A friendly warning: the SEC is all over these boards. Don't break any laws.

[americanpegasus]

I ran across this article back from November: http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-ponzi-schemer-charged-criminal-securities-fraud/.
  
Hory sheet.  700,000 bitcoins at its peak?  I can assure you if you run some kind of ponzi or scheme that violates US laws (and as you can see, a judge ruled that cryptocurrency ponzis are still illegal) then you have probably already caught the SEC's attention.  If you make a lot of money off of one of these schemes, they will almost certainly come after you.  With the EU ruling that Bitcoin is a currency, this is likely to only get more severe with time.  
  
Cryptocurrency, like the Internet in the 90's, is a new Wild West frontier.  As such there are a lot of ways to make a lot of legitimate riches.  There are also a lot of ways to violate traditional laws and get skullfucked by men in suits.  
  
Someone warned me they are aggressively looking for anyone here who claims their cryptocurrency represents a business, as this also is illegal (thanks fam).  It elevates your crypto to the status of a traditional security, and you aren't authorized to do that.  
  
Finally, though I'm not aware of anyone being brought up on charges yet for it, you can bet your ass that the first convictions for "internet securities fraud" are only a matter of time with respects to these cryptocurrencies.  Long story short, if you buy a bunch of a cheap shell crypto, then hype and pump up the price, then dump your share on the inflated price point you have helped create - you likely have a big target on your chest.  
  
Sorry to the many shills and suits here for this public service warning (u mad) but remember your goal is to catch the real bad guys, right?  Not pad your resume.  I'm just trying to warn any stupid teens or college students not to go down the path of the darkside and get on the wrong side of the law with this new technology.  
  
There's a lot of ways to make legitimate money in crypto.  A lot of us here today are going to be disgustingly rich one day.  Some of us will be in jail.  
  
Try to stay in the realms of the former.  

[spartacusrex]

So.. Looking at the article it says that when they charged him his 'fund' was worth $64M.

Now, those 700,000 coins are worth $200M.

So if they'd stuck with it, and not bitched like crying babies throwing their toys out of the pram, they'd all be rich.

hmm.. Where's the 'Ponzi' bit ?

..

.regulation retardation.

[dothebeats]

Thanks for the heads up. SEC and other people in suit and tie should really be watching these boards seeing that there are a lot of illegal stuff going on. However, I am not afraid of it; I consider myself legitimate and earning in legit ways. It's just that there are no regulations here or whatsoever that I should worry about. Bad for people who made millions and chose to defect from the good side that made the gov't follow them (Garza, Karpeles etc.).

[americanpegasus]

Well, the thing about Karpeles is that he wasn't some malevolent criminal mastermind.  He was just a guy who took on way too much fiscal responsibility and then fucked himself by not caring what he was doing.  
  
There was a different path Karpeles could have gone down, of strictly separating all accounts, constantly pushing to make his exchange as legitimate and transparent as possible, and in general doing his best to play by the rules.  
  
But he didn't, and abused the trust and power others placed in him, and ended up in jail.  
  
If you have any illusions about this being a lawless playground, you are in for a rude awakening.  You never know who is on the other end of that screen name, and it's likely that a lot more time and effort has gone into cryptocurrency than you think.  If you think you're going to be the dumbass who takes a shit all over a potential trillion dollar asset and gets away with it, think again.  
  
This is another lesson - some of us may find ourselves in positions where we have a chance to prove our worth by helping advance crypto in a legal and positive way through hard work and integrity.  I have no doubts that those who neglect their responsibilities (especially when it involves personal gain) will find themselves in seriously hot water down the road.

[RustyNomad]

Yes thanks for the reminder.

As a rule one should never post anything you are not willing to be repeated and or used in public. Which is kind of stating the obvious but many don't see their posts as being 'in the public' but just being on a forum.

The internet is PUBLIC and everything you say can and will be used against you when you least expect it.... 

[Amph]

well their legislation can not do shit to european or other country, and this is more true in countries were bitcoin is no where near regulated or free to use and not banned

i hate when the usa citizens speak about their rules like they are applyed to anyone

[aakashsangwan]

thanks for the reminder , but i am from india , and here still their is no law for bitcoin, but they still think bitcoin as a route of payment for silkroutes, so it is ilegal and so gouvernment are taking steps to collect information on bitcoin users.

[gentlemand]

hmm.. Where's the 'Ponzi' bit ?

Er, do you think he was faithfully tending those coins for his beloved customers?

And I don't think the SEC gives the remotest fuck. They have rather more important things to do with their time.

[Mickeyb]

SEC and NSA are all over everything, not just over Bitcoin. The US has ceased to be a land of free long time ago. Thanks God I live in Europe where just yesterday we got a beautiful present from the EU government and not like from the US government, regulation, regulation and making it harder for technology to strive.

And yes, don't do anything you wouldn't do in a real life here, especially if you are from the USA.

[Melds]

Bitcoin goes through teething issues just like any new technology.

[hunnaryb]

The internet still has lots of illicit behaviour and Bitcoin will likely be the same. It'll be a cat and mouse game.

[eyeknock]

hmm.. Where's the 'Ponzi' bit ?

i will tell you where is the ponzi here, on his minds... only on his minds.

also i will tell you what's his intentions, to take money in any way from this chicken, thats all they want.

They have rather more important things to do with their time.

nah, they are doing exactly what they need, find victims and sucking his blood...

[designerusa]

These type of schemes will always continue to hunt people because human psychology is so weak against it.
Just make them feel they invest and they earn. That's enough. Bitcoin is only tool.

[LiteCoinGuy]

"Calling his scheme Bitcoin Savings and Trust (BTCST), Shavers promised a 7% return per week to potential investors."


 

[NorrisK]

Anybody can and should realize that in public, non invite forums or other platform, everything you share or post is public.

Just follow the rules and you have no problems at all.

[DiamondCardz]

Funny thing is, BS&T was used by a whole bunch of people and was considered really trusted. Shows how easily people get sucked into that stuff, and even now you see the same old ponzi sites pop up, get a decent amount of deposits, pay out for a couple weeks, and then vanish with a bunch of profit.

[cjmoles]

Well, I hope they catch this guy and put in my cell!  I wont let him put his soap on a rope!  SEC or NSA, catch this guy and put him in MY cell please: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158117.0

[Meuh6879]

SEC or NSA, catch this guy and put him in MY cell please: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158117.0

[visual111]

this is uncharted territory indeed, especially when you start to get into crypto assets and things of that nature.

[silverleafy]

So what exactly would Law Enforcement be looking for on this forum? Besides the obvious ponzi's and illegal goods, what else would they look for that under some technicality is also illegal?

[maokoto]

It is true that one needs to be careful about this. You start by buying and investing, then you try trading, then begin to think about creating your own coin with no real purpose other than to make money... or to lend money to others for "investing".

The advice given by OP is good. Keep your senses and not go illegal.

[eternalgloom]

Anything that prevents people from posting ponzi's here is positive.

[Soros Shorts]

Funny thing is, BS&T was used by a whole bunch of people and was considered really trusted. Shows how easily people get sucked into that stuff, and even now you see the same old ponzi sites pop up, get a decent amount of deposits, pay out for a couple weeks, and then vanish with a bunch of profit.

I think a lot of people took it as a game back then. That was the era when plenty of people had hundreds or even thousands of BTC obtained at low cost and they were just throwing them around not caring too much if they lost it to a scam or ponzi.

[DiamondCardz]

Funny thing is, BS&T was used by a whole bunch of people and was considered really trusted. Shows how easily people get sucked into that stuff, and even now you see the same old ponzi sites pop up, get a decent amount of deposits, pay out for a couple weeks, and then vanish with a bunch of profit.

I think a lot of people took it as a game back then. That was the era when plenty of people had hundreds or even thousands of BTC obtained at low cost and they were just throwing them around not caring too much if they lost it to a scam or ponzi.

That's true. He still did make off with a ridiculous amount of money, even at the time though. I doubt that would happen today on Bitcointalk, but plenty of obvious ponzis come and scam for much smaller amounts all the time, so you never know if it could happen again or not...

[1aguar]

On BANX.io, I found this gem:

All trades to and from markets that benefit Banx Capital LLC., partners or otherwise are non-coerced donations to a for profit company and should be treated as such.

So, it is OK to run a company, as long as you are just "accepting donations". After all, bitcoin is mostly used for charity; right?