a liquid transfers the energy to the edges of the liquid. (watch some old war movies where charges detonate inside a liquid)

2. With that reasoning, there would not be  "chip pan"  fires.

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November 03, 2012, 10:04:59 PM
 #59

This "oil" bathing is all well and good until.........

1. An Ecap explodes, spraying oil everywhere.
2. You have a "Chip-pan fire" during a critical failure.

HC

+1

Maybe not. Liquids are good at avoiding things to get on fire and at absorbing exploding energy.

Fixing it stays a mess tho.


SERIOUSLY Incorrect!!!!!!!!!!
1. you CANNOT compress a liquid, that is how hydraulics work!! ( & depth charges), any explosion inside a liquid transfers the energy to the edges of the liquid. (watch some old war movies where charges detonate inside a liquid)

2. With that reasoning, there would not be  "chip pan"  fires.

Sorry to disagree

I used to be a scuba diver. We always reloaded our air tanks by putting them in big water containers to absorb the explosion energy if one of them had the bad idea of exploding. It also helped cooling them because compressing increase heat.


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November 04, 2012, 10:08:54 AM
 #60

Funny you should bring this idea up Farlack,me & my brother have a system we're working on right now to eliminate the coil from your A/C condensor by running sealed copper tubing/pipes into the ground to dissipate the heat.Just getting BTU #'s now with a window unit,but its looking promising for existing units up to 5 tons for residential systems.

The main benefit we're pushing is coils are the main thing to fail due to corrosion in seaside homes,in ground copper will elimate that failure point & last almost forever & remove that unsightly outdoor condensor from view  Grin

so basically youre talking geothermal. hope youre aware of the length of pipe youll need, my 3 ton geothermal unit (A/C, heat, preheat for DHW) needs 2000 feet of pipe buried 5 feet down, although since its for heating also it takes more pipe as it needs to pump more heat around for heating the house and DHW. heating around here takes more exchange area than straight cooling as the max temp difference is greater. IE 10 F outside to 72 inside in heat mode vs 100 F outside to 72 inside in cooling mode.

maybe 1/2 the pipe? 1000 feet call it?

Yeah its geo thermal,but we are not designing for a heatpump app .....................yet  Wink Just cooling for now.

Our pipes are copper (hard drawn) 1/2" outside with a 3/8" inside of it,water table is about 2-4 feet below ground level.I think it came out to about 20' per ton (2-10' sections) water jetted into the ground,a little angle seems to work better than straight down.Water temp was around 70F,not an ideal delta,but it does work very well.

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day long, you are the asshole."  -Raylan Givens
Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
"An ASIC being late is perfectly normal, predictable, and legal..."Hashfast & BFL slogan Smiley
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