Negative-Match, Negative-Coin

[mixoftix]

Dear Bitcoiners,

Just curious—since the probability of finding a hash that meets the target difficulty with enough trailing zeros is the same as finding a hash with trailing ones, why don’t we consider passing them through a simple NOT gate? This would allow their negative values to meet the same target bits, introducing them as a new coin in the market (Negative Coin) and adding value to the crypto ecosystem.
What makes this idea particularly interesting is that it requires no additional energy consumption—just a new series of miners with dual support (or firmware updates) for the possible new protocol.

So, while we currently look for these rare outputs:
10001010000000101100000000000000
10000100000000100000001001100100
01000010000000001010100110000100

let’s not discard similarly rare outputs:
11111111111111111110011111110101
11011101111100111011111111101111
11011100110011000111011111111001

Any feedback is welcome.

[Hatchy]

What problem does this solve exactly? The negative coin if possible would have every similarity. It's not going to solve a problem that the original coin doesn't already address. So why would anyone choose to use the negative version of the coins?

[Nheer]

Your idea is to use a different way of looking at cryptocurrency mining results to create a new coin. This could work, but it would need significant changes to the system and might not add much value. It would require a lot of support from the community and developers to make it successful as well which I doubt if many would be in support of it.

[mixoftix]

What problem does this solve exactly? The negative coin if possible would have every similarity. It's not going to solve a problem that the original coin doesn't already address. So why would anyone choose to use the negative version of the coins?

It is only about bringing more value with the same level of power consumption and other investments related to BitGoldLayer. Honestly, dropping output values that have the same probability level as the main coin of a PoW-based network is somewhat like wasting a huge amount of energy—like a gem we just can't see.

[Ambatman]

What problem does this solve exactly? The negative coin if possible would have every similarity. It's not going to solve a problem that the original coin doesn't already address. So why would anyone choose to use the negative version of the coins?

It is only about bringing more value with the same level of power consumption and other investments related to BitGoldLayer. Honestly, dropping output values that have the same probability level as the main coin of a PoW-based network is somewhat like wasting a huge amount of energy—like a gem we just can't see.

I don't agree with this. Yes it seems to be bringing a form of full utilisation of resources
But The energy cost is tied to the search for a valid hash, not the specific output pattern
Negative Coin consensus rule (accepting hashes with trailing ones) is incompatible with Bitcoin's (leading zeros).

[stwenhao]

Congratulations, you just invented Merged Mining: you can mine Bitcoin, and your Negative Coin, while working on the same block headers. Some of your hashes will be accepted only in Bitcoin, and others only in your Negative Coin. But because there is no overlapping, then you will have no block, which would be valid in both networks at the same time.

why don’t we consider passing them through a simple NOT gate?

Because then, your blocks will be valid only in your network, or in Bitcoin, but never in both. Usually, people want to mine blocks, which could be valid in both networks, because then, they can mine their altcoins, and see the progress, while also having some low-but-never-zero chances of hitting a valid Bitcoin mainnet block, and getting 3.125 BTC (at the time of writing) plus fees. By making it strictly separated, you just make it harder to make swaps between your altcoin, and Bitcoin.

[mixoftix]

But The energy cost is tied to the search for a valid hash, not the specific output pattern.

The core idea behind Negative-Coin also searches for a valid hash, just after a NOT gate. but when when look into the matched-hash from a binary point of view, it looks like a pattern, but we still need to find a match for bits field in block header.

[mixoftix]

Congratulations, you just invented Merged Mining: you can mine Bitcoin, and your Negative Coin, while working on the same block headers. Some of your hashes will be accepted only in Bitcoin, and others only in your Negative Coin. But because there is no overlapping, then you will have no block, which would be valid in both networks at the same time.

Thank you, Stwenhao.
Now, I can explain the core idea in more detail. Let's look at what happens during a mining process. We create a block header (Block: 897,260) and work through a series of nonces—then modify the timestamp (bfe52968) or coinbase transaction and continue:

on_chain_header_hex = "00c0002009b40357a6f4f5f92a1536d6dab86b8e43ba0d8df267010000000000000000004af906d 3c6bb6faf7b8aa8c8b5d76cfae02c7b065e744fad75fb31c9b2d19d9ebfe5296849500217bf9100 e6"

The nonce "bf9100e6" could lead us to the expected block hash:
"00000000000000000001dced560630cedb4c741e1c9adb93be7e045e46a34bc5"

And satisfy the target:
"0000000000000000000250490000000000000000000000000000000000000000"

======================================
But imagine that during the same mining process, if I was also able to find a negative match with different "Timestamp: bfe52979" and nonce "4f91aee6"—so why do we simply discard it? All we need is to allow optional space in the block for these new small values. Once they exist, we could benefit from them in several ways:

- Impact on selfish mining: Blocks with dual nonces would have priority as winner blocks.
- Impact on 51% attacks: Blocks with dual nonces would have priority as winner blocks.
- Greater resistance against quantum attacks that directly target the blockchain’s infrastructure.

And this list could expand if the idea proves its merit.

Then, one could also consider possible extra rewards on the current Bitcoin network or as an complementary incentive on another blockchain.

[Ambatman]

Congratulations, you just invented Merged Mining: you can mine Bitcoin, and your Negative Coin, while working on the same block headers. Some of your hashes will be accepted only in Bitcoin, and others only in your Negative Coin. But because there is no overlapping, then you will have no block, which would be valid in both networks at the same time.

I don't understand. How can this work in a mutually exclusive condition
No single hash can satisfy both chains, preventing true merged mining.

Some of your hashes will be accepted only in Bitcoin, and others only in your Negative Coin.

So the hashrate would be split but I thought Merged mining allows a single hash to secure both chains
In what I could understand from your post,
miners would need to compute separate block headers for each chain and check hashes against both criteria
Like they are working in parallel.

The core idea behind Negative-Coin also searches for a valid hash, just after a NOT gate. but when when look into the matched-hash from a binary point of view, it looks like a pattern, but we still need to find a match for bits field in block header.

Okay. I think am getting close to understanding where you coming from
The condition is either this or that not both which I believe rule out the fact it's merged mining.
Miners must work on separate block headers for each chain, as transactions and merkle roots differ.

[mixoftix]

Okay. I think am getting close to understanding where you coming from
The condition is either this or that not both which I believe rule out the fact it's merged mining.
Miners must work on separate block headers for each chain, as transactions and merkle roots differ.

Thank you, Ambatman..

The core idea is about keep a negative-hash value we may possibly find during a very normal mining process, that we regularly discard them. Just think if we keep and write them in blocks - once they get found! This is assumed there might be lots of benefits in. Just tried to explain it in more detail in reply above (to stwenhao).

[Ambatman]

Thank you, Ambatman..

The core idea is about keep a negative-hash value we may possibly find during a very normal mining process, that we regularly discard them. Just think if we keep and write them in blocks - once they get found! This is assumed there might be lots of benefits in. Just tried to explain it in more detail in reply above (to stwenhao).

Yeah I made the post before the above so sent it before checking the newer explanation.

Sniped

Thank you mixoftix for further clarification. It's clearer now.
Instead of discarding these hashes, store their nonces or metadata in the block
I can see the benefits in this as you have mentioned.

But Storing negative nonces is practical in a separate Negative Coin blockchain or sidechain,
but including them in Bitcoin's block requires a protocol change, which is unlikely

This is assumed there might be lots of benefits in.

Yeah assuming it meets demand and doesn't end as namecoin.

[stwenhao]

so why do we simply discard it?

Because it is done by the default implementation. But nothing stops you from keeping more blocks. For example: if you have mining pools, then they accept blocks meeting lower difficulty, and they are called "shares". And then, centralized pools can split the coinbase reward between miners, based on their shares.

And nothing stops you from keeping other kind of hashes, starting from ones, instead of zeroes, or forming any other patterns you want to trace.

Blocks with dual nonces would have priority as winner blocks.

In the current consensus, different candidating blocks on the same height are treated as equal, and the first-seen block is used to build on top of it. But of course, if there are many candidating blocks, then you can pick whatever block you like, because you will have the same chances to make a new block on top of that, and broadcast it to everyone.

Greater resistance against quantum attacks that directly target the blockchain’s infrastructure.

Your changes don't affect quantum resistance in any way.

Then, one could also consider possible extra rewards on the current Bitcoin network or as an complementary incentive on another blockchain.

Well, you can have just your own chain with extra blocks, like P2Pool did in the past. They used 20 times lower difficulty, to accept more blocks, but you can do similar things with other patterns, if you want to. Of course, if your valid block will never be a valid Bitcoin block, then you will only extend one of the chains, which will make interactions between networks harder, but it is your choice, and technically, you can do it, if you want to.

No single hash can satisfy both chains, preventing true merged mining.

If you mine things, based on the same block template, and just capture more cases, then you produce valid Bitcoin blocks, and valid altcoin blocks, with the same computing power. Which means, that you can use Merged Mining, but your additional computing power will simply never be contributed to the Bitcoin network (which is why it is pointless, but technically, it can be done, if someone wants to get that kind of outcome).

I thought Merged mining allows a single hash to secure both chains

Yes, it does, but if you make your altcoin blocks strictly incompatible with the original network, then your computing power will mine both chains (so you will use Merged Mining), while securing only one of them, when you hit a valid block (which is why nobody did that before).

miners would need to compute separate block headers for each chain and check hashes against both criteria

No, I thought about working on the same block header, but just using more criterias. In the same way, you can also check, if your block hash matches the binary representation of some "pi" approximation.

Miners must work on separate block headers for each chain, as transactions and merkle roots differ.

If you will use different headers, then it won't use Merged Mining. But if you will, then you can enjoy some benefits of that model.

[odolvlobo]

Just curious—since the probability of finding a hash that meets the target difficulty with enough trailing zeros is the same as finding a hash with trailing ones, why don’t we consider passing them through a simple NOT gate?...

I want to point out that although basing the target on the number of 0-bits was discussed in the white paper, that is not how Bitcoin was implemented. Instead of comparing the number of zeroes, a valid hash must be less than or equal to the target when both are considered as numbers.

Counting zeroes (or ones) is not feasible because the difficulty can only ever change by a power of two. Your negative coin will have to be implemented differently in order to work.

[mcdouglasx]

This seems somewhat incongruent to me, because even if a negative coin could be generated, how would it be used? Its transactions would need distinct blocks and a different PoW, so it wouldn’t be simply reusing computational power. Instead, it would just be creating a forked currency that would require additional PoW for its use.