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Author Topic: If bitcoins go to $100 or even $1000 in value each, Could there be a Safeguard?  (Read 3030 times)
rexcoin
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October 21, 2012, 01:14:16 AM
 #1

Hey all paranoid bitcoiners (like me)
What if one day 1 Bitcoin is worth 100 or even more usd, could there be modifications to bitcoin protocol, Because if 1 bitcoin is worth that much one day and its like 99% Stable at that point, could there be modification to  the official bitcoin protocol to avid something called "Getting a gun pointed to your head for BTC"

Yes i know it sounds CRAZY, but hey there are people putting guns to people heads for currency's like WoW Gold and of course USD haha..
Anyway if bitcoin's price shot WAY up, is there a crazy way that someone could protect themself incase something like this happens?

Lets say something like this happens tomorrow:
A user is walking home from a long day at work, the user is 1 blocks away from home, all of a sudden a guy walks behind the user with a gun to his back, he tells the user to keep walking and to go into his house and give him all his bitcoins. The user would then login to his computer and send the btc to some new btc address and the gun men waits after 6 confimations then leaves and runs....

There is a high chance the gunmen walked away with thousands just now.
I am wondering if something like this can be done
A user is walking home from a long day at work, the user is 1 blocks away from home, all of a sudden a guy walks behind the user with a gun to his back, he tells the user to keep walking and to go into his house and give him all his bitcoins. The user would then touch his phone or ring or chest or something (lol) and it sends a sms message to his computer in which shows a regular bitcoin client (it would look 100% like a bitcoin client) except after hitting send on the bitcoin client it would send some "extra data" as in faking a bitcoin transaction in which after 6-7 confirms it goes back to the user who sent it, it would also contact the police (somehow?) so when the gunman goes home he notice he did not get shit.

I know what i typed sounds freaken sciyfie  but i think it could be possiable.


I am not requesting this to be done today, or tomorrow or even this year, but if bitcoins raises in value by a hell of alot, do you think the developers would support something like this?

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Stephen Gornick
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October 21, 2012, 01:38:30 AM
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Anyway if bitcoin's price shot WAY up, is there a crazy way that someone could protect themself incase something like this happens?

Is there a way to protect from the exchange rate shooting up?

It is extremely likely to jump more than twice its value over just a few days nonetheless jumping an order of magnitude or two.

So if you end up with more bitcoins at a value greater than you feel comfortable holding, you then read up on secure wallet storage.  This likely involves using a LiveOS and disconnected from the network printing some paper wallets and then sending funds to those wallets.  Then securing those paper wallets or bringing them somewhere where they are secure.

Coming "real soon" are easier methods of doing M of N, so there would be two people (or two of three even) that would need to agree on the transfer or it technically cannot occur.  And thus you can hand over everything you have but your funds are still secure.

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October 21, 2012, 01:41:25 AM
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There isn't really any good way to include a safeguard on Bitcoins that you want to be able to carry around with you and also spend.  But there are ways to separate your Bitcoins into various places with varying levels of protection against theft.  You can have a spending wallet that only contains a small amount that might get stolen, and a savings wallet that you keep in a safe place.

Businesses usually use time-lock safes in order to enable the storage of large sums while discouraging theft.  Put your savings wallet in one of those.

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October 21, 2012, 01:44:52 AM
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Hey all paranoid bitcoiners (like me)
What if one day 1 Bitcoin is worth 100 or even more usd, could there be modifications to bitcoin protocol, Because if 1 bitcoin is worth that much one day and its like 99% Stable at that point, could there be modification to  the official bitcoin protocol to avid something called "Getting a gun pointed to your head for BTC"

Yes i know it sounds CRAZY, but hey there are people putting guns to people heads for currency's like WoW Gold and of course USD haha..
Anyway if bitcoin's price shot WAY up, is there a crazy way that someone could protect themself incase something like this happens?

Lets say something like this happens tomorrow:
A user is walking home from a long day at work, the user is 1 blocks away from home, all of a sudden a guy walks behind the user with a gun to his back, he tells the user to keep walking and to go into his house and give him all his bitcoins. The user would then login to his computer and send the btc to some new btc address and the gun men waits after 6 confimations then leaves and runs....

There is a high chance the gunmen walked away with thousands just now.
I am wondering if something like this can be done
A user is walking home from a long day at work, the user is 1 blocks away from home, all of a sudden a guy walks behind the user with a gun to his back, he tells the user to keep walking and to go into his house and give him all his bitcoins. The user would then touch his phone or ring or chest or something (lol) and it sends a sms message to his computer in which shows a regular bitcoin client (it would look 100% like a bitcoin client) except after hitting send on the bitcoin client it would send some "extra data" as in faking a bitcoin transaction in which after 6-7 confirms it goes back to the user who sent it, it would also contact the police (somehow?) so when the gunman goes home he notice he did not get shit.

I know what i typed sounds freaken sciyfie  but i think it could be possiable.


I am not requesting this to be done today, or tomorrow or even this year, but if bitcoins raises in value by a hell of alot, do you think the developers would support something like this?

Now you know why Satoshi is anonymous Smiley
Though this could happen to anybody, like say a Liberty Reserve exchanger in Russia who advertises over "200k" in reserves on a website and some mobsters find where he lives.

If you made up this phony transferring it would more likely be used for in person fraud than this highly unlikely theft scenario
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October 21, 2012, 01:56:37 AM
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And? You seriously expect some robber is gonna just jump people on the streets for bitcoins?

"HEY! GIMMIE ALL YOUR BITCOINS?"
"What?"
"BITCOINS! YOU KNOW, THEY'RE WORTH THOUSANDS!"
"Bitcoins?"
*shoots*

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rexcoin
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October 21, 2012, 02:01:05 AM
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And? You seriously expect some robber is gonna just jump people on the streets for bitcoins?

"HEY! GIMMIE ALL YOUR BITCOINS?"
"What?"
"BITCOINS! YOU KNOW, THEY'RE WORTH THOUSANDS!"
"Bitcoins?"
*shoots*

Hey its the same way i seriously expect a World Wide EMP will hit.
Anyway i didnt say tomorrow or next week for this to happen, its when bitcoins would hit $100+ a coin, right now they are about $12 a coin...
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October 21, 2012, 02:05:04 AM
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Hey its the same way i seriously expect a World Wide EMP will hit.
Anyway i didnt say tomorrow or next week for this to happen, its when bitcoins would hit $100+ a coin, right now they are about $12 a coin...

If it rises that high, average joe will be dealing in satoshi anyway and there are other, less violent, more effective ways to get at them, e.g. hack into computer, pilfer wallet.dat...

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October 21, 2012, 03:01:50 PM
 #8

If I understood the OP correctly, this would mean being able to broadcast legitimate-looking transactions which would be reversed at some later time. No.

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October 21, 2012, 03:44:59 PM
 #9

Hey all paranoid bitcoiners (like me)
What if one day 1 Bitcoin is worth 100 or even more usd, could there be modifications to bitcoin protocol, Because if 1 bitcoin is worth that much one day and its like 99% Stable at that point, could there be modification to  the official bitcoin protocol to avid something called "Getting a gun pointed to your head for BTC"

Yes i know it sounds CRAZY, but hey there are people putting guns to people heads for currency's like WoW Gold and of course USD haha..
Is USD the currency of every country? I think not, so please refrain from mentioning USD when instead you should have said fiat currency as to avoid proclaiming USA as the only country on the planet and USD as the only fiat currency.

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October 21, 2012, 04:09:10 PM
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If I understood the OP correctly, this would mean being able to broadcast legitimate-looking transactions which would be reversed at some later time. No.

And bitcoin offers a payment system with non-reversible transactions.   Adding a way to reverse transactions would lower its value as a payment system.  Changes to the protocol require acceptance by the economic majority.  The economic majority will not accept a change that lowers the value of Bitcoin as a payment system.

In other words, relief from the threat of being robbed at gunpoint won't be coming from changes to the protocol.  Therefore, other security measures will need to be considered.  Similar risks in other financial matters have been mitigated by requiring two signatures, or by splitting the keys, etc.   That's probably the direction to look with regard to the risk that was raised in this thread.

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October 21, 2012, 09:41:00 PM
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Rexcoin, there is no difference between the scenario you describe, and a cash/ATM gunpoint situation.  Basically there are 2 things you could do to mitigate against robbers/hijackers/kidnappers:

1. Carry enough Bitcoins on your phone wallet so that a thief is happy if he mugs you at gunpoint, but never carry your entire savings balance on your person.  Leave your full balance at home or on a 3rd party online service, and draw from that on a daily basis as necessary.
2. At home, have a decoy wallet with low balance.  Give that to any intruders.  Keep your real wallet somewhere else, e.g. encrypted either online or physically hidden, USB, paper wallet, brain wallet, etc.

Of course this is all moot if a burglar has done research, can link an address with a high balance directly to you, and is targetting you explicitly for that reason; he will then insist on having those funds be submitted.  So if you're paranoid about that scenario, you should always break up addresses into small amounts and/or move/mix the funds around regularly or on receipt.  Hopefully, in the future, there will be some automatic P2P coin mixing/breakup solution for nontechies that mitigates any sloppy reusing & publishing of addresses, and the consequent risk of being targetted by offline thieves.
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October 22, 2012, 08:14:34 AM
 #12

If you have money, you must be rich. If you are rich, hire a bodyguard, or get adequate training to be your own bodyguard.

Or just be smart and don't be stupid. Takes care of a lot of problems.

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October 22, 2012, 08:52:48 AM
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. . . I am wondering if something like this can be done
A user is walking home from a long day at work, the user is 1 blocks away from home, all of a sudden a guy walks behind the user with a gun to his back, he tells the user to keep walking and to go into his house and give him all his bitcoins. The user would then touch his phone or ring or chest or something (lol) and it sends a sms message to his computer in which shows a regular bitcoin client (it would look 100% like a bitcoin client) except after hitting send on the bitcoin client it would send some "extra data" as in faking a bitcoin transaction in which after 6-7 confirms it goes back to the user who sent it, it would also contact the police (somehow?) so when the gunman goes home he notice he did not get shit. . .

This all sounds like a rather complicated way to solve a rather simple problem.

Step 1.  Don't brag to the world about how much bitcoin you have.  As long as you aren't publicly announcing all of your bitcoin addresses or the total amount of bitcoin you own, then a thief shouldn't be able to know just how much bitcoin you own.

Step 2. Create a second wallet with an amount of bitcoin that you are willing to give up (maybe $40 worth?).

Step 3.  When the thief demands "all of your bitcoin", simply start up this second wallet instead of your usual one.  Send "all" of the bitcoin from this wallet.  Thief waits until he sees the transaction on the network (Highly unlikely that he will wait for 6 confirmations, he really doesn't expect you to be able to provide enough hash power to double spend the transaction.)

Step 4.  Thief shoots you dead so that you will not be able to identify him.

Step 5. Thief leaves, and the rest of your protected bitcoins are either lost forever, or your family/estate is lucky enough to figure out how to access them (hopefully you have provided some sort of mechanism for providing this information to your estate)

(Hopefully the thief leaves without shooting you.  In that case you get to keep the rest of your bitcoin for yourself.  Note that your system also does not prevent the thief from shooting you once he thinks the transfer has occurred.)

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October 23, 2012, 05:02:00 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.
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October 23, 2012, 05:12:31 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.
If 1 bitcoin =1000dollars, then still bitcoins would not be worth more than the US dollars.

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October 23, 2012, 05:13:53 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.
If 1 bitcoin =1000dollars, then still bitcoins would not be worth more than the US dollars.

I have no clue what you are saying
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October 23, 2012, 05:27:12 PM
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There isn't really any good way to include a safeguard on Bitcoins that you want to be able to carry around with you and also spend.  But there are ways to separate your Bitcoins into various places with varying levels of protection against theft.  You can have a spending wallet that only contains a small amount that might get stolen, and a savings wallet that you keep in a safe place.

Businesses usually use time-lock safes in order to enable the storage of large sums while discouraging theft.  Put your savings wallet in one of those.

This is the best idea. Or bank safety deposit box.

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October 23, 2012, 06:28:22 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.

"Only" no inflation Cheesy
Show me one other digital currency on this earth with that single advantage?
Bitcoin also has several other unique useful "advantages" (not for all your money but for some of it.) that trumph all other FIAT currencies on this earth.
How else would Bitcoin be used by millions of people to buy cars/boats etc Wink
If Bitcoin does not go away which it wont. It will happen its just a matter of time. 2 years, 4 years or 10 years.

Bitcoin could easily go to $thousands over the next century.






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October 23, 2012, 07:58:16 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.
Fucktard. IF youre going to talk shit to people at least know some shit.

Or better said in this case as, "in your list of only advantages you missed a few":

  • impossible to counterfeit
  • accepted throughout the world
  • has no centralized issuing authority
  • has fungibility
  • has scarcity
  • ease of identifiability
  • ease of divisibility

Furthermore, I can't think of a single merchant who would think that the irreversibility of cash transactions is a bad thing.

In the end it really comes down to mainstream use.  If bitcoin catches on and becomes widely used, it will pretty much have to exceed hundreds of dollars per bitcoin.


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October 23, 2012, 08:38:20 PM
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If people think bitcoins will be worth hundreds of dollars they are dreaming. Why would a virtual currency with only advantages are no inflation and fast transactions (which are offset by irreversible transactions, which is a negative most of the time unless you are dealing in illegal stuff) be worth hundreds of times more than the U.S dollars or other currencies? Be realistic it wont happen.
Fucktard. IF youre going to talk shit to people at least know some shit.

Or better said in this case as, "in your list of only advantages you missed a few":

  • impossible to counterfeit
  • accepted throughout the world
  • has no centralized issuing authority
  • has fungibility
  • has scarcity
  • ease of identifiability
  • ease of divisibility

Furthermore, I can't think of a single merchant who would think that the irreversibility of cash transactions is a bad thing.

In the end it really comes down to mainstream use.  If bitcoin catches on and becomes widely used, it will pretty much have to exceed hundreds of dollars per bitcoin.



Now go ahead and list the disadvantages. They are far more powerful. Terrorist links, money laundering, tax evasion (serious since without taxes you wouldnt have many things that you take for granted everyday,) only 21 million coins possible, not accepted throughout the world only in a very minute part of the population, scams everywhere, extremem difficulty in aquiring the coins themselves.  What you people dont understand about inflation is it will exist anyways with or without bitcoin. Since the cost of goods are going up regardless itll just take more bitcoins to buy the same good. Bitcoins isnt revolutionizing anything its just a cool concept. If it was then bitcoins would be far bigger than it is. Most people have never even heard of bitcoin.
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