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Author Topic: Trust farming  (Read 2247 times)
ColderThanIce
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October 16, 2015, 09:37:04 PM
 #21

If you are in the DefaultTrust network and you give out trust feedback for microtrades then you will be targeted by trust farmers and you are just as guilty for trust farming as the person who is targeting DT members to trade with of trust farming.

I agree with blazed that you should be held to a higher standard if you are in the DefaultTrust network. If someone has a bunch of positive trust for microtrades and you have a high trust score then it will be difficult to tell that you should not be trusted with large amounts of money, especially considering that the comments attached to trust ratings are often vague and as a result many people will not look at them.


Exactly this. I'm really happy when I see DT members saying specifically on their profile that they don't leave feedback for trades under x BTC. Giving positive feedback for microtrades can really give users a false sense of security, similar to what Blazed mentioned. tspacepilot only has one positive DT feedback for an actual trade, and has 5 more positive ratings that aren't relevant to trades at all. He'll have a +50 trust score soon enough for doing one trade, and getting caught up in some drama on the site a few months ago, that doesn't seem right.

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OgNasty
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October 17, 2015, 12:12:45 AM
 #22

If you are in the DefaultTrust network and you give out trust feedback for microtrades then you will be targeted by trust farmers and you are just as guilty for trust farming as the person who is targeting DT members to trade with of trust farming.

I agree with blazed that you should be held to a higher standard if you are in the DefaultTrust network. If someone has a bunch of positive trust for microtrades and you have a high trust score then it will be difficult to tell that you should not be trusted with large amounts of money, especially considering that the comments attached to trust ratings are often vague and as a result many people will not look at them.

You actually make some valid points here.  Especially about DT or high trust individuals being guilty of trust farming.  Canary being the most obvious example. 

Perhaps something should be implemented that actually discourages this behavior.  Maybe something like adding an additional variable into the trust calculation.

For example: 

Current Trust Score * Farmer Rating

The farmer rating could be a number between 0.25-1.25 and would be determined by where you fall in the farmer rating scale.  You could give farmer ratings to users by using a formula something like the below once you had all the data and could set reasonable points:
# of positive feedbacks received / # of positive feedbacks left

This of course being a very crude formula and example, but you get the point.
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October 17, 2015, 04:33:28 AM
 #23

If you are in the DefaultTrust network and you give out trust feedback for microtrades then you will be targeted by trust farmers and you are just as guilty for trust farming as the person who is targeting DT members to trade with of trust farming.

I agree with blazed that you should be held to a higher standard if you are in the DefaultTrust network. If someone has a bunch of positive trust for microtrades and you have a high trust score then it will be difficult to tell that you should not be trusted with large amounts of money, especially considering that the comments attached to trust ratings are often vague and as a result many people will not look at them.

You actually make some valid points here.  Especially about DT or high trust individuals being guilty of trust farming.  Canary being the most obvious example. 

Perhaps something should be implemented that actually discourages this behavior.  Maybe something like adding an additional variable into the trust calculation.

For example: 

Current Trust Score * Farmer Rating

The farmer rating could be a number between 0.25-1.25 and would be determined by where you fall in the farmer rating scale.  You could give farmer ratings to users by using a formula something like the below once you had all the data and could set reasonable points:
# of positive feedbacks received / # of positive feedbacks left

This of course being a very crude formula and example, but you get the point.
I would defiantly support some kind of additional calculation in trust ratings that punishes trust farming. Maybe your formula could be applied to the sent ratings of those who give out much more positive ratings then what they receive. This would discourage trust farmers from targeting members in the Default Trust network who too easily give out positive trust because these DefaultTrust members' sent trust will be worth decreasing amounts as more trust farmers target them.

CITM was a unique case because he was able to abuse his position on Level 1 Default Trust. I agree that he was farming trust by adding those who left him and his business partners positive trust to his trust list (and in turn to the Default Trust network). In addition to the issues that his trust farming caused, it also resulted in many people in the Default Trust Network that had no business being there which would result in accounts being sold to scammers who left positive trust to their sockpuppets in order to give additional credibility to their scams (here is an example of this), among many other abuses of their position in the Default Trust network.

Those who are in level 1 of Default Trust are the seeds of the seeds of the trust network, and they also need to be held to a higher standard for not only their trust ratings but also the trust ratings of those in their trust list. When there are problems with someone's trust ratings (be it trust farming, giving positive trust that later cause others to get scammed, or otherwise) then questions should really be asked if the trust farming (and the scams that result as a result of positive ratings) was really something that was inadvertent, or if the trust was being sold, indirectly or directly. Even ignoring CITM's trust farming of his own trust, there was far too many problems that resulted from his (those in his trust list) trust ratings.

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October 17, 2015, 03:19:07 PM
 #24

People need to be careful with any trust based off Paypal transactions because even months down the road someone can get their Paypal transaction reversed. Months of farmed trust just to screw over tons of members; so tread lightly and do a full trust-investigation prior to dealing with anyone Smiley
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October 17, 2015, 05:56:52 PM
 #25

People need to be careful with any trust based off Paypal transactions because even months down the road someone can get their Paypal transaction reversed. Months of farmed trust just to screw over tons of members; so tread lightly and do a full trust-investigation prior to dealing with anyone Smiley

Anytime someone mentions Paypal or Skype, I just assume they are a scammer.  It would be wise if others on this board took the same stance.  It is almost always true.
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October 17, 2015, 08:09:57 PM
 #26

Not going to point at anyone specific here, but I see there are a lot of trust feedbacks been given based on paypal deals.
So what happends is:
A member in DefaultTrust, lets call him Bob for simplicity, is selling his paypal for btc, so anyone, for example Alice, who sells bitcoin to him is the one at risk not Bob. So after a successful transaction, it should be Alice who leaves a trust rating on Bob as she is running a risk as Bob(trusted paypal sellers always urge the untrusted one to go first) only goes after Alice sends first, not the other way around as Bob is not running any risk which would make him to leave a trust rating on Alice. Anyway continuing, now what Alice(and most trust farmers) can do is use virwox and incur a loss of max 10% of the amount he/she traded. Say she traded 0.1 btc(which is pretty much the average amount trust farmers use) with Bob, so now converting it back to bitcoin would take some hassle + a bit of loss max 0.01.
So has this forum's trust degraded so much that one trust feedback from a trusted member costs only 0.01 for a trust farmer?

There are many ratings given for paying back loans as well. Not a big deal. Even members have given me ratings for just a single trade which I haven't asked for but I haven't given anyone any rating inspire of being asked for it as if the person goes about scamming another member, I'll be indirectly responsible for it and I don't guarantee that any member whom I trust is actually trustworthy.

In your example, Bob being a DT members dint do wrong by leaving a positive rating but the only reason why he shouldn't have left a rating is because he is on the DT list. This makes this forum look bad because it has a list which makes DT members responsible of their ratings but when we actually try to make them justify those ratings, they don't want to argue. I've seen many newbies having ratings for just one trade with a DT member and that gives them a license to scam anyone with a higher amount as they have a green trust rating unlike others who trade with other members.

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