Inaba's request

[ElectricMucus]

I can't wait to rub it in Inabas face that BFL didn't meet their promised power efficiency ratings along with his rambling about the ROI of said worse efficiency for the users.

At this point I am almost certain they will fail their own specs, if they even deliver  
This would be even more awesome if their competition would straight out say they were going for FPGA conversion chips and linking to the actual manufacturer with the chips in BFLs devices turning out to be exactly the same thing with sanded off labels. 

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[ralree]

So let's put some figures together...

Let's a say a professional miner has $100K to invest in mining hardware and is in a good area where power costs only $0.06/kwh.

In the GPU era, with 23 TH network hashrate and 50 BTC block reward, he can buy about 190 GH of GPUs which will use about 63kW of power and earn about $21.5K per month, minus about $2700 for power, for 18.8% monthly ROI.

In the ASIC era, with 280 TH network hashrate and 25 BTC block reward, he can buy about 4600 GH of BFL ASICs which will use about 4.6kW of power and earn about $21.4K per month, minus about $200 for power, for 21.2% monthly ROI.

$200/mo for powering BFL ASICs is quite an improvement over $2700/mo for GPUs.

Now let's imagine a 54 GH bASIC were to use 405W (which I don't believe will be the case):
He can buy about 5100 GH of bASICs which will use about 38kW of power and earn about $23.7K per month, minus about $1600 for power, for 22.1% monthly ROI. Hey, we're ahead of BFL still! But putting that point aside, we would only be twice as power efficient as GPUs

Now let's try a more realistic scenario, where a 54 GH bASIC might use 120W (this is my personal wild guess):
He can buy about 5100 GH of bASICs which will use about 11kW of power and earn about $23.7K per month, minus about $480 for power, for 23.2% monthly ROI. Even better ROI. And now we've cut our power bill to 1/6 of GPUs, very nice.

DISCLAIMER: We really don't know yet how much power the bASICs will use. The wattage figures for bASIC above are purely hypothetical and probably wildly wrong.

I like this analysis   We'll see what the price crash today does to it..

[Mobius]

Always ask yourself what your break even is.

[firefop]

Very interesting numbers Keefe, Thanks alot !

As I read, it seems more and more clear that the future of mining, in the long run, will mainly be about power cost.  I'd like to know if someone has made some research about solar powered mining rig...  As the solar is'nt a constant source of power, what are the odds ?

Here the power cost is arround 0.085 CAD/Kwh..  So, if I'll enjoy mining for few years again, at least I hope to !

Thanks again Keefe, and as almost everyone reading this thread, curious to see what the 3 known asic producer will have on the table at delivery

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

Personally, I bought B grade 5inch panels and built it myself. For under $7500 total. You can get b grade panels for a buck a watt. Since I don't care about being "off the grid", I use grid tied inverters, running my overage back into the gride during the day, and consuming grid power at night. Electric bill... Is less than they pay for postage to mail it to me, and about 12 bucks in taxes.

[mrb]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

[crazyates]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

If he's generating 5000kwh for only $25,000, I'd say I'm in the wrong business!

[jjiimm_64]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

He must, cause I am using 24.5 Kw (over 110 amps, most at 220) and my main is warm to the touch  I doubt if a roof full of solar panals could even keep me running.

[organofcorti]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

Not unless he's also including the estimated lifetime of the solar panels in the price. It could be he's expecting the whole thing to only last 1000 hours at 5kW

[crazyates]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

Not unless he's also including the estimated lifetime of the solar panels in the price. It could be he's expecting the whole thing to only last 1000 hours at 5kW

5000kwhat $0.15/kwh would cost ~$750USD . Why would you pay $25,000 for $750 worth of electricity?

[organofcorti]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

Not unless he's also including the estimated lifetime of the solar panels in the price. It could be he's expecting the whole thing to only last 1000 hours at 5kW

5000kwhat $0.15/kwh would cost ~$750USD . Why would you pay $25,000 for $750 worth of electricity?

Well apart from the fact that some parts of the world pay more than twice that for electricity, I've drawn a picture of you below:


 - - - - - - joke - - - - >

crazyates

[crazyates]

Yes, I'm running my entire mining operation (and actually a lot of other computer hardware) exclusively off solar power. You can purchase a retail solar system for ~$25,000 that will generate around 5000kwh , if you're willing to install it yourself.

You probably mean 5kW.

Not unless he's also including the estimated lifetime of the solar panels in the price. It could be he's expecting the whole thing to only last 1000 hours at 5kW

5000kwhat $0.15/kwh would cost ~$750USD . Why would you pay $25,000 for $750 worth of electricity?

Well apart from the fact that some parts of the world pay more than twice that for electricity, I've drawn a picture of you below:

I thought about that as well, but then realized you'd have to pay $5/kwh to be about the same as this.

I've drawn a picture of you below:


 - - - - - - joke - - - - >

crazyates

I realized this about 10 seconds after I posted.  I think I need sleep 

[Nemesis]

i think he meant he can use 5000kwh a month off the grid.

Thats effectively = 5000 / 720 = 7kwh.

Which is possible if you have space for all the panels

[legitnick]

On a side note I remember why I stopped mining:

[Starlightbreaker]

.89c/kwh ftw.

[firefop]

i think he meant he can use 5000kwh a month off the grid.

Thats effectively = 5000 / 720 = 7kwh.

Which is possible if you have space for all the panels

I'm sorry that is correct.

~5000kwh per month, but we run several households - the bunker (yah it's my datacenter/office and it used to be a fallout shelter) and all our other power needs almost entirely from solar...

It isn't on anyone's roof tho... we've got a shallow southward facing hill that was perfect for putting panels on.

[Nemesis]

i think he meant he can use 5000kwh a month off the grid.

Thats effectively = 5000 / 720 = 7kwh.

Which is possible if you have space for all the panels

I'm sorry that is correct.

~5000kwh per month, but we run several households - the bunker (yah it's my datacenter/office and it used to be a fallout shelter) and all our other power needs almost entirely from solar...

It isn't on anyone's roof tho... we've got a shallow southward facing hill that was perfect for putting panels on.

You're very lucky then. Great landscape for many things. I have hobbies that require tons of space hence... i can only pick one or two and change them seasonally.

[SolarSilver]

5000kwhat $0.15/kwh would cost ~$750USD . Why would you pay $25,000 for $750 worth of electricity?

I paid EUR 100k for 30k Wp system, so in my region that generates about 30.000 kWh per year. In average that is 2500 kWh per month, at our current prices that is a value of EUR 550 per month. So about 15 years until break-even if no parts like the inverter need to be replaced after 10 years.

Yes, those numbers sound odd and at a loss, but the government (via taxes on other electricity consumers) pays EUR 10k / year in subsidies for the system, for the next 20 years. That puts things in a different perspective (especially as the entire purchase is paid for with a loan that is paid off by the subsidies)

[ElectricMucus]

5000kwhat $0.15/kwh would cost ~$750USD . Why would you pay $25,000 for $750 worth of electricity?

I paid EUR 100k for 30k Wp system, so in my region that generates about 30.000 kWh per year. In average that is 2500 kWh per month, at our current prices that is a value of EUR 550 per month. So about 15 years until break-even if no parts like the inverter need to be replaced after 10 years.

Yes, those numbers sound odd and at a loss, but the government (via taxes on other electricity consumers) pays EUR 10k / year in subsidies for the system, for the next 20 years. That puts things in a different perspective (especially as the entire purchase is paid for with a loan that is paid off by the subsidies)

In other words when Gov. is out of money to pay your subsidies you're fucked.
Nice plan you have there.

[SolarSilver]

In other words when Gov. is out of money to pay your subsidies you're fucked.
Nice plan you have there.

Nope, when Gov. is out of money to pay the subsidies then the bank is fucked and the government needs to bail them out.
That the really nice part of the plan.

(But the government does not have to pay these subsidies out of it's own pocket, there is a green tax on all sold electricity from non-green sources like nuclear and gas turbine installations, so the subsidies are 100% paid by those who don't use green power, not the government)

[legitnick]

.89c/kwh ftw.

O_o