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Author Topic: Another one for the "anarchists"  (Read 976 times)
MoonShadow
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November 02, 2012, 06:54:32 PM
 #1

http://phys.org/news/2012-01-people-socially.html

I've got to grant this one.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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Topazan
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November 02, 2012, 06:58:28 PM
 #2

I always thought that online games would be a good way to do social experiments.  One of these days I need to put together a simple game or two to test some theories I have.

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November 02, 2012, 07:04:48 PM
 #3

There's a discussion buried somewhere around here about a Minecraft server run as an Anarchy. Works just fine.

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November 02, 2012, 07:23:34 PM
 #4

Wasn't aware that minecraft servers typically have governments, nor the kind of dilemmas that test social structures.

I never played minecraft, so I guess I wouldn't know.

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November 02, 2012, 07:25:35 PM
 #5

Wasn't aware that minecraft servers typically have governments, nor the kind of dilemmas that test social structures.

I never played minecraft, so I guess I wouldn't know.

Government = monopoly on force
admin = monopoly on banning

Same general idea. Let me see if I can dig it up.

Edit1: Well, I can't find it. Maybe it was on a different forum?!?

Edit2: Derp. It was. Here's the link to the thread: http://forum.bigheadpress.com/index.php?topic=734.0

Edit3: Where the "hypotheticals" stop, and the "Yeah, We already did that" starts: http://forum.bigheadpress.com/index.php?topic=734.msg20159#msg20159

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November 02, 2012, 08:11:04 PM
 #6

Fascinating.  You have a different definition of "around here" than I do. :p

As an experiment, it doesn't seem to follow the rigor I would require, but I salute them for finding a way to apply their ideals to their gaming life.

Actually, that makes me wonder if their style of rule enforcement could be applied to other games and communities.  Like, would it work on these forums?  It might be difficult, because you would need to create the circumstances under which a poster can be released from imprisonment, and they would have to favor the better established and more organized posters to replicate their results.

EDIT:  Thanks for telling me about that.  It really raises a lot of interesting questions, and gives me even more ideas for experiments to do.

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November 03, 2012, 06:14:02 PM
 #7

Ignores Nazi Germany and Rwanda - people generally will seek stability, but faced with extreme circumstances they will happily commit genocide.
I suspect it's something to do with chaos mathematics. A feedback system going into chaotic bifurcation.
You'd need to see the space of all possible worlds - perhaps we could learn something from the point at which it breaks.
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November 03, 2012, 06:20:56 PM
 #8

Ignores Nazi Germany and Rwanda - people generally will seek stability, but faced with extreme circumstances they will happily commit genocide.
I suspect it's something to do with chaos mathematics. A feedback system going into chaotic bifurcation.
You'd need to see the space of all possible worlds - perhaps we could learn something from the point at which it breaks.

I'll note here, that in both those cases, those extreme circumstances were, in large part, due to their governments being captured by homicidal sociopaths.

Every government is run by sociopaths, it's what they are good at.  Fortunately it's fairly rare that intelligent sociopaths are also homicidal.  This is, notablely, an argument for the abolution or severe limitations of governments; since it's impossible for a homicidal sociopath to take the reigns of power in a nation that doesn't have any reigns.  Seriously, when have you ever heard of some Swiss general attempting a coup with the Swiss Army?

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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November 03, 2012, 06:26:03 PM
 #9

Every government is run by sociopaths, it's what they are good at.  Fortunately it's fairly rare that intelligent sociopaths are also homicidal.  This is, notably, an argument for the abolution or severe limitations of governments; since it's impossible for a homicidal sociopath to take the reigns of power in a nation that doesn't have any reigns.

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MoonShadow
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November 03, 2012, 06:35:39 PM
 #10

Every government is run by sociopaths, it's what they are good at.  Fortunately it's fairly rare that intelligent sociopaths are also homicidal.  This is, notably, an argument for the abolution or severe limitations of governments; since it's impossible for a homicidal sociopath to take the reigns of power in a nation that doesn't have any reigns.

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I said it's an argument, not that it's my last excuse.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
myrkul
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November 03, 2012, 06:43:14 PM
 #11

I said it's an argument, not that it's my last excuse.

I'll convince you yet. Wink

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November 03, 2012, 10:52:21 PM
 #12

Live in anarchy and want some power?

1. Organize a terror attack.
2. People are scared and demand more security.
3. Offer yourself as solution.
4. Huh
5. Profit!

History endlessly repeating.

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myrkul
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November 03, 2012, 11:08:14 PM
 #13

Live in anarchy and want some power?

1. Organize a terror attack.
2. People are scared and demand more security.
3. Offer yourself as solution.
4. Huh
5. Profit!

History endlessly repeating.

Your missing item 4 there:

4. Get rid of all the competition, especially those that get close to figuring out you're the one that did #1.

Essentially, you'll need to be a government (monopoly on the use of force) for your little plan to work. Fun fact: That's exactly how governments do it.

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MoonShadow
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November 03, 2012, 11:13:57 PM
 #14

Live in anarchy and want some power?

1. Organize a terror attack.
2. People are scared and demand more security.
3. Offer yourself as solution.
4. Huh
5. Profit!

History endlessly repeating.

Your missing item 4 there:

4. Get rid of all the competition, especially those that get close to figuring out you're the one that did #1.

Essentially, you'll need to be a government (monopoly on the use of force) for your little plan to work. Fun fact: That's exactly how governments do it.

Well, that's not entirely true.  Historicly speaking #1 didn't actually have to occur, one just had to convince enough people that it could occur.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
myrkul
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November 03, 2012, 11:28:40 PM
 #15

Live in anarchy and want some power?

1. Organize a terror attack.
2. People are scared and demand more security.
3. Offer yourself as solution.
4. Huh
5. Profit!

History endlessly repeating.

Your missing item 4 there:

4. Get rid of all the competition, especially those that get close to figuring out you're the one that did #1.

Essentially, you'll need to be a government (monopoly on the use of force) for your little plan to work. Fun fact: That's exactly how governments do it.

Well, that's not entirely true.  Historically speaking #1 didn't actually have to occur, one just had to convince enough people that it could occur.

Fair point. Still need #4 to ensure you're the one who gets the support, though. It does Brinks no good if everyone buys ADT after Brinks goes all out convincing people their houses could get robbed. (Or as the good herzmeister suggests, sponsors some house-robbers)

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November 04, 2012, 12:18:55 AM
 #16

I think part of the problem over the years is very simply we've been bombarded over the years with propaganda telling us that it isn't possible to live in a society without government and very little law? Think about it? What happens when film makers and news journalists ever think about this kind of thing? They always immediately come to the conclusion that it's going to end in an apocalypse scenario or everyone will kill each other, where's the evidence for this? Nowhere of course! It all depends on the people you hang out with. You also get people particularly when it comes to Ron Paul's opinions ranting about how if there were no taxes etc. then people would be left to die in the streets or there wouldn't be any roads and infrastructure.

As far as I'm concerned as long as we can go through life without killing each other or being physically violent towards one another we've done a fucking good job, anything else is just trivial really.
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