Help me complete my goal

[logansryche]

That's a nifty spreadsheet - haven't seen one go live before.
I've changed some of the values to reflect actual costs.

[Rassah]

Do your actual costs include the cost of collecting, buying, and printing/painting text and art? Who will be doing the art printing on the picks, whom is the art and logo coming from and how much are they charging, and will you need to buy specialized printing hardware to print stuff onto the picks? Or will all text, logos, and art be done freehand with paint and brush, by yourself, for free?

[logansryche]

Do your actual costs include the cost of collecting, buying, and printing/painting text and art? Who will be doing the art printing on the picks, whom is the art and logo coming from and how much are they charging, and will you need to buy specialized printing hardware to print stuff onto the picks? Or will all text, logos, and art be done freehand with paint and brush, by yourself, for free?

Art comes from a creative commons license that allows me to print any logo I wish as long as I don't claim copyright to it(which I don't). Art will be done by printer with transfer sheets.

[Rassah]

Art will be done by printer with transfer sheets.

Then you'll need to estimate the cost of ink and transfer sheet per pick. Then figure out your inventory, and reduce the loan to only buy what you actually need

[Rassah]

Actually, if each pick only costs $0.05, I'm not sure why you need a loan in the first place. Why not spend $20 of our own money to buy 400 picks, sell those, and use the sales proceeds to buy more? The only reason for borrowing is if you were fairly confident you could sell a few thousand picks in your first month or two (or to dump the business risk on the lenders, letting them pay for Tor business, and defaulting on them if the business fails).

Also, what reason would people have to buy a blank pick with your logo from you for $0.35, instead of a completely blank pick from your supplier for $0.05? What is the value that you are adding that you at charging $0.30 for? Honest question.

[logansryche]

Actually, if each pick only costs $0.05, I'm not sure why you need a loan in the first place. Why not spend $20 of our own money to buy 400 picks, sell those, and use the sales proceeds to buy more? The only reason for borrowing is if you were fairly confident you could sell a few thousand picks in your first month or two (or to dump the business risk on the lenders, letting them pay for Tor business, and defaulting on them if the business fails).

Also, what reason would people have to buy a blank pick with your logo from you for $0.35, instead of a completely blank pick from your supplier for $0.05? What is the value that you are adding that you at charging $0.30 for? Honest question.

Yeah I supose I could do that. Start smaller and work my way out. Reasoning is simple. There's no US supplier that cheap. Supplier I found is out of china with free shipping.

[paraipan]

That's a nifty spreadsheet - haven't seen one go live before.
...

+1 

[logansryche]

Took Rassah's advice and redit BTCJam add for 2btc, stretching it out as far as I can so monthly payments will be low.

https://btcjam.com/listings/505

[Rassah]

Updated spreadsheet to reflect your new loan info, with best and good case scenarios. Seems like an OK business, assuming you can get the sales numbers going (you'll need to find A LOT of guitar players every month). If you can, you should be able to make a profit, but you are basically signing yourself up for a salesman position. Good luck! 

[logansryche]

Yep I know, apreciate the help. Wasn't that long ago I discovered people were making earings and bracelets and necklaces with custom picks.
Very interesting thing besides playing with the darn things.

[repentance]

Art comes from a creative commons license that allows me to print any logo I wish as long as I don't claim copyright to it(which I don't). Art will be done by printer with transfer sheets.

That is not how creative commons licences work.  Creators who choose to release their work through creative commons licences can still impose limitations on the use of their work disallowing its use for commercial purposes or disallowing any modification of the original.

If you want to be able to use the work of others without restriction, you need to look for works which have a specific type of creative commons licence called a free culture licence.  Even though this is the most liberal of the creative commons licences, it still requires you to attribute the work to the creator and to publish the licence notice.  You can search for works which have been released under creative commons licences here.

http://search.creativecommons.org/

There is no such thing as a licence which you can obtain that allows you to use any logo you wish.  Many logos are trademarked and can't be used for commercial purposes without the express permission of the trademark holder (even non-commercial use can be a violation but they're less likely to pursue someone for that).

Seems like an OK business, assuming you can get the sales numbers going (you'll need to find A LOT of guitar players every month). If you can, you should be able to make a profit, but you are basically signing yourself up for a salesman position.

He also needs to factor in the time he spends on trying to sell his stock.  A hobby business like this which is likely to make only a small paper profit each month can have a significant opportunity cost if getting enough sales to stay in the black takes up a considerable amount of his time - and bulk orders aren't likely to just come to him, he's most likely going to have to do a lot of cold calling and other marketing.

I found guitar pick cutters for under USD 30, which means that it would be extremely economical for people wanting large quantities of custom picks to cut their own.  To make this business viable, logansryche needs to be able to offer images and/or materials which people can't easily obtain themselves.  Embedded images are more time consuming to produce so that market might be a more viable one.  The PVC sheeting for embedding images is relatively cheap (~10 cents per pick for small quantities) as is the glue.  Sanding the edges takes a little time, but you'd be doing that with any picks you punched from credit cards and the like, anyway.

Necklaces are likely to be way more profitable because the sale price is so much greater than the additional materials cost and they don't require a great deal more time to create.

[logansryche]

That is not how creative commons licences work.  Creators who choose to release their work through creative commons licences can still impose limitations on the use of their work disallowing its use for commercial purposes or disallowing any modification of the original. If you want to be able to use the work of others without restriction, you need to look for works which have a specific type of creative commons licence called a free culture licence.  Even though this is the most liberal of the creative commons licences, it still requires you to attribute the work to the creator and to publish the licence notice.  You can search for works which have been released under creative commons licences here. There is no such thing as a licence which you can obtain that allows you to use any logo you wish.  Many logos are trademarked and can't be used for commercial purposes without the express permission of the trademark holder (even non-commercial use can be a violation but they're less likely to pursue someone for that).

I dunno, seems like it works in my favor to me... http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ Even spoke to a few of the local lawyers and they agree that I can use this CC to obtain the pick images as long as I lay no claim that I own the images(which I don't). Trust me, I researched this license out carefully before using it.

He also needs to factor in the time he spends on trying to sell his stock.  A hobby business like this which is likely to make only a small paper profit each month can have a significant opportunity cost if getting enough sales to stay in the black takes up a considerable amount of his time - and bulk orders aren't likely to just come to him, he's most likely going to have to do a lot of cold calling and other marketing. I found guitar pick cutters for under USD 30, which means that it would be extremely economical for people wanting large quantities of custom picks to cut their own.  To make this business viable, logansryche needs to be able to offer images and/or materials which people can't easily obtain themselves.  Embedded images are more time consuming to produce so that market might be a more viable one.  The PVC sheeting for embedding images is relatively cheap (~10 cents per pick for small quantities) as is the glue.  Sanding the edges takes a little time, but you'd be doing that with any picks you punched from credit cards and the like, anyway. Necklaces are likely to be way more profitable because the sale price is so much greater than the additional materials cost and they don't require a great deal more time to create.

I dunno about you, but I don't know of any one that's willing to sit there and buy the sheet stock and then cut it, do you? I might offer in the future the option to have the pick punched for necklaces and the like. I believe you're over complicating what I'm trying to do, but to each their own.

[Snaer]

So the images you want to use have that CC licens attached to them? Can you show me some examples of the images you want to put on your picks, hon?

-Zoey

[repentance]

I dunno, seems like it works in my favor to me... http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ Even spoke to a few of the local lawyers and they agree that I can use this CC to obtain the pick images as long as I lay no claim that I own the images(which I don't). Trust me, I researched this license out carefully before using it.

Do you have problems with reading comprehension or something?  The very site you use as a reference clearly states that a creative commons licence is issued by the creator or rights holder of a work.  A free culture licence is the least restrictive of the creative commons licences but you can only reproduce something under a CC licence if the author has chosen to licence it that way.  There are 6 different types of CC licence and not all of them allow commercial use of a work even when it is a CC licensed work.  

General lawyers know shit all about IP law.  If the lawyers you've consulted have actually read anything about creative commons licensing rather than just relying on your total misinterpretation of how it works, then they would know damned well that only the creator or the rights holder of the work can licence it under CC.  

The only works which you can use in the manner you intend to use them are those where the creator/rights holder has chosen to make those works available under a free culture licence or those which are public domain.  You can't just use anyone's logo or trademark - the person who owns that IP has to specifically make it available under CC and they get to decide whether you can modify it in any way or use it commercially.

You can search for public domain images here.

http://www.public-domain-image.com/

There are multiple places you can search for CC images.

You seem to have a history of not grasping IP issues, whether in relation to TaleSpin, your movie theatre restoration project, or using images owned by others to make guitar picks you intend to sell.

[logansryche]

Do you have problems with reading comprehension or something?  The very site you use as a reference clearly states that a creative commons licence is issued by the creator or rights holder of a work.  A free culture licence is the least restrictive of the creative commons licences but you can only reproduce something under a CC licence if the author has chosen to licence it that way.  There are 6 different types of CC licence and not all of them allow commercial use of a work even when it is a CC licensed work.  

General lawyers know shit all about IP law.  If the lawyers you've consulted have actually read anything about creative commons licensing rather than just relying on your total misinterpretation of how it works, then they would know damned well that only the creator or the rights holder of the work can licence it under CC.  

The only works which you can use in the manner you intend to use them are those where the creator/rights holder has chosen to make those works available under a free culture licence or those which are public domain.  You can't just use anyone's logo or trademark - the person who owns that IP has to specifically make it available under CC and they get to decide whether you can modify it in any way or use it commercially.

You can search for public domain images here.

http://www.public-domain-image.com/

There are multiple places you can search for CC images.

You seem to have a history of not grasping IP issues, whether in relation to TaleSpin, your movie theatre restoration project, or using images owned by others to make guitar picks you intend to sell.

It's funny you mention those... Anyhow, did you read the entire cc past the summary? If you did, you'd also see that as a curtisy, I would ask the image holder permission to release the work under that license, which I have done with most of the images planned on being used for full art picks and some of the logos. No one's told me no yet either. I believe this project will stick, even if their not bought by users of this forum. That's the main point.

[repentance]

It's funny you mention those... Anyhow, did you read the entire cc past the summary? If you did, you'd also see that as a curtisy, I would ask the image holder permission to release the work under that license, which I have done with most of the images planned on being used for full art picks and some of the logos. No one's told me no yet either. I believe this project will stick, even if their not bought by users of this forum. That's the main point.

You realise that free culture licences require that you both attribute the work AND that you make clear the terms of the licence under which the work has been produced - you will need to put that information on the guitar pick itself to satisfy those requirements.

It doesn't matter if no-one's told you no yet.  Either the work must already be released under a CC licence or the rights holder will need to release it under a CC licence.  You cannot just write to Disney - for example - asking them to let you use TalesSpin images under a CC licence and then use those images to make guitar picks because they didn't tell you no; they must specifically tell you "yes" and specify exactly what kind of licence you can use the images under and what limitations apply to using it.

[Snaer]

Do you have problems with reading comprehension or something?  The very site you use as a reference clearly states that a creative commons licence is issued by the creator or rights holder of a work.  A free culture licence is the least restrictive of the creative commons licences but you can only reproduce something under a CC licence if the author has chosen to licence it that way.  There are 6 different types of CC licence and not all of them allow commercial use of a work even when it is a CC licensed work.  

General lawyers know shit all about IP law.  If the lawyers you've consulted have actually read anything about creative commons licensing rather than just relying on your total misinterpretation of how it works, then they would know damned well that only the creator or the rights holder of the work can licence it under CC.  

The only works which you can use in the manner you intend to use them are those where the creator/rights holder has chosen to make those works available under a free culture licence or those which are public domain.  You can't just use anyone's logo or trademark - the person who owns that IP has to specifically make it available under CC and they get to decide whether you can modify it in any way or use it commercially.

You can search for public domain images here.

http://www.public-domain-image.com/

There are multiple places you can search for CC images.

You seem to have a history of not grasping IP issues, whether in relation to TaleSpin, your movie theatre restoration project, or using images owned by others to make guitar picks you intend to sell.

It's funny you mention those... Anyhow, did you read the entire cc past the summary? If you did, you'd also see that as a curtisy, I would ask the image holder permission to release the work under that license, which I have done with most of the images planned on being used for full art picks and some of the logos. No one's told me no yet either. I believe this project will stick, even if their not bought by users of this forum. That's the main point.

So the images you are using have CC licenses attached? I asked above but you might have missed it.

Can you give us some examples of the logos you want to use?

Thanks hon.

-Zoey

[logansryche]

So the images you are using have CC licenses attached? I asked above but you might have missed it.
Can you give us some examples of the logos you want to use?
Thanks hon.

-Zoey

Not sure what you mean as I have alot.

You realise that free culture licences require that you both attribute the work AND that you make clear the terms of the licence under which the work has been produced - you will need to put that information on the guitar pick itself to satisfy those requirements. It doesn't matter if no-one's told you no yet.  Either the work must already be released under a CC licence or the rights holder will need to release it under a CC licence.  You cannot just write to Disney - for example - asking them to let you use TalesSpin images under a CC licence and then use those images to make guitar picks because they didn't tell you no; they must specifically tell you "yes" and specify exactly what kind of licence you can use the images under and what limitations apply to using it.

Well.. duh and no, I don't have to put it on the pick itself, but it is all over the cart I set up, but I won't show that until I'm ready to start production. You're still obviously misconstruing what this CC allows me to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC-BY-SA-3.0

[repentance]

Well.. duh and no, I don't have to put it on the pick itself, but it is all over the cart I set up, but I won't show that until I'm ready to start production. You're still obviously misconstruing what this CC allows me to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC-BY-SA-3.0

Do you even read the things you use as references?

Your own citation specifically states that attribution and citing the specific type of CC licence under which you are using the work are required.

- Include any copyright notices (if applicable). If the work itself contains any copyright notices placed there by the copyright holder, those notices must be left intact, or reproduced in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which the work is being re-published.
- Cite the author's name, screen name, or user ID, etc. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link that name to the person's profile page, if such a page exists.
- Cite the work's title or name (if applicable), if such a thing exists. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link the name or title directly to the original work.
- Cite the specific CC license the work is under. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice if the license citation links to the license on the CC website.
- Mention if the work is a derivative work or adaptation, in addition to the above, one needs to identify that their work is a derivative work i.e., “This is a Finnish translation of [original work] by [author].” or “Screenplay based on [original work] by [author].”

Additionally, the CC agreement itself to which you linked above explicitly states that

4. Restrictions. The license granted in Section 3 above is expressly made subject to and limited by the following restrictions:

You may Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work only under the terms of this License. You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform.

You must keep intact all notices that refer to this License and to the disclaimer of warranties with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform.

Every copy.  Not just a notice on the cart section of your website.  The reason it needs to be with every copy is because the terms of the licence itself mean that others can reproduce/modify it under the same licence which allowed you to reproduce/modify the work - the "share alike" provisions of a free culture CC licence require you to make others aware of that.  If you fail to do that, your right to reproduce the work under CC will be revoked automatically.

7. Termination

This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically upon any breach by You of the terms of this License.

[logansryche]

Well.. duh and no, I don't have to put it on the pick itself, but it is all over the cart I set up, but I won't show that until I'm ready to start production. You're still obviously misconstruing what this CC allows me to do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CC-BY-SA-3.0

Do you even read the things you use as references?

Your own citation specifically states that attribution and citing the specific type of CC licence under which you are using the work are required.

- Include any copyright notices (if applicable). If the work itself contains any copyright notices placed there by the copyright holder, those notices must be left intact, or reproduced in a way that is reasonable to the medium in which the work is being re-published.
- Cite the author's name, screen name, or user ID, etc. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link that name to the person's profile page, if such a page exists.
- Cite the work's title or name (if applicable), if such a thing exists. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice to link the name or title directly to the original work.
- Cite the specific CC license the work is under. If the work is being published on the Internet, it is nice if the license citation links to the license on the CC website.
- Mention if the work is a derivative work or adaptation, in addition to the above, one needs to identify that their work is a derivative work i.e., “This is a Finnish translation of [original work] by [author].” or “Screenplay based on [original work] by [author].”

Additionally, the CC agreement itself to which you linked above explicitly states that

4. Restrictions. The license granted in Section 3 above is expressly made subject to and limited by the following restrictions:

You may Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work only under the terms of this License. You must include a copy of, or the Uniform Resource Identifier (URI) for, this License with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform.

You must keep intact all notices that refer to this License and to the disclaimer of warranties with every copy of the Work You Distribute or Publicly Perform.

Every copy.  Not just a notice on the cart section of your website.  The reason it needs to be with every copy is because the terms of the licence itself mean that others can reproduce/modify it under the same licence which allowed you to reproduce/modify the work - the "share alike" provisions of a free culture CC licence require you to make others aware of that.  If you fail to do that, your right to reproduce the work under CC will be revoked automatically.

7. Termination

This License and the rights granted hereunder will terminate automatically upon any breach by You of the terms of this License.

Look, I know you're not trying to ride me but trying to make sure I'm doing things right, and I do appreciate it.
I do have all my bases covered(legally anyway), but now that you've brought up another point. Including a letter with the CC on it with ordered picks should be enough right? I mean, I don't just have a link to the CC on the main page but rather each pick states who the author is and that the pick image/logo was released under the CC-BY-SA. I believe the bitcoin logo falls under this somewhere.