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Author Topic: Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong calls the industry to fork Bitcoin Core  (Read 9104 times)
MayDee
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November 05, 2015, 06:56:38 PM
 #81

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...
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November 05, 2015, 07:00:37 PM
 #82

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Name calling is the best argument small block proponents have in their pocket. 

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November 05, 2015, 07:02:17 PM
 #83

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
Zarathustra
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November 05, 2015, 07:13:05 PM
 #84

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Name calling is the best argument small block proponents have in their pocket. 

It's great that the small blockers expose themselves over and over again.
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November 05, 2015, 07:14:28 PM
 #85

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.


I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Funny, that is how I perceive things as well when I present a risk mechanism.  Blank stares follow.  But I'll pop one out again.  I (unlike Peter R) will not waste a lot of time going over econ101 material.

Economies of scale favor those who are positioned to monetize various aspects of a crypto-currency ecosystem using the very same tools and techniques which have been used to support other communication modes (e-mail, web search, etc.)

Such entities will force all other infrastructure support actors who are driven by a profit motive out of the market.  This will leave the entire infrastructure support in the hands of a few entities who are themselves completely dependent on the pleasure of the state to operate.  Long-sought items such as black/white-listing and intensive tracking are almost certain in such an environment.  This will kill one of the only practical advantages that Bitcoin as a native system has.  (And for Peter R, Hearndresen, etc it will be 'mission accomplished' I strongly suspect.)

I've never seen any effort to address this danger from the Bloatists at all, much less engineer against such an eventuality.  That's one of the main reasons for me to believe that such a failure is 'not a bug but rather a feature.'


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November 05, 2015, 07:26:52 PM
 #86

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked" they not his theories. They are part of Bitcoin's intensive system as designed by Shatoshi! He just showed them to you.  

Satoshi's Bitcoin intensive structure is not yet broken dispirit all your name calling.

lots of ignorent people call bitcoin's incentive structure broken and say Satoshi was wrong.

the reason your debunking stays hiddenin obscure forums, mailing-lists and irc chats is it wont stand up to the cleansing that is provided by sunlight.

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
brg444
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November 05, 2015, 07:31:21 PM
 #87

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked" they not his theories. They are part of Bitcoin's intensive system as designed by Shatoshi! He just showed them to you.  

Satoshi's Bitcoin intensive structure is not yet broken dispirit all your name calling.

lots of ignorent people call bitcoin's incentive structure broken and say Satoshi was wrong.

Yes, Peter's charlatanism was indeed very useful in describing how fragile the incentives behind the systems are and how stupid it would be to leave the block size unbounded.

You know the part he likes to gloss over about negative externalities? Yep, that part.

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 05, 2015, 07:33:40 PM
 #88

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked" they not his theories. They are part of Bitcoin's intensive system as designed by Shatoshi! He just showed them to you.  

Satoshi's Bitcoin intensive structure is not yet broken dispirit all your name calling.

lots of ignorent people call bitcoin's incentive structure broken and say Satoshi was wrong.

Yes, Peter's charlatanism was indeed very useful in describing how fragile the incentives behind the systems are and how stupid it would be to leave the block size unbounded.

You know the part he likes to gloss over about negative externalities? Yep, that part.

nop. Just smoke and small block screen.

Bitcoin's alkalis heel is centralized development and decision making.  And you not helping.  

Thank me in Bits 12MwnzxtprG2mHm3rKdgi7NmJKCypsMMQw
brg444
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November 05, 2015, 07:37:00 PM
 #89

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked" they not his theories. They are part of Bitcoin's intensive system as designed by Shatoshi! He just showed them to you.  

Satoshi's Bitcoin intensive structure is not yet broken dispirit all your name calling.

lots of ignorent people call bitcoin's incentive structure broken and say Satoshi was wrong.

Yes, Peter's charlatanism was indeed very useful in describing how fragile the incentives behind the systems are and how stupid it would be to leave the block size unbounded.

You know the part he likes to gloss over about negative externalities? Yep, that part.

nop. Just smoke and small block screen.

Bitcoin's alkalis heel is centralized development and decision making.  And you not helping.  

 Huh

Bitcoin's Achilles' heel is the consolidation centralization of its governance into the hands of a few corporate organizations by way of making access to a full node impossible for individuals.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 05, 2015, 07:44:38 PM
 #90

Peter R. Rizun at Scaling Bitcoin Montreal 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0Pjj_ms2k


Peter R's mojo is made potent by an economically and technically illiterate audiences who lack critical thinking skills and the ability to generate unique thoughts on their own.  And to the fact that some segment of the population is drawn to shiny and colorful things which itself is an artifact of our simian ancestry where nature selected individuals who were able to identify fruit which was ripe.  Fortunately for Peter R the world is full of such people.



I see a lot of name calling, but can't see any actual arguments...

Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked throughout various forums, mailing-lists and irc chats.

Don't blame it on us if you're late to the party.

"Peter's "spherical blockchains" theories have been thoroughly debunked" they not his theories. They are part of Bitcoin's intensive system as designed by Shatoshi! He just showed them to you.  

Satoshi's Bitcoin intensive structure is not yet broken dispirit all your name calling.

lots of ignorent people call bitcoin's incentive structure broken and say Satoshi was wrong.

Yes, Peter's charlatanism was indeed very useful in describing how fragile the incentives behind the systems are and how stupid it would be to leave the block size unbounded.

You know the part he likes to gloss over about negative externalities? Yep, that part.

nop. Just smoke and small block screen.

Bitcoin's alkalis heel is centralized development and decision making.  And you not helping.  

 Huh

Bitcoin's Achilles' heel is the consolidation centralization of its governance into the hands of a few corporate organizations by way of making access to a full node impossible for individuals.



Satoshi never designed Bitcoin for your free shit nodes army. That was never intended as everybody knows here, including the blockstream shills.
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November 05, 2015, 07:49:38 PM
 #91

The funny thing is that none of the alts have fixed this either!

You are wrong.

There is a solution already in the alts; however, if applied to Bitcoin, it comes at a very high price namely going over the 21 million maximum number of bitcoins.

One way to fix this problem in a proof of work coin is to combine adaptive blocksize limits with a permanent minimum block subsidy. One alt, Monero, has done just that by combining the adaptive blocksize limits in Cryptonote (A quadratic formula that penalizes over size blocks by reducing the block subsidy) with a permanent minimum block subsidy. The original Cryptonote adaptive blocksize limits, as for example they are implemented in Bytecoin, fail when the block subsidy runs out. The penalty function simply does not work when there is no block subsidy. The key problem is that there is no clear way to establish a fee market in the absence of a block subsidy, and at the same time allow for the blocksize to grow. This is in my opinion the real reason why so many of the core developers are "dragging their feet" on this issue. Dodgecoin has a permanent minimum block subsidy but no adaptive blocksize limits; however one can argue that introducing adaptive blocksize limits is a much lesser violation of the social covenant than increasing the overall money supply.

As for some of the proposed fixes we have:
Bitcoin Unlimited: The same problem as Bytecoin, and most other Cryptonote coins except Monero, only worse since there is no penalty function. Some however will argue that orphan blocks do create an effective penalty function; however this effective penalty function is also dependent on a block subsidy.
Bitcoin XT / BIP 101: The effectively pushes the problem into the future by replacing the 1 MB blocksixe limit with a 8 GB blocksize limit over a period of 20 years
BIP 100: This effectively creates a mining cartel, where the miners effectively raise fees to maximize their profits at the expense of the rest of the network.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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November 05, 2015, 07:53:15 PM
 #92

Satoshi never designed Bitcoin for your free shit nodes army.

I'm gonna keep this quote close. Thank you.

So just in order to clear the air you confirm that you vision of Bitcoin is one of mega data centers running full nodes with every individual users all over the world using SPV?

"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 05, 2015, 08:04:42 PM
 #93

Satoshi never designed Bitcoin for your free shit nodes army.

I'm gonna keep this quote close. Thank you.

So just in order to clear the air you confirm that you vision of Bitcoin is one of mega data centers running full nodes with every individual users all over the world using SPV?

Basically yes, the same vision Satoshi had and we all bought in. Unless you have something better to propose that is not vaporware as of right now?

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November 05, 2015, 08:05:13 PM
 #94

Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong calls the industry to fork Bitcoin Core
Could anyone give one example of a fork that was more successful?  Huh

That kind of fork never happened before so no.

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November 05, 2015, 08:11:55 PM
 #95

Satoshi never designed Bitcoin for your free shit nodes army.

I'm gonna keep this quote close. Thank you.

So just in order to clear the air you confirm that you vision of Bitcoin is one of mega data centers running full nodes with every individual users all over the world using SPV?

Basically yes, the same vision Satoshi had and we all bought in. Unless you have something better to propose that is not vaporware as of right now?

Satoshi's vision was dependent on SPV having fraud proof level security which it does not and we have little idea how to implement with current technology.


"I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash." Hal Finney, Dec. 2010
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November 05, 2015, 08:24:49 PM
 #96

Satoshi never designed Bitcoin for your free shit nodes army.

I'm gonna keep this quote close. Thank you.

So just in order to clear the air you confirm that you vision of Bitcoin is one of mega data centers running full nodes with every individual users all over the world using SPV?

Basically yes, the same vision Satoshi had and we all bought in. Unless you have something better to propose that is not vaporware as of right now?

Satoshi's vision was dependent on SPV having fraud proof level security which it does not and we have little idea how to implement with current technology.


It's not like nodes will turn out as data centers by tomorrow, even with bigger blocks we are years away from that. That gives plenty of time to improve security of SPV clients which is already good.

Also, it's not because we get bigger blocks that we can't still find solutions to keep the blockchain as small as possible. Everyone agrees that it is a good thing. It’s not because solutions aren't available now that they won’t arise in the future.

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November 05, 2015, 08:26:25 PM
 #97

XT has code which blacklists IPs. Until that is removed, it can keep sinking to where it deserves to go.

EDIT: This is another unfortunate desire of Coinbase. They have a history of rejecting accounts due to tainted Bitcoins. IMHO this destroys the fungibility property of Bitcoin. If your BTC can be rejected because it was used for undesirable activities in the past (even if you had nothing to do with those activities) then your BTC is not worth the same as other BTC. It's also a form of censorship.

THis is pretty much the end of the debate right here, nothing else matters.  The idea of blacklisting coins, go make some shitcoin.
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November 05, 2015, 08:42:31 PM
 #98

XT has code which blacklists IPs. Until that is removed, it can keep sinking to where it deserves to go.

EDIT: This is another unfortunate desire of Coinbase. They have a history of rejecting accounts due to tainted Bitcoins. IMHO this destroys the fungibility property of Bitcoin. If your BTC can be rejected because it was used for undesirable activities in the past (even if you had nothing to do with those activities) then your BTC is not worth the same as other BTC. It's also a form of censorship.

THis is pretty much the end of the debate right here, nothing else matters.  The idea of blacklisting coins, go make some shitcoin.

Just turn it off. It's that simple.

https://github.com/bitcoinxt/bitcoinxt/issues/40

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November 05, 2015, 08:48:04 PM
 #99

Oh how I wish the Bitcoin community would shun Coinbase...  Everything about that company is pure evil.

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knight22
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November 05, 2015, 09:12:30 PM
 #100

Oh how I wish the Bitcoin community would shun Coinbase...  Everything about that company is pure evil.

They are not alone on that boat you know?

http://blog.blockchain.com/2015/08/24/industry-endorses-bigger-blocks-and-bip101/

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