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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 134393 times)
Ichthyo
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April 27, 2013, 04:26:40 PM
 #1021

It is too bad the USD withdrawal issue cannot be solved in some creative way as Bitcoin charts has btceUSD volume at > 5,000 BTC for the last 24 hours and in fact btceUSD 30 day USD volume is higher than bitstampUSD.

I know BTC-E would be good, but they are always far below the price of Mtgox/Bitstamp, and our USD reserve would be quickly exhausted and we would have to keep sending them money.

It can be foreseen, that -- the moment Bitfinex would create an easy arbitration possibility -- this would create a huge and constant flow of USD towards BTC-e. This situation would persist, until BTC-e is effectively coupled to the "weight center" of the overall BTC exchange market. From that point on, there would be occasional high swings of money flow over this "Bitfinex-link", both in USD and BTC from time to time.

A similar situation would arise if Bitfinex would manage to establish a link to some Chinese exchange. The first one managing to establish such a thing will get a huge proportion of newly created volume, reap a lot of trading fees, but also gets to handle the major problem of any growing pains, and especially the uncertainty of the legal situation.

Building such large scale new structures in the BTC exchange market is indeed a major undertaking, and would require a lot of preparation and actual negotiations. Both sides would have to cooperate really on such a thing, maybe even involving a third partner (BitInstant, AurumXchange or the like) for managing the money flow.

I think, for us Bitfinex users it is understandable that not all of this can be achieved right now, with a single blow. Bitfinex has seen a tremendous growth, seems to have a larger team now, and overall has managed quite well to keep the technical side of things up to the challenge. But I'm sure they need some additional efforts behind the scenes to consolidate all these achievements.
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unclescrooge
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April 27, 2013, 04:31:27 PM
 #1022

But I'm sure they need some additional efforts behind the scenes to consolidate all these achievements.

You are damn right Smiley

Raphael

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April 27, 2013, 04:39:57 PM
 #1023

It is too bad the USD withdrawal issue cannot be solved in some creative way as Bitcoin charts has btceUSD volume at > 5,000 BTC for the last 24 hours and in fact btceUSD 30 day USD volume is higher than bitstampUSD.

I know BTC-E would be good, but they are always far below the price of Mtgox/Bitstamp, and our USD reserve would be quickly exhausted and we would have to keep sending them money.

It can be foreseen, that -- the moment Bitfinex would create an easy arbitration possibility -- this would create a huge and constant flow of USD towards BTC-e. This situation would persist, until BTC-e is effectively coupled to the "weight center" of the overall BTC exchange market. From that point on, there would be occasional high swings of money flow over this "Bitfinex-link", both in USD and BTC from time to time.

A similar situation would arise if Bitfinex would manage to establish a link to some Chinese exchange. The first one managing to establish such a thing will get a huge proportion of newly created volume, reap a lot of trading fees, but also gets to handle the major problem of any growing pains, and especially the uncertainty of the legal situation.

Building such large scale new structures in the BTC exchange market is indeed a major undertaking, and would require a lot of preparation and actual negotiations. Both sides would have to cooperate really on such a thing, maybe even involving a third partner (BitInstant, AurumXchange or the like) for managing the money flow.

I think, for us Bitfinex users it is understandable that not all of this can be achieved right now, with a single blow. Bitfinex has seen a tremendous growth, seems to have a larger team now, and overall has managed quite well to keep the technical side of things up to the challenge. But I'm sure they need some additional efforts behind the scenes to consolidate all these achievements.

Yup, as I said, you guys at Bitfinex are perhaps pioneers when it comes to Bitcoin trading decentralization, yes always work with things at your hand but think farther. Smiley

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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April 27, 2013, 05:15:03 PM
 #1024

Yup, as I said, you guys at Bitfinex are perhaps pioneers when it comes to Bitcoin trading decentralization, yes always work with things at your hand but think farther. Smiley
is just matter of time and coding power  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 27, 2013, 06:19:17 PM
 #1025

Do I have to keep a BTC balance for margin trading?  I have tried to convert BTC into $ in my trading wallet.

I.e. I'm long BTC in my balance and short with a margin trade. How do I convert my BTC balance into USD?

(Actually quite a bunch of things which are not entirely clear. "no reserve active" as a status order, ordercount, etc. The relationship between leverage and required margin doesn't make much sense. 10% would be 10:1, but it is at 2.5:1.)
molecular
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April 27, 2013, 06:50:08 PM
 #1026

I see the Bitstamp orders, very nice, testing it out!

I predict that very soon the arbitrage opportunity between Gox and Bitstamp will disappear, while the Bitfinex volume will spike up. Grin
FAR OUT!  This is a great accomplishment and thank you.  BitFinEx just became the best trading platform.

+1. thanks guys, awesome work!!

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Ichthyo
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April 27, 2013, 07:42:49 PM
 #1027

Do I have to keep a BTC balance for margin trading?  I have tried to convert BTC into $ in my trading wallet.

Not necessarily. You can have both USD and BTC as collateral in your trading account. The current value of that collateral is what is called margin. This is the reference for the amount of leverage (borrowed additional money) you get for trading. Whenever your trading losses have eaten up to XX% of your current margin, you get a "margin call" and your position will be force liquidated.

I.e. I'm long BTC in my balance and short with a margin trade. How do I convert my BTC balance into USD?

Basically you can always transfer some value from your trading account into the exchange account (use the "manege wallets" tab). Then you can buy/sell on the integrated exchange, which also targets the same combined market available for trading (now including Bitstamp; hey, isn't this cool). As a last step, you'll have to transfer the results back into the trading account.

There are some things to watch though:
  • you can only move away excess liquidity from the trading account. The amount actually used as margin to cover your current positions is of course locked and can not be moved away. Thus you'd inject some additional liquidity and you need to do this exchanging business in several steps
  • Please watch out the effect of BTC used to fund the margin. BTC value can change dramatically. Thus, by a BTC rate move, your effective margin can also change dramatically. At times, this works like an afterburner (when you're long on BTC), allowing you to crank up your position during a rally, or it can drive you into a forced liquidation way sooner than you'd expect.

Thus, when keeping a position open for an extended period of time, I'd highly recommend to manage the funds in your trading account apropriately. E.g. when you decide to keep a long position open, but expect a bit of a dip, then at least exchange your BTC to USD.
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April 28, 2013, 01:36:17 AM
 #1028

Yup, as I said, you guys at Bitfinex are perhaps pioneers when it comes to Bitcoin trading decentralization, yes always work with things at your hand but think farther. Smiley
is just matter of time and coding power  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

Well, Bitcoin was just a matter of time and coding power. Wink

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
wamatt
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April 28, 2013, 03:45:54 AM
 #1029



2. I added Bitstamp routing option, Mtgox may come later.

I have some cleaning to do in the FAQ and explanations pages Smiley

Have a nice day
Raphael
Bitfinex team

Very nice. Kudos BFX.

Raphael I have a question. When placing an ASK earlier, I selected the Bitstamp route. I can see the active order on my BFX screen (#108720), and it lists the route as BSTP, however the order does not show up on the Bitstamp order book.

https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/

Any ideas?

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April 28, 2013, 04:41:08 AM
 #1030


Very nice. Kudos BFX.

Raphael I have a question. When placing an ASK earlier, I selected the Bitstamp route. I can see the active order on my BFX screen (#108720), and it lists the route as BSTP, however the order does not show up on the Bitstamp order book.

https://www.bitstamp.net/market/order_book/

Any ideas?


hi, so far there are no hard orders for bitstamp so you cant raise walls whit leverage

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
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April 28, 2013, 05:23:34 AM
 #1031

hi, so far there are no hard orders for bitstamp so you cant raise walls whit leverage

OIC, I assumed that because the interface showed a route, it meant it was a hard route. Thanks for clarifying.
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April 28, 2013, 10:18:34 AM
 #1032

how is orderbook display sorted?



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unclescrooge
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April 28, 2013, 12:05:29 PM
 #1033

how is orderbook display sorted?




Hello,

When sorting orders, we take fees into account.

On your screenshot for example, the mtgox order real price (with 0.5% fees) is 131.620125 USD, while the Bitstamp order at 131.95 usd is, with 0.25% fees, at 131.620125 USD. Hence why it come before the Mtgox order.

Since fees are difference for various platform, this allow you to get the best deal.

Let me know if it explains things.
Best regards
Raphael

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April 28, 2013, 02:05:01 PM
 #1034

Is it possible to not round the displayed values because it's confusing. I have 0.9969 Bitcoins, but the interface displays it as 1.0 on the orderbook and the stats on the right side.
The only place that displays it without rounding is the 'Manage Wallets' page.

BTC:1AiCRMxgf1ptVQwx6hDuKMu4f7F27QmJC2
urwhatuknow
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April 28, 2013, 02:29:01 PM
 #1035

Dear Customers

since yesterday around noon we started offering (one week ahead of the forecasted deadline) the possibility to trade on Bitstamp.
The reaction of you all has been very positive and this is something we are very happy about.
Among all the disruptive innovations that Bitfinex is bringing to the Bitcoin world surely one of the most important is that it's the only meta exchange that offers the possibility to trade not only on its local platform, but also on others ( 2 from yesterday  ) therefore maximizing the possibility of always sell at the highest possible price and buy at the lowest possible price.
The acceptance of our new trading partner has been enthusiastic, lots of positive comments arrived here, by email or on our dedicated forum.
Not only that.
About 25% of the trading flow instantaneously migrated to Bitstamp allowing us to gain more independency.
We now feel much safer as our customers have an option to trade elsewhere should MtGox service be suspended again.
This month has been tough, but we made it.
We lost some money because of MtGox outages, re-quotes, cached orderbook and non willingness to give us a dedicated API line that would allow Bitfinex to guarantee a better service to our customers.
All this came with a lot of frustration.
But on the other hand we understand the importance of offering also this liquidity option and we will keep it open despite all the bad moments they gave to us in the last days.
No matter what happens we are here to stay and this month has been very positive for Bitfinex
(and a very negative one for the ones betting that we were going to go belly up ).
Bitfloor, Bitcoin-Central and another bunch of smaller players went down, but we stood.
We have been learning a helluvalot and we are stronger now than what we were only 30 days ago.
More and more customers are joining every day, even though we never spent 1 Satoshi on advertisement.
Word of mouth proves to be the best way to advertise your business.
Interest rates for lenders are very interesting (ok, ok, it couldn't last at the same levels as the 10th of April, but it is still very very very good.... ) and borrowers are making good money too.
Forced liquidations are becoming rarer (also due to lowered leverage and increased margin requirements) and the we are preparing for the next price raise when you will all go crazy again.
We are currently working on API implementation to increase the liquidity on our platform.

We have only one request for you: before you place the next order please consider voting with your wallet.
Route your order either on our domestic platform or on both BFX and BSTP.
The goal is to get one third of the volume on each platform ( currently 20% BFX, 25% BSTP, 55% GOX)

Thanks again for your support and keep up the good trading.

Go bitcoin go.

Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Team

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Worldcore
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im3w1l
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April 28, 2013, 03:17:21 PM
 #1036

Dear Customers
 ...
Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Team

This is very positive news!
wamatt
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April 29, 2013, 02:26:34 AM
 #1037

When sorting orders, we take fees into account.

On your screenshot for example, the mtgox order real price (with 0.5% fees) is 131.620125 USD, while the Bitstamp order at 131.95 usd is, with 0.25% fees, at 131.620125 USD. Hence why it come before the Mtgox order.

Fantastic, this should help put a bit of pressure on MtGox to lower fees, since trades will be match with Bitstamp first. (providing BSTP has availability).



TimJBenham
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April 29, 2013, 06:52:42 AM
 #1038

Bug.

Average rates of the open loans (positions) as of April 29, 2013 - 01:50:26 AM CDT. ... Average loan period ... USD ... 5656086.0 days

Wow, the *average* loan term is over 15,000 years! You have some very patient lenders on the books.

You are a warlord in the outskirts of the known world struggling to establish a kingdom in the wild lands.
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April 29, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
 #1039

Bug.

Average rates of the open loans (positions) as of April 29, 2013 - 01:50:26 AM CDT. ... Average loan period ... USD ... 5656086.0 days

Wow, the *average* loan term is over 15,000 years! You have some very patient lenders on the books.
i emailed R about this and is not a bug  the average did go up because a user did loan USD for 2147483647 days (yes over 5 millions years)

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
unclescrooge
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April 29, 2013, 09:02:21 AM
 #1040

When sorting orders, we take fees into account.

On your screenshot for example, the mtgox order real price (with 0.5% fees) is 131.620125 USD, while the Bitstamp order at 131.95 usd is, with 0.25% fees, at 131.620125 USD. Hence why it come before the Mtgox order.

Fantastic, this should help put a bit of pressure on MtGox to lower fees, since trades will be match with Bitstamp first. (providing BSTP has availability).





Smiley

More later on this

Raphael

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