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Author Topic: [AEON] Aeon Speculation  (Read 189590 times)
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stoffu
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October 16, 2019, 02:00:04 AM
Merited by bbc.reporter (1)
 #1761


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.
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October 16, 2019, 12:42:29 PM
 #1762


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.


Yeah but if we are rooting for efficient & centralized, wouldn't that just leave us with Visa??

I know it's an extreme, but hopefully you see my point.  Cryptocurrencies were meant to be decentralized.  Having 10 or so entities controlling 80-90% of Bitcoin's hashing power is insane and the closer you get to a monopoly, the easier it will be for governments to force that monopoly/duopoly/etc. to censor transactions and corrupt the chain.


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Monero
XMR Open Alias: phishead@xmr.id
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016
bbc.reporter
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October 17, 2019, 03:07:21 AM
 #1763


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.


Also, Monero's blockchain is very hard to download after the RingCT upgrade. How large would it be after 5 years?

@everyone. Where is americanpegasus? We need her back to say her famous words about Monero on $0.25 for Aeon hehehe.

.
..........
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.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
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stoffu
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October 17, 2019, 03:28:31 AM
 #1764


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.


Yeah but if we are rooting for efficient & centralized, wouldn't that just leave us with Visa??

I know it's an extreme, but hopefully you see my point.  Cryptocurrencies were meant to be decentralized.  Having 10 or so entities controlling 80-90% of Bitcoin's hashing power is insane and the closer you get to a monopoly, the easier it will be for governments to force that monopoly/duopoly/etc. to censor transactions and corrupt the chain.

Visa doesn't need a blockchain.

Your point has been raised countless times in never ending debates on ASIC resistance/friendliness with no hope of coming to an agreement. Let's not repeat it here. If you don't like ASIC friendliness, stop bothering about AEON and move on.
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October 17, 2019, 04:11:36 AM
 #1765

@stoffu. How is everyone on /r/Aeon taking the new asic friendly Aeon? Is this why we are dumped under $0.25? Are some of them selling and leaving hehe?

.
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.
.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
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October 17, 2019, 04:31:43 AM
 #1766

@stoffu. How is everyone on /r/Aeon taking the new asic friendly Aeon? Is this why we are dumped under $0.25? Are some of them selling and leaving hehe?

Some like it, others don't. Those may have sold their coins and left, but this is all speculation.
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October 17, 2019, 05:58:51 AM
 #1767

Still believe we are in the overshot. The closest pessimistic price of AEON is 1% of XMR = 0.00007100 BTC.
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October 17, 2019, 06:12:25 PM
 #1768

@everyone. Where is americanpegasus? We need her back to say her famous words about Monero on $0.25 for Aeon hehehe.

AP is broke as far as I know and driving for Uber/Lyft now...

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/katie-charm-james-daniel-davis-americanpegasus-shade7x.32306/page-33#post-4386293

https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/av3wbk/what_happened_to_uamericanpegasus/eheb4bl/

Think AP said she owned 50k XMR at one time. Shame. May have had up to $25mil at $500 XMR peak... Cry

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October 17, 2019, 08:13:00 PM
 #1769


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.


Yeah but if we are rooting for efficient & centralized, wouldn't that just leave us with Visa??

I know it's an extreme, but hopefully you see my point.  Cryptocurrencies were meant to be decentralized.  Having 10 or so entities controlling 80-90% of Bitcoin's hashing power is insane and the closer you get to a monopoly, the easier it will be for governments to force that monopoly/duopoly/etc. to censor transactions and corrupt the chain.

Visa doesn't need a blockchain.

Your point has been raised countless times in never ending debates on ASIC resistance/friendliness with no hope of coming to an agreement. Let's not repeat it here. If you don't like ASIC friendliness, stop bothering about AEON and move on.


And your point about ASIC friendliness has been raised countless times too... so... idk what to tell you, but you shouldn’t expect everyone who supports a coin to have all the same philosophies of what might work better than what Bitcoin offers already.

And I will always be interested in Monero specifically as well as AEON since it was the early alt coin to Monero.


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Monero
XMR Open Alias: phishead@xmr.id
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016
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October 18, 2019, 01:27:39 AM
 #1770


My question to all is when we will expect first ASICs being build to mine AEON and how much after that will be for sale for everyone to buy?

ASIC can't generate more coins than allowed by protocol. The number of coins will be the same. And of course nobody gonna build ASIC for a coin with 2mm market cap. If AEON cap will increase to 100-200mm manufacturers will consider building one.

By saying that I like ASIC friendliness I mean finally there is no wild goose chase for dumb ASIC resistance.

It was a valid goose chase and still is for some projects. You have to try something out first and if it does not work, try something different. If monero devs (and others) didn’t try asic resistance, nobody would have known if it indeed was possible or not. It is not possible right now with technical design capabilities. Maybe it will be some day but it’s not worth it to spend development money and time fighting something that is designed to do what your project is doing 24/7 anyway.

I disagree.

A quote from the first paragraph of the CryptoNote whitepaper Section 5 (Egalitarian Proof-of-work):

Quote
Our primary goal is to close the gap between CPU (majority) and GPU/FPGA/ASIC (minority) miners. It is appropriate that some users can have a certain advantage over others, but their investments should grow at least linearly with the power. More generally, producing special-purpose devices has to be as less profitable as possible.

I didn't find anything wrong here when I saw it the first time, but on hindsight I find it fundamentally flawed; mining will/should be one of the most important tasks to humanity at large if the currency were to serve globally, and hence trying to make the process more efficient is just the nature of human and free market. ASIC resistance means to ban all such attempts and to change the algorithm when the current attempt fails.

If Monero developers continue to be caught up in many flawed mantra in CryptoNote whitepaper, it is doomed to fail.


Yeah but if we are rooting for efficient & centralized, wouldn't that just leave us with Visa??

I know it's an extreme, but hopefully you see my point.  Cryptocurrencies were meant to be decentralized.  Having 10 or so entities controlling 80-90% of Bitcoin's hashing power is insane and the closer you get to a monopoly, the easier it will be for governments to force that monopoly/duopoly/etc. to censor transactions and corrupt the chain.

Visa doesn't need a blockchain.

Your point has been raised countless times in never ending debates on ASIC resistance/friendliness with no hope of coming to an agreement. Let's not repeat it here. If you don't like ASIC friendliness, stop bothering about AEON and move on.


And your point about ASIC friendliness has been raised countless times too... so... idk what to tell you, but you shouldn’t expect everyone who supports a coin to have all the same philosophies of what might work better than what Bitcoin offers already.

And I will always be interested in Monero specifically as well as AEON since it was the early alt coin to Monero.

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.
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October 18, 2019, 01:48:40 AM
 #1771

@everyone. Where is americanpegasus? We need her back to say her famous words about Monero on $0.25 for Aeon hehehe.

AP is broke as far as I know and driving for Uber/Lyft now...

https://kiwifarms.net/threads/katie-charm-james-daniel-davis-americanpegasus-shade7x.32306/page-33#post-4386293

https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/av3wbk/what_happened_to_uamericanpegasus/eheb4bl/

Think AP said she owned 50k XMR at one time. Shame. May have had up to $25mil at $500 XMR peak... Cry



Similar to how Ricciardo Spagni lost all his private keys in a boating accident hehehe? Also, americanpegasus lives in America. She will have taxes to pay if she was not broke and if she was broke, she will not leave cryptospace.

She might be living a simple life that she wants with a big secret bag of cryptocoins.

.
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.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
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phishead
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October 18, 2019, 01:11:24 PM
 #1772

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.

Open sourced projects are constantly criticized and improved on... that’s the point of open source projects... and how exactly am I trolling??

I like AEON because it’s a cryptonote coin that has close ties to monero and I view it as a hedge to Monero.

And people come to /r/Monero or on the monero threads here and criticize certain aspects all the time, only to be not censored and debated.


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Monero
XMR Open Alias: phishead@xmr.id
"I just opened a 2004 barolo in your and all the devs honour"  eyejay:  Decemeber 22nd, 2016
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October 18, 2019, 01:33:44 PM
 #1773

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.

Open sourced projects are constantly criticized and improved on... that’s the point of open source projects... and how exactly am I trolling??

I like AEON because it’s a cryptonote coin that has close ties to monero and I view it as a hedge to Monero.

And people come to /r/Monero or on the monero threads here and criticize certain aspects all the time, only to be not censored and debated.


I don't think it's stupid to doubt your own wisdom and hedge accordingly. Personally I don't think monero made the right decision with respect to randomx v. sha3, but I didn't dump my monero. There's other factors to consider, such as community, liquidity, history, etc, besides the fact that I may just be flat out wrong.
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October 18, 2019, 02:55:31 PM
 #1774

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.

Open sourced projects are constantly criticized and improved on... that’s the point of open source projects... and how exactly am I trolling??

I like AEON because it’s a cryptonote coin that has close ties to monero and I view it as a hedge to Monero.

And people come to /r/Monero or on the monero threads here and criticize certain aspects all the time, only to be not censored and debated.


I don't think it's stupid to doubt your own wisdom and hedge accordingly. Personally I don't think monero made the right decision with respect to randomx v. sha3, but I didn't dump my monero. There's other factors to consider, such as community, liquidity, history, etc, besides the fact that I may just be flat out wrong.

I dont think anyone made a mistake or wrong decision. But maybe I am underestimating impact of mining.  Cryptocurrencies are still an experiment. And with experiments you need to experiment to prove you are doing something right. Doing nothing would be worst.
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October 18, 2019, 04:59:19 PM
Merited by sammy007 (37)
 #1775

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.

Open sourced projects are constantly criticized and improved on... that’s the point of open source projects... and how exactly am I trolling??

I like AEON because it’s a cryptonote coin that has close ties to monero and I view it as a hedge to Monero.

And people come to /r/Monero or on the monero threads here and criticize certain aspects all the time, only to be not censored and debated.


Your appearing to be trolling is just how I see it. I expressed my criticisms and doubts about ASIC resistance in intense debates previously (https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/316 & https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/321) which were dismissed by the majority in the end. As such I will never voice my opinion about ASIC resistance again in any Monero channels because I know it's no use and is mostly equivalent to trolling. Expressing your criticism against ASIC friendliness here seems useless to me for the same reason.

There are certain critical aspects in cryptocurrencies that are very unlikely to change until facing existential crisis (e.g. Bitcoin's capped supply, Monero's ASIC resistance, Zcash's trusted setup). Bringing those critical points to debate in their discussion channels seems largely useless to me; the right approach IMO would be to start a new coin (or lead an existing coin) and proceed in the direction you believe is right.
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October 19, 2019, 03:15:56 AM
 #1776

Supporting (holding) a coin that goes in a direction that you think is wrong is just stupid, so I'm kindly advising you not to do so (but you're free to ignore my advice). Also, I find it useless or borderline trolling to stir up the ASIC debate here since it's already decided after intense discussions. It's like criticizing Zcash's trusted setup in their forum.

Open sourced projects are constantly criticized and improved on... that’s the point of open source projects... and how exactly am I trolling??

I like AEON because it’s a cryptonote coin that has close ties to monero and I view it as a hedge to Monero.

And people come to /r/Monero or on the monero threads here and criticize certain aspects all the time, only to be not censored and debated.


I don't think it's stupid to doubt your own wisdom and hedge accordingly. Personally I don't think monero made the right decision with respect to randomx v. sha3, but I didn't dump my monero. There's other factors to consider, such as community, liquidity, history, etc, besides the fact that I may just be flat out wrong.

There were more decisions that Monero made that appeared to be in a hurry to have things work and done without foreseeing the longterm effects. A heavier blockchain because of RingCT was one of them.

@stoffu. It is not trolling. Some users take more time to accept. However, I support the Monero development team if they want to be the experimental coin for Asic resistance.

.
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.....I AM BLACKJACK.FUN.....
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October 24, 2019, 12:23:13 PM
 #1777

At current price the monthly emission of AEON is equal to ~1.3 BTC. ~15 BTC annual.
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October 24, 2019, 03:29:48 PM
 #1778

At current price the monthly emission of AEON is equal to ~1.3 BTC. ~15 BTC annual.

Are you sure?  Considering this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13AjSZJcYd5UoMCBRj3-9XliUhPUkagEjF_NzXsDmLgQ/edit#gid=0

At 15.831.459 AEON supply we should have 3589 AEON mined daily. That is 0.09 btc or 2.7 btc a month.  Yearly emission inflation is 8.27%

Is that spreadsheet inaccurate?
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October 24, 2019, 03:31:23 PM
 #1779

At current price the monthly emission of AEON is equal to ~1.3 BTC. ~15 BTC annual.

Are you sure?  Considering this sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13AjSZJcYd5UoMCBRj3-9XliUhPUkagEjF_NzXsDmLgQ/edit#gid=0

At 15.831.459 AEON supply we should have 3589 AEON mined daily. That is 0.09 btc or 2.7 btc a month.  Yearly emission inflation is 8.27%

Is that spreadsheet inaccurate?

I used block reward (4.85) from one of pools, 4 minute block time and current price.
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October 24, 2019, 04:40:37 PM
 #1780

@stoffu. How is everyone on /r/Aeon taking the new asic friendly Aeon? Is this why we are dumped under $0.25? Are some of them selling and leaving hehe?

Some like it, others don't. Those may have sold their coins and left, but this is all speculation.


Speculation in crypto is common as well as many people will do analysis to make sales and purchases. Aeon is actually quite good movement and I agree that many are selling so at this time the price is somewhat starting to decline but it is certain to move back at a pretty good price, it never hurts to buy when prices are down.

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