[ESHOP launched] Trezor: Bitcoin hardware wallet

[klokan]

Just testing my new Trezor to better understand it.  I sent myself 50 mBTC.  Then I sent 15 mBTC to another address in my Armory account.  On the blockchain, I can see that the 15 mBTC went to the right address, and it looks like the change went to a different address.  On my Trezor, the account shows the right amount (35 mBTC), but I can't find that change address anywhere.  Where is it?  How do I keep track of exactly which addresses have what amounts of BTC?  Or am I not supposed to?

Also, is there a tutorial anywhere on how to interpret the BIP32 Path: m/44'/0'/0'/0/1 data?

Thanks

This path is again specified in BIP44:
https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0044.mediawiki#Path_levels

You can enumerate your change addresses with bip32.org securely (unlike the proposed Wallet32).

it's best practice to not reuse addresses. It's not something you should be afraid of. Using separate change address chain that you cannot enumerate in the wallet software just gives you more security. You can still enumerate them if you wanted, byt mytrezor web wallet tries to be lightweight and don't give you such advanced features. It's up to a different wallet software that can give you all that when they support Trezor.

[dexX7]

I took a very first glimpse at the Py library and firmware and for once, it's pretty cool that the device can be used to sign messages, too. This seems to work quite well.

I saw many tests related to standard pay-to-pubkey-hash transactions and one that involved P2SH. I was actually looking for something that might be used to push raw transactions, but I assume that's currently not yet doable?

[AussieHash]

Great news!

I have successfully wiped, initialised, wiped and restored Trezor from the command line all without needing myTrezor.com on Mac OSX 10.8.5

I installed the OSX Command Line Tools, Brew, Python, git, Cython, python-trezor, (and strangely I also needed to install the english.txt mnemonic wordlist)

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2d36lb/is_the_trezor_seed_entropy_truly_and_provably/cjmwoo4?context=3

[sipak]

Just testing my new Trezor to better understand it.  I sent myself 50 mBTC.  Then I sent 15 mBTC to another address in my Armory account.  On the blockchain, I can see that the 15 mBTC went to the right address, and it looks like the change went to a different address.  On my Trezor, the account shows the right amount (35 mBTC), but I can't find that change address anywhere.  Where is it?  How do I keep track of exactly which addresses have what amounts of BTC?  Or am I not supposed to?

Also, is there a tutorial anywhere on how to interpret the BIP32 Path: m/44'/0'/0'/0/1 data?

Thanks

Change address went to address at path m/44'/0'/0'/1/x, where x is the last free internal (change) address, see the second pitcure of Wallet32 https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bonsai.wallet32&hl=cs
The difference here, is that receiving addresses are shown while change addresses are hidden from user. This might change in the future, because it might confuse some users.

[BurtW]

You can enumerate your change addresses with bip32.org securely (unlike the proposed Wallet32).

FWIW I was not suggesting anyone actually use Wallet32 to determine the change addresses.  What I was saying is that Wallet32 (and probably other wallets) do show the changes addresses.  MyTrezor would just need to add another tab in order to show the changes addresses - like some other wallets do.

[Perlover]

> Wallet32 shows you the change addresses also.  If you want this feature just send a feature request to them.
I think there better to use BTCReceive from same author
As i know for Wallet32 you need to import there private seed (i don't have Wallet32 right now - may be i make mistake)
But BTCReceive undetstands xpub keys of accounts. The xpub keys of accounts can be found in mytrezor.com advanced options for each account.
But there bad news - BTCReceive now works only with one account and there no way to delete account Only uninstall + install again BTCReceive.
If you will want to import to Wallet32 you private key (seed) for viewing of change addresses so why you need the Trezor?

[gweedo]

It looks like mytrezor got fixed, but the transaction that was stuck in my wallet, did get sent and I already sent it from different wallet, so I am out a $100. UGH

I will be updating my negative trust rating feedback accordingly.

[BurtW]

> Wallet32 shows you the change addresses also.  If you want this feature just send a feature request to them.
I think there better to use BTCReceive from same author
As i know for Wallet32 you need to import there private seed (i don't have Wallet32 right now - may be i make mistake)
But BTCReceive undetstands xpub keys of accounts. The xpub keys of accounts can be found in mytrezor.com advanced options for each account.
But there bad news - BTCReceive now works only with one account and there no way to delete account Only uninstall + install again BTCReceive.
If you will want to import to Wallet32 you private key (seed) for viewing of change addresses so why you need the Trezor?

You did not read the post right above yours where I said:

FWIW I was not suggesting anyone actually use Wallet32 to determine the change addresses.  What I was saying is that Wallet32 (and probably other wallets) do show the changes addresses.  MyTrezor would just need to add another tab in order to show the changes addresses - like some other wallets do.

[kkurtmann]

It looks like mytrezor got fixed, but the transaction that was stuck in my wallet, did get sent and I already sent it from different wallet, so I am out a $100. UGH

I will be updating my negative trust rating feedback accordingly.

You don't know how to confirm a transaction on the blockchain?
Maybe you should learn before you use

[joshbtcmint]

Just testing my new Trezor to better understand it.  I sent myself 50 mBTC.  Then I sent 15 mBTC to another address in my Armory account.  On the blockchain, I can see that the 15 mBTC went to the right address, and it looks like the change went to a different address.  On my Trezor, the account shows the right amount (35 mBTC), but I can't find that change address anywhere.  Where is it?  How do I keep track of exactly which addresses have what amounts of BTC?  Or am I not supposed to?

Also, is there a tutorial anywhere on how to interpret the BIP32 Path: m/44'/0'/0'/0/1 data?

Thanks

I don't really ever keep track of any loose change addresses...just the addresses that hold the main amount of BTC.  I think that is one of the whole points of the trezor though, so you don't have to keep track of any addresses, they are all just sitting there conveniently on the web browser when you go to mytrezor.com

This guy get's it!

ON a happier note I received my second white trezor today, pleased to report the screen lamination issue is not present here, the screen seems brighter as well, I really think I just got one out of a bad batch on my first order, its completely night and day quality wise.

Second note, how a wallet handles change addresses, is built into the wallet architecture, it doesn't show them to you, as it's akin to having a change tray that counts when you throw a penny into it.....who cares, its there right?!?! That is all that matters.

Do a watch only wallet, on a single address, and resend bulks of funds to said address, anonymity lost my bum, where are Roger Ver's bitcoin? Anyone......Anyone.....Bueller?


Lastly, I do want a black trezor, like....yesterday. The white picks up every little smudge and smidge.

[BurtW]

After much trial and error I finally figured out how to use http://bip32.org to verify the Bitcoin addresses being displayed at https://mytrezor.com against a second system (to make sure they are not being spoofed).

I thought I would post my findings here in case anyone else is struggling with this:

1) Open up https://mytrezor.com and copy the xpub key you want to verify against the output of the http://bip32.org web site.  Your xpub key(s) can be found under the advanced details on the main/home page for your wallet.

2) Open up the http://bip32.org web site and go to the second tab "BIP32 key".

3) Paste the xpub key into the BIP32 Extended Key box.

4) In the key info notice the depth number.  It should be 3.  Evidently this means that the key already includes the first three levels m/44'/0'/0' so you only need to add pathing past that point (see the next steps below).

5) In the Derivation Path drop down select "custom".

6) In the Custom Path box type m/0/0

Down at the bottom of the screen you should see a Bitcoin address.  It should match the first Bitcoin address from the Trezor!

7) Change the Custom Path box to m/0/1 and on the myTrezor press "More Please" and you should see that your second address matches, etc.

Once you get this far, if you want to know the change addresses used by your Tezor, change the Custom Path box to m/1/0, m/1/1, m/1/2, etc. and this will display the change addresses.

[dnaleor]

I'll buy a spare black one as a backup I think.

[anarchoatheist]

I have a missing transaction. Here is what I did right before:

 I installed the btcreceive app onto my android. I then loaded the xpub code into the btcreceive app. Then I proceeded to test the app sending multiple transactions to the keys generated on the app. Then I opened the account tab on btcreceive and tried sending to some of the addresses there. All was well until I tried one of the addresses further down on the list in the account tab. I tried the m/0/44 address. I sent a total of 0.01btc. this transaction is showing up in the btcreceive app, but it doesnt show up on the mytrezor.com transaction list. So I tried to send another small amount from another wallet to this address again and this transaction is showing up. Both transactions are showing up on blockchain.info.
https://blockchain.info/address/1CVHky4FZ4V5TN7DZSgaqwszRWg7iPrQfc. This has got me a little worried. What would happen if i had sent a larger amount of bitcoin? Would it be lost forever?

[keithers]

I'll buy a spare black one as a backup I think.

That is what I think I am going to do.   If I somehow lose or break mine, or have some sort of a hardware failure, i don't want to have to order another one and then wait all that time to get up and running again.   I know that I can load my seed into a different wallet, but still, I would feel more comfortable having another trezor on deck in case I run into any issues.

[gweedo]

It looks like mytrezor got fixed, but the transaction that was stuck in my wallet, did get sent and I already sent it from different wallet, so I am out a $100. UGH

I will be updating my negative trust rating feedback accordingly.

You don't know how to confirm a transaction on the blockchain?
Maybe you should learn before you use

Yes I can't confirm a transaction on the blockchain, when A) you don't have the TXID and B) it is group address that doesn't do refunds.

$100 is not a big deal to me, but still it is wasted money.

[BurtW]

The answer you seek is just a few posts back:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122438.msg8537393#msg8537393

1) Your coins are not lost
2) If you have a gap of more than 20 unused addresses your balance will not be correct until you use some of the unused addresses
3) Since the balance calculating algorithm stops after it sees 20 unused addresses all you need to do is send some coins to the unused addresses between your last properly summed address and the "lost" one in such a way as to make sure there are not more than 19 unused addresses between any two addresses that contain BTC

I have a missing transaction. Here is what I did right before:

 I installed the btcreceive app onto my android. I then loaded the xpub code into the btcreceive app. Then I proceeded to test the app sending multiple transactions to the keys generated on the app. Then I opened the account tab on btcreceive and tried sending to some of the addresses there. All was well until I tried one of the addresses further down on the list in the account tab. I tried the m/0/44 address. I sent a total of 0.01btc. this transaction is showing up in the btcreceive app, but it doesnt show up on the mytrezor.com transaction list. So I tried to send another small amount from another wallet to this address again and this transaction is showing up. Both transactions are showing up on blockchain.info.
https://blockchain.info/address/1CVHky4FZ4V5TN7DZSgaqwszRWg7iPrQfc. This has got me a little worried. What would happen if i had sent a larger amount of bitcoin? Would it be lost forever?

[anarchoatheist]

The answer you seek is just a few posts back:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122438.msg8537393#msg8537393

1) Your coins are not lost
2) If you have a gap of more than 20 unused addresses your balance will not be correct until you use some of the unused addresses
3) Since the balance calculating algorithm stops after it sees 20 unused addresses all you need to do is send some coins to the unused addresses between your last properly summed address and the "lost" one in such a was as to make sure there are not more than 19 unused addresses between any two addresses that contain BTC

I have a missing transaction. Here is what I did right before:

 I installed the btcreceive app onto my android. I then loaded the xpub code into the btcreceive app. Then I proceeded to test the app sending multiple transactions to the keys generated on the app. Then I opened the account tab on btcreceive and tried sending to some of the addresses there. All was well until I tried one of the addresses further down on the list in the account tab. I tried the m/0/44 address. I sent a total of 0.01btc. this transaction is showing up in the btcreceive app, but it doesnt show up on the mytrezor.com transaction list. So I tried to send another small amount from another wallet to this address again and this transaction is showing up. Both transactions are showing up on blockchain.info.
https://blockchain.info/address/1CVHky4FZ4V5TN7DZSgaqwszRWg7iPrQfc. This has got me a little worried. What would happen if i had sent a larger amount of bitcoin? Would it be lost forever?

I did actually receive a transaction with that address. One thing that I also noticed. when I go to the receive tab on mytrezor.com the addresses that are now available are only m/0/45 and up. If I want to send to the previous addresses, I would have to use btcreceive or bip32.org to generate the earlier addresses. I will try to send some small amounts to the earlier addresses to see if my lost transaction catches up.

[BurtW]

On myTrezor can you just look at your "used addresses"

Click Account -> Receive -> find and click the "Show used" link

[anarchoatheist]

On myTrezor can you just look at your "used addresses"

Click Account -> Receive -> find and click the "Show used" link

yeah and this is what it says:

1CVHky4FZ4V5TN7DZSgaqwszRWg7iPrQfc (0.0001 BTC)

[anarchoatheist]

The answer you seek is just a few posts back:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=122438.msg8537393#msg8537393

1) Your coins are not lost
2) If you have a gap of more than 20 unused addresses your balance will not be correct until you use some of the unused addresses
3) Since the balance calculating algorithm stops after it sees 20 unused addresses all you need to do is send some coins to the unused addresses between your last properly summed address and the "lost" one in such a way as to make sure there are not more than 19 unused addresses between any two addresses that contain BTC

I have a missing transaction. Here is what I did right before:

 I installed the btcreceive app onto my android. I then loaded the xpub code into the btcreceive app. Then I proceeded to test the app sending multiple transactions to the keys generated on the app. Then I opened the account tab on btcreceive and tried sending to some of the addresses there. All was well until I tried one of the addresses further down on the list in the account tab. I tried the m/0/44 address. I sent a total of 0.01btc. this transaction is showing up in the btcreceive app, but it doesnt show up on the mytrezor.com transaction list. So I tried to send another small amount from another wallet to this address again and this transaction is showing up. Both transactions are showing up on blockchain.info.
https://blockchain.info/address/1CVHky4FZ4V5TN7DZSgaqwszRWg7iPrQfc. This has got me a little worried. What would happen if i had sent a larger amount of bitcoin? Would it be lost forever?

Ok I tested out your theory. I went back and used up every single address before m/0/44. My trezor is still showing the incorrect balance by 0.01btc. The balance on BTCReceive is showing correctly. So I'm guessing the only way to recover this lost btc would be to restore my seed to wallet32 app then send it somewhere else? I hope this is not the case.