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Question: You want the assurance goes from 90 days to 365?  (Voting closed: October 30, 2015, 08:44:28 AM)
absolutely yes - 23 (41.1%)
absolutely no - 6 (10.7%)
is indifferent - 4 (7.1%)
180 day - 23 (41.1%)
Total Voters: 56

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Author Topic: A new poll for product warranties Bitmain  (Read 2509 times)
marvykkio
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October 04, 2015, 08:44:28 AM
Last edit: October 04, 2015, 11:04:48 AM by marvykkio
 #1

open voting Grin

please vote for more people as possible thanks
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philipma1957
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October 04, 2015, 04:10:17 PM
 #2

I voted for 180 as I have stated before I believe 90 is too short and 1 year is too long but that 180 is a decent compromise.

It would be nice if bitmaintech extends the 90 to 180  hell it would be nicer if they went to a year,but 180 is still 2x the current 90.

I mine alt coins with https://simplemining.net...
I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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October 04, 2015, 05:28:43 PM
 #3

philipma thanks to this I added 180 days
If people vote the final result will be sent directly to bitmain. Smiley
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October 04, 2015, 07:26:18 PM
 #4

Everyone will vote for longer warranty if it was truly free. You need to add a cost or it is a meaningless poll.
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October 04, 2015, 08:00:10 PM
 #5

open voting Grin

please vote for more people as possible thanks

I dont think one year is a good idea. The prime lifetime of a miner is something around 6 months after its original online-ing. As such you'd have to produce many spares for the S5 while its already obsolete. That make absolutely no sense.

A system where if your miner goes crap after 3 months would be to receive part value in coupon toward the next miner. I don't think it would be a good idea for Bitmain to continue producing antminer S5's until the end of 2016 just because some people bought one in late 2015.

Think about it. Why the hell would they do that AND why the hell would WE want them to do that. It would jack up the price a whole lot and i'd be even harder to ROI.
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October 04, 2015, 08:41:05 PM
 #6

90 days is short but reasonable given the type of product it is, it has a short life span and it's made in limited batches. Don't think it serves the ROI well to push for extended warranty.

The miner would be field tested and faults in chips and such should appear fairly fast if the miners are put to work immediately.
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October 04, 2015, 10:09:52 PM
 #7

This is a silly question, of course everyone wants longer warranties but its not always practical. You make a finite number of miners in a finite number of batches. You keep a small number of parts to fix future miners. Having to repair miners far beyond their useful lifetimes means everyone is paying for 0.2 miners + labour + shipping alongside their miner.

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October 04, 2015, 11:32:56 PM
 #8

This is a silly question, of course everyone wants longer warranties but its not always practical. You make a finite number of miners in a finite number of batches. You keep a small number of parts to fix future miners. Having to repair miners far beyond their useful lifetimes means everyone is paying for 0.2 miners + labour + shipping alongside their miner.

That would be my fear it is something customers would still be paying for.  It would be tacked on at time of sale on the sales price.  So assuming you have no issues in X extra day's you paid more then you would have had. If somehow you have a bad unit yes this would be great for you.  But bitmain is not going to eat a cost like this.

It's just a different type of product.  The asic world moves fast.  They are looking twords future in most cases and not "old" miners for lack of better term.  If you expect warranty like a GPU for example, it just is not going to happen.
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October 04, 2015, 11:43:47 PM
 #9

This is a silly question, of course everyone wants longer warranties but its not always practical. You make a finite number of miners in a finite number of batches. You keep a small number of parts to fix future miners. Having to repair miners far beyond their useful lifetimes means everyone is paying for 0.2 miners + labour + shipping alongside their miner.

That would be my fear it is something customers would still be paying for.  It would be tacked on at time of sale on the sales price.  So assuming you have no issues in X extra day's you paid more then you would have had. If somehow you have a bad unit yes this would be great for you.  But bitmain is not going to eat a cost like this.

It's just a different type of product.  The asic world moves fast.  They are looking twords future in most cases and not "old" miners for lack of better term.  If you expect warranty like a GPU for example, it just is not going to happen.

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out.

So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.

Having to ship the unit and wait for it to come back often mean you might as well just buy a new one, which is ridiculous.

Then when the warranty is expired, you should still be able to buy S5's parts, where they will go to their mine, grab a miner and strip it down and sell you the part individually. They CAN do this, since again, we know they still have S5's and pretty much everything for more than 1 year after a miner is out of stock.

I just don't think we should be expecting to be covered for free for more than 3 months. I'm just thinking Bitmain's work ethics and customer service post sale for people with defective units is poor at best.
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October 05, 2015, 01:36:07 AM
 #10

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out.

So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.

Having to ship the unit and wait for it to come back often mean you might as well just buy a new one, which is ridiculous.

Then when the warranty is expired, you should still be able to buy S5's parts, where they will go to their mine, grab a miner and strip it down and sell you the part individually. They CAN do this, since again, we know they still have S5's and pretty much everything for more than 1 year after a miner is out of stock.

I just don't think we should be expecting to be covered for free for more than 3 months. I'm just thinking Bitmain's work ethics and customer service post sale for people with defective units is poor at best.

If they did what you suggested it would be an amazing customer service upgrade.  But I don't see it happening on a lot.  On pictures sadly "scammers/ bad guys" would abuse the system.  Say they say controller does not work... get controller and sell it.  Does not work that well if everyone is not honest.

Also some parts are fixed and used again. Most common is controller's for example S3/S5 if you did not have gear it could be stuck as a brick.  You sent it in and they actually reused the parts flashing them and sending out again.   So some parts are good as a business to get back lowers cost compared to having to get a new controller vs using a fixed old one.

And using their personal mines for parts would be very nice of them.  But I don't expect they will start using this method as they loose mining money if done in decent quantity.   

You have some ideas that would be great to happen.  And I would love some of them, but as a business I don't see bitmain doing them.
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October 05, 2015, 01:55:08 AM
 #11

Back when I went through my S4 ordeal I offered to give them a deposit in BTC, or a credit card to cross ship me a PSU, but even though there was a known issue they just couldn't do it.
I don't think it gets any more fair than a guarantee they would receive the bad part back or they keep the deposit. They could even charge an actual deposit to the card and refund it once the part is back.

Obviously there are other scams which can be done, but all business take some of those same risks, and deal with them head-on while keeping customers happy. I have no doubt bitmain have talented people who can lay out ways to accomplish the same.

Transaction fees go to the pools and the pools decide to pay them to the miners. Anything else, including off-chain solutions are stealing and not the way Bitcoin was intended to function.
Make the block size set by the pool. Pool = miners and they get the choice.
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October 05, 2015, 02:42:53 AM
 #12

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out. So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.
Some farms operated by Bitmain are owned by third parties, like the S2 farm that was advertised. With a finite amount of space they don't necessarily hold sufficient stock of older miners.


Having to ship the unit and wait for it to come back often mean you might as well just buy a new one, which is ridiculous. Then when the warranty is expired, you should still be able to buy S5's parts, where they will go to their mine, grab a miner and strip it down and sell you the part individually. They CAN do this, since again, we know they still have S5's and pretty much everything for more than 1 year after a miner is out of stock.
At some point you have to say "no". Having customers indirectly pay 1-3x the value of a hashing board in air shipping makes no sense. An S5 hashing board (10 months since release) is worth probably $40 yet is going to cost far more than that to ship out. Why, what's the point, exactly who is winning here?

The customers who paid more for their S5s in the first place?
Bitmain who now has to administer 10x more returns?
Bitmain who now has to keep private farms of miners?
The customers who then have to then again pay more for their S5s in the first place?

The correct answer is only UPS and DHL win out of this.

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October 05, 2015, 04:15:39 AM
 #13

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out. So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.
Some farms operated by Bitmain are owned by third parties, like the S2 farm that was advertised. With a finite amount of space they don't necessarily hold sufficient stock of older miners.

Also it would long term kill the farm's.  It's hard to tell but most likely there is a piece that is most returned.   If they kept pulling from miners even a few a day this would really add up.

Imagine a farm with miners sitting on shelfs waiting to be parted out.  Just does not make sense.  I do agree it would be nice if they made some things in quantity they have long after warranty.  But as a business I cannot expect them to keep stock forever in a industry that moves so fast.

And asking to go from 90 to 1 year is just a lot.  If you wanted more reasonable find some reason that 4-5 months is needed over 3.  If you can find a reason X part craps out every... or some justification that is good enough to warrant them moving it.  Unless we have some good justification then we want better I don't see it happening.
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October 05, 2015, 05:25:05 AM
 #14

so you're telling me that after 3 months, you break a pcb, after one week break the other, I can throw the miner without being able to buy spare parts? by boys it is absurd.

bitmain could do so: give 6 months warranty and 90 days,
for spare parts after expiry of the 180-day warranty I must be borne by the buyer,
spare parts will only be available for 365 days.

so a user knows that the expiry of 180 days, regardless of its miners work or not, may decide to buy a pair of PCB and set aside in case it fails.

so does a good company, not as bitmain ago, many of us are working with one single PCB, or miner put aside because all 2 pcb burned, and you can not even replace them.

bitmain has a wrong policy.

2 are the things, I put towards more days of warranty and spare parts to the customer,
or it begins to use good material, and not bad material, because what use is bitmain bad material.
we want to see how many of us have burned pcb that do not work?
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October 05, 2015, 05:32:10 AM
 #15

Bitmain could still have a better replacement system. For instance they can and they do run the "outdated hardware" in their own mines for an extended period of time. We know that they keep some, since we know they still have some S2's. Since they can ship them out. So they could easily have a portion of the miners alloted to stripping down for parts when needed. For instance if its within the 3 month garante, you could maybe send a picture proof and get a replacement shipped.
Some farms operated by Bitmain are owned by third parties, like the S2 farm that was advertised. With a finite amount of space they don't necessarily hold sufficient stock of older miners.

Also it would long term kill the farm's.  It's hard to tell but most likely there is a piece that is most returned.   If they kept pulling from miners even a few a day this would really add up.

Imagine a farm with miners sitting on shelfs waiting to be parted out.  Just does not make sense.  I do agree it would be nice if they made some things in quantity they have long after warranty.  But as a business I cannot expect them to keep stock forever in a industry that moves so fast.

And asking to go from 90 to 1 year is just a lot.  If you wanted more reasonable find some reason that 4-5 months is needed over 3.  If you can find a reason X part craps out every... or some justification that is good enough to warrant them moving it.  Unless we have some good justification then we want better I don't see it happening.

Well there shouldn't be that many miner breaking down and needing to be replaced, but if so then yes. They need to be able to fulfill their warranty anyways, and having miners offline on shelves waiting to be used as replacement for buyers isint really good because its wasted value.

So they should mine with them. People would get used part replacement but then you're sure they're working right.

From what i understand right now, Bitmain have you ship back your miner and they try to fix it, then ship it back, sometime they mess up and forget parts and do not fix it. Overall its a pretty abysmal quality of service.
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October 05, 2015, 05:51:30 AM
 #16

This happens because the chips are built with poor materials, which is why we have many errors, and many burned pcb
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October 05, 2015, 01:12:51 PM
 #17

Well there shouldn't be that many miner breaking down and needing to be replaced, but if so then yes. They need to be able to fulfill their warranty anyways, and having miners offline on shelves waiting to be used as replacement for buyers isint really good because its wasted value.

So they should mine with them. People would get used part replacement but then you're sure they're working right.

From what i understand right now, Bitmain have you ship back your miner and they try to fix it, then ship it back, sometime they mess up and forget parts and do not fix it. Overall its a pretty abysmal quality of service.

The problem with this is people who have had bad luck on their returns stick out and get much more attention.  As humans less people go on forums and say thanks for X RMA.  But if problem very good chance it goes to board.

I have had good experience's with bitmain.  I was out of warranty period on S3 needed a controller that was not brick I paid them for it and they shipped it quickly to me.  Now the C1 was syscooling but yes I had horrible experience there.

And I'm not a suck up on bitmain.   But i think they are getting a bad wrap.  No doubt some of the stories we hear they deserve it.  But the stories we don't hear and the machines that keep working they don't get the credit for those.

I'm sure this is not what people want to hear or know.  If anything they are getting more tightened on warranty.  Look at S5+ they shipped with every unit and sent paper - https://bitmain.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206312085-New-S5-Hong-Kong-China-Warranty-  .  Basically if you want to modify it and do not get permission you broke warranty.  If you use 2 instead of 3 PCIe you break warranty.   The list goes on.  But I think they will get more tightened if current continues, and not go the way of more day's and better RMA.
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October 05, 2015, 01:40:22 PM
 #18

This happens because the chips are built with poor materials, which is why we have many errors, and many burned pcb

The chip are not build with poor materials. The materials around the chip is cheap.

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October 05, 2015, 04:19:56 PM
 #19

Best of luck on this adventure. It seems a lot like when the Indiana legislature wanted define the value of Pi to make math easier, decades ago.
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October 05, 2015, 04:24:02 PM
 #20

Well there shouldn't be that many miner breaking down and needing to be replaced, but if so then yes. They need to be able to fulfill their warranty anyways, and having miners offline on shelves waiting to be used as replacement for buyers isint really good because its wasted value.

So they should mine with them. People would get used part replacement but then you're sure they're working right.

From what i understand right now, Bitmain have you ship back your miner and they try to fix it, then ship it back, sometime they mess up and forget parts and do not fix it. Overall its a pretty abysmal quality of service.

The problem with this is people who have had bad luck on their returns stick out and get much more attention.  As humans less people go on forums and say thanks for X RMA.  But if problem very good chance it goes to board.

I have had good experience's with bitmain.  I was out of warranty period on S3 needed a controller that was not brick I paid them for it and they shipped it quickly to me.  Now the C1 was syscooling but yes I had horrible experience there.

And I'm not a suck up on bitmain.   But i think they are getting a bad wrap.  No doubt some of the stories we hear they deserve it.  But the stories we don't hear and the machines that keep working they don't get the credit for those.

I'm sure this is not what people want to hear or know.  If anything they are getting more tightened on warranty.  Look at S5+ they shipped with every unit and sent paper - https://bitmain.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206312085-New-S5-Hong-Kong-China-Warranty-  .  Basically if you want to modify it and do not get permission you broke warranty.  If you use 2 instead of 3 PCIe you break warranty.   The list goes on.  But I think they will get more tightened if current continues, and not go the way of more day's and better RMA.

Well i hope so, but i can't see RMA/customer service being proper for returns when the only way to get it replaced if its broken is usually sending the part back if under warranty, which may cost as much as just buying a replacement part? Hence its not really a warranty if you need to pay for it?

And yeah i guess i shouldn't place my opinion based on what i hear, but i think the aforementioned issue is objectively based.
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