Spending VERY Large Amounts of Bitcoin?

[gentlemand]

Contact Tim Draper. He might be interested.

He might be a tad butthurt still. But that's the class of person you want to get in touch with. I'm sure an awful lot of deals are bubbling away a long way from any exchange.

[neurotypical]

But, i think it's impossible to sell 100,000BTC at once because few reason :

Ofcourse is possible. You make an OTC trade or you make an auction as FBI did. No big buyer will go and spend few millions on a exchange and move price up by doing it, they are nto stupid, they will try to get their bitcoins as cheap as possible. Same will do big sellers.

Well if I was the FBI and wanted to catch people trying to do money laundering throught Bitcoin I would act as a FBI dude that want to buy your 100.000 BTC and once your details are delivered then it's game over.
I don't understand why you think you can simply launder money throught BTC like it's nothing. If you want to sleep at night then pay your taxes guys, there's no other way around it, like it or not.

[SwagGirl]

This guy sold $9 million at one time:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/bearwhale-is-freaking-out-the-bitcoin-markets.html


Another time more recently a $2m margin call created a flash crash on BTC-E (?).

So all depends on the state of the market.

Having said that I notice I nice steady light increase in BTC price.  My guess for what its worth is that Winlevoss or some other institutional player is making buys to maintain such a trend.

[countryfree]

Exchanges are like banks, they must report all large or suspicious transaction. In Europe, I think every transaction over €30,000 must be checked. Regarding exchanges, I would look for their total amount of transactions in a day, and as a safety measure, I would never make a transaction over one tenth of that amount.

[OROBTC]

Exchanges are like banks, they must report all large or suspicious transaction. In Europe, I think every transaction over €30,000 must be checked. Regarding exchanges, I would look for their total amount of transactions in a day, and as a safety measure, I would never make a transaction over one tenth of that amount.

I may as well mention this now.  What brought this on for me was an interest in seeing how we can sell our home for "more than it is worth".  We will start offering at a very high price to Chinese, Brazilians and Russians outside the USA.  If we don't sell it in the months that follow, well, we will lower our price (to "market") and just allow the normal Realtor-process take it.

We have the time and a very nice place for some overseas rich family.  This might just work, and, if not no harm done.

I was curious about Chinese large holders of Bitcoin.  That would be a convenient way for them (or Russians or Brazilians) to get some of their capital OUT.  They can report any transactions to their authorities, we would report any such transactions to the US authorities.


Would I give a crap if someone in China sends out capital perhaps bending that country's rules?

No.

[Amph]

I don't think anybody with such a large amounts of Bitcoins will try to sell them at once. Maybe in the future when some big businesses start accepting Bitcoin and then from time to time they will exchange there Bitcoins for dollars for example, but they the will buy some Bitcoins back in my opinion.

why not, if he declare is income and everything is transparent, i don't see any problem in selling large amount of bitcoin, you need verification on any exchange for that amount, so they have everything to track you if needed

or maybe you want to sell to buy big later, so it's just a trading activity in this case ti should be even more easy to do, because the money will never leave the exchange

[prodigy8]

Exchanges are like banks, they must report all large or suspicious transaction. In Europe, I think every transaction over €30,000 must be checked. Regarding exchanges, I would look for their total amount of transactions in a day, and as a safety measure, I would never make a transaction over one tenth of that amount.

I think that every transaction that is 5 or more digits will be checked.
When people buys cars, house or something these are large transactions, especially selling million of bitcoin.
It is possible to sell at once but maybe banks or the country will ask further information about these kind of transactions.

[TastyChillySauce00]

sell it periodically and it'll give more profit than selling in one time , if you're selling all your btc in one time it will affect the market price and probably 30% of your bitcoin will be sold at very low prices

[Arcteryx]

This guy sold $9 million at one time:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/10/bearwhale-is-freaking-out-the-bitcoin-markets.html


Another time more recently a $2m margin call created a flash crash on BTC-E (?).

So all depends on the state of the market.

Having said that I notice I nice steady light increase in BTC price.  My guess for what its worth is that Winlevoss or some other institutional player is making buys to maintain such a trend.

So that's how this kind of market works. That is the strangest thing I ever saw before.
Only thought it happens in the stock market. Now I know why the price drops so dramatically all the sudden.
BearWhale what a name 

[Omikifuse]

I don't think anybody with such a large amounts of Bitcoins will try to sell them at once. Maybe in the future when some big businesses start accepting Bitcoin and then from time to time they will exchange there Bitcoins for dollars for example, but they the will buy some Bitcoins back in my opinion.

why not, if he declare is income and everything his transparent, i don't see any problem in selling large amount of bitcoin, you need verification on any exchange for that amount, so they have everything to track you if needed

or maybe you want to sell to buy big later, so it's just a trading activity in this case ti should be even more easy to do, because the money will never leave the exchange

the problem is you may create a flash crash and lose money, like happened to some people.

and having it declared won't stop the bank to be a nuisance for you, so you might have your account frozen for some time until all things are sorted

[aakashsangwan]

But, i think it's impossible to sell 100,000BTC at once because few reason :

Ofcourse is possible. You make an OTC trade or you make an auction as FBI did. No big buyer will go and spend few millions on a exchange and move price up by doing it, they are nto stupid, they will try to get their bitcoins as cheap as possible. Same will do big sellers.

So, how can you find anyone willing to do OTC trade or how can you have authority to make an auction of bitcoin, just like what FBI did. Government would ask why you have 100,000BTC & so on.
But, there are few big buyer/seller who would do it through exchange & made bitcoin price unstable

you are correct but if anyone wants to sell this much then definetly he will come under law problem , because this is very huge amount of transactions, ya but big buyer /seller can do because that they are trading through exchange where their all income tax details will be updated.

[forevernoob]

Exchanges are like banks, they must report all large or suspicious transaction. In Europe, I think every transaction over €30,000 must be checked. Regarding exchanges, I would look for their total amount of transactions in a day, and as a safety measure, I would never make a transaction over one tenth of that amount.

I may as well mention this now.  What brought this on for me was an interest in seeing how we can sell our home for "more than it is worth".  We will start offering at a very high price to Chinese, Brazilians and Russians outside the USA.  If we don't sell it in the months that follow, well, we will lower our price (to "market") and just allow the normal Realtor-process take it.

We have the time and a very nice place for some overseas rich family.  This might just work, and, if not no harm done.

I was curious about Chinese large holders of Bitcoin.  That would be a convenient way for them (or Russians or Brazilians) to get some of their capital OUT.  They can report any transactions to their authorities, we would report any such transactions to the US authorities.


Would I give a crap if someone in China sends out capital perhaps bending that country's rules?

No.

So you want to sell your house for BTC and then exchange it for USD?

[Q7]

Well they could sell the coins at different exchangers and it will certainly cause the price to go down quickly, so at this stage liquidity might be an issue. Plus if you are converting with large amount, probably the guy would not get 2.5mil per market price but instead ended up only maybe 1.8 or less, if he decides to convert and sell at available spot price.

[confirmation120]

I would suggest doing huge trades face to face to avoid problems.

[OROBTC]

Exchanges are like banks, they must report all large or suspicious transaction. In Europe, I think every transaction over €30,000 must be checked. Regarding exchanges, I would look for their total amount of transactions in a day, and as a safety measure, I would never make a transaction over one tenth of that amount.

I may as well mention this now.  What brought this on for me was an interest in seeing how we can sell our home for "more than it is worth".  We will start offering at a very high price to Chinese, Brazilians and Russians outside the USA.  If we don't sell it in the months that follow, well, we will lower our price (to "market") and just allow the normal Realtor-process take it.

We have the time and a very nice place for some overseas rich family.  This might just work, and, if not no harm done.

I was curious about Chinese large holders of Bitcoin.  That would be a convenient way for them (or Russians or Brazilians) to get some of their capital OUT.  They can report any transactions to their authorities, we would report any such transactions to the US authorities.


Would I give a crap if someone in China sends out capital perhaps bending that country's rules?

No.

So you want to sell your house for BTC and then exchange it for USD?

We want the best price period.  We have some time, so we will start out by overpricing.  And the best prospects for that are from foreign buyers.  Those who want a nice asset sitting outside of their countries, away from their local tax man.  And there are plenty of them -- foreign buyers sitting on US real estate, in some cases hardly visiting their place...

It is not necessary that the sale be in BTC.  Offering payment options in full or in part w/ BTC seems smart.  It is an experiment, I have no really good idea if it would work.

It all depends.  We will see.

[Amph]

I would suggest doing huge trades face to face to avoid problems.

and to avoid dumping to much on the exchane , which would be bad for your conversion because you will lose money after breaking all the buy wall

this if you need the whole sum fast and to exchange it in one sit

[zipmaster]

Google "bear whale bitcoin"...

[adamstgBit]

today bitstamps did >6million dollars in trades
bitfinex did >2million
btc-e >1.5million

~10million dollars in trades today so far.
-snip-

-snip-
So, a realistic maximum amount would be on the order of $5 million worth of BTC in a day or two and still get a decent price.
-snip-
Glen Gamow, thank you for the risk advice.

I dont know where these numbers come from, but they make no sense. Trading volume includes more than just what you need to sell. The largest orderbook I could find was bitstamp. You can use this site[1]'s "Estimate Trading" tool to play around with it yourself. If you sell 5000 BTC you would receive  1,190,290 USD @ 239/BTC average and drop the price down to 221. You might get new orders afterwards, but you might also cause a crash.

[1] https://bitcoinwisdom.com/markets/bitstamp/btcusd

the thing is the amount of trades that happen on the front lines daily is nearly 1 order of magnitude  higher than the bid sum on any given day. of course if you market sell 5K coins in 5 seconds you'll drop the price, but if you sell 100coins every half hour for 24 hours you might not drop price at all.

so  if you setup some OTC trades and quickly(24hours) sell of some coins on exchanges AND buy something expensive
(https://www.bitpremier.com/) i guess you could get away with 1-10million of value without dropping price by very much at all.

[BitMaxz]

In my country its hard to withdraw that very high cost because theres a wallet cashout limit in my country maybe i can withdraw only 5 btc per day directly to my bank account but above 5 btc we need to verify our address verification but the limit is only 20btc perday...

[Arcteryx]

In my country its hard to withdraw that very high cost because theres a wallet cashout limit in my country maybe i can withdraw only 5 btc per day directly to my bank account but above 5 btc we need to verify our address verification but the limit is only 20btc perday...

This is not good for bitcoin. It should limitless to compete with the banks hold on our money.
I do still believe bitcoin should be a "free" way to pay for things.