Kingcoin: A delightfully simple spin-the-wheel game (that's provably fair)

[dooglus]

Hi, dooglus-- I sent 1 BTC to 146aSkxyXWM4U7jPnsXhVHd1RfohnVDhPx. Enjoy!

Received, thanks.

I played 10 games at 0.1 BTC each:



So I kept only 0.6 BTC.  Well less than expected.

I asked to withdraw 0.6 BTC, and it appeared to let me, but some seems to be gotten lost in transaction:

[dooglus]

Also, I ran my simulator on 1 million plays, and show the average payout over each 10k plays.  It seems to suggest the true house edge is more like 4.25%:

Code:

average return over   10000 spins is 0.982250
average return over   20000 spins is 0.971225; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960200
average return over   30000 spins is 0.972617; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.975400
average return over   40000 spins is 0.967612; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952600
average return over   50000 spins is 0.968010; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.969600
average return over   60000 spins is 0.965833; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.954950
average return over   70000 spins is 0.963571; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950000
average return over   80000 spins is 0.960931; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.942450
average return over   90000 spins is 0.960939; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961000
average return over  100000 spins is 0.960825; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959800
average return over  110000 spins is 0.959377; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944900
average return over  120000 spins is 0.958413; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947800
average return over  130000 spins is 0.958342; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957500
average return over  140000 spins is 0.959057; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.968350
average return over  150000 spins is 0.958917; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956950
average return over  160000 spins is 0.959762; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.972450
average return over  170000 spins is 0.960424; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971000
average return over  180000 spins is 0.960592; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963450
average return over  190000 spins is 0.960305; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.955150
average return over  200000 spins is 0.959715; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948500
average return over  210000 spins is 0.960100; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967800
average return over  220000 spins is 0.960327; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.965100
average return over  230000 spins is 0.960565; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.965800
average return over  240000 spins is 0.960127; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950050
average return over  250000 spins is 0.959996; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956850
average return over  260000 spins is 0.959887; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957150
average return over  270000 spins is 0.959263; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.943050
average return over  280000 spins is 0.959348; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961650
average return over  290000 spins is 0.959778; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971800
average return over  300000 spins is 0.959428; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.949300
average return over  310000 spins is 0.959876; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.973300
average return over  320000 spins is 0.959642; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952400
average return over  330000 spins is 0.959198; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.945000
average return over  340000 spins is 0.959329; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963650
average return over  350000 spins is 0.959156; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953250
average return over  360000 spins is 0.958596; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.939000
average return over  370000 spins is 0.958392; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951050
average return over  380000 spins is 0.958522; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963350
average return over  390000 spins is 0.958156; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944250
average return over  400000 spins is 0.957544; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.933650
average return over  410000 spins is 0.957546; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957650
average return over  420000 spins is 0.957874; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971300
average return over  430000 spins is 0.958094; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967350
average return over  440000 spins is 0.958113; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958900
average return over  450000 spins is 0.958157; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960100
average return over  460000 spins is 0.957914; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947000
average return over  470000 spins is 0.957834; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.954150
average return over  480000 spins is 0.957831; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957700
average return over  490000 spins is 0.957845; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958500
average return over  500000 spins is 0.958034; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967300
average return over  510000 spins is 0.958103; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961550
average return over  520000 spins is 0.957910; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948050
average return over  530000 spins is 0.958014; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963450
average return over  540000 spins is 0.958069; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960950
average return over  550000 spins is 0.958285; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.970000
average return over  560000 spins is 0.957993; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.941900
average return over  570000 spins is 0.957975; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956950
average return over  580000 spins is 0.958003; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959600
average return over  590000 spins is 0.958335; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.977600
average return over  600000 spins is 0.958202; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950400
average return over  610000 spins is 0.958202; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958150
average return over  620000 spins is 0.958641; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.985450
average return over  630000 spins is 0.958611; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956750
average return over  640000 spins is 0.958415; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.946050
average return over  650000 spins is 0.958482; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.962800
average return over  660000 spins is 0.958675; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971200
average return over  670000 spins is 0.958600; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953650
average return over  680000 spins is 0.958597; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958400
average return over  690000 spins is 0.958434; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947350
average return over  700000 spins is 0.958416; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957150
average return over  710000 spins is 0.958258; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947200
average return over  720000 spins is 0.958257; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958200
average return over  730000 spins is 0.958037; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.942200
average return over  740000 spins is 0.958268; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.975100
average return over  750000 spins is 0.958549; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.979400
average return over  760000 spins is 0.958555; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959000
average return over  770000 spins is 0.958670; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967400
average return over  780000 spins is 0.958659; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957800
average return over  790000 spins is 0.958528; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948300
average return over  800000 spins is 0.958378; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.946550
average return over  810000 spins is 0.958323; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953900
average return over  820000 spins is 0.958302; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956650
average return over  830000 spins is 0.958460; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971400
average return over  840000 spins is 0.958351; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.949300
average return over  850000 spins is 0.958142; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.940600
average return over  860000 spins is 0.957822; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.930600
average return over  870000 spins is 0.957674; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944950
average return over  880000 spins is 0.957515; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.943700
average return over  890000 spins is 0.957448; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951500
average return over  900000 spins is 0.957381; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951450
average return over  910000 spins is 0.957069; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.929000
average return over  920000 spins is 0.957115; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961300
average return over  930000 spins is 0.957189; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.964000
average return over  940000 spins is 0.957286; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.966300
average return over  950000 spins is 0.957279; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956600
average return over  960000 spins is 0.957481; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.976650
average return over  970000 spins is 0.957582; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967300
average return over  980000 spins is 0.957528; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952300
average return over  990000 spins is 0.957527; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957450
average return over 1000000 spins is 0.957537; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958500

[coolidgecoin]

Hi, dooglus-- I sent 1 BTC to 146aSkxyXWM4U7jPnsXhVHd1RfohnVDhPx. Enjoy!

Received, thanks.

I played 10 games at 0.1 BTC each:

https://i.imgur.com/07LyB.png

So I kept only 0.6 BTC.  Well less than expected.

I asked to withdraw 0.6 BTC, and it appeared to let me, but some seems to be gotten lost in transaction:

https://i.imgur.com/Q8R7j.png

Yep, I include a very small transaction fee.

About taking only 0.6 BTC, looks like you just got unlucky.

Sanjay

[coolidgecoin]

Also, I ran my simulator on 1 million plays, and show the average payout over each 10k plays.  It seems to suggest the true house edge is more like 4.25%:

Code:

average return over   10000 spins is 0.982250
average return over   20000 spins is 0.971225; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960200
average return over   30000 spins is 0.972617; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.975400
average return over   40000 spins is 0.967612; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952600
average return over   50000 spins is 0.968010; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.969600
average return over   60000 spins is 0.965833; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.954950
average return over   70000 spins is 0.963571; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950000
average return over   80000 spins is 0.960931; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.942450
average return over   90000 spins is 0.960939; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961000
average return over  100000 spins is 0.960825; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959800
average return over  110000 spins is 0.959377; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944900
average return over  120000 spins is 0.958413; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947800
average return over  130000 spins is 0.958342; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957500
average return over  140000 spins is 0.959057; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.968350
average return over  150000 spins is 0.958917; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956950
average return over  160000 spins is 0.959762; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.972450
average return over  170000 spins is 0.960424; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971000
average return over  180000 spins is 0.960592; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963450
average return over  190000 spins is 0.960305; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.955150
average return over  200000 spins is 0.959715; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948500
average return over  210000 spins is 0.960100; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967800
average return over  220000 spins is 0.960327; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.965100
average return over  230000 spins is 0.960565; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.965800
average return over  240000 spins is 0.960127; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950050
average return over  250000 spins is 0.959996; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956850
average return over  260000 spins is 0.959887; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957150
average return over  270000 spins is 0.959263; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.943050
average return over  280000 spins is 0.959348; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961650
average return over  290000 spins is 0.959778; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971800
average return over  300000 spins is 0.959428; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.949300
average return over  310000 spins is 0.959876; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.973300
average return over  320000 spins is 0.959642; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952400
average return over  330000 spins is 0.959198; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.945000
average return over  340000 spins is 0.959329; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963650
average return over  350000 spins is 0.959156; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953250
average return over  360000 spins is 0.958596; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.939000
average return over  370000 spins is 0.958392; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951050
average return over  380000 spins is 0.958522; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963350
average return over  390000 spins is 0.958156; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944250
average return over  400000 spins is 0.957544; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.933650
average return over  410000 spins is 0.957546; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957650
average return over  420000 spins is 0.957874; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971300
average return over  430000 spins is 0.958094; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967350
average return over  440000 spins is 0.958113; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958900
average return over  450000 spins is 0.958157; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960100
average return over  460000 spins is 0.957914; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947000
average return over  470000 spins is 0.957834; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.954150
average return over  480000 spins is 0.957831; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957700
average return over  490000 spins is 0.957845; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958500
average return over  500000 spins is 0.958034; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967300
average return over  510000 spins is 0.958103; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961550
average return over  520000 spins is 0.957910; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948050
average return over  530000 spins is 0.958014; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.963450
average return over  540000 spins is 0.958069; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.960950
average return over  550000 spins is 0.958285; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.970000
average return over  560000 spins is 0.957993; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.941900
average return over  570000 spins is 0.957975; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956950
average return over  580000 spins is 0.958003; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959600
average return over  590000 spins is 0.958335; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.977600
average return over  600000 spins is 0.958202; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.950400
average return over  610000 spins is 0.958202; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958150
average return over  620000 spins is 0.958641; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.985450
average return over  630000 spins is 0.958611; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956750
average return over  640000 spins is 0.958415; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.946050
average return over  650000 spins is 0.958482; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.962800
average return over  660000 spins is 0.958675; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971200
average return over  670000 spins is 0.958600; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953650
average return over  680000 spins is 0.958597; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958400
average return over  690000 spins is 0.958434; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947350
average return over  700000 spins is 0.958416; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957150
average return over  710000 spins is 0.958258; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.947200
average return over  720000 spins is 0.958257; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958200
average return over  730000 spins is 0.958037; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.942200
average return over  740000 spins is 0.958268; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.975100
average return over  750000 spins is 0.958549; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.979400
average return over  760000 spins is 0.958555; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.959000
average return over  770000 spins is 0.958670; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967400
average return over  780000 spins is 0.958659; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957800
average return over  790000 spins is 0.958528; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.948300
average return over  800000 spins is 0.958378; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.946550
average return over  810000 spins is 0.958323; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.953900
average return over  820000 spins is 0.958302; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956650
average return over  830000 spins is 0.958460; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.971400
average return over  840000 spins is 0.958351; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.949300
average return over  850000 spins is 0.958142; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.940600
average return over  860000 spins is 0.957822; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.930600
average return over  870000 spins is 0.957674; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.944950
average return over  880000 spins is 0.957515; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.943700
average return over  890000 spins is 0.957448; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951500
average return over  900000 spins is 0.957381; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.951450
average return over  910000 spins is 0.957069; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.929000
average return over  920000 spins is 0.957115; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.961300
average return over  930000 spins is 0.957189; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.964000
average return over  940000 spins is 0.957286; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.966300
average return over  950000 spins is 0.957279; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.956600
average return over  960000 spins is 0.957481; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.976650
average return over  970000 spins is 0.957582; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.967300
average return over  980000 spins is 0.957528; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.952300
average return over  990000 spins is 0.957527; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.957450
average return over 1000000 spins is 0.957537; average return over last 10000 spins is 0.958500

Nice analysis! I do plan on lowering the house edge. 4% seems too high relative to other games. I will post to this thread when completed. I might add a special slice on the wheel that is a mega-jackpot (10x or 20x). That will give me an easy parameter to tweak in order to adjust the expected value.

Sanjay

[dooglus]

I might add a special slice on the wheel that is a mega-jackpot (10x or 20x). That will give me an easy parameter to tweak in order to adjust the expected value.

That will increase your variance significantly I think, and so also increase your 'risk of ruin'.

If you're thinking of tinkering with the existing payouts, you can quickly calculate the return to player percentage using:

Code:

>>> 1.5*13.23 + 2*11.88 + 2.5*12.26 + 3*7.21
95.885

and just changing the 1.5, 2, 2.5, and 3 accordingly.

For instance, changing the 3x to 3.5x gives:

Code:

>>> 1.5*13.23 + 2*11.88 + 2.5*12.26 + 3.5*7.21
99.49

Edit: notice that the 2.5x payout happens slightly more often than the 2x payout.  Most games reserve the bigger payouts for rarer events. 

[jjustinn]

I just lost .5 playing this game.

It was a combination of freeze outs and delays clicking New Game. If you click it twice too fast it'll steal your bet.


=(

[coolidgecoin]

I just lost .5 playing this game.

It was a combination of freeze outs and delays clicking New Game. If you click it twice too fast it'll steal your bet.


=(

Hi, jjustinn--

First off, I am truly sorry you had trouble with the game. I've refunded your account for the full 0.5 BTC. In addition, I've credited you 0.1 BTC for your troubles. Good luck...hope you win!

In the game log, I see only one game where your game didn't complete possibly due to a slow connection. The other games show a legitimate win or loss.

I haven't been able to reproduce the errors you experienced. Are you on a very slow connection?

Anyway, I've refunded your account with 0.5 BTC (plus 0.1 BTC to aplogize). Please try on a reliable connection and let me know how it goes. On my end, I will simulate a slow connection and add some checks to try and prevent this in the future.

I'm really sorry you had a bad experience and hope you give it another shot.

Thanks,
Sanjay

[Stephen Gornick]

This is with Chrome browser on Android.  This occurs the same under both a mobile device as well as with a tablet (Nexus 7)

Right now the site is a black hole when using my Android mobile (with Chrome).   The press on the spin button does do a spin and then the spin button reappears.  But the second press causes the button to disappear but no spin occurs.  There is no recovery as far as I could tell.  This occurs when playing for free as well as if I've signed in and have placed an actual wager (and thus the black hole, you will lose your wager).    Something should be done to either disable the game when on a mobile or the game should function on a mobile as well.

My mobile (LG Optimus Elite) is running Android v2.3.7.   Incidentally, this same behavior does not occur on a tablet (Nexus 7) running Android v4.2.

[coolidgecoin]

This is with Chrome browser on Android.  This occurs the same under both a mobile device as well as with a tablet (Nexus 7)

Right now the site is a black hole when using my Android mobile (with Chrome).   The press on the spin button does do a spin and then the spin button reappears.  But the second press causes the button to disappear but no spin occurs.  There is no recovery as far as I could tell.  This occurs when playing for free as well as if I've signed in and have placed an actual wager (and thus the black hole, you will lose your wager).    Something should be done to either disable the game when on a mobile or the game should function on a mobile as well.

My mobile (LG Optimus Elite) is running Android v2.3.7.   Incidentally, this same behavior does not occur on a tablet (Nexus 7) running Android v4.2.

I'll put up a "doesn't work on mobile" redirect of some sort asap. I wanted to get a basic version out there to see what the response was (test the waters) before investing in other platforms. But yes, I should at least have a redirect. Sorry for the poor experience.

Sanjay

[jjustinn]

Thanks for the refund.

Tried on a faster connection and had less issues, plus I was more careful not to try and play too fast.

[jjustinn]

I think it could be fun if you did a type of freeroll thing. Make an account and if you get up to 50 (or however many) you get .1 chips to play with.

If you drop to -50 (or however many) it'll bump you back to zero.

This could keep people playing on the site longer and make them more likely to invest actual chips.

[coolidgecoin]

Updates to Kingcoin

November 25, 2012
Some game parameters have changed to benefit the player.

• The expected value of Kingcoin has increased to be competitive with other games. It is now approximately 0.984.
• Game parameters are as follows: Black slice is 16% of the wheel (used to be 15%), King slice is 1.3% of the wheel (used to not exist), and other slices are a minimum of 15% of the wheel (used to be 10%).
• The maximum number of spins per game is now 5.
• Each game is logged in the database with more details (in case I have to process refunds)

[dooglus]

Updates to Kingcoin

November 25, 2012
Some game parameters have changed to benefit the player.

• The expected value of Kingcoin has increased to be competitive with other games. It is now approximately 0.984.
• Game parameters are as follows: Black slice is 16% of the wheel (used to be 15%), King slice is 1.3% of the wheel (used to not exist), and other slices are a minimum of 15% of the wheel (used to be 10%).
• The maximum number of spins per game is now 5.
• Each game is logged in the database with more details (in case I have to process refunds)

Nice changes. 

I just played for quite a long time and was up most of the time.  Only playing for play money, but it does seem like the house edge has got smaller.

At one point I got bored and decided to bet the whole lot on a single spin.  It told me the max bet was 2 chips, but then I couldn't figure out how to spin after that.  I can edit my bet size, but the spin button has vanished:

[dooglus]

I wonder why the king slice is yellow.  Wouldn't it be better to make it some colour that's different than all the other slices?

[coolidgecoin]

I wonder why the king slice is yellow.  Wouldn't it be better to make it some colour that's different than all the other slices?

https://i.imgur.com/A3uwO.png

Looks to me like you're just showing off that you hit the King slice. 

No, really--thanks. Good feedback. I was going for the King slice to look like "gold," but you're right; it looks too close to yellow. I changed it to purple.

I've fixed the "disappearing button" issue.

Thanks again, dooglus!

Sanjay

[Stephen Gornick]

• The expected value of Kingcoin has increased to be competitive with other games. It is now approximately 0.984.

That's excellent!

• Each game is logged in the database with more details (in case I have to process refunds)

Is that no longer publicly visible? (at least the last 100 plays like was available previously)?

I suppose that isn't really useful as I cannot verify that the plays that weren't mine were actually for other players, so it provides really no value for verification but it was interesting to see someone else's string of luck giving me hope that maybe, just maybe, the next string like that will be mine. :-)

[Edit: History is still there.  I'm not sure how I didn't see it before.
 - http://kingco.in/history.php ]

[dooglus]

Looks to me like you're just showing off that you hit the King slice. 

I've fixed the "disappearing button" issue.

Yeah, I was just showing off.  Not only did I hit the king slice, but I hit it on my first game while playing for maximum stake...

As for the disappearing button, here's another one that needs fixing: when I run out of funds, the button vanishes:

[coolidgecoin]

• The expected value of Kingcoin has increased to be competitive with other games. It is now approximately 0.984.

That's excellent!

• Each game is logged in the database with more details (in case I have to process refunds)

Is that no longer publicly visible? (at least the last 100 plays like was available previously)?

I suppose that isn't really useful as I cannot verify that the plays that weren't mine were actually for other players, so it provides really no value for verification but it was interesting to see someone else's string of luck giving me hope that maybe, just maybe, the next string like that will be mine. :-)

[Edit: History is still there.  I'm not sure how I didn't see it before.
 - http://kingco.in/history.php ]

Stephen, pardon me, I'm going to comment on your redacted (struck-out) text. I believe the 100-game history is indeed useful. Even though you cannot know that the games shown were actually played by other players, each individual player can be sure that his or her own games are correctly shown on that page. As such, if any player notices that his or her own games are not correctly shown, that player can raise a red flag and alert the community.

Sanjay

[dooglus]

Even though you cannot know that the games shown were actually played by other players, each individual player can be sure that his or her own games are correctly shown on that page. As such, if any player notices that his or her own games are not correctly shown, that player can raise a red flag and alert the community.

I think the point is that you could easily add in a bunch of imaginary winning games to make it look like on average the site is performing as advertised.  Nobody could prove that the added games weren't real.

It's still interesting to see the list of recent games.  I just don't think it really proves anything.  (Not like your provably fair hashes do).

[coolidgecoin]

Even though you cannot know that the games shown were actually played by other players, each individual player can be sure that his or her own games are correctly shown on that page. As such, if any player notices that his or her own games are not correctly shown, that player can raise a red flag and alert the community.

I think the point is that you could easily add in a bunch of imaginary winning games to make it look like on average the site is performing as advertised.  Nobody could prove that the added games weren't real.

It's still interesting to see the list of recent games.  I just don't think it really proves anything.  (Not like your provably fair hashes do).

Ah, I see. Yep, you're right, I could be making up games in the log to make it look like people are winning (I'm not!).

Sanjay