[BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[superbit]

Whenever the DDOS protection screen comes up, after it loads it never loads correctly.  It's always a white background looks kind of like a text document.  I'm using latest firefox.

[BurtW]

Whenever the DDOS protection screen comes up, after it loads it never loads correctly.  It's always a white background looks kind of like a text document.  I'm using latest firefox.

Sometimes happens to me.  I just reload it and it comes up.

[Ichthyo]

Whenever the DDOS protection screen comes up, after it loads it never loads correctly.  It's always a white background looks kind of like a text document.  I'm using latest firefox.

Yeah, that can be annoying. Happens to me too (using an older firefox...)

I get the impression that there is some kind of timeout involved.
Now the Bitfinex page is programmed in a way that several sub-elements within the page seem to talk to the server independently. When I let the page open for some time, one of these sub-elements seems to trigger the CloudFare screen again. But, when this DDOS protection lets you through after some delay, it is mostly the wrong URL, fetching you just a piece of JSON, instead of the top level page.

Also, I observed that it can be problematic now to have several tabs open. I used to have margin, manage wallets or (alternatively) exchange, the lending page and the second level orderbook opened simultaneously. Well -- probably this is a bit selfish, since I'm using a larger share of server bandwidth. But when the market moves quickly, this often gave me a head start, e.g. to pick up a cheap loan, or to see when the next orderbook update from Mt.Gox came in. Anyway, now, as soon as the CloudFare kicks in (after letting these pages just standing there idle for some time), then you won't be able to get into any page back, unless you close all existing tabs. What I do then is to open the /bitfinex.com/trading explicitly again (my browser holds still the valid session cookie, thus no new login is required). After doing so, things are fine again.


Needless to say that Bitfinex overall works great. Quite often in the last days, the 2nd level orderbook was the best market and depth information available -- everything else was lagging or stalled.

[MrJMassey]

Hello all...

I am relatively new here and new to Bitcoin in general.  However, I've tried the exchange rate trading, margin trading, and now I'm completely intrigued at the lending aspect provided by Bitfinex.  I'm curious to know any best practices for keeping ones funds out there being used (i.e. best terms, rates, & amount combinations you've had success with).  

Unfortunately for me, when I started lending it seems quite easy to keep my money in play at 1200% and so, watching the VIR drop to a "mere" 100% seems a little depressing, however, in the real world be completely acceptable.  I'm curious to know historically was is norm for the VIR or rate you base any of your projections on?

And then, what are you using for trying to keep tracking of your loans?  I'm finding it a challenge because I don't know exactly when it was taken and closed.  And this becomes especially difficult when loans are opened and closed quickly.

Lastly, thanks for taking the time to read this (and hopefully answer).  I'm sure some of these things are relatively newbie, however, for now this is the first place I've found to attempt getting the detailed answer I'm looking for.

Thanks...

J.

[Ichthyo]

Hi MrJMassey, welcome to this user community

I'll try to answer some of your questions...

I'm curious to know historically was is norm for the VIR or rate you base any of your projections on?

The idea was (if I understood it correct), that VIR somehow reflects the "weight center" of the currently active loans. This would make VIR attractive both for lenders not interested in actively managing their loans all the time, and for traders not willing to get ther loans manually for each trade.

In the more modest times before the last round of madness started, VIR rates were often around 120%, which is 1/3 per day. But then the Bitfinex users started to discover that you really can offer loans for 888888888.88%. At some incident, such loans were really picked up, this way "poisoning" the VIR rates. What followed were several attempts by the Bitfinex staff to improve the formula of VIR calculation. Meanwhile, they seem to have settled by a combination of damping factors and limits which works quite well. Bottom line is that we don't have any practical experiences how this new VIR formula works in more modest times.

Also, note that by default the system prefers VIR rates for opening a position (unless the trader explicitly disables using VIR). Thus, in the situation when there is a huge block of VIR offers (say $60000), then you need to offer a fixed rate below VIR explicitly, to get into business. This has also the effect of pushing down VIR over time, which is the intended behaviour (it regulates itself this way).

I'm finding it a challenge because I don't know exactly when it was taken and closed.  And this becomes especially difficult when loans are opened and closed quickly.

Indeed, the lending section is not yet as transparent than the trading section. It seems that it's a feature quite high on the wish list of most lenders: getting a more detailed reporting here. As far as I have understood, Bitfinex staff has already acknowledged that some improvements are desirable here.

While probably most of us agree that Bitfinex as a whole has way more important features in the pipeline, like adding a second exchange, getting the business and paperwork settled, also for insured loans and so on. Scaling up a development team also creates a huge overhead initially, to get new team members up to speed. And this way, there is the real danger that the Bitfinex team suffers a burn-out with all that feature wishes and development possibilities popping in.

[MrJMassey]

Hi MrJMassey, welcome to this user community

I'll try to answer some of your questions...

I'm curious to know historically was is norm for the VIR or rate you base any of your projections on?

The idea was (if I understood it correct), that VIR somehow reflects the "weight center" of the currently active loans. This would make VIR attractive both for lenders not interested in actively managing their loans all the time, and for traders not willing to get ther loans manually for each trade.

In the more modest times before the last round of madness started, VIR rates were often around 120%, which is 1/3 per day. But then the Bitfinex users started to discover that you really can offer loans for 888888888.88%. At some incident, such loans were really picked up, this way "poisoning" the VIR rates. What followed were several attempts by the Bitfinex staff to improve the formula of VIR calculation. Meanwhile, they seem to have settled by a combination of damping factors and limits which works quite well. Bottom line is that we don't have any practical experiences how this new VIR formula works in more modest times.

Also, note that by default the system prefers VIR rates for opening a position (unless the trader explicitly disables using VIR). Thus, in the situation when there is a huge block of VIR offers (say $60000), then you need to offer a fixed rate below VIR explicitly, to get into business. This has also the effect of pushing down VIR over time, which is the intended behaviour (it regulates itself this way).

I'm finding it a challenge because I don't know exactly when it was taken and closed.  And this becomes especially difficult when loans are opened and closed quickly.

Indeed, the lending section is not yet as transparent than the trading section. It seems that it's a feature quite high on the wish list of most lenders: getting a more detailed reporting here. As far as I have understood, Bitfinex staff has already acknowledged that some improvements are desirable here.

While probably most of us agree that Bitfinex as a whole has way more important features in the pipeline, like adding a second exchange, getting the business and paperwork settled, also for insured loans and so on. Scaling up a development team also creates a huge overhead initially, to get new team members up to speed. And this way, there is the real danger that the Bitfinex team suffers a burn-out with all that feature wishes and development possibilities popping in.

You indeed understood my questioning regarding the VIR correctly.  I only wish my perspective wasn't already spoiled.  I should be overjoyed at the possibility of 100% annual returns, but have seeing a few days of 2 - 3% per day returns, it seems disappointing.   Anyway, you mentioned lenders managing their loans.  Can you explain further what you mean by this?  Right now, I just know that I get excited around 5 pm Pacific time daily because that's when the interest shows up.  I'm sure your "management" process includes more than what I just stated.

J.

[MrJMassey]

Hello...

As a general rule of thumb, how long will you allow your funds to sit before making a change to your term, interest rate, amount, or just turning on VIR and auto-lend?

Currently going on 9 consecutive hours without earning interest,

J.

[nrd525]

Bitcoin bubble is bursting and interest rates are heading down to reasonable levels.  They might go down to 20-40%.

[Sukrim]

Hello...

As a general rule of thumb, how long will you allow your funds to sit before making a change to your term, interest rate, amount, or just turning on VIR and auto-lend?

Currently going on 9 consecutive hours without earning interest,

J.

I usually just turn on vir when I'm away longer or the market goes down, so I have a chance that vir will go at least up a bit once it turns. Other than that I'd recommend at least thinking in days, not minutes or hours. Lending is not day trading...

I wonder why so few traders seem to make use of the lower fees on bitfinex to do some volatility scalping though.

[rpietila]

Public announcement: If everybody has so far been able to get everything that is to them due, from Bitfinex, even last week, I consider it safe enough to extend my trading there also.

So please tell quickly in case there has been any issues with this, so that I can start! 

[BurtW]

There have been a few bumps in the road.  All solved quickly and professionally.  Overall I really like the platform.

[Sukrim]

Actually I haven't withdrawn money yet (other than a single bitcoin, which worked... ) - and to verify that they don't do fractional reserve, you anyways need a fully fledged bank run or audited bank + mtgox statements... highly unlikely to happen on demand.

I'll just wait for a week or so if the market continues to go down, then I might withdraw some of my profits or also just trade them to get some coins. So far I had no issues in depositing money (though at a different account than the current one in HK) and Raphy was usually on top of things + answering to mails.

I got everything properly credited (sans a few hours of interest in the last few days, as was already discussed) on my account though. Maybe some traders can also give a statement on how they are doing. Actually most people in this thread seem to be lenders, I'd love to see more success stories from the people who borrow the half million USD+ that is usually lent out.

Today will probably a bad interest day (dipping quite below average returns so far), but I had already a week of these before, so let's see how this works out until May.
As it seems that I have quite a few very short positions taken, I'd still like to have verified that interest is credited atomically by the hour (meaning 0-60 minutes loan = 1 hour interest, 61-120 minutes 2 hours interest etc.) and it is possible for me to gain 5 times the interest in an hour by having the same money borrowed for 12 minutes back-to-back.

[myself]

Actually I haven't withdrawn money yet (other than a single bitcoin, which worked... ) - and to verify that they don't do fractional reserve, you anyways need a fully fledged bank run or audited bank + mtgox statements... highly unlikely to happen on demand.

lets remember that there is a thread about transparency that did not get to much attention and I advised to put that on hold until the users do comment on that topic https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131566.0 the image on that thread is still relevant

[oakpacific]

Public announcement: If everybody has so far been able to get everything that is to them due, from Bitfinex, even last week, I consider it safe enough to extend my trading there also.

So please tell quickly in case there has been any issues with this, so that I can start! 

I personally ask my clients to wait until they register with the Hong Kong financial regulation agency, which I believe they are pushing forward, I have no problem with entrusting my own funds to them though.

[drawingthesun]

You indeed understood my questioning regarding the VIR correctly.  I only wish my perspective wasn't already spoiled.  I should be overjoyed at the possibility of 100% annual returns, but have seeing a few days of 2 - 3% per day returns, it seems disappointing.

The 1000%+ loans only started around the Bitcoin phase past $100, thats when the bubble was in full swing and the interest was bubble money essentially, we profited from the traders taking profits from people speculating big time.

For these loans to come back another bubble has to form, even a linear growth of Bitcoin will only allow for rates between 100% and 300%

[zakoliverz]

Need help executing trades on MtGox.

[BurtW]

Need help executing trades on MtGox.

Bitfinex will be the very best place to trade once they get a few more exchanges in the order book.  I know this is a high priority.  Any news on this?  Any progress?

[myself]

Need help executing trades on MtGox.

Bitfinex will be the very best place to trade once they get a few more exchanges in the order book.  I know this is a high priority.  Any news on this?  Any progress?

we disabled the routing to MTGOX because sometimes mtox fail to give a order ID and we cant place limit orders on mtgox book correctly (what some ppl call raising walls on leverage) and all trades happen at market order when mtgox api get fixed and they return order ID all the time this will be enabled  

[superbit]

Bitcoin bubble is bursting and interest rates are heading down to reasonable levels.  They might go down to 20-40%.

I think the days of 4 digits might be gone for a bit, but 20 - 40 is way too low for the risks involved.

[myself]

Bitcoin bubble is bursting and interest rates are heading down to reasonable levels.  They might go down to 20-40%.

I think the days of 4 digits might be gone for a bit, but 20 - 40 is way too low for the risks involved.

20 ? what i pay 85%