Pirate PMs

[BadBear]

please dont publish my one pm to pirateat40.
it does not contain any hints to find him - its just what i have "invested" with him and i want to keep that information private

thanks

That's exactly what we want to avoid.

sorry i am confused.
what exactly do you want to avoid?

do you want to avoid publishing "pirate investment" information? - and yes: this would include sec.

or do you want to avoid HIDING investment information so the sec can get the most accurate data?

i really wish i had never send that pm...

You should be wishing you never got involved with Pirate  .

Theymos wants to avoid releasing unimportant third party information like who had how much invested, that's nobody else's business and won't help anyone. Along with email addresses, account information, other private information, etc.
That kind of stuff would be removed before publicly releasing the pm's.

None of this has anything to do with the SEC though, if they want information or plan to use the pms they won't accept internet redacted versions, they will get a subpoena, get what they want and decide for themselves what's important. So if you are worried about the SEC for whatever reason, there's really nothing we can do for you. 

[flower1024]

You should be wishing you never got involved with Pirate  .

Theymos wants to avoid releasing unimportant third party information like who had how much invested, that's nobody else's business and won't help anyone. Along with email addresses, account information, other private information, etc.
That kind of stuff would be removed before publicly releasing the pm's.

None of this has anything to do with the SEC though, if they want information or plan to use the pms they won't accept internet redacted versions, they will get a subpoena, get what they want and decide for themselves what's important. So if you are worried about the SEC for whatever reason, there's really nothing we can do for you. 

thanks

[BCB]

Any information provided to the SEC by a "third party" would not be admissible in their investigation or any subsequent civil or criminal prosecution of Trendon Shavors.

The SEC (Securities and Exchange Comnmission)  is a United States CIVIL authority (not Criminal) and is currently conducting an "investigation" in to "Bitcoin Securities Offerings."    If this investigation does not gather enough relevant information, they may not be able to more forward to a civil suit.

If you did nothing wrong I would strongly encourage anyone who lost money in  a Trendon Shavors related Bitcoin Investment to contact the US SEC directly, 

REGARDLESS OF THE COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU LIVE.


Philip Moustakis
Senior Attorney
Division of Enforcement
United States Securities & Exchange Commission
3 World Financial Center, Suite 400
New York, NY 10281-1022
(212) 336-0542
moustakisp@sec.gov
 

[molecular]

Thanks for your constructive input, BCB

My opinion has hardened: Theymos should not release the PMs at all.

[casascius]

Any information provided to the SEC by a "third party" would not be admissible in their investigation or any subsequent civil or criminal prosecution of Trendon Shavors.

Are you sure?  That sounds a lot like the "hearsay" rule, which only applies to person A saying they heard person B saying something, not person A turning over data created by person B and managed on person A's servers.  Otherwise, any investigation in the world that relies on information from anybody anywhere would grind to a halt because nothing would be admissible other than a suspect's own confession.

[repentance]

Any information provided to the SEC by a "third party" would not be admissible in their investigation or any subsequent civil or criminal prosecution of Trendon Shavors.

Are you sure?  That sounds a lot like the "hearsay" rule, which only applies to person A saying they heard person B saying something, not person A turning over data created by person B and managed on person A's servers.  Otherwise, any investigation in the world that relies on information from anybody anywhere would grind to a halt because nothing would be admissible other than a suspect's own confession.

You can testify to something which you heard yourself.  There are circumstances in which me saying that I heard person B say something would definitely be admissible.  The point on which admissibility turns is often directness of knowledge.  B telling me that C said something would make my knowledge of C's words indirect - I can't testify to what C actually said.  The raw PMs would not be "heresay" as proper forensic investigation could establish whether they'd been altered, their origin, etc. 

I don't have any exposure in this but if I did and my PMs contained useful information, I could forward those to the SEC but they'd want access to the forum database in order to establish the validity of those PMs and need that access for forensic investigation.  Inadmissible evidence can be useful if there's another means to corroborate it and it can provide new leads to investigators.

It sounds a bit like theymos wants someone to issue a subpoena for pirate's PMs but he's not willing to let investigators know himself that the forum database holds over 4000 pirate-related PMs.  It may even contain more because if others were complicit with pirate, PMs between accomplices may be just as important in establishing that as communications with pirate.

[casascius]

It sounds a bit like theymos wants someone to issue a subpoena for pirate's PMs

This is a reasonable desire, because then no one can hold him responsible for him appointing himself the right to violate their claimed expectation of privacy.

[repentance]

It sounds a bit like theymos wants someone to issue a subpoena for pirate's PMs

This is a reasonable desire, because then no one can hold him responsible for him appointing himself the right to violate their claimed expectation of privacy.

There is nothing to stop theymos contacting the SEC (or law enforcement) and letting them know that the PMs exist and that he will hand them over in response to an appropriate legal request.  My perception is that he wants somebody else to make investigators aware of the existence of the PMs.

The reality is that users who theymos (or anyone else "sanitising" PMs for public release) regards as "innocent" might not be regarded as innocent by investigators.  The reverse is also true.  Parties who theymos regards as "deserving" of exposure might not be regarded as "guilty"/complicit by investigators.  Investigators need access to data which hasn't been filtered in line with someone else's opinion of its relevance.

As stated previously, I'm as curious as everyone else about what was being said behind the scenes.  I also recognise that while making the PMs public might satisfy that curiosity somewhat (it will likely raise as many questions as it answers), only giving the PMs to investigators in unredacted form is likely to help their investigation in any way and the possibility that the investigation will not result in any action against pirate even if those PMs are handed over is a real one.

[makomk]

-Ask the users who sent and received PM from pirate if they consent to release that information.

Based on past form, Pirate would probably manage to intimidate almost everyone who's invested with him into not allowing their PMs to be released.

[myrkul]

-Ask the users who sent and received PM from pirate if they consent to release that information.

Based on past form, Pirate would probably manage to intimidate almost everyone who's invested with him into not allowing their PMs to be released.

I hereby authorize Theymos to release any and all PMs I have with Pirate.

[helloworld]

-Ask the users who sent and received PM from pirate if they consent to release that information.

Based on past form, Pirate would probably manage to intimidate almost everyone who's invested with him into not allowing their PMs to be released.

I hereby authorize Theymos to release any and all PMs I have with Pirate.

If that's your desire, then why not just post some of them yourself?

[myrkul]

-Ask the users who sent and received PM from pirate if they consent to release that information.

Based on past form, Pirate would probably manage to intimidate almost everyone who's invested with him into not allowing their PMs to be released.

I hereby authorize Theymos to release any and all PMs I have with Pirate.

If that's your desire, then why not just post some of them yourself?

Primarily because there aren't any. 

[CharlieContent]

- I don't know if BCB has any interest in this, but I think that publishing the PMs with the sensitive info of innocent people removed (names, exact BTC amounts, addresses, passwords, etc.) would be of great historical interest/value. This would be, for example, a great resource for any academic research of Ponzi schemes.

If you decide to do this, hit me up for a sizable ($500+) donation. I'd personally love to read them and I'm sure lots of others would too.

The info would have to be released publicly and have clear rules for redactions (I.E. only names, amounts, addresses and passwords should be redacted and all other data released with no exceptions)

Thanks.

[mufa23]

Primarily because there aren't any. 

[Raize]

Was a decision ever made on this?

[molecular]

Was a decision ever made on this?

the PMs have been bought and are being resold on the blackmarket^TM:
to receive a copy you have to put up BTC 100 and escrow another 1000 that will be kept should you leak your watermarked copies to the public or to anyone else before Dec 31st 2013.
Deletion of posts is 30 BTC per post or 100 BTC for all correspondence with a specific user.

(this is a joke)

[BCB]

Nice! 

[molecular]

Nice! 

not sure wether I should increase the font size of "(this is a joke)". But knowing you a bit I guess it's not necessary.

[theymos]

Was a decision ever made on this?

BCB decided that he didn't want to do it anymore.

I might collect donations to have moderators go through them, but I haven't decided yet.

[BCB]

I had hoped to find corroborating evidence of some information that had already been provide to me such as:

The location of the several safe deposit boxes Trendon Shavers controls and confirmation of the items I was told they contained.

Information on who may be receiving BTC from Trendon Shavers and funding him with cash payment

The name or info on any credentials or identity that Trendon Shavers may have assumed.

The location Trendon Shavers may stopped at to purchase and/or hide assets.

The name of any paramours Trendon Shavers may have had during his time in Dallas

And information that may verify his current location and how long he plans to remain in this location.


However when the many issues were brought up in this  thread, I withdrew my offer to assist in reviewing the PM's  as there is already enough FUD.

Believe what you may, I am not a Attorney.  I am not an investigator.  I do not work for the SEC.

I am just a member of this community who is publicly collecting information on another scammer.