Bitcoin + GPS + Drones + Dead Drops / Kidnapping

[Hyena]

Sooner or later criminals start using Bitcoin. When that happens, it is very possible that legal enforcements can't do anything about certain kinds of crimes (see ransomware, for example).

I have spawned this thread to start fighting these new kinds of crimes before they manifest in our everyday life. Has anyone thought what could stop criminals from utilizing Bitcoin with such a great success? I wouldn't want to give up my Internet privacy / rights to visit the (deep) Internet anonymously. It's sort of a human right thing. However, I wouldn't want to become a victim to some new kind of international Bitcoin Mafia either. How to accomplish this? Is it even possible?

Perhaps it requires a total shift in the social paradigm. For example, instead of boasting about their wealth on the social media, people would start hiding their wealth and pretending to be poor so that criminals wouldn't target them.

Right now it is just too damn easy to blackmail almost anyone. Civilians are already attaching handguns to their personal drones for fun. Perhaps soon those armed drones start mugging pedestrians in the dark alleys, demanding bitcoins. And with the help of GPS, kidnappers would never have to actually meet their victim in real life. They would just announce the coordinates of the kidnapped child after having received the requested amount of bitcoins.

[ebliever]

Thanks for starting this. I have my own "impending nightmare" scenario that this thread is perfect for discussion.
********************************************

It's an ordinary night in 2025, in the home of an upscale family in middle America. The wife's cell phone rings.

"Hi, Jane here..."

"Lady, you got a 2023 Mercedes Z-class, right? License plate 847 GHM. You heard those stories in the news about the hacking right?

"Uhh, right - "

"Lady, listen up carefully. We got you hacked. We can take over your car's semi-autonomous driving controls whenever we want. So if you want to stay out of the ditch tomorrow, you need to send us $500 in bitcoin, right away. Nothing personal. I'll text you the bitcoin address in a minute. Remember, stay safe - and don't forget that guy who's fighting a lawsuit because he didn't pay and his car hit that kid."

"Wait, uhh"

"Tonight lady. Deadline is midnight." *CLICK*

(Distressed, the lady of the house begins pulling up her bitcoin account as the text comes through, preparing to pay. Husband walks in.)

"Honey, who was that?"

"Hackers."

"Oh no. You're not going to pay them, are you??"

"What choice do we have? You've seen the news stories. Even if 90% of them are scammers who are lying, we can't take the risk. You've seen the stories. And remember what happened to Mandy and John?"

"I know, I know... it's just.... it's the 3rd time this year."
********************************************

With the rapid adoption of semi-autonomous driving, I see this scenario being very likely.  (I'm a supplier engineer directly involved with the GM Super Cruise semi-autonomous car going on sale next year, and the industry is rushing headlong down this path.) The barriers to entry for the criminals is very low - all it will take are a few news stories to get the ball rolling, and then every half-wit can jump in and claim to be hacking cars whether they have the skills or not. With low risk of getting caught, why wouldn't criminals try this?

A big part of the answer is going to have to be advanced and robust security in the vehicles themselves. I'm not satisfied with the state of things with vehicles, not by a long shot. But any way to deal with it on the payments side would also be helpful. I realize this conflicts badly with the goal of privacy with bitcoin, but the problem isn't going to go away just by wishing it would.

[maokoto]

I guess someone will came up with some way to track Bitcoin transactions in some way. However, it does not happen, perhaps tracking money should be renounced as a way to catch criminals. Not all are caught because they used marked money.

[ronald98]

I don't think it would be possible to do anything about Bitcoin payments without draconian new Bitcoin transaction laws in every country worldwide. If they forced all exchanges and mixers worldwide to give details of any transactions their government requests it could stop crimes, if the governments shared their data. However I don't think they would all cooperate to that extent when some countries are at war with each other, and I don't think they would all agree to pass the same laws.

[gentlemand]

In the West at least proper kidnapping (ie strangers grabbing a juicy target for pure money) is virtually extinct as a crime. For some reason Law Enforcement goes insane for it. It's definitely a healthy industry elsewhere in the world.

We've no idea what this tidal wave of technology will bring us but there's no doubting there'll be the odd unpleasant sideline developed by nefarious folks. I think plenty of criminals forget the fiat element though. You may end up with thousands of coins, turning them into cash if you have that need will become ever trickier under the radar. If and when the need for conversion is gone then things may get heavier.

[christycalhoun]

If I felt that I was a target for a kidnapping, I would wear an implantable gps device and give access to my friends, family and colleagues.

[Hyena]

If I felt that I was a target for a kidnapping, I would wear an implantable gps device and give access to my friends, family and colleagues.

that's probably how the US will push/justify the RFID chip on every human being.

I think plenty of criminals forget the fiat element though. You may end up with thousands of coins, turning them into cash if you have that need will become ever trickier under the radar. If and when the need for conversion is gone then things may get heavier.

If there is no need for conversion then this won't be an issue. If there is a need for conversion then think of the following scenario.

1. find a billionaire
2. steal his cat
3. announce that you will give them the GPS coordinates when 1 BTC reaches 100 000$ on all major exchanges.
4. the billionaire will move the market
5. all bitcoin sellers will become criminals during that period of time
6. the real criminal will sell a couple of hundred of bitcoins and lives happily ever after

the latter is possible during the times when bitcoin has a market cap smaller than the billionaire's wallet

[ronald98]

There was a company trying to start up with new forensic blockchain analysis techniques that might be able to trace mixed coins. I'm not sure if they had anything that worked yet, and I can't remember the name of the company, but it may have been Coinalytics. There was a thread here with a link to some new forensics technology but I can't find it now. There might be something buried in the Coinalytics website that could help track where ransom payment coins go to.

http://coinalytics.co/

[Hyena]

There was a company trying to start up with new forensic blockchain analysis techniques that might be able to trace mixed coins. I'm not sure if they had anything that worked yet, and I can't remember the name of the company, but it may have been Coinalytics. There was a thread here with a link to some new forensics technology but I can't find it now. There might be something buried in the Coinalytics website that could help track where ransom payment coins go to.

http://coinalytics.co/

tracking cryptocurrency payments is a wet dream. one can always convert their bitcoins into peercoins/nubits and send them through multiple exchanges before cashing out the fiat (if at all). also, dirty money can always be used for paying for dirty goods and services. there could even appear a second market for "dirty" coins that need to be laundered.

[unamis76]

There's nothing stopping criminals from doing crimes, wither with fiat or Bitcoin. So you can't really stop bad things from happening because of money, unless people's mentality change, or we stop using money.

As for Ransomware, I do agree it's a serious problem, but these kinds of viruses date way back to early PC's, with the difference that they couldn't receive any money for the data back then... There will always be people doing it because "they can" or "want". It can also be stopped with good firewalls/antivirus solutions and with good attitudes from who's between the monitor and the chair

Didn't know about those drones with guns... Sounds pretty dangerous. If someone bothered another one using those drones with weapons, they could still be caught (unless the drone autodestructs itself and doesn't return to the owner - someone would have to get it back).

I think OP is quite right about the paradigm shift... But not right about people stopping showing their wealth. I think it's the other way around: everyone should respect each other's wealth. Me and probably the OP and many members of this forum don't look or act any differently in front of anyone with more or less wealth. Although I am not in favor of rich people showing off their goods, if they can afford it, there's no need to hide it. Example: if I was rich, I'd probably buy a gold watch and wear it everyday. Many people would notice and many people would call me a showoff or comment negatively about it... But I'm just wearing something I like and that I can afford, without shoving it in front of people's faces.

My post is now starting to be very long and I hope I managed to get my point across... Basically, summing it all up, as we stand right now there will always be people making crimes not because of social differences but because of mentality ("I have to have more than him, and I can't, so I'll have what's his"), and only a change in mentality would stop it.

[Hyena]

There's nothing stopping criminals from doing crimes, wither with fiat or Bitcoin. So you can't really stop bad things from happening because of money, unless people's mentality change, or we stop using money.

Right. However, I would argue that with the help of bitcoin, people who didn't become criminals in the past due to the fear of getting caught will now dare to do it. In Africa, people probably don't rape so much because they will be beaten to death if they get caught. In Norway, however, asylum seekers rape as much as they want because they get away with community service. It means more people will choose the path of a criminal. As a result, crime rates will rise.

When FBI openly admits that you'd better pay the ransom, we have to take matters into our own hands. What can I do to protect myself from ransomware? I use Linux instead of Windows or that rotten apple whatever it is called . What can I do to protect myself from blackmailing? I can keep low profile so that I wouldn't seem as an attractive target to criminals. The latter is spiritually a healthy way of life anyway since it defeats one's self-importance. If everyone started to do it, big corporations whose profit model is based on luxury goods and consumption would collapse into oblivion. I'd like that too.

Didn't know about those drones with guns... Sounds pretty dangerous. If someone bothered another one using those drones with weapons, they could still be caught (unless the drone autodestructs itself and doesn't return to the owner - someone would have to get it back).

You know what broadband internet is? The little USB stick that gives 3G or even 4G internet to your device. If you attached it to your drone you could control it over the internet. If you used Tor or I2P anonymizing networks then no one could track you down.

Here's the drone with a gun video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtplGzvNGHc

[unamis76]

There's nothing stopping criminals from doing crimes, wither with fiat or Bitcoin. So you can't really stop bad things from happening because of money, unless people's mentality change, or we stop using money.

Right. However, I would argue that with the help of bitcoin, people who didn't become criminals in the past due to the fear of getting caught will now dare to do it. In Africa, people probably don't rape so much because they will be beaten to death if they get caught. In Norway, however, asylum seekers rape as much as they want because they get away with community service. It means more people will choose the path of a criminal. As a result, crime rates will rise.

These kinds of crimes aren't normally money related, although some rapists do take what their victims have on their wallets/purses (small amounts). These crimes happen due to sexual dysfunctions. Also maybe because some criminal systems do not protect victims...

But I do understand your point Criminals probably feel safer doing crimes on the Internet, and using Bitcoin... And they're probably very adept in using both. But truth be told... Who is really anonymous on the Internet?

I use Linux instead of Windows or that rotten apple whatever it is called

That "rotten fruit" is closer to Linux than Windows

What can I do to protect myself from blackmailing? I can keep low profile so that I wouldn't seem as an attractive target to criminals. The latter is spiritually a healthy way of life anyway since it defeats one's self-importance. If everyone started to do it, big corporations whose profit model is based on luxury goods and consumption would collapse into oblivion. I'd like that too.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea

You know what broadband internet is? The little USB stick that gives 3G or even 4G internet to your device. If you attached it to your drone you could control it over the internet. If you used Tor or I2P anonymizing networks then no one could track you down.

Here's the drone with a gun video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtplGzvNGHc

Thanks for the link, I was definitely not aware of this... Pretty frightening

I understand that the connection could be pretty much untraceable, but something physical is not: after completing the "service" the drone would either have to be disposed of or return to it's point of origin... To be disposed of, the criminal would have to be sure that a ransom that covers the cost of the hardware would be paid, and he can't be sure of that... That sounds like too much risk and could safely (and fortunately) prevent quite a lot of crimes.

[remotemass]

Sooner or later we will have to embrace "lie detectors" and "mind reading" technologies.
In the Age of Machines everything that moves will eventually be tracked all the time with GPS and RFID and that data will ultimately be made available to all using blockchain tech.
Right now, everyone is against that path but once everyone starts seeing the threat as if it were cancer we will have to say yes to it. It will be a matter of survival, on the level of planetary existetial risks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/3nxi7l/the_threat_of_emp_may_be_greater_than_you_think/cvsdaq2

[NorrisK]

Ofcourse it is a potential problem, but he scenario you sketched can just as well be done with fiat and current movement systems.

Criminals pay shells to host bank accounts / paypal accounts. Nobody ever knows who was behind the attack and some poor kid loses his life.

Might become easier with bitcoin, yes, but it is not like it isn't happening already.

[franky1]

problem: hacking a computer to install ransomware
solution 1: back up your data regularly and if your files get encrypted and blackmails begin. laugh while wiping your computer and copying the data back over
solution 2: get a good spyware/antivirus that detects you clicking on stupid adverts to get infected in the first place
solution 3: dont be a muppet by click adverts
solution 4: if you get a random call telling you that you have computer issues.. start making animal noises and tell them the only windows u have are on the barn

problem: future hacker takes over your cars cruise control and steering.
solution: put your car in offline mode. insert the reset disk to put car back to factory settings

there is always a solution to many problems

[Gleb Gamow]

Thanks for starting this. I have my own "impending nightmare" scenario that this thread is perfect for discussion.
********************************************

It's an ordinary night in 2025, in the home of an upscale family in middle America. The wife's cell phone rings.

"Hi, Jane here..."

"Lady, you got a 2023 Mercedes Z-class, right? License plate 847 GHM. You heard those stories in the news about the Zombies right?

"Uhh, right - "

"Lady, listen up carefully. We are Zombies. We can come to your house anytime and eat you. So, if you and your family don't want to be eaten tomorrow, you need to send us $500 in bitcoin, right away. Nothing personal. I'll text you the bitcoin address in a minute. Remember, stay safe - and don't forget that guy who was eaten alive with the act uploaded on YouTube."

"Wait, uhh"

"Tonight lady. Deadline is when the sun goes down." *CLICK*

(Distressed, the lady of the house begins pulling up her bitcoin account as the text comes through, preparing to pay. Husband walks in.)

"Honey, who was that?"

"Zombies."

"Oh no. You're not going to pay them, are you??"

"What choice do we have? You've seen the news stories. Even if 90% of them Zombies are lying, we can't take the risk. You've seen the stories. And remember what happened to Mandy and John? They went missing two days ago."

"I know, I know... it's just.... it's the 3rd time this year. Enough of that. What's for dinner?"

"Leg of Mandy."
********************************************

[cjmoles]

I know, things are getting so interesting. I agree, as a community we need to find ways to protect the innocent when they are adopting the block chain ledger as a medium for commerce. The only thing stopping the criminals from doing anything they want is their own creativity because anonymity is easy and risk is low.  

[ebliever]

Thanks for starting this. I have my own "impending nightmare" scenario that this thread is perfect for discussion.
********************************************

It's an ordinary night in 2025, in the home of an upscale family in middle America. The wife's cell phone rings.

"Hi, Jane here..."

"Lady, you got a 2023 Mercedes Z-class, right? License plate 847 GHM. You heard those stories in the news about the hacking right?

"Uhh, right - "

"Lady, listen up carefully. We got you hacked. We can take over your car's semi-autonomous driving controls whenever we want. So if you want to stay out of the ditch tomorrow, you need to send us $500 in bitcoin, right away. Nothing personal. I'll text you the bitcoin address in a minute. Remember, stay safe - and don't forget that guy who's fighting a lawsuit because he didn't pay and his car hit that kid."

"Wait, uhh"

"Tonight lady. Deadline is midnight." *CLICK*

(Distressed, the lady of the house begins pulling up her bitcoin account as the text comes through, preparing to pay. Husband walks in.)

"Honey, who was that?"

"Hackers."

"Oh no. You're not going to pay them, are you??"

"What choice do we have? You've seen the news stories. Even if 90% of them are scammers who are lying, we can't take the risk. You've seen the stories. And remember what happened to Mandy and John?"

"I know, I know... it's just.... it's the 3rd time this year."
********************************************

With the rapid adoption of semi-autonomous driving, I see this scenario being very likely.  (I'm a supplier engineer directly involved with the GM Super Cruise semi-autonomous car going on sale next year, and the industry is rushing headlong down this path.) The barriers to entry for the criminals is very low - all it will take are a few news stories to get the ball rolling, and then every half-wit can jump in and claim to be hacking cars whether they have the skills or not. With low risk of getting caught, why wouldn't criminals try this?

A big part of the answer is going to have to be advanced and robust security in the vehicles themselves. I'm not satisfied with the state of things with vehicles, not by a long shot. But any way to deal with it on the payments side would also be helpful. I realize this conflicts badly with the goal of privacy with bitcoin, but the problem isn't going to go away just by wishing it would.

I think the hacked person would not be responsible at all, so this kind of things would not work. I mean, if that was not the case, a lot of people would be in jail/fined because of their computer having been part of a botnet.

----

I think simply there is no way to be ahead of criminals, they will always find new ways of breaking the law... just consider drug smugglers, from time to time they have become very creative. I think, as you say, the best way is to keep a low profile (as long as it is possible).

Huh? What do you mean "not responsible at all"? My point was that hackers would threaten to put your car in the ditch, or even into oncoming traffic. There have already been demonstrations (including one really stupid real-world demonstration on a public road that could have ended tragically) of such hacking with current vehicles. Never mind the legal liability point I had the criminal make, it's the risk of killing you or wrecking your car that is the primary point.

[gentlemand]

Huh? What do you mean "not responsible at all"? My point was that hackers would threaten to put your car in the ditch, or even into oncoming traffic. There have already been demonstrations (including one really stupid real-world demonstration on a public road that could have ended tragically) of such hacking with current vehicles. Never mind the legal liability point I had the criminal make, it's the risk of killing you or wrecking your car that is the primary point.

I really didn't think this was possible until I read about the Jeep being hacked. By the sounds of it manufacturers had barely conceived of the possibility and left their systems wide open. With this and future black boxes I think I'll stick to my analogue car until it's a jailable offence.

[Q7]

Well, there is quite a dilemma here. If we intend to implement control, we won't get to enjoy the privacy and freedom that we want. And that means registering every bitcoin transaction and tracking the ins and outs conversion to fiat but even, then it may not be effective. I guess that's part and parcel of everything. If we are concerned about these things getting out of hand, the only way is to revert back but that is also not an option. I'm sure we'll figure out something. As for now, there's nothing much we can do.

[jdbtracker]

SCUD: The Disposable Assassin. Purchased over the Internet through the Blockchain along with 1000's more. Hijacked for slave labor, never complete their mission, work forever.

[Hyena]

SCUD: The Disposable Assassin. Purchased over the Internet through the Blockchain along with 1000's more. Hijacked for slave labor, never complete their mission, work forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvoihJE_jqc

[Amph]

security exchange and ponzi were and they still are the biggest problem for this, criminal always play with those, there should be more effort to have a good cold storage for the former

and ponzi site should be take down the same way CP are take down, then you have those playing with extorsions, i doubt you can annihilate all of them

but like you said i think that if everyone use exchange only for trading and don't use web wallet, but local wallet with cold storage, it will be more hard for criminals to hit, because they don't even know that you are holding a fortune

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

I like very much your approach of rich people needing to stop bragging about wealth to avoid next gen kidnapping techniques. I also like the idea of Bitcoin making people twink twice before spending it on something stupid because they value Bitcoin more than fiat. Bitcoin will bring some modesty and some saving ethics as well.

[Cryptorials]

Taking the example of the autonomous cars, if they are widely used and its possible to hack them:

I would prefer to have lots of criminals publicizing the fact that they are hackable than have all the sheep keep believing the official story that they are totally safe, only to get bumped off by some secret government agency crashing their car because they expressed an unauthorized opinion on social media.

People shouldn't be using unsafe technologies, and masking their problems by cutting off only their most visible manifestation is not something that strikes me as particularly positive or useful.

[Gyfts]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/26/business/dealbook/for-ransom-bitcoin-replaces-the-bag-of-bills.html?_r=0

Taking Bitcoins instead of cash has been an idea that's been rising the last months. It's nothing new. It makes it a whole lot easier to get away with kidnapping crimes and a lot safer for criminals. Using malware and demanding bitcoins for to get rid of it is one or the more popular ways to steal BTC. Kidnappings don't always use it because it can be difficult to locate millions upon millions of dollars in coins.

[makcik]

Bitcoins currency have many advantages , but in recent times, some people are using it as an disadvantage by following
(1) Porn industry-- It's a secret industry and payments here are done in btc as fear of getting caught is less
(2) Drones and terrorism-- Many terrorists and terrorism groups use bitcoins for buying illegal weapons and drones.
(3) This is the most worst one, KIDNAPPING-- Many rich people are kidnapped and asked to pay in btc otherwise they'll be killed, this is not less than robbery .a few days ago, this has happened with a billionaire person in Hong Kong.

[Timeline]

Technology can always be used for good or bad. I believe that the good possibilities that BTC brings outweight the bad.

[Hyena]

Technology can always be used for good or bad. I believe that the good possibilities that BTC brings outweight the bad.

Or as Alan Watts has said that with a bigger yang always comes a bigger yin. You can't have one without the other.