If Spain crumbles...

[Blawpaw]

Spain is on the verge of crumbling... Catalonia is fighting for its independency.
What will happen if Spain is to disaggregate? what will be the influence over Europe?

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[patrolman]

Spain is on the verge of crumbling... Catalonia is fighting for its independency.
What will happen if Spain is to disaggregate? what will be the influence over Europe?

I suppose the threat of Catalonia not being able to remain in the EU if they chose to secede is not a threat that holds much weight at the moment. If they are somehow allowed to leave Spain (which is apparently against Spain's current constitution), the EU may make some concession to allow Catalonia to remain, as it needs every vote of confidence it can get at the moment.

[Gronthaing]

Spain is on the verge of crumbling... Catalonia is fighting for its independency.
What will happen if Spain is to disaggregate? what will be the influence over Europe?

I suppose the threat of Catalonia not being able to remain in the EU if they chose to secede is not a threat that holds much weight at the moment. If they are somehow allowed to leave Spain (which is apparently against Spain's current constitution), the EU may make some concession to allow Catalonia to remain, as it needs every vote of confidence it can get at the moment.

Don't think it matters what the spanish constitution says. Not when you have millions on the street on a region with 7.5 million people. But I don't know if they will be allowed to remain in the eu. The region is pro europe and doing well economically. So the eu may want to keep them in somehow. But that would be an exception. And could cause other regions to get more support for doing the same. And spain will probably try to prevent it. Look at their position on kosovo for example.

[saddampbuh]

this came up a lot during the scotland referendum, eu rules are very clear in that a new country would need to apply for membership (which spain could veto)

this is about a wealthy area wanting to avoid paying taxes to support poorer areas of the same country. if spain gives in and people figure out all they need to do is hold a few protests and an illegal referendum to get their way we may see this situation arising elsewhere. this movement needs to be stamped out.

[BADecker]

Lots of folks all over the place are talking about seceding.

In the States, Texas is considering pulling out. Other States have talked about it. The Civil War back in the mid-1800s showed us how NOT to do it, so there will be a better chance of success this time.

It's happening all over the world. People are fed up with living under oppression by other people.

[bryant.coleman]

If Catalonia actually manages to gain independence, then it will trigger a chain reaction in Spain. The other rebellious regions (such as the Basque Country - Navarre, Galicia, Valencia, Asturia.etc) will also step up their attempts to secede from the Spanish rule. Also, it will give a boost to secessionist movements in the other countries, such as Scotland, Corsica, Bretagne, Flanders, Donbass,  South Tyrol.etc.

[countryfree]

The Basque region is the only rebellious region in Spain. The other regions hardly exist besides in the recent history books. Catalans say there were created from scratch when the country set up administrative regions last century.

I don't see Catalonia getting independence soon. Catalans still have a lot to learn, and they hardly exist outside of Spain. Scotland, and the Scottish people, are far more advanced towards their shared goal.

[SerenaL]

If Catalonia actually manages to gain independence, then it will trigger a chain reaction in Spain. The other rebellious regions (such as the Basque Country - Navarre, Galicia, Valencia, Asturia.etc) will also step up their attempts to secede from the Spanish rule. Also, it will give a boost to secessionist movements in the other countries, such as Scotland, Corsica, Bretagne, Flanders, Donbass,  South Tyrol.etc.

I think it will also cause other european countries to split apart as well.

[vero]

The independence movement is going on in countries around the world because the people no longer feel like their governments represent their interests. It is part of human nature to seek maximum autonomy and freedom which government always tends to suppress as it gains power and control over the lives of the people

[bryant.coleman]

The Basque region is the only rebellious region in Spain. The other regions hardly exist besides in the recent history books. Catalans say there were created from scratch when the country set up administrative regions last century.

No. That is not the case. Catalonia has its own language (Catalan) and culture. Same is the case with Asturia, Galicia and Basque. The Spanish central government has been trying to suppress the local languages and cultures for too long. And this is one of the reasons why these regions are trying to break away from Spain.

[countryfree]

The Basque region is the only rebellious region in Spain. The other regions hardly exist besides in the recent history books. Catalans say there were created from scratch when the country set up administrative regions last century.

No. That is not the case. Catalonia has its own language (Catalan) and culture. Same is the case with Asturia, Galicia and Basque. The Spanish central government has been trying to suppress the local languages and cultures for too long. And this is one of the reasons why these regions are trying to break away from Spain.

I meant the Basque region is the only other region besides Catalonia, but most Basques are now happy to be Spanish. Same for people in Asturia. Only Catalonia truly wants to leave despite Spain's allowing nearly everything it wants, just like the other regions. Galician by example is the official language in Galicia, and the region's autonomous so there would be nothing to gain by leaving Spain.

[mtnsaa]

I have a strong spaniard/galician descent and I've been to Catalonia and almost all Spain. Different language to me is the only culprit here in my opinion, when the regional language is different from the country one, the region no longer shares the same culture and this new identity starts boiling. A more extreme case happens when regions have different religions, like Yugoslavia and other similar examples. We know how that turned out.

If Catalonia gains autonomy, then be sure Basque Country will do the same unless this "experiment" proves to be a disaster during that process. I can definitely see Galicia doing the same after that. The only region I have some doubts following this path would be Andalucia, there's not the same strong regionalism and different language usage as the previously mentioned.

[panju1]

If Catalonia actually manages to gain independence, then it will trigger a chain reaction in Spain. The other rebellious regions (such as the Basque Country - Navarre, Galicia, Valencia, Asturia.etc) will also step up their attempts to secede from the Spanish rule. Also, it will give a boost to secessionist movements in the other countries, such as Scotland, Corsica, Bretagne, Flanders, Donbass,  South Tyrol.etc.

I think it will also cause other european countries to split apart as well.

And people were wondering if Europe could have a political union (after it managed to achieve monetary union). 

[Lethn]

It will definitely cause a chain reaction if the economy properly collapses, what will be the key thing though is whether these so called nationalists are really what they claim. If you remember what happened in Greece the idiotic left party that climbed up the polls were practically boasting about how they would not accept austerity then when they actually got into power because their claims were bullshit. When it comes to making the tough choices for independence and the like politicians very often end up going back on their word immediately, I have yet seen a nationalist with balls enough to take the EU.

[Lauda]

Don't think it matters what the spanish constitution says. Not when you have millions on the street on a region with 7.5 million people. But I don't know if they will be allowed to remain in the eu. The region is pro europe and doing well economically. So the eu may want to keep them in somehow. But that would be an exception. And could cause other regions to get more support for doing the same. And spain will probably try to prevent it. Look at their position on kosovo for example.

So a part of a nation wants something really bad, the laws get disregarded? I'm pretty sure that it is not as simple as that. Even though the odds are that Catalonia might separate itself from Spain, this will probably be a very complex process and will carry a lot of problems with it. I've only been in Catalonia when it comes to Spain (last year) and they were rallying for the separation even then. It looks like the people really want this to happen.

this movement needs to be stamped out.

How do you stamp out over 1 million people? Keep in mind that Catalonia is the second region in Spain (by population) and has ~15.9% of the total population (total ~46 million). Catalonia is also first by GRP (nominal).

[BADecker]

Don't think it matters what the spanish constitution says. Not when you have millions on the street on a region with 7.5 million people. But I don't know if they will be allowed to remain in the eu. The region is pro europe and doing well economically. So the eu may want to keep them in somehow. But that would be an exception. And could cause other regions to get more support for doing the same. And spain will probably try to prevent it. Look at their position on kosovo for example.

So a part of a nation wants something really bad, the laws get disregarded? I'm pretty sure that it is not as simple as that. Even though the odds are that Catalonia might separate itself from Spain, this will probably be a very complex process and will carry a lot of problems with it. I've only been in Catalonia when it comes to Spain (last year) and they were rallying for the separation even then. It looks like the people really want this to happen.

Why is someone part of a nation? Did they sign a contract to be such? Were they born within the nation? Remember, somebody else is telling them that this is a nation. Are they within because they were tempted by some benefit that the nation offered them? If they own private property, is it in the nation simply because someone else said so?

Perhaps the government has slaves, and the people don't know it. Consider this for any nation, any government, any people. The boundaries and borders are disappearing. It shows by the way people are interacting internationally.

The U.N. is there to capitalize on this whole thing when the governments fall apart.

this movement needs to be stamped out.

How do you stamp out over 1 million people? Keep in mind that Catalonia is the second region in Spain (by population) and has ~15.9% of the total population (total ~46 million). Catalonia is also first by GRP (nominal).

That's what happens in the States every election. Usually the presidential elections are close elections. Thus 51% get what they want, and 49% are forced into it. Then the 51% realize the mistake they made, and there is a bitter taste in their mouth. What most of them don't realize is, that by their voting they are participating in the system, and agreeing to whatever is done to them.

[Lenore]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

[BADecker]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

Spain never was Spain. None of the other nations are what they are either. The governments are a handful of shrewd people, who take control, and for their own profit draw up the maps of the world, claiming the boundaries of their pet nation. If your house and land fall within the boundaries, then you are part of that nation whether you like it or not. You gotta pay taxes.

When you go to the store, and you buy a product, you get a receipt that says, you paid xxx money for such and such a product. There isn't anything hazy about it. You know what you paid, and you know what you received in return. But it isn't like this with taxes.

With taxes you never get a receipt that shows what your tax money paid for, and the precise benefit you personally received for your the xxx money of your tax payment. Government is a handful of people ripping you off! It's all about slavery. Government has made you a slave. Your nation has made you a slave within it.

Watch "TheTinyDot" video by Larken Rose to see what I mean.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

[Lenore]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

Spain never was Spain. None of the other nations are what they are either. The governments are a handful of shrewd people, who take control, and for their own profit draw up the maps of the world, claiming the boundaries of their pet nation. If your house and land fall within the boundaries, then you are part of that nation whether you like it or not. You gotta pay taxes.

When you go to the store, and you buy a product, you get a receipt that says, you paid xxx money for such and such a product. There isn't anything hazy about it. You know what you paid, and you know what you received in return. But it isn't like this with taxes.

With taxes you never get a receipt that shows what your tax money paid for, and the precise benefit you personally received for your the xxx money of your tax payment. Government is a handful of people ripping you off! It's all about slavery. Government has made you a slave. Your nation has made you a slave within it.

Watch "TheTinyDot" video by Larken Rose to see what I mean.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6b70TUbdfs

Almost makes me want to invade.   Wonder if I have enough friends for that.   Prolly not.   lol

[bryant.coleman]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

Spain will remain as Spain and Spanish will remain as the official language. If you look closely, most of the rebellious regions are having their own languages and customs, and they don't want their lives to be dominated by the Spanish. For example, Catalonia has the Catalan and Aranese languages, Asturia has the Asturian language, Galicia has Galician, Basque has Euskara, Valencia has Valencian, and the other regions have languages such as Aragonese, Leonese, Cantabrian, Extremaduran.etc. Once these regions break away, only the Spanish speaking regions will be left with Spain.

[Lenore]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

Spain will remain as Spain and Spanish will remain as the official language. If you look closely, most of the rebellious regions are having their own languages and customs, and they don't want their lives to be dominated by the Spanish. For example, Catalonia has the Catalan and Aranese languages, Asturia has the Asturian language, Galicia has Galician, Basque has Euskara, Valencia has Valencian, and the other regions have languages such as Aragonese, Leonese, Cantabrian, Extremaduran.etc. Once these regions break away, only the Spanish speaking regions will be left with Spain.

Makes sense.   I know a few people from spain and they mentioned the same thing to me before.   It will always stay the same.   More then likely anyways.

[Gronthaing]

Don't think it matters what the spanish constitution says. Not when you have millions on the street on a region with 7.5 million people. But I don't know if they will be allowed to remain in the eu. The region is pro europe and doing well economically. So the eu may want to keep them in somehow. But that would be an exception. And could cause other regions to get more support for doing the same. And spain will probably try to prevent it. Look at their position on kosovo for example.

So a part of a nation wants something really bad, the laws get disregarded?

Laws have no meaning if there is no one following them. And societies change. So must laws if they are to stay relevant.

I'm pretty sure that it is not as simple as that. Even though the odds are that Catalonia might separate itself from Spain, this will probably be a very complex process and will carry a lot of problems with it. I've only been in Catalonia when it comes to Spain (last year) and they were rallying for the separation even then. It looks like the people really want this to happen.

Never said it was going to be a simple process. If you read all my post before commenting you would have seen that.

[countryfree]

I guess Spain won be Spain any ore will it.  Wonder who will take it over and what the new name will be?

Spain will remain as Spain and Spanish will remain as the official language. If you look closely, most of the rebellious regions are having their own languages and customs, and they don't want their lives to be dominated by the Spanish. For example, Catalonia has the Catalan and Aranese languages, Asturia has the Asturian language, Galicia has Galician, Basque has Euskara, Valencia has Valencian, and the other regions have languages such as Aragonese, Leonese, Cantabrian, Extremaduran.etc. Once these regions break away, only the Spanish speaking regions will be left with Spain.

Makes sense.   I know a few people from spain and they mentioned the same thing to me before.   It will always stay the same.   More then likely anyways.

Let's not exaggerate, there are only 3 languages actually spoken by a sizable number of people in Spain. Catalan, Galician and Spanish. Valencian? That's another name for Catalan. It's the same language.

Some Catalans go as far as saying that Spanish doesn't exist, that this language is actually Castillian, but even Catalan nationalists speak some Spanish. They say one sentence in Catalan and the following one in Spanish.

[BADecker]

Everything is based on strength. If the Catalonians are stronger legally, or sufficiently strong physically, there will be change. It will be based on compromise.

The point is, governments are changing because the crooks in government are making mistakes that are harming the people.

I foresee and expect a banking collapse, which will bring on a governmental collapse, worldwide. The face of the world will change. It won't only be Spain.

Right now, there are States in the USA that are looking at the idea of secession. Texas is one of them. And it is built right into the contract Texas has with the U.S.  They can legally pull out if they want.

Government speeches, and the media, are full of propaganda designed to weaken the thinking of people who seem to be determined.

[bryant.coleman]

Let's not exaggerate, there are only 3 languages actually spoken by a sizable number of people in Spain. Catalan, Galician and Spanish. Valencian? That's another name for Catalan. It's the same language.

So according to you, the Basque language (Euskara) doesn't exist? The discrimination over language use has been sighted as one of the preliminary reasons for the violent secessionist activity in that region. Languages such as Extremaduran and Asturian are now spoken only by small minorities, but they are gaining popularity as the ethnic revival sets in.

[countryfree]

Let's not exaggerate, there are only 3 languages actually spoken by a sizable number of people in Spain. Catalan, Galician and Spanish. Valencian? That's another name for Catalan. It's the same language.

So according to you, the Basque language (Euskara) doesn't exist? The discrimination over language use has been sighted as one of the preliminary reasons for the violent secessionist activity in that region. Languages such as Extremaduran and Asturian are now spoken only by small minorities, but they are gaining popularity as the ethnic revival sets in.

I HAVEN'T said that the Basque language doesn't exist. Only that there are very few people actually speaking it. Same goes for Asturian and the other regional languages. The ethnic revival isn't important. What drives people to wear "República Catalana" T-shirts in Barcelona is selfishness. They say they are the most successful Spaniards and that they should not pay for the laggards in the South.