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Author Topic: [BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading  (Read 136682 times)
unclescrooge
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May 01, 2013, 08:00:13 PM
 #1101

WOW.

Holding from a buy my position from $142 was just completely forced liquidated at $110, no notice/email/anything whatsoever and the required margin was nowhere near what I had available. I still had more than enough to cover in the account, I even still have .6 BTC after forced liquidation of entire position Then it in turn sold my BTC's @ 108. This is absolute insanity. Loans were to expire in about 1 month. I have high fortitude and would have kept holding. Just lost more than 2 Bitcoins because of this. Was so excited about Bitfinex since the error pages and other errors went away Sad

This is SERIOUSLY not cool. Can I get any type of aid please?


Username: graphicimpulse



Hello,

You got liquidated (margin) at 110 USD/BTC as your net value got under the minimum requirement which is position base * position amount * margin requirements (10%).

I am sorry for your loss but margin call got triggered as expected in your case, at 110 USD/BTC, and executed at 108 USD/BTC. You can send me an email if you want more detailed calculation about this liquidation.

best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team
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Spaceman_Spiff
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May 01, 2013, 08:26:41 PM
 #1102

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?
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May 01, 2013, 08:27:09 PM
 #1103

I'm not a trader at all, but it seems to me that these numbers can be calculated already when opening a position... maybe they can be displayed too?

Something like "with your current funds of x USD, your position will trigger a margin call at y and be closed at z".

Could be the case that this is either already visible or common knowledge to traders that they are expected to calculate that themselves but it might help less experienced ones to know what's going on...

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
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May 01, 2013, 08:27:45 PM
 #1104

I'm not a trader at all, but it seems to me that these numbers can be calculated already when opening a position... maybe they can be displayed too?

Something like "with your current funds of x USD, your position will trigger a margin call at y and be closed at z".

Could be the case that this is either already visible or common knowledge to traders that they are expected to calculate that themselves but it might help less experienced ones to know what's going on...

true, that would be a handy feature.
GraphicImpulse
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May 01, 2013, 08:35:37 PM
 #1105

My gripe here now is not with the loss.

My gripe is the fact that they did NOT issue a margin call as they say they do. I got no notice whatsoever, not even an email that a trade went though. If I had notice of this, I would have added more to hold my position. They did not issue a notice and I was completely 100% unaware. Simple as that. If you think I was going to sell the position at a loss exactly where the intended bounce-off point was, you are out of your mind and are a crook. OF COURSE I would have put more funds in my account if I had any notice. I had no time to respond proactively as there was a failure to deliver the margin call.




"What's your Margin Call Policy?

After you've logged in, you can immediately see your real-time account Net Value (total assets) and Maintenance (minimum net value). When your Net Value falls below twice the amount of Maintenance, we will issue a margin call. If you don't deposit funds before your Net Value falls below Maintenance, your positions will be liquidated automatically."
Sukrim
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May 01, 2013, 08:46:12 PM
 #1106

What kind of notification besides mail (I'm not too sure that works reliably and spam filters can be a bitch) would you suggest? Text messages? UI popups and flashes? Sounds?

If you know from the start how low you could go, I'm not even sure these notifications are needed, there could be specialized services to notify you if prices touch certain points...

Not cool to not receive anything though!

https://bitfinex.com <-- leveraged trading of BTCUSD, LTCUSD and LTCBTC (long and short) - 10% discount on fees for the first 30 days with this refcode: x5K9YtL3Zb
Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf
nrd525
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May 01, 2013, 08:59:42 PM
 #1107

I would like a "forced liquidation" price to be displayed.  So this would tell you what price BTC had to go up to (if you are shorting) or down to (if you are going long) for your account to be liquidated.

It could do all the math for you and also take into account the change in value of your BTC  margin.

Don't day trade.
GraphicImpulse
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May 01, 2013, 09:48:30 PM
 #1108

What kind of notification besides mail (I'm not too sure that works reliably and spam filters can be a bitch) would you suggest? Text messages? UI popups and flashes? Sounds?

If you know from the start how low you could go, I'm not even sure these notifications are needed, there could be specialized services to notify you if prices touch certain points...

Not cool to not receive anything though!

Just email, I have it set up on a specific email that updates every 10s for a god damn reason! I didn't even get a single notice (not even the usual email when trades are accepted, just awful). I used Bitfinex due to the stoplosses and emails because without it trading is extremely time consuming having to watch the ticker. Not receiving any margin call or notice whatsoever absolutely defeats the entire purpose I used this service for as I live an extremely hectic and busy lifestyle.

I initially read their FAQ and took it as truth. 2BTC down the drain. My fault I guess?
oakpacific
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May 02, 2013, 01:17:56 AM
 #1109

Orders can not be routed to Bitstamp! What's hapeening?  Huh

https://tlsnotary.org/ Fraud proofing decentralized fiat-Bitcoin trading.
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May 02, 2013, 01:41:27 AM
 #1110

QUestions


1) If I set a limit order as a take profit and a stop order as stop loss. If one of them triggers will the other be canceled automaticly?


2) Margin Balance, Tradable Balance, Margin Requiered....would be helpfull to have those indicated as in Bitcoins as well. Especialy Tradable Balance, because it would automaticly indicate how much Bitcoins one could max. buy or sell.

Ichthyo
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May 02, 2013, 05:15:10 AM
 #1111

1) If I set a limit order as a take profit and a stop order as stop loss. If one of them triggers will the other be canceled automaticly?

Yes thats a problem I do encounter frequently. Unfortunately there is no way to link those orders together. Thus this approach could be potentially dangerous, leaving you e.g. with a heavily loosing short position in case bothe orders do trigger accidentally.

But to understand why it is not simple to link orders together, consider that it is very common to break down your orders into multiple parts, e.g. multiple trailing stops with different distances, or splitting a stop loss in two parts, sitting behind two existing bid walls, allowing to mitigate the risk. Given such possibilities, how would the system be able to tell which profit taking order belongs to which stop order? How would you show in the GUI which order is linked to which other order?

Such things would indeed be very helpful, but probably would bring us into the realm of programmable trading bots.

Incidentally, I often wondered what would happen, if someone came up with a site, where "average joe" could easily click together a trading strategy bot out of basic building blocks. I mean, what would be the effect on the market as a whole? (since any kind of bot has the nasty property of running amok and behave completely logically but absolutely counter the intuition of his creator -- and "average joe" has certainly not the skills to analyse such a situation and implement the necessary safeguards)

2) Margin Balance, Tradable Balance, Margin Requiered....would be helpfull to have those indicated as in Bitcoins as well. Especialy Tradable Balance, because it would automaticly indicate how much Bitcoins one could max. buy or sell.

The system does the basic calculations in $, and thus there is a reason to indicate the Margin in $ too.
But I agree that it would be really helpful to have the Tradable Balance in BTC, since the position size is controlled in terms of BTC. I find myself using a calculator frequently when opening or increasing a position.
acf6996
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May 02, 2013, 08:07:38 AM
 #1112

Two more feature requests:


1) Please add the option to enter a take profit price to the margin trading for limit orders.

As soon as an order is (partially) executed and has a take profit price set, a new limit order is created to liquidate this (partial) position at the given take profit price.

The take profit price has to be in front of the limit price. Otherwise the order is rejected.

for example:
 
bid 50@117.5 tp: 120.3    is ok
bid 50@117.5 tp: 116.4    is rejected


2) Please allow price and size modifications of existing orders



wamatt
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May 02, 2013, 08:58:20 AM
 #1113

I would love to see to these things.

1) Ability to keep loans after closing a position.
2) Ability to swap loans out, despite a negative tradable balance.
3) Ability to have a "timeout" on an open order...will help reduce forgotten orders.

myself
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May 02, 2013, 12:08:17 PM
 #1114

1) Ability to keep loans after closing a position.
hello i already commented on this and user need to be aware that such a thing will also remove the trader option to close the loan when he wants and it will be forced to keep the loan for full time for example this will go against the trader if he take a loan for X time period and the interest rate was Y but after some time the market interest rate goes down said trader will needs to pay the Y interest rate, users/trader need to understand that this is a sword that cut both ways Smiley

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
GraphicImpulse
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May 02, 2013, 12:17:36 PM
 #1115

Put withdrawal request in yesterday.. now it's cancelled as of 2 hours ago whilst sleeping AND it charged the transaction fee, this service continues to amaze me.  Trying again...



Would be cool to get a response about not receiving any type of margin call notification as well. Email support simply stopped responding as well.
wamatt
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May 02, 2013, 12:46:27 PM
 #1116

1) Ability to keep loans after closing a position.
hello i already commented on this and user need to be aware that such a thing will also remove the trader option to close the loan when he wants and it will be forced to keep the loan for full time for example this will go against the trader if he take a loan for X time period and the interest rate was Y but after some time the market interest rate goes down said trader will needs to pay the Y interest rate, users/trader need to understand that this is a sword that cut both ways Smiley

Ok thanks.. yeah that makes sense.
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May 02, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
 #1117

1) Ability to keep loans after closing a position.
hello i already commented on this and user need to be aware that such a thing will also remove the trader option to close the loan when he wants and it will be forced to keep the loan for full time for example this will go against the trader if he take a loan for X time period and the interest rate was Y but after some time the market interest rate goes down said trader will needs to pay the Y interest rate, users/trader need to understand that this is a sword that cut both ways Smiley

Ok thanks.. yeah that makes sense.
i have nothing against this type of loans for me it can be the both type of loans working on parallel but i think is important that users see the whole picture  Grin

Los desesperados publican que lo inventó el rey que rabió, porque todo son en el rabias y mas rabias, disgustos y mas disgustos, pezares y mas pezares; si el que compra algunas partidas vé que baxan, rabia de haver comprado; si suben, rabia de que no compró mas; si compra, suben, vende, gana y buelan aun á mas alto precio del que ha vendido; rabia de que vendió por menor precio: si no compra ni vende y ván subiendo, rabia de que haviendo tenido impulsos de comprar, no llegó á lograr los impulsos; si van baxando, rabia de que, haviendo tenido amagos de vender, no se resolvió á gozar los amagos; si le dan algun consejo y acierta, rabia de que no se lo dieron antes; si yerra, rabia de que se lo dieron; con que todo son inquietudes, todo arrepentimientos, tododelirios, luchando siempre lo insufrible con lo feliz, lo indomito con lo tranquilo y lo rabioso con lo deleytable.
unclescrooge
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May 02, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
 #1118

Put withdrawal request in yesterday.. now it's cancelled as of 2 hours ago whilst sleeping AND it charged the transaction fee, this service continues to amaze me.  Trying again...



Would be cool to get a response about not receiving any type of margin call notification as well. Email support simply stopped responding as well.

Hello,

Ok let make some things clear.

When you have a margin call, you have a pop-up on top of the page indicating you that (like the message "Mtgox is having some issues...").

Now, in your case, between the time you got a margin call and the time you were liquidated, there was only a few minutes, so you probably didn't have time to notice anything or navigate in Bitfinex. And even less time to cover your margin if you were waiting for a margin call to do that. On the other hand, one thing you could see at anytime was your losses growing bigger and getting your trading balance near to zero. That's generally a good indicator that things are turning bad.

There is nothing I can add to that, although I totally understand your frustration, nobody like losing money, me neither Smiley

About your withdrawal request, it contained a small string of digits instead of a BTC address, that why it was cancelled with a message asking you for a BTC address. Please put a BTC address as requested per mail. And no transaction fee is charged at all, so please do not say things like that, especially when everyone can see on your screenshot that no transaction fee is charged.

To everyone, thanks for your suggestions, we are always listening although we don't always come here and answer Smiley

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team
GraphicImpulse
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May 02, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
 #1119

Put withdrawal request in yesterday.. now it's cancelled as of 2 hours ago whilst sleeping AND it charged the transaction fee, this service continues to amaze me.  Trying again...



Would be cool to get a response about not receiving any type of margin call notification as well. Email support simply stopped responding as well.

Hello,

Ok let make some things clear.

When you have a margin call, you have a pop-up on top of the page indicating you that (like the message "Mtgox is having some issues...").

Now, in your case, between the time you got a margin call and the time you were liquidated, there was only a few minutes, so you probably didn't have time to notice anything or navigate in Bitfinex. And even less time to cover your margin if you were waiting for a margin call to do that. On the other hand, one thing you could see at anytime was your losses growing bigger and getting your trading balance near to zero. That's generally a good indicator that things are turning bad.

There is nothing I can add to that, although I totally understand your frustration, nobody like losing money, me neither Smiley

About your withdrawal request, it contained a small string of digits instead of a BTC address, that why it was cancelled with a message asking you for a BTC address. Please put a BTC address as requested per mail. And no transaction fee is charged at all, so please do not say things like that, especially when everyone can see on your screenshot that no transaction fee is charged.

To everyone, thanks for your suggestions, we are always listening although we don't always come here and answer Smiley

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team

So let me get this straight for the factual legal record: when a www.bitfinex.com margin call is issued - there is NO email notification sent out? Is this in fact what you are stating while representing www.bitfinex.com?

If you took the time and care to read my previous posts instead of skipping them you would know what I use this strictly due to the multiple notifications via email the site sends out upon any processing of orders.

My withdrawal request had a valid bitcoin address and I even have a screenshot of it at home. I will post this here in ~6 hours when I arrive at home. You also just sent me a email saying this 15 minutes ago, not actually when it happened like you just stated. Stop being so god damn sketchy!




"And no transaction fee is charged at all, so please do not say things like that, especially when everyone can see on your screenshot that no transaction fee is charged."

Are you... literally...blind? It's quite obvious from my screenshot. Started @ .5698, opened withdrawal for .5648 (to include .005 fee) and it was cancelled without refunding the .005 fee resulting in remaining balance of .5648(loss of .005).
unclescrooge
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May 02, 2013, 02:21:21 PM
 #1120

Are you... literally...blind? It's quite obvious from my screenshot. Started @ .5698, opened withdrawal for .5648 (to include .005 fee) and it was cancelled without refunding the .005 fee resulting in remaining balance of .5648(loss of .005).

The withdrawal is made on the wallet exchange, and the withdrawal cancellation is refunded on the wallet trading. You still have your 0.005 BTC in your wallet exchange. I understand it can be misleading.

We do not charge any withdrawal fees for bitcoins.

Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team
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