[BETA]Bitfinex.com first Bitcoin P2P lending platform for leverage trading

[yogi]

Am I doing this wrong? I want to loan out my BTC. Let's say I put in a loan offer for 5 BTC at VIR for 2 days. I click Lend, and it shows up in "Unfilled credit demand/offers". After a while I get an email saying my Offer #blahblah has been taken.

Looks like the BTC never left my wallet, it's still there, it's not in unfilled credit, and I never collected any interest on it.

It could be that your btc was only lent out for a very short period of time.

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[Sukrim]

Also interest is credited daily, next time in about an hour from this post.

[acorn]

Am I doing this wrong? I want to loan out my BTC. Let's say I put in a loan offer for 5 BTC at VIR for 2 days. I click Lend, and it shows up in "Unfilled credit demand/offers". After a while I get an email saying my Offer #blahblah has been taken.

Looks like the BTC never left my wallet, it's still there, it's not in unfilled credit, and I never collected any interest on it.

It could be that your btc was only lent out for a very short period of time.

Ahah, yes I guess that might do it. Thanks!

[unclescrooge]

Hello everyone!

Acorn, yes, interests are credited every night around 00:00 GMT, even if a loan is paid back earlier.

Your deposit balance always includes current lent funds, that's why you won't see it change unless when you receive interests.

To everyone,

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions
Best regards
Raphael
Bitfinex team

[capoeira]

1) If I set a limit order as a take profit and a stop order as stop loss. If one of them triggers will the other be canceled automaticly?

Yes thats a problem I do encounter frequently. Unfortunately there is no way to link those orders together. Thus this approach could be potentially dangerous, leaving you e.g. with a heavily loosing short position in case bothe orders do trigger accidentally.

But to understand why it is not simple to link orders together, consider that it is very common to break down your orders into multiple parts, e.g. multiple trailing stops with different distances, or splitting a stop loss in two parts, sitting behind two existing bid walls, allowing to mitigate the risk. Given such possibilities, how would the system be able to tell which profit taking order belongs to which stop order? How would you show in the GUI which order is linked to which other order?

creating a "one cancels the other order"



@Bitfinex

I'm sure someone allready asked this question, but I don't know how to find the answer: Is there a way to show the time when a loan expires? I mean how do I know when exactly 1 day is over?

[capoeira]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

[myself]

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

the question is silly since bitstamp and mtgox dont allow anyone to trade on credit

[2586]

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

the question is silly since bitstamp and mtgox dont allow anyone to trade on credit

Seems like a reasonable question to me. Bitfinex has a bank account. What portion of the funds are kept in that bank account, vs on the exchanges? If MtGox were to end up insolvent, how much could Bitfinex potentially lose?

[unclescrooge]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.

Still no reply?  If you don't want to disclose this information, then at least give me a reason why you don't want to...

Hiya Bitfinex crew, could you address my previous question?
I want to know to what extent keeping funds at bitfinex can be considered 'banking diversification' to my fiat at gox.

Thanks

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

Hi Spcamen,

We keep a part on our bank account, and most of the funds on MtGox and Bitstamp.

The proportion depends on the volume we have on the different exchanges and internally. As our internal volume grow we are able to keep more and more on our bank account (and cold wallet for bitcoins). Currently it's something like 30% to us, and the rest shared on the two others.

Hope this answers the question, sorry it took so long I missed it somehow.

[Remember remember the 5th of November]

I also have a question! How does one take advantage of arbitrage between Gox and Stamp?

[capoeira]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.

I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

[myself]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.

I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

hi, i think this URL is relevant https://community.bitfinex.com/showwiki.php?title=Margin+Call

[Spaceman_Spiff]

PS: I was wondering where bitfinex keeps its fiat money.  Is it all on a mtgox (and recently a bitstamp) account?

Hi Spcamen,

We keep a part on our bank account, and most of the funds on MtGox and Bitstamp.

The proportion depends on the volume we have on the different exchanges and internally. As our internal volume grow we are able to keep more and more on our bank account (and cold wallet for bitcoins). Currently it's something like 30% to us, and the rest shared on the two others.

Hope this answers the question, sorry it took so long I missed it somehow.

Ok, thanks for the reply

[unclescrooge]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.

I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

Hello,

It is the one I posted, because margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price is always lower than your margin balance. You missed the 10%

Bets regards
Raphael

[capoeira]

Following last days drama, and because I understand it is a pain to calculate your liquidation price, we added a field in the "Positions" table to show you your liquidation price. It is only an indicative field, it will varies as your trading balance and your swap varies. However it can give you a good idea of what to expect when price reaches certain levels.

Let me know if you have any questions

Yes, I have a question.


What's actually the formula? Is it: "Margin Balance =< (equal or less) Required Margin - Unrealized Swap - Unrealized P/L"?

Hello,

The formula is "margin balance <= margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price - unrealized P/L - unrealized swap"

It is a indicator only, as your swap will increase in time.

I guess I expressed myself wrong. I wanted to know the formula for liquidation.
Can't be the one you posted since  only position amount * position base price is allready higher than margin balance in a levereged position

Hello,

It is the one I posted, because margin requiments (10%) * position amount * position base price is always lower than your margin balance. You missed the 10%

Bets regards
Raphael

well , than it's actualy the same formula I posted :-)

[unclescrooge]

well , than it's actualy the same formula I posted :-)

Yes indeed

Bye
Raphael

[nrd525]

I posted this on community announcements (bitfinex site) as well:



The more that I think about this, the more I feel that the insurance plan this is a horrible move for the investor. If you have a VIR of 100% APR - then the investor is expecting a 5% annual probability of a 100% wipe-out event or less (or obviously a greater probability of a smaller loss -- but the same math still applies - the summation of losses will be 5% or less over the year).

        If they are only expecting a 5% chance of a 100% wipe-out, they are better off investing the $50,000 in the lending market. After one year that gives them 5% chance of 0 money - 95% chance of 200% money. By contrast their insurance has a return of 5% chance of 0 money, at 95% chance of 105% money (or maybe as high as 110% if they can invest the money somewhere else while it is a "reserve").

        The investor should be asking for something like 50-90% of the interest in exchange for insuring.

        Am I missing something?

Ok in practice, the APR varies from 50% to 300% - and  you aren't loaning out 100% of the time, but the logic still applies.  Whether the APR is 50% or 300% - you are still better off lending than insuring.

[Sukrim]

Providing insurance funds only pays off if:

* there is FAR more demand for insured positions than uninsured positions, meaning your funds will actually be used all/most of the time.
* there are little/no "black swan" events that eat away your profits (even smaller cuts, as soon as they are above x% might eat a year's worth of profits).
* the lending market is oversaturated like right now at the moment (I have horrible return rates in the USD market atm, started gambling with a few margin positions to earn and learn a bit about the system, earned some, lost some, learned a lot!) and actually offering to lend the money won't help, as it won't be taken - the catch however is that if the average rate is at 100% you'd even make a profit compared to providing insurance even if you just offer at 10%...
* you have no idea about the lending market, don't want to learn or know anything about it and are only knowledgeable in the external risks that might influence Bitfinex, so you could assess this better from the outside somehow.
* you get additional benefits that are not mentioned here so far (shares in Bitfinex, free trades...?!).

[urwhatuknow]

I posted this on community announcements (bitfinex site) as well:



The more that I think about this, the more I feel that the insurance plan this is a horrible move for the investor. If you have a VIR of 100% APR - then the investor is expecting a 5% annual probability of a 100% wipe-out event or less (or obviously a greater probability of a smaller loss -- but the same math still applies - the summation of losses will be 5% or less over the year).

        If they are only expecting a 5% chance of a 100% wipe-out, they are better off investing the $50,000 in the lending market. After one year that gives them 5% chance of 0 money - 95% chance of 200% money. By contrast their insurance has a return of 5% chance of 0 money, at 95% chance of 105% money (or maybe as high as 110% if they can invest the money somewhere else while it is a "reserve").

        The investor should be asking for something like 50-90% of the interest in exchange for insuring.

        Am I missing something?

Ok in practice, the APR varies from 50% to 300% - and  you aren't loaning out 100% of the time, but the logic still applies.  Whether the APR is 50% or 300% - you are still better off lending than insuring.

 “If you are in a poker game and after 20 minutes, you don’t know who the patsy is, then you are the patsy.”
  Warren Buffett

Yes sir, you are missing something.
Here's the catch: In case of a black swan event the losses might not be the full amount, unless Bitcoin go to zero.
When at the beginning of April the price went from 266 to 50 in 2 days  the total losses were only 10% of the total amount.
So the insurer estimate the chances bitcoin will survive (and not of a black swan event) to be higher than 95%.

I hope this helps

;-)

Giancarlo
Customers Relations
Bitfinex Group