Why is buying/selling Bitcoin so difficult?

[alj92]

Hi everyone,

A little bit of a dissappointed (attempted) Bitcoin user here.

I live in Colombia and have a business that has software provided for by a tech in Canada. We have had nothing but trouble with wire transfers due to exchange rates flying all over the place with the Peso and the Dollar. Recently he suggested to give Bitcoin a try. The idea of being able to transfer money instantly to him at a relatively low cost seemed like a very good idea.

Setting up a wallet was very easy, and I did not have to provide any info aside from my email. However, when it came to buying the coins, I had to practically give away every piece of information I had. CAVIRTEX, the Canadian Exchange wanted my Passport, ID, Utility Bill and a photo of me holding my ID. I have a Canadian Passport, but obviously living in Colombia, my ID and Utility Bills are from Medellín which put my Canadian bank out of the question. When trying to do a transfer through local bitcoins, users on there wanted the same information as well for a email transfer. Trying to buy local proved useless as the few options in Medellín, Colombia wanted at mínimum 25% fee on the transaction, which is way higher than what the banks are taking from me each month during the transfers.  Many of the trusted US based firms wont allow me to open an account due to my location, and of course ask for much of the same information.

In my head I always thought this process was simple. I watched a Joe Rogan podcast with a Bitcoin wallet or Exchange owner (or something along those lines) talk about being in Argentina and Venezuela and how everyone was using Bitcoin because it was so easy and internationally accepted. Peer to peer transfers might make it easy to buy and sell a few dollars here and there as a hobby, but when it comes to moving decent amounts of money on a consistent basis, this becomes extremely difficult. Has it always been this way, or am I late to the party and things have tightened up since the beginning?

Would be curious to get some thoughts from people on here who know far more about BTC than I ever will regarding my experiences.

Appreciate the time.

[Meuh6879]

Bitcoin is not a bank.
It's free and trust.

valuable shit ... so, it's not cheap.
deal with it.

by the way, the problem is only the financial KYC ... applied to all merchand (of bitcoin).
so ... the problem is not bitcoin, it's the STATE.

[franky1]

problem 1

I live in Colombia, using peso' ...-...  CAVIRTEX, the Canadian Exchange

if you live in columbia, use a columbian exchange that accepts peso's, leave the bitcoin<->canadian dollars for the recipient to deal with, you should never need to be having a canadian bank account involved.. otherwise your not really doing anything different then a canadian to canadian wire transfer..

whomever told you to use cavirtex obviously missed the point

problem 2
it seems you didnt do much of a search on peso exchanges..
try googling:
bitcoin peso
bitcoin mexico
bitcoin columbia

i seen many results on google that seemed to favour your native currency..


all you need to do is link your columbian/mexican bank to a columbian/mexican exchange. and buy bitcoin..
there is no need to care about canadian banks or rates.. stick with what you initially wanted.. to get peso's and turn them into bitcoin fast to give to recipient. then the recipient deals with the  canadian side.. not you

[iram66680]

There are different regulations at different places. At places with more developed infrastructure, there would be more people selling for Bitcoin. With higher demands, local exchanges could be opened and it doesn't required too much verification. You could just seek help at the local section or currency exchanges sections and use an escrow.

[gentlemand]

Legacy financial regulations are what makes it so difficult. If you look into its earlier days when it was tiny, Bitcoin was probably easier to buy than it is today simply because the authorities didn't care about it. Now there are proper amounts flowing into it it has landed on their radar and no exchange or selling service can ignore all the ID stuff.

[SFR10]

I had the same thought as you couple of months back as every exchange I tried to use, had these verification purposes that made me think twice before provided the needed stuff like an I.D of mine, a passport together with my bank card pictured.... so I tried to look for another one each time until I found out all are the same and these verifications are a necessity for your own safety so don't get frustrated...once you all verified with those, the whole process of exchange would be smooth as you imagined the first time

[alj92]

problem 1

I live in Colombia, using peso' ...-...  CAVIRTEX, the Canadian Exchange

if you live in columbia, use a columbian exchange that accepts peso's, leave the bitcoin<->canadian dollars for the recipient to deal with, you should never need to be having a canadian bank account involved.. otherwise your not really doing anything different then a canadian to canadian wire transfer..

whomever told you to use cavirtex obviously missed the point

problem 2
it seems you didnt do much of a search on peso exchanges..
try googling:
bitcoin peso
bitcoin mexico
bitcoin columbia

i seen many results on google that seemed to favour your native currency..


all you need to do is link your columbian/mexican bank to a columbian/mexican exchange. and buy bitcoin..
there is no need to care about canadian banks or rates.. stick with what you initially wanted.. to get peso's and turn them into bitcoin fast to give to recipient. then the recipient deals with the  canadian side.. not you

There is no Bitcoin exchange for Colombia. There is one said to be in the works but one does not exist at the moment. The Mexican peso and Colombian peso are different currencies as well as different countries...

[dothebeats]

Not familiar in Colombia. Have you tried localbitcoins? Russia too, don't have exchanges but localbitcoins seemed to fulfill the job of buying/selling bitcoins there.

[JeWay]

Because not everyone believe in Bitcoin yet, they have a fear of new technology.

[OROBTC]

...

alj92 is having similar problems to what Peru would be having if anyone there were interested (which last time I looked into this via our company there).  NO ONE in Peru seems to care about Bitcoin, other than a few tekkies, and even then there is next to NO BTC traffic.

BTC would not work well for our small company there because of the tight restrictions their taxation authorities place on businesses -- for example EVERY transaction we make has to go to them via email on a spreadsheet...  Not even the USA does that!

[crazyivan]

Hi everyone,

A little bit of a dissappointed (attempted) Bitcoin user here.

I live in Colombia and have a business that has software provided for by a tech in Canada. We have had nothing but trouble with wire transfers due to exchange rates flying all over the place with the Peso and the Dollar. Recently he suggested to give Bitcoin a try. The idea of being able to transfer money instantly to him at a relatively low cost seemed like a very good idea.

Setting up a wallet was very easy, and I did not have to provide any info aside from my email. However, when it came to buying the coins, I had to practically give away every piece of information I had. CAVIRTEX, the Canadian Exchange wanted my Passport, ID, Utility Bill and a photo of me holding my ID. I have a Canadian Passport, but obviously living in Colombia, my ID and Utility Bills are from Medellín which put my Canadian bank out of the question. When trying to do a transfer through local bitcoins, users on there wanted the same information as well for a email transfer. Trying to buy local proved useless as the few options in Medellín, Colombia wanted at mínimum 25% fee on the transaction, which is way higher than what the banks are taking from me each month during the transfers.  Many of the trusted US based firms wont allow me to open an account due to my location, and of course ask for much of the same information.

In my head I always thought this process was simple. I watched a Joe Rogan podcast with a Bitcoin wallet or Exchange owner (or something along those lines) talk about being in Argentina and Venezuela and how everyone was using Bitcoin because it was so easy and internationally accepted. Peer to peer transfers might make it easy to buy and sell a few dollars here and there as a hobby, but when it comes to moving decent amounts of money on a consistent basis, this becomes extremely difficult. Has it always been this way, or am I late to the party and things have tightened up since the beginning?

Would be curious to get some thoughts from people on here who know far more about BTC than I ever will regarding my experiences.

Appreciate the time.

There are bunch of services which let you use your credit card to buy BTC. Still, some of them also ask for information. This is a standard practice, KYC polices, to make sure your money does come from legit sources, not from terrorism, drugs or something like that.

[Laosai]

Well it differs and varies on countries , too bad it's kinda hard to buy and sell bitcoins on your country.

While on my country, I can easily buy bitcoins with my mobile load and through money remittance; and I can sell bitcoins instantly through cardless ATM withdrawal

[ajareselde]

You shouldn't give up on bitcoin just because your first attempts at using it were no easy. Try using an exchange that doesn't have such strict rules for depositing/trading.
For example btc-e, or just simply buy btc from our users here at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0 which is currency exchange.
I for one never had a problem in both selling and buying btc, even with using my own bank account, no ID verification or anything.

[Watoshi]

You shouldn't use that shitty exchange. Try localbitcoins or here in the forum in the currency exchange section.

[lumeire]

That was my also my problem earlier in the scene, I'm happy my local exchange here doesn't ask too much info like in there - only Facebook and Phone verifications - I have trade limits though.

There are other exchanges aside from Virwox, try South American exchanges like SurBTC or BitEx.la

If you still can't, try meetups, maybe there's enough local traders there or even here in the forums.

[makcik]

Bitcoin have grown now as a famous cashless currency. But, still people hesitate in buying and selling For the following problems. 
(1) Bitcointalkers and traders are not available in every country or every region, so buying isn't possible easily for people.
(2) People still think that earning btc using online methods is better as they don't want to do investment.
(3) Rate not being uniform, btc rate keeps changing always, so people think that buying may give them a loss, but this can get reversed too and they may get more money For same btc, but still people have different choices.

[Mickeyb]

OP, I completely understand how you feel. My best friend lives in the US and about six months ago, he has gave up on buying bitcoins since he didn't want to send every piece of personal info that they required him to send. At the end, he wired me the money and I bought them in Europe for him. Now we are talking about US here, you can only imagine how much harder is for countries like Colombia.

Buying coins and securing coins are two biggest hurdles that people get stumbled upon at the moment in Bitcoin. And this needs to be improved largely if we want mass adoption, we all know this. But slowly we are getting there. Coinbase for example, even though I don't like them much, gives me a right to buy 500 euros worth of bitcoins with my credit card daily at the moment by sending only a copy of my passport. I am based in France and this was unthinkable to do just a month ago.

[Kprawn]

I share your pain... They say Bitcoins is Pseudo-anonymous until you use these 3rd parties. The thing is they need this information to adhere to all their local laws {KYC/AML}

and to help The Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) to combat domestic and international money laundering, terrorist financing, and other financial crimes.

The problem is, none of these 3rd parties can be trusted 100% and your information is stored on a central location for any good hacker to access. Once they get hold of your

digital information, they could link you to other fraudulent activities, without you even knowing it.  

[Q7]

I think it's pretty standard that you have to go through all the verification process and sending in the information but you can always opt for another method by having a one-to-one meetup and doing a live instant transfer. Not sure if you have it there, but where I live we have something like a local bitcoin club where you can actually meetup with people sharing the same interest. I met few of fellow enthusiast through that channel myself and they are more than happy to help out newbies looking to buy small amount of coins. 

[NorrisK]

I think you are just unlucky with the country you are in at the moment.

Here in The Netherlands it is extremely easy to buy and sell bitcoins. We have a service (bitonic), which allows you to buy and sell directly through your bank account using a local payment system (iDeal). No extra information is required, extremely nice to use. Fees depend on the amount you want, for bigger amounts it is less.

[ranochigo]

The difficulty differs with different countries. Most countries does allow Bitcoin and have clear regulatory measures for it. However, for those who don't, the acceptance rate could be very low and there is no need for people to open an exchange there. In my country, it is easy with several exchanges open for me to use.

[Furio]

I think you are just unlucky with the country you are in at the moment.

Here in The Netherlands it is extremely easy to buy and sell bitcoins. We have a service (bitonic), which allows you to buy and sell directly through your bank account using a local payment system (iDeal). No extra information is required, extremely nice to use. Fees depend on the amount you want, for bigger amounts it is less.

The same applies to paying bills with bitcoin in the Netherlands, any sepa banktranfer can be done using services like bitbill or bitwa.la.

[dollarneed]

like what all told, why not to try localbitcoins or just find a bitcoiner from your country to purchased some bitcoin from him, you can find them here, in my  country it so extremely easy to buying bitcoin used our banks, even some payment processor like pp or netllr

[thejaytiesto]

The difficulty differs with different countries. Most countries does allow Bitcoin and have clear regulatory measures for it. However, for those who don't, the acceptance rate could be very low and there is no need for people to open an exchange there. In my country, it is easy with several exchanges open for me to use.

In the entire USA and Europe the regulations are mostly the same. I have no idea how does it work outside those 2 continents tho. It seems that the best way to get BTC is still good ol local Bitcoin. Just be sure that the dude you are dealing with has good reputation.

[Yerm]

im also pretty disappointed at the exchanges, they make buying and selling such a tedious process. all the verification that needs to be done just scares away new potential bitcoin users.

[ranochigo]

im also pretty disappointed at the exchanges, they make buying and selling such a tedious process. all the verification that needs to be done just scares away new potential bitcoin users.

Exchanges don't want it either, they obviously want trade volume and profits. However, they have to comply the KYC/AML measures that are set from the government. If they don't, the company would be charged with the operation of unlicensed money transmitting.

In some places where it isn't necessary for them to do so at low volumes, they set a limit for the customers to trade without submitting documents. E.g. Kraken.

[bct-user]

buy through localbitcoin and find people near you who can trade bitcoin.
trade with people on this forum, but you should use an escrow.
or exchange your local currency to USD, then use PayPal for bitcoin.

[Amph]

because there are many exchanges, and it is easy for people to get lost among those, and miss the better one

coinimal and kraken don't require any id, under certain level of money

[alj92]

buy through localbitcoin and find people near you who can trade bitcoin.
trade with people on this forum, but you should use an escrow.
or exchange your local currency to USD, then use PayPal for bitcoin.

I was looking at moving between 40 & 55 Bitcoins per transaction once a month to and from our provider. No one on Local Bitcoins was able to handle that volume dor less than a 20-25% fee which made it worthless. However, looking to buy 1 or 2 coins seemed reasonable.

[bri912678]

There is a Bitcoin ATM at Medellín, Antioquia, Colombia. Some of them only require a mobile phone number, or no ID at all to buy and sell Bitcoins through, though they all charge a fee. I don't know if that Colombian Bitcoin ATM requires ID or if it's near you, but it could be worth inquiring about if it's close enough. It's faster using them than waiting for bank transfers to get to exchanges.

https://localbitcoins.com/ad/166850/bitcoin-atm-medellin-antioquia-colombia

Sell bitcoins and get cash from Bitcoin ATM at Medellín, Antioquia, Colombia. Location: Medellín, Antioquia, Colombia. Currency: Colombian Peso (COP).

[chicken65]

Hi everyone,

A little bit of a dissappointed (attempted) Bitcoin user here.

I live in Colombia and have a business that has software provided for by a tech in Canada. We have had nothing but trouble with wire transfers due to exchange rates flying all over the place with the Peso and the Dollar. Recently he suggested to give Bitcoin a try. The idea of being able to transfer money instantly to him at a relatively low cost seemed like a very good idea.

Setting up a wallet was very easy, and I did not have to provide any info aside from my email. However, when it came to buying the coins, I had to practically give away every piece of information I had. CAVIRTEX, the Canadian Exchange wanted my Passport, ID, Utility Bill and a photo of me holding my ID. I have a Canadian Passport, but obviously living in Colombia, my ID and Utility Bills are from Medellín which put my Canadian bank out of the question. When trying to do a transfer through local bitcoins, users on there wanted the same information as well for a email transfer. Trying to buy local proved useless as the few options in Medellín, Colombia wanted at mínimum 25% fee on the transaction, which is way higher than what the banks are taking from me each month during the transfers.  Many of the trusted US based firms wont allow me to open an account due to my location, and of course ask for much of the same information.

In my head I always thought this process was simple. I watched a Joe Rogan podcast with a Bitcoin wallet or Exchange owner (or something along those lines) talk about being in Argentina and Venezuela and how everyone was using Bitcoin because it was so easy and internationally accepted. Peer to peer transfers might make it easy to buy and sell a few dollars here and there as a hobby, but when it comes to moving decent amounts of money on a consistent basis, this becomes extremely difficult. Has it always been this way, or am I late to the party and things have tightened up since the beginning?

Would be curious to get some thoughts from people on here who know far more about BTC than I ever will regarding my experiences.

Appreciate the time.

Yes its incredibly difficult even for someone who knows how to get it. Just yesterday I was in a mad rush to buy more btc  and really just wanted to buy with my credit card instantly form anywhere Tried various google buy INSTAN BTC searches and sites to do just that but nothing cam other than the usual suspects which I tried such as Coinabase.  I joined went through all their ID stuff only to be beaten at the end of a highly irritating 2 hours of BS and met with a statement saying there will be 5 day wait before funds from my bank account would be transferred + some pretty large fees. I then tried Xapo - waste of time and again high fees and long delay. I then went to LocalBitcoin which I have used before and managed to pick up 2 btc on there and i sent some money to bitstamp as well which will cleared on Tuesday.  That was six hours after my initial attempt to buy BTC earlier on in the day. I spent half a day trying to buy 4 btc other than having to use Localbitcoin. Now imagine what its like for someone who has no idea about Bitcoin world. Very difficult and of course most will give up.
Fastest def localbitcoin but no use for large amounts and the site has thieves lurking for sure. And get this - quite a few sellers on LBC ask for the same id. Effectively you hand over to a complete stranger - and individual you have no idea who they are all your ID.. Madness! Obviously reject such sellers immediately.

Also the amount of ID requirements now for exchanges is scary - and the id required means were wide open for identity theft

[chicken65]

because there are many exchanges, and it is easy for people to get lost among those, and miss the better one

coinimal and kraken don't require any id, under certain level of money

Handy to know. Ill check out Kraken

[chicken65]

Obviously theres a healthy market for fake ID's.

[pereira4]

buy through localbitcoin and find people near you who can trade bitcoin.
trade with people on this forum, but you should use an escrow.
or exchange your local currency to USD, then use PayPal for bitcoin.

It's been a while since I've sold any Bitcoins and I don't plan to but i've been checking out in LocalBitcoins and i've seen that more and more people require your ID too to get anything done. Also I would be wary of fake sellers that are really agents trying to catch people laundering money, I have heard some stories about that at least in USA.

[bct-user]

buy through localbitcoin and find people near you who can trade bitcoin.
trade with people on this forum, but you should use an escrow.
or exchange your local currency to USD, then use PayPal for bitcoin.

It's been a while since I've sold any Bitcoins and I don't plan to but i've been checking out in LocalBitcoins and i've seen that more and more people require your ID too to get anything done. Also I would be wary of fake sellers that are really agents trying to catch people laundering money, I have heard some stories about that at least in USA.

find people near you, trade it face to face

I was looking at moving between 40 & 55 Bitcoins per transaction once a month to and from our provider. No one on Local Bitcoins was able to handle that volume dor less than a 20-25% fee which made it worthless. However, looking to buy 1 or 2 coins seemed reasonable.

40-55 bitcoin per month is a lot amount are you build a company/merchant? maybe you should try use bitpay.

[maokoto]

You could try coinbase. It worked for me in Spain, although I had to provide some id.

I recall it accepted many countries.

[Fraxinus]

Well,I can certainly tell one of the best options out there is localbitocins.Easy,reliable,many options to choose from.I've not used that many exchanges like coinbase so I can't help you regarding them.

[alj92]

People do not read the damn threads?, at least half the comments here suggest to try localbitcoins, even though he clearly stated that the sellers were asking a profit % higher than that paid in bank fees (later he also clarified that no one in localbitcoins was willing to sell the needed amount of bitcoin).

I am a Colombian and as far as I know our government is not exactly positive about btc (Read "superintendencia financiera"'s position here, or just google about it and you will find the information on their own site), hence, not many people will be willing to trade Bitcoin as a business.

I am not going to tell you how to manage your stuff, but, why do not you hire a local? (teach him/her how the software works, then let him/her handle your needs). There are very talented individuals here and salaries are low compared to that of foreigners. I am curious about what software is that, why the Canadian guy does not come to (live to) the country? (it has to be something really unique that he can impose his conditions to you).

I am a co-founder of lottery/sportsbook/bingo operation. I have lived in Medellín for two years with my wife (paisa), don't plan on ever going back. Hired two devleopers from Ruta N, a big tech office downtown in the city. The first developer took over the software and attempted to hold it for ransom which ended in a complete mess. The second was just unable to handle the workload and set me back a month. I was paying 18,000,000 COP a month, and it got me no where. Paying 2-3X that per month to someone in Canada gives me peace of mind, which for me is well worth it.

Bancolombia wire limits as well as their ever fluctuating exchange rate makes it difficult. Localbitcoins made it even worse, as people here just aren't willing or capable to handle the volume at any rate that makes it even the slightest bit worthwhile. But to build on what you said, not only are people not willing to buy Bitcoin, few people are willing to buy anything online. The couple times I tried to purchase from local vendors online, Chevignon, Adidas, it was a complete nightmare. I still have a dispute on my credit card open with Adidas Colombia. Getting online payments to be widely accepted here is just the first step in a long process to even get 1% of the population here thinking about Bitcoin, let alone using it often.

I was just disappointed. Bitcoin is broadcast as a solution for all of the problems I am experiencing. Download a wallet and have "cash" on your smartphone you can transfer anywhere in the world instantly for free...yeah, right. At the end of the day it seems 98/100 people have a very small balance and do this only as a hobby, 1/100 have large balances and do this only as an investment, and 1/100 people are willing to do business, but charge absurd prices to do so and required large amounts of verification. So at the end of the day, Bitcoin really isn't any different than any of the financial systems already in place, in-fact, it is more difficult and painful to try use...for me anyway.

[Light]

Because for local markets supply is limited - it's insanely hard to find reasonable pricing for local exchanges if you're not in the US. They can simply price gouge as much as they want - which kind of makes the whole reduced fees idea worthless. As for buying Bitcoin via bank transfers/CC, some of it is difficult in different countries simply because of regulation and that banks tend to associate large international transfers with no prior history/explanation as high risk/possible fraudulent transactions. Plus most of the banks don't really have much interest in helping Bitcoin users anyway - it doesn't help their bottomline so why should they care?

[gentlemand]

So at the end of the day, Bitcoin really isn't any different than any of the financial systems already in place, in-fact, it is more difficult and painful to try use...for me anyway.

It's the need to interface with your local currency that will always be the problem. That has to be enabled by third parties. Plenty of them will be thieves. Others will be incompetent. All of them will be looking to make as much as possible out of you.

Bitcoin itself works fine. At this early stage the gateway to entry is what causes the problems for everyone.

[Kprawn]

The solution would be to introduce AML/KYC Free vending machine with small daily limits. If there are small limits, people will not be able to use it to fund massive terrorist

campaigns or launder money with it. It would make entry to Bitcoin so much easier. We had some Bitcoin vending machines here, but that was in the beginning when people

were less paranoid about all these regulations. It would be difficult to get it accepted, but it is worth a try. 

[newbitcoins]

In the Netherlands we got 'Ideal' an online payment system you just type in your bank login and password en buy stuff with it. Bitonic.nl use that system. just put in the amount of bitcoins you want to buy, type in your bank login and password. thats it. 

That is very convenient for the people is the Netherlands. Do you know how many people use this service in your country?

[poseidon2017]

I watched your post, and I just remembered a friend who talked to me about this page http://www.bitcoinsuramerica.com/
They are based in Bogota, he used them and recommended to me.
Off topic, I use www.surbitcoin.com, a Venezuelan exchange. I wrote them and they confirmed that for the end of this year they shall have a Colombian exchange. May be too long time for you, but you can keep an eye on them, since they have some time working and they are a serious company.

[traderbit]

If you concern is only to buy or sell then it is not difficult.
But to get the best rate of trading that is the hardest part.
Also depends on which country you live and how much is bitcoin popular there.

[Sir_lagsalot]

It's not bitcoin itself that causes all these problems. It's laws, trading regulations and common safety technique.

Without these, people can buy and sell bitcoin super-fast, but it would be extremely risky, due to scammers and liars. I'm sure you'd rather give your bank your details to make sure you are legit, rather than you losing all your bitcoin.

[addy boy]

Bitcoins are now reaching all over the world, no doubt
it's a global currency now, but still buying/selling btc is
difficult. .here's why
(1) Bitcointalkers are not available in every country or
every region, so buying isn't possible easily
(2) People still think that earning btc using online tasks
is better than buying btc, well it's their personal choice,
no arguments.
(3) Rate not being uniform, btc rate keeps changing
always, so people think that buying may give them a
loss, for example a person who bought 1btc 10 days ago
was in profit as price was 17,000INR , but now it's
21,000INR.