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traderbit
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November 02, 2015, 11:24:06 PM
 #21

The more bitcoins that are lost the more the price is increased.
Because less coins in the market the higher the price will be.
I don't think that it is a danger because it can be normal.

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November 03, 2015, 12:37:40 AM
 #22

They can certainly influence the market and price of bitcoin but I don't think they can truly damage the economy. Don't worry! And any big moves would be somewhat traceable back to these few people so they wouldn't be able to do something without a lot of people suspecting foul play.

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November 03, 2015, 12:53:00 AM
 #23

I was wondering if this two factors:

- Milion of BTC lost by banks (like MT GOX) or by distracted people
- Milion of BTC in hand of few people (like Satoshi) than now have in their hand more than 200 milion of $

Can damage the BTC economy? Shouldn't this 2 factors increase the BTC value more and more?

someone who has hundreds of millions worth in bitcoin is not stupid enough to crash the market.

and many of the lost coins (I don't mean stolen coins like mt gox, i mean coins that no one has the private key to anymore) can never be recovered, so they can be considered a donation to everyone.
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November 03, 2015, 04:54:35 PM
 #24

I was wondering if this two factors:

- Milion of BTC lost by banks (like MT GOX) or by distracted people
- Milion of BTC in hand of few people (like Satoshi) than now have in their hand more than 200 milion of $

Can damage the BTC economy? Shouldn't this 2 factors increase the BTC value more and more?

The bitcoins of Mt Gox are not lost. Are stolen and are in circulation or it can be in circulation in every moment. The same with the bitcoins of Satoshi. But if even these amount mentioned by you are lost and cannot enter in the market why must affect the actual situation of bitcoin or its market. The actual situation or the price of bitcoin in the market is exact how must be without having those amounts. This equilibrium is arrived without those. So why the lack of the above amounts must affect in some way something or everything connected with bitcoin.  The price can be changed if those amounts enter in the market. But without those the situation is exact like it can (must) be without those.
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November 04, 2015, 10:58:53 PM
 #25

Technically it should increase the price, though I don't personally think that the removal of large amounts of BTC from the Bitcoin ecosystem is good due to the deflationary effect that it can have. You may have even been able to see that with the recent rally: less market activity as the price rose dramatically.
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November 04, 2015, 11:14:19 PM
 #26

Technically it should increase the price, though I don't personally think that the removal of large amounts of BTC from the Bitcoin ecosystem is good due to the deflationary effect that it can have. You may have even been able to see that with the recent rally: less market activity as the price rose dramatically.

those are extreme cases though

no one in their right mind will spend something that might be worth double the next day if they can wait a day with their purchase.

deflation is never that extreme though.

in fact, currently we still have inflation, and technically will keep having inflation until 2100ish. (although it will likely stabilize sooner)

since bitcoin will not be destroyed that often (aside from a few accidents) the value of bitcoin will rise and fall with the global economy if it becomes the main world currency.

so bitcoin will be worth more if the economy is healthy, and worth less when the economy is unhealthy.
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November 04, 2015, 11:24:29 PM
 #27

Lost bitcoin are not problem at all. (I mean for general bitcoin community, if you are the one who lost BTC, its is painful)
Every bitcoin lost makes rest of them worth slightly more, it is like donation for bitcoin community.
And we can't do anything about rich individuals, there is no way to restrict people from having large amount of BTC...

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November 05, 2015, 07:00:15 AM
 #28

Technically it should increase the price, though I don't personally think that the removal of large amounts of BTC from the Bitcoin ecosystem is good due to the deflationary effect that it can have. You may have even been able to see that with the recent rally: less market activity as the price rose dramatically.

those are extreme cases though

no one in their right mind will spend something that might be worth double the next day if they can wait a day with their purchase.

deflation is never that extreme though.

in fact, currently we still have inflation, and technically will keep having inflation until 2100ish. (although it will likely stabilize sooner)

since bitcoin will not be destroyed that often (aside from a few accidents) the value of bitcoin will rise and fall with the global economy if it becomes the main world currency.

so bitcoin will be worth more if the economy is healthy, and worth less when the economy is unhealthy.

We have an inflationary monetary supply when talking about the Bitcoin protocol. However, currently due to the price rises it is effectively the same effect on the Bitcoin ecosystem as one would see from a currency experiencing deflation in, say, the USA.
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November 24, 2015, 09:47:00 AM
 #29

I was wondering if this two factors:

- Milion of BTC lost by banks (like MT GOX) or by distracted people
- Milion of BTC in hand of few people (like Satoshi) than now have in their hand more than 200 milion of $

Can damage the BTC economy? Shouldn't this 2 factors increase the BTC value more and more?

Must want to comment even something else. Which is as a conclusion of the various data read at internet. Firstly are not millions the bitcoins lost at Mt Gox. Maybe are 1 million or maximum a few more than 1 million, and to tell millions of bitcoins lost for this kind of amounts seems very exaggerated. As for the second case it is again totally wrong. The data read by me (see Wikipedia for more) show that the amount of bitcoin owned by Satoshi Nakamoto are only 1 million. According to Wikipedia: "The public bitcoin transaction log shows that Nakamoto's known wallets contain roughly one million bitcoins." So again it is without sense to tell millions of bitcoins when one credible source give as amount owned by him the above amount told by me.

So must be much more few the bitcoins that are not in market.
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November 24, 2015, 10:01:57 AM
 #30

the btc wasn't really lose, people who stole the btc will make it for buying somethin like what people usually do, and if someone wanted to hold all of btc around the world on his hand its like he just killing himself

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November 24, 2015, 10:16:57 AM
 #31

I don't think it will change anything. It's exactly the same thing for fiat money: millions of $ are lost evry year because of the very same causes and it has no effect, it's just replaced by new money!

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November 24, 2015, 01:10:30 PM
 #32

I don't think it will change anything. It's exactly the same thing for fiat money: millions of $ are lost evry year because of the very same causes and it has no effect, it's just replaced by new money!

There is so much difference in fiat and bitcoin economy. Fiat can be replaced by new money if paper money got lost or damaged but bitcon can't be replaced by new ones. You have to remember only 21 million bitcoin can be mined till the end so if any coin get lost it will be decreased from total available coins.


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zodiac3011
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November 24, 2015, 02:38:40 PM
 #33

I don't think it will change anything. It's exactly the same thing for fiat money: millions of $ are lost evry year because of the very same causes and it has no effect, it's just replaced by new money!

There is so much difference in fiat and bitcoin economy. Fiat can be replaced by new money if paper money got lost or damaged but bitcon can't be replaced by new ones. You have to remember only 21 million bitcoin can be mined till the end so if any coin get lost it will be decreased from total available coins.
Yes the lost btc with decrease the supply but it will also increase the value of bitcoin too
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November 24, 2015, 02:42:55 PM
 #34

I was wondering if this two factors:

- Milion of BTC lost by banks (like MT GOX) or by distracted people
- Milion of BTC in hand of few people (like Satoshi) than now have in their hand more than 200 milion of $

Can damage the BTC economy? Shouldn't this 2 factors increase the BTC value more and more?

If all of the bticoins fall into some banks laps, it will be over for bitcoin, it will just be treated like the dollar. The people profiting from it will be the banks.

If it falls into a hand few of people it still has a chance to stay the way it's going right now. I doubt people like that would detroy bitcoin. There's a reason for them to own that many bitcoins. They will probably secure the supply and demand of bitcoin.
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November 24, 2015, 03:07:33 PM
 #35

People need to understand one basic fact. Even if you initially give say: 1 BTC to 21 million of people it won't be ideal solution. Initially everyone will be equal but then some of the more clever, intelligent or vicious individuals would accumulate more and more of other people's coins. Some of these people would go bankrupt and some will gain 10, 100, 100000 of their coins. That is the way it works.

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November 24, 2015, 04:29:50 PM
 #36

I don't think it will change anything. It's exactly the same thing for fiat money: millions of $ are lost evry year because of the very same causes and it has no effect, it's just replaced by new money!

There is so much difference in fiat and bitcoin economy. Fiat can be replaced by new money if paper money got lost or damaged but bitcon can't be replaced by new ones. You have to remember only 21 million bitcoin can be mined till the end so if any coin get lost it will be decreased from total available coins.
Yes the lost btc with decrease the supply but it will also increase the value of bitcoin too

Some coins are indeed lost, but what about the nearly 1,000,000 that Satoshi is supposed to have. Are these coins lost as well? That's something only Satoshi himself knows. He didn't move any of the coins in his wallets even when the price reached +$1000. It might be because he can't access the wallets, or simply because he thinks it will reach a price much higher than $1000.

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November 24, 2015, 06:38:08 PM
 #37

Yes, if someone dumps a big ammount as this one, the price will drop very hard probably

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November 24, 2015, 11:55:45 PM
 #38

no,its not a danger..and dont call Mark Zuckerberg,Bill Gates,Syeikh Mansour and any other bilioner a danger,right?
even that bilioner have so much money,and even they can control it,its not a danger,bitcoin also like that,no one can control bitcoin even they have so many,just focus with your faucet or anything who can give you bitcoin,ruin for biggest bitcoin owner.

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November 25, 2015, 03:16:35 AM
 #39

how do they know that the bitcoins have been lost? maybe they are hidden somewhere that we dont know by clever people only to resurface when the prices are high. the bitcoins are held by few people who want to create an artificial shortage. have you ever heard of the term, decrease of supply will lead to an increase in demand which automatically increase the price? so no need to worry because the bitcoin is safe.
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November 25, 2015, 05:47:15 PM
 #40

I would rather have a million of bitcoins in the hand of a few people rather than corporate companies. I believe that those few people will keep working on bitcoin and not only keep the profits to themselves but wanting to help bitcoin grow and make it a success.
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