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Author Topic: Finally photos of real BFL Single SC and Jalapeno ASICs  (Read 10978 times)
Gatorhex
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October 20, 2012, 01:43:55 AM
 #1

I know some people will still say it's still a scam but it's another step closer to the dream. Cheesy

Single SC Prototype


Jalapeno Prototype


Source: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/
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October 20, 2012, 02:29:59 AM
 #2

I just saw this myself! Interesting tid-bit:

Quote
Each of the eight black squares on the board is a chip capable of computing 7.5 GH/s.
Quote
The Bitforce SC Jalapeno will use a modified board with only one chip, whose operating capacity is further reduced to meet the limited power availability through the USB bus.

So the jalapeno will be the same size, but will only have one chip, and it's going to be downclocked at that. Also no need for a heatsink/fan with only 5W, but that fact has already been established.

Prediction/speculation: I'm assuming that that means the Little Single only has 4 chips, and the SC MR will have all 8 chips per board, but will run at higher clock speeds, but also be WC'd.

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October 20, 2012, 02:33:19 AM
 #3

I can't say this loud enough: I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL NOVEMBER. SO STOKED!
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October 20, 2012, 02:37:00 AM
 #4

I just saw this myself! Interesting tid-bit:

Quote
Each of the eight black squares on the board is a chip capable of computing 7.5 GH/s.
Quote
The Bitforce SC Jalapeno will use a modified board with only one chip, whose operating capacity is further reduced to meet the limited power availability through the USB bus.

So the jalapeno will be the same size, but will only have one chip, and it's going to be downclocked at that. Also no need for a heatsink/fan with only 5W, but that fact has already been established.

Prediction/speculation: I'm assuming that that means the Little Single only has 4 chips, and the SC MR will have all 8 chips per board, but will run at higher clock speeds, but also be WC'd.

Wonder who will hack it first so it mines at 7.5 Gh   Cheesy

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October 20, 2012, 01:26:35 PM
 #5

sweet!
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October 20, 2012, 04:06:26 PM
 #6

Since the  jalapeno is downclocked might it be possible to overclock it to get more performance?
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October 20, 2012, 04:17:31 PM
 #7

Since the  jalapeno is downclocked might it be possible to overclock it to get more performance?

Doesn't look like it, even if you add fan and heatsink, you've still got the problem of the power limits of the USB port, and it looks like it's going to be more complicated than just soldering on a 12v/9v power jack.
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October 20, 2012, 06:08:08 PM
 #8

Are you all BLIND??? take a look of 5min comparing the two pics, it is the same board 1on1, only the jally board is less mounted en turned 90degree look at it it is the same board man...it is fake as hel, the jally is the one with a day less work on it even the big chip has the same spot triangel on it...

Put your money were your mouth is…       #coinderdotcom
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Interesting.


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October 20, 2012, 06:12:22 PM
 #9

Get a jalapeno, add a external PSU, add 7 more chips sourced from some chinese, final result Single Sc for 300 bucks.

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October 20, 2012, 06:18:37 PM
 #10

Get a jalapeno, add a external PSU, add 7 more chips sourced from some chinese, final result Single Sc for 300 bucks.

and where do you get the rest of component not included in jalapeños board?, and the most important the asics, these chips are made by/for BFL, so there is no market where to buy it, and don't talk about firmware, etc etc.


Regards



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BeetcoinScummer
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October 20, 2012, 10:41:41 PM
 #11

Are you all BLIND??? take a look of 5min comparing the two pics, it is the same board 1on1, only the jally board is less mounted en turned 90degree look at it it is the same board man...it is fake as hel, the jally is the one with a day less work on it even the big chip has the same spot triangel on it...
You moron. The triangle is the "A" in Atmel. They are using an Atmel microcontroller, for crying out loud.

Edit: Sorry if this was supposed to be satrical.
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October 20, 2012, 11:35:41 PM
 #12

Are you all BLIND??? take a look of 5min comparing the two pics, it is the same board 1on1, only the jally board is less mounted en turned 90degree look at it it is the same board man...it is fake as hel, the jally is the one with a day less work on it even the big chip has the same spot triangel on it...
You moron. The triangle is the "A" in Atmel. They are using an Atmel microcontroller, for crying out loud.

Edit: Sorry if this was supposed to be satrical.

Again why not just 1 pic whith both boards on it, why again the seperate pictures???
But i hope they send the 1000btc to charity any way...they made another promise on theire website..
Keep on promissing ..i do don,t believe them untill ASIC  hanging on a cgminer orso doing 60Gh @ 60watts...

Put your money were your mouth is…       #coinderdotcom
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October 21, 2012, 05:20:19 AM
 #13

exciting news Smiley
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October 21, 2012, 12:19:20 PM
 #14

Again why not just 1 pic whith both boards on it, why again the seperate pictures???

Because it's all a SCAM! Scam, scamity scam! Don't ever buy ASICs, run away and don't get scammed!


Disclaimer: I'm just saying that because I don't want competition

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October 21, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
 #15

Again why not just 1 pic whith both boards on it, why again the seperate pictures???

Because it's all a SCAM! Scam, scamity scam! Don't ever buy ASICs, run away and don't get scammed!


Disclaimer: I'm just saying that because I don't want competition

Do you believe that ASICs and BFL are scam and you got in your signature publicity to win a BFL product?, I think BFL don't likes you as publicist. Be consistent, dude. If you believe they are scam don't sell your beliefs by a BFL Single and change your signature, then you can troll this threath freely.

Regards

 

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October 21, 2012, 07:41:53 PM
 #16

Again why not just 1 pic whith both boards on it, why again the seperate pictures???

Because it's all a SCAM! Scam, scamity scam! Don't ever buy ASICs, run away and don't get scammed!


Disclaimer: I'm just saying that because I don't want competition

Do you believe that ASICs and BFL are scam and you got in your signature publicity to win a BFL product?, I think BFL don't likes you as publicist. Be consistent, dude. If you believe they are scam don't sell your beliefs by a BFL Single and change your signature, then you can troll this threath freely.

Regards

 
trade some BTC for some glasses..look@his small letters@his post....lol  Tongue Roll Eyes Grin Wink

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October 21, 2012, 07:57:24 PM
 #17

Again why not just 1 pic whith both boards on it, why again the seperate pictures???

Because it's all a SCAM! Scam, scamity scam! Don't ever buy ASICs, run away and don't get scammed!


Disclaimer: I'm just saying that because I don't want competition

Do you believe that ASICs and BFL are scam and you got in your signature publicity to win a BFL product?, I think BFL don't likes you as publicist. Be consistent, dude. If you believe they are scam don't sell your beliefs by a BFL Single and change your signature, then you can troll this threath freely.

Regards

 
trade some BTC for some glasses..look@his small letters@his post....lol  Tongue Roll Eyes Grin Wink

My apologies, I got glasses only I just didn't pay attention to the comment, the same tactic here, I don't want competition on BFL contest Cheesy.

Regards

.
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October 22, 2012, 12:38:19 PM
 #18

Nice ASIC porn Wink

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October 28, 2012, 06:42:10 PM
 #19

Best ruse by BFL ever lol, and the fact that the magazine posted makes it twice as epic. They said they do not even have the ASIC chips lol  This is some great smoke screen right here.

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October 29, 2012, 01:31:14 AM
 #20



LOL!

the fact that bitcoin magazine is pushing this as legit is only going to add to the lulz!
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October 29, 2012, 04:15:26 AM
 #21

Quote
> We're going to sell Uber devices capable of XXX exahashes per milisecond...
- These claims are not real, I'm not going to believe until I see the exact specification.
> Here it is, out device for poor wanna be miners will be powered by double USB 2
- These cannot be real. They don't even have the prototype, how could they know?
> Here are some nice renders we have. Take a look...
- The renders are fake, anyone can draw a cute pictures and put them on the internet... I'm not going to believe until I see real photos!
> Well, here are photos of our products...
- No, the pictures are shopped. I'm not going to believe until I see your device hashing on the video!


inb4: The video is fake! Hashrate is generated by massive GPU farm in top secret military base, and visitors in BFL facility were murdered and only their clones with altered memory were released...


.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.
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October 29, 2012, 06:09:07 AM
 #22

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
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October 29, 2012, 07:09:22 AM
 #23

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

+1

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October 29, 2012, 08:29:47 AM
 #24

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

+1

+2  Cool

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Got GOXXED ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KiqRpPiJAU&feature=youtu.be
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October 29, 2012, 09:34:12 AM
 #25

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

+1

+2  Cool

+3, totally agree
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October 29, 2012, 09:41:58 AM
 #26

 I was told january before I canceled my order

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October 29, 2012, 09:47:47 AM
 #27

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

+1

+2  Cool

+3, totally agree

+4. Cool facts. Thanks.

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October 29, 2012, 01:26:07 PM
 #28

I was told january before I canceled my order

When did you place yours, what order number?

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October 29, 2012, 02:18:14 PM
 #29

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

+1

+2  Cool

+3, totally agree

+4. Cool facts. Thanks.

+5, Fantastically stated.

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October 29, 2012, 02:55:03 PM
 #30

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.

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October 29, 2012, 03:12:00 PM
 #31

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.
Pictures seemed genuine to me. They never claimed they made the product, they are still making it. I haven't ordered from them mostly because I don't want to do business with people like Sonny (a scammer who still defends his own scams), Nasser (who is defending and justifying Sonny's past scams in a rather pathetic mannner), and Josh (who is disrespectful and derails threads). Still, I don't understand why you are so negative and make misleading statements about these pictures.
 They have delivered before, they are trying to deliver again. They don't seem to give shit about Bitcoin and the community, and they will try to suck most money out of suckers while delivering the minimum, but they will deliver.

They're there, in their room.
Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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October 29, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
 #32

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.



Fact: Facts are true
Fact: BFL has posted pictures of what are assumed to be non-working engineering samples by some members of the forum.

Supposition: Maybe they made some with a generic package (with no ASIC inside), so they could make sure the case, heatsink and everything else works before ordering 10,000 of everything.

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October 29, 2012, 03:38:52 PM
 #33

I know some people will still say it's still a scam but it's another step closer to the dream. Cheesy

Single SC Prototype


Jalapeno Prototype


Source: http://bitcoinmagazine.net/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

Cause Inaba said there is no prototype lol.... So that means these are fakes

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October 29, 2012, 04:01:15 PM
 #34

Cause Inaba said there is no prototype lol.... So that means these are fakes

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.

There are lots more things in this world than black/white, it is a logical fallacy to state that just because something fails the test for "A" it has to be "B", it could in fact be "C", "D" "3.14159", "Taco", or any other possible option. In this case we have far more than 2 (but less than infinite) possibilities.

Quit trolling, you have interesting things to say sometimes so I would hate to have to ignore you.

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October 29, 2012, 04:12:37 PM
 #35

Ill just agree to disagree how does that sound

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October 29, 2012, 04:22:12 PM
 #36

Ill just agree to disagree how does that sound

It sounds like the last ditch effort of someone who is losing an argument to end it before they're pwned by logic.
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October 29, 2012, 04:39:37 PM
 #37

No just am not going to waste time on something, I can not change peoples minds about, some people do not understand this concept which is acceptable. But they tend to be the ones who make snide stupid comments and try to belittle people for there lack of agreement on the subject. There once was a time when people could disagree about things and leave it at that, but we have become cavemanish about this, and you Sir make the perfect example of why.
         

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October 29, 2012, 04:49:45 PM
 #38

Cause Inaba said there is no prototype lol.... So that means these are fakes

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

There pictures don't prove absolutely anything. BFL is like a God: you can believe it or not, but you'll never know the truth before you die.  Grin

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October 29, 2012, 05:26:38 PM
 #39


[/quote]

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.
[/quote]

+1

SCAM could also be explained as at the time they WILL deliver they are worthless pieces of gear because they will deliver/generate the same amount of BTC as an GPU of 800mhase does right now an you will be behind in the game again like ur right now, thats a scam to only plus is the securety of the network but if u say u are in for that u ar an liar.

show both devices in one foto makes sure it taken at the same timeframe now they just upgraded the jally board few days later added some parts take another shoot and he there is the SC board,, yeah right...grow a dick and mine on... Grin


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October 29, 2012, 05:33:57 PM
 #40

Ill just agree to disagree how does that sound

I'll agree that you disagree to discuss the issue and make an actual case. Honestly we have not reached a principal disagreement yet, except perhaps on your willingness use of words in a misleading way. Already one troll has picked up your post and is grafting a new turd onto it as I formulate this reply.

I would prefer you attempt to convince us that these are fakes rather than engineering samples or any other potentially legitamate use, rather than just running around hollering about the fake ASIC gear without backing it up.

To date I have heard nothing except wild guesses and illogical arguments that proves that BFL is faking anything for malicious purposes.

If it is not malicious, why do you feel the need to use language that is 99% likely to be taken as Trolling? If you have honest concerns, air them, and we can find some points to disagree on. If you don't care enough about your pet theory to put it to the test then I only care as much as I see it as FUD-slinging, which is what I read.

We may well have fundamental disagreements on the role of government, or the power of markets, likelihood of getting caught, or a number of other influences on the actual scenario. Without at least drilling down 1-2 levels to understand the reason you formed your opinion, all I can do is put it in my existing framework and get the same result. I didn't believe in Hawking Radiation because it's named after Stephen Hawking, believe in it because others have tried to find errors in it and either failed, or improved the theoretical understanding of Black Holes. One thing science proves is that you get a lot more done trying to prove other people wrong than when you just agree to disagree.

I'm willing to be proven wrong, because I've learned a lot more in the past when I was wrong, but I've had an easier time of things when I was right. Both are good states, as long as my average doesn't slip too badly Wink

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October 29, 2012, 05:38:43 PM
 #41


show both devices in one foto makes sure it taken at the same timeframe now they just upgraded the jally board few days later added some parts take another shoot and he there is the SC board,, yeah right...grow a dick and mine on... Grin



Thanks troll, we really needed another insane theory...

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/190-More-board-pics


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October 29, 2012, 05:40:38 PM
 #42

No just am not going to waste time on something, I can not change peoples minds about, some people do not understand this concept which is acceptable. But they tend to be the ones who make snide stupid comments and try to belittle people for there lack of agreement on the subject. There once was a time when people could disagree about things and leave it at that, but we have become cavemanish about this, and you Sir make the perfect example of why.
         

Bonus point, highlight the irony in this quoted post.

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October 30, 2012, 05:30:46 AM
 #43

Clearly, judging by the shadows, these photos were taken on the moon...

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October 30, 2012, 12:01:14 PM
 #44

Clearly, judging by the shadows, these photos were taken on the moon...

So that's why they are not running these things. They would melt all the cheese.
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October 30, 2012, 01:06:42 PM
 #45

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.

Just wanted to add that Josh was saying at Bitcoin2012 in London on  15-16 September, that all preorders before this date BFL really wants to 100% have these shipped b4 the end of the year... (as a christmas present his actual words i believe)... so i'm just sitting back and waiting patiently until i get a package in the mail... it will come when it comes....

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October 30, 2012, 03:39:52 PM
 #46

.. am I the only one who see something like this while reading any of the BFL threads?
And sorry for off topic, I could not take it anymore.

yep, looks like you have a nasty case of Troll-bite there. Hold on and I'll suck out the worst of the poison, but you will have complete the healing process yourself...

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competetive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December.
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all preorders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

Fact BFL posted these fake pictures of a product they have not made yet.

Just wanted to add that Josh was saying at Bitcoin2012 in London on  15-16 September, that all preorders before this date BFL really wants to 100% have these shipped b4 the end of the year... (as a christmas present his actual words i believe)... so i'm just sitting back and waiting patiently until i get a package in the mail... it will come when it comes....

FACT: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/251-More-Jalapeno-Pictures-amp-Shipping-Update

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October 30, 2012, 06:44:39 PM
 #47

But will it still heat my coffee

hi
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October 30, 2012, 06:46:27 PM
 #48

Clearly, judging by the shadows, these photos were taken on the moon...

llolol
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October 30, 2012, 06:47:18 PM
 #49

But will it still heat my coffee

The new flat surface is best used for making grilled cheese instead of warming coffee.
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October 30, 2012, 08:12:58 PM
 #50

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.
Engineering samples are by definition an actual, mostly-working version of the chip, possibly with various issues and really poor yields, but functional enough to test with. BFL have said they don't have any chips like that yet, so these pretty much have to be fakes (though I believe the more polite term is "mock-up").

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October 30, 2012, 10:38:17 PM
 #51

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.
Engineering samples are by definition an actual, mostly-working version of the chip, possibly with various issues and really poor yields, but functional enough to test with. BFL have said they don't have any chips like that yet, so these pretty much have to be fakes (though I believe the more polite term is "mock-up").
There is more to an ASIC miner than ASIC chip. The mock-ups may fool the fools, but BFL should be able to learn a lot by assembling them. It shows that they are working on it. This doesn't change my dislike for people who run BFL, but let's not go over the board with unwarranted accusations.

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October 31, 2012, 12:04:59 AM
 #52

FACT: Several other manufacturers and BFL have been producing mining equipment starting last year and early this year.
FACT: BFL had significant delays, and a 4x difference in projected and actual power utilization, even after shipping started it remained slow for some time.
FACT: BFL started taking preorders back in July, some folks have been waiting on them since then, impatiently
FACT: BFL stated initially that they would be shipping October, and at some point updated that to October/November.
FACT: Late on 10/29/2012 BFL updated their shipping outlook to the very end of November, most likely the first week of December for first shipments. (added 10/30/2012)
          (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/showthread.php/251-More-Jalapeno-Pictures-amp-Shipping-Update)
FACT: BFL updated their unit to be more competitive, and has blamed some of their challenges on this
FACT: BFL is has experienced some sourcing issues on the heat sinks for the SC Singles, but the issues are believed resolved (added 10/30/2012)
FACT: BFL expects the final revision of the ASIC chips in hand in about 25 days (est. 11/26/2012) (added 10/30/2012)
FACT: BFL has stated they will perform assembly and ship about a week after once the chips come in (this implies that they are doing final assembly of chips to boards in-house, but does not confirm it) (added 10/30/2012)
FACT: BFL is having sourcing issues for the VFD displays for the minirigs which requires changes to display and case, but have stated that it will not "affect the timeline in any material fashion" and Josh seems oddly smug about something... (added 10/30/2012)
FACT: BFL has not yet made any statements that shipping would not begin before the end of November. They have told BitCoin Magazine that they would be shipping late in November, but they have never said they would start in December. (outdated on 10/30/2012)
FACT: BFL has stated an intention to ship all pre-orders through September "by the end of the year" (IIRC, not sure about when they made the statement, thought it was early October)
FACT: BFL has invested in (new/upgraded) board level fabrication and assembly tools for use in batches after the first one
FACT: BFL has Millions of dollars in preorders, outside investors watching them, and huge community pressure to deliver on time and in spec

Supposition: BFL is very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their October/November timeframe, or tell us that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some folks are not so good at waiting, so if you notice someone saying in the 35th thread that BFL is a scam and are stealing all the money, just hit the little link under their name that says "ignore" and get on with it. If something bad enough to really get concerned about happens, you will see reputable posters talking about it quickly enough.

(If anyone sees errors above or has updated information, please let me know and I'll update the post.)

I've updated the fact-list above, please let me know if you have factual disputes with any of the fact items, or want to expound on the suppositions.
This list was originally created as troll repellent, feel free to put it to good use, just be careful to label your facts and suppositions accordingly.

Partial Confirmation: BFL_Josh has made an official statement on shipping expectations, delaying the ship date, but they did communicate it in advance and not just let it slip. Several additional details revealed.

Supposition:BFL is still very motivated to succeed, are not likely to take off with the money, and will in fact deliver a product, within their early December timeframe, or tell us that (within 2 weeks) that they are missing it. Until we hear that they are shipping or delayed we get to wait.

Some additional things that are semi-confirmed:
Supposition: BFL is using the smallest process of any Bitcoin ASIC manufacturer this generation, many are pegging 65nm as the likely process node.
Supposition: BFL Believes that they will still be selling a competitive product well into next year

On a lighter note:
But will it still heat my coffee

The new flat surface is best used for making grilled cheese instead of warming coffee.

Pop Tarts!

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October 31, 2012, 01:06:05 AM
 #53


On a lighter note:
But will it still heat my coffee

The new flat surface is best used for making grilled cheese instead of warming coffee.

Pop Tarts!

I like it.
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October 31, 2012, 03:39:37 AM
 #54


Very telling:
Quote
We expect the final chip versions to be in our hands in ~25 days, with final assembly and shipping to begin a few days after that.
So, that's the 22nd of November based on when this was posted, and that's assuming no further delays, and that all the other parts turn up in time, and that's just when they can begin assembling boards.

Yeah, I don't know why BFL are even pretending they'll ship in November...
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October 31, 2012, 03:42:40 AM
 #55


On a lighter note:
But will it still heat my coffee

The new flat surface is best used for making grilled cheese instead of warming coffee.

Pop Tarts!

I like it.

Aww,no TOASTER STRUDEL  Huh Sad

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October 31, 2012, 09:01:38 AM
 #56


Very telling:
Quote
We expect the final chip versions to be in our hands in ~25 days, with final assembly and shipping to begin a few days after that.
So, that's the 22nd of November based on when this was posted, and that's assuming no further delays, and that all the other parts turn up in time, and that's just when they can begin assembling boards.

Yeah, I don't know why BFL are even pretending they'll ship in November...

November 2012 no real ASICs working proof out there ..so it,s very hard to speculate who will ship first..IF ever shiped
 

IF they were for real they would invest, make the product shelfready, put them in stock en sell them after testing knowing they will beable of doing 24/7 without breaking...

To me it feels all ASIC makers:

Taking advantage of gained trust, fpga products
Taking advantage of greedyness of ..i MUST be an early adopter and must make quick money
Taking advantage of naief people counting them selfs TO rich..we now now ROI will be same as GPU
They are very precise with respect to prepayments but very vague about all the rest,
They keep giving some info, news, pictures etc NO real stuff
Try to looking good by doing free device contests, charities support, bets ect. they all do this why ?? all things scammers would do to make them look good just to keep pleasing the customer


Oktober not even an working compleet device out there, only vague stuff..promisses BROKEN
November   will be updated soon
December   will be updated soon
Januari       "     "    "   

@ the end of November and no ASIC out there it is time for me to continue to heavely invest more into my GPU farm again.

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October 31, 2012, 09:19:32 AM
 #57

Aww,no TOASTER STRUDEL  Huh Sad

Hey, if you want to be accused of having a greasy jalapeno, go for it.

Sounds a bit too nasty for my taste though.

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October 31, 2012, 01:39:10 PM
 #58

November 2012 no real ASICs working proof out there ..so it,s very hard to speculate who will ship first..IF ever shiped

I think they WILL be shipped. It's not like the ASICs are some unicorns that need to be hunted in the magical forest. In the end, those boards will be assembled and packed and shipped.

Due to the fact that time is of the essence, BFL, BTCFPGA (hey, you should rename yourself BTCASIC or bASIC), Avalon and the rest, need to walk a fine line between providing dates with enough buffer to accommodate for unexpected delays and dates with no such buffer. I guess who has the smoothest/reliable suppliers chain will ship first ...

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Bogart
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November 01, 2012, 04:20:14 AM
 #59

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.
Engineering samples are by definition an actual, mostly-working version of the chip, possibly with various issues and really poor yields, but functional enough to test with. BFL have said they don't have any chips like that yet, so these pretty much have to be fakes (though I believe the more polite term is "mock-up").

Oh my.

I can't quite believe they are ordering up 20,000 chips, and counting on them to all work right, without having first received such an engineering sample, to verify that it works, and to have the opportunity to make any changes before producing them in large numbers.

If they are, well, best of luck gentlemen.

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November 01, 2012, 04:58:52 AM
 #60

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.
Engineering samples are by definition an actual, mostly-working version of the chip, possibly with various issues and really poor yields, but functional enough to test with. BFL have said they don't have any chips like that yet, so these pretty much have to be fakes (though I believe the more polite term is "mock-up").

Oh my.

I can't quite believe they are ordering up 20,000 chips, and counting on them to all work right, without having first received such an engineering sample, to verify that it works, and to have the opportunity to make any changes before producing them in large numbers.

If they are, well, best of luck gentlemen.

You make a lot of assumptions in that sentence.

If you recall the announcement, Josh specifically mentioned the "final chip versions," so I'm going to stand well back because you are going off half-cocked, and that is dangerous to your fellow Musketeers.
(realizing some of our international friends might think this colloquialism is a porn reference, here is some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-cock)

It would appear from the wording that there has been at least one other batch or test ASIC. FYI, I've not looked him up yet, but the guy they have doing the ASIC design is supposed to be pretty hot stuff.

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
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Starlightbreaker
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November 01, 2012, 05:10:09 AM
 #61

No, that just means that they don't have a prototype of this board running, it does not mean they are "fakes"

A fake is something intended to fool. An engineering sample is a more likely possibility.
Engineering samples are by definition an actual, mostly-working version of the chip, possibly with various issues and really poor yields, but functional enough to test with. BFL have said they don't have any chips like that yet, so these pretty much have to be fakes (though I believe the more polite term is "mock-up").

Oh my.

I can't quite believe they are ordering up 20,000 chips, and counting on them to all work right, without having first received such an engineering sample, to verify that it works, and to have the opportunity to make any changes before producing them in large numbers.

If they are, well, best of luck gentlemen.

You make a lot of assumptions in that sentence.

If you recall the announcement, Josh specifically mentioned the "final chip versions," so I'm going to stand well back because you are going off half-cocked, and that is dangerous to your fellow Musketeers.
(realizing some of our international friends might think this colloquialism is a porn reference, here is some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-cock)

It would appear from the wording that there has been at least one other batch or test ASIC. FYI, I've not looked him up yet, but the guy they have doing the ASIC design is supposed to be pretty hot stuff.
and all those 20000 chips are guaranteed to work?

i don't know about the failure rate, but i can safely assume not all of the 20000 will be failure-free....i think.

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November 01, 2012, 05:37:16 AM
 #62


and all those 20000 chips are guaranteed to work?

i don't know about the failure rate, but i can safely assume not all of the 20000 will be failure-free....i think.

It all depends on the contract, was it for X Working Devices to spec Y, or was it just X Devices with a penalty for excessive defects beyond a certain percentage? We don't know, but it really does not matter.

They have stated "This is enough for the pre-orders and then some", this means that even if there are faulty ASIC's they should have enough for the current orders.

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
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November 01, 2012, 07:51:50 AM
 #63


and all those 20000 chips are guaranteed to work?

i don't know about the failure rate, but i can safely assume not all of the 20000 will be failure-free....i think.

It all depends on the contract, was it for X Working Devices to spec Y, or was it just X Devices with a penalty for excessive defects beyond a certain percentage? We don't know, but it really does not matter.

They have stated "This is enough for the pre-orders and then some", this means that even if there are faulty ASIC's they should have enough for the current orders.

quality from China sucks really hard sorry to say so.

If send specific specs to China to make a batch of bolds metric screws specific measurements,
order 100.000 you be sure that u can thro away 20%..  but he the remaining 80.000 is still cheaper to make over there then produce them in Europe or USA. Quality is no there middle name...


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November 01, 2012, 09:54:47 AM
 #64

If you recall the announcement, Josh specifically mentioned the "final chip versions," so I'm going to stand well back because you are going off half-cocked, and that is dangerous to your fellow Musketeers.
(realizing some of our international friends might think this colloquialism is a porn reference, here is some background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-cock)

It would appear from the wording that there has been at least one other batch or test ASIC. FYI, I've not looked him up yet, but the guy they have doing the ASIC design is supposed to be pretty hot stuff.
His wording makes it sound like that, but someone asked whether they had any prototypes that were actually hashing at all and Josh said no:

Inaba, I guess you didn't see my question yesterday. Does BFL have a working (hashing) prototype ASIC miner?
No, we are waiting on our ASIC chips right now, as I've stated in a number of other places, though it's understandable if you have missed the posts, since they are spread out everywhere.

Admittedly that was a week ago, but he was using similarly confusing language back then too. For instance, he said: "We are waiting on the bulk chips from the foundry, that is really the major delay right now" as though there were some previous non-bulk chips, which apparently don't actually exist.

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November 01, 2012, 05:43:07 PM
 #65


His wording makes it sound like that, but someone asked whether they had any prototypes that were actually hashing at all and Josh said no:

Inaba, I guess you didn't see my question yesterday. Does BFL have a working (hashing) prototype ASIC miner?
No, we are waiting on our ASIC chips right now, as I've stated in a number of other places, though it's understandable if you have missed the posts, since they are spread out everywhere.

Admittedly that was a week ago, but he was using similarly confusing language back then too. For instance, he said: "We are waiting on the bulk chips from the foundry, that is really the major delay right now" as though there were some previous non-bulk chips, which apparently don't actually exist.

You have to look very carefully at the question and how it is asked. There are 2 questions here. Did you create and test a prototype? Is this prototype still running on MainNet (or has it ever?) The only way Josh would answer True to the compound question would be if they still had a prototype running. If they had a prototype that is no longer running then his answer would be correct, even though it was not what we were looking for.

Given the number of threads accusing BFL of mining on MainNet I can't be too annoyed that he wanted to put a nail in that half of the coffin.

At this point it is too late for much, so I'm not going to worry about it.

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November 03, 2012, 06:33:46 AM
 #66

I think it's in everyone's interest that no ASIC hits the market before the block reward halving. Less volatility in the supply of BTC that way. Predicting an early December release from both BFL and Tom(caplepair).
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November 03, 2012, 08:47:19 AM
 #67

I think it's in everyone's interest that no ASIC hits the market before the block reward halving. Less volatility in the supply of BTC that way. Predicting an early December release from both BFL and Tom(caplepair).

You are no fun, we need like 2 weeks of kaboom! to have stories to tell our grandkids about, and then get on with the craziness of ASIC adoption. Blocktimes are likely to go under 5 minutes anyway, softening the impact of the halving for 2-4 weeks:

"Date & Time   Block Time      Block Value

11/28/12 0:00   5.338700753   50
12/5/12 11:22   4.520922777   25
12/11/12 19:17   7.249945409   25
12/21/12 22:52   8.167824744   25
1/2/13 9:19      8.433939204   25
1/14/13 4:42   8.357994714   25
1/25/13 21:31   8.32945169      25
2/6/13 13:23   8.671654753   25


This is from a forecasting model based on the actual preorder numbers from Tom, ASIC lot Qty info from BFL, ASICMINER based on announcements in January, along with 2 waves of Avalons. Shipments of preorders are spread out over this whole section of difficulties for BFL, intial batch shipping within 2 weeks for Tom (WAY different sizes, does not reflect badly on BFL) and smaller follow-on batches every 2 weeks.

"...as simple as possible, but no simpler" -AE
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