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Author Topic: Spain's banking crisis flared up again  (Read 906 times)
Hydrogen
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June 14, 2017, 06:59:15 AM
 #21

Banking crisis is not merely the problem of the bank itself but also economic problem of the country. When the economic growth banking will be healthy too in case there are missmanagement in the bank industry. In Indonesia , government regulate to tax account owner who has more than 200 milion rupiah or the same as 15000 USD bank account. It is small amount of cash for businessman but the governmnet is in crisis so they make policy that not profit to bank customers. Banking policy is only following state policy. That's to bad for me Indonesian people so there are many people make multiple bank account and split their deposit.


In the united states, banks make state policy.

When Chrysler and General Motors needed a bailout the state bailed them out under the condition that they conform to state mandates designed to change their business culture and reform the way they did business. When banks needed bailouts, Chris Dodd author of the TARP bill asked banks for what terms they wanted & the state agreed to every term and condition banks asked for. When Chrysler and GM asked for a bailout the state dictated terms. When banks asked for a bailout in 2008, banks dictated terms of the bailout to the state.

If wikileaks are to be believed, George Soros and Rothschild bankers were scheduled to dictate america's domestic and economic policies had Hillary Clinton won the election.

One might say part of it reflects a lack of separation between corporation and state. In past eras there were more checks and balances which prevented banks and the private sector from influencing politicians. Over time those protections have been dismantled and destroyed one by one to allow corporations and banks to more easily influence politics.


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June 14, 2017, 10:02:44 AM
 #22

...

I believe mindrust has explained the problems of European banks well.

We are in Italy now on a visit.  The whole economy seems to be going down for the count.  My wife's friend here (N. Italy) is somewhat wealthy and well-connected, yet is very pessimistic even in the "wealthy part of Italy.

The lack of action re illegal immigration might wind up being what finally kills off the European economy (above and beyond the banking discipline problems mindrust mentioned).  Very sad.

Good to hear that you've got first hand evidence of what we're talking about here. It's not just talk, it's real, effecting people's lives.

I really wouldn't be very surprised at all if the whole Europe zone except for the few strong economies out there just collapsed over the next few years and end up just like Greece, in deep debt, everyone panicking on the streets, infrustructure failing.

When there are booms there will be busts. That's how central banking works.

Another reason to decentralize things, instead of having these boom-bust cycles all the time.


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June 14, 2017, 10:19:59 AM
 #23

Hmm, this is bad news for the country. Because the existence of something crisis of a country's economy will definitely experience the bug, but it's not the bad news in the bitcoin. Because the existence of the problem it is likely that bitcoin will be more in the know many people and finally they use the bitcoin. Just look at the only reactions that they do, if it brings more users is bitcoin then we will gain a lot of advantages. just wait and see
 

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June 14, 2017, 10:20:37 AM
 #24

The western economy is actually fluctuated without the base of the currency in terms of any widely accepted valuable like gold. Watching it closely to see if it affects the crypto currencies in any way or the other.

Sometimes these types of news remind me we are heading another world wide economic crisis. If anything such to happen, we may see massive leap in cryptos. But I personally prefer a balanced world along with strong crypto. Becasue that only will ensure long lasting crypto dependent economy.
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June 17, 2017, 03:53:38 PM
 #25


I have a relative in Italy. Years ago she mentioned people there has started committing suicide out of despair of the state of the economy. She had an employer that lost 2 businesses. And this was in Florence. I heard things are much worse way down south, especially Sicily.

What caused these countries to fall like this? Is this a hangover from the past? I mean, Italy sunk into meh status after the Renaissance and Spain and Portugal pretty much lagged after losing their empires and Greece was fucked hard by the Ottomans.

Nope, their failure is mostly racial. They just can't keep up with the advancements of our age and they are easy going, addicted to have fun. Also no work discipline.

It is almost the same with the Americas. South sucks, north is fine. Do you think it is a coincidence?  Grin

People lost their trust in Spain. Spanish Government borrowed so much money to fund their war but they didn't repay what they owe, so those people left Spain in drones and moved to more reliable countries like the Netherlands and Germany who can keep their promises. That's why Dutch Banks are considered highly reliable. (along with the Swiss and German Banks) They keep their promises. Ask Age of empires III if you don't believe me.  Grin

The story is very long but you can read some of it here:

To fully understand the peculiarities of the history of the system of public finance, and that of the closely related system of private (international) finance and banking of the Dutch Republic, one has to view it in the context of the general history of the Netherlands and of its institutions, and of the general Economic History of the Netherlands (1500 - 1815). In contrast to that general history this is a sectoral history, concerning the fiscal and financial sector.

It is important to realize that those general histories differ in an important way from those of centralized Western European monarchies, like Spain, France, England, Denmark and Sweden in the early modern era. The Netherlands were highly decentralized from their origins in the Habsburg Netherlands in the late 15th century, and (other than the monarchies just mentioned) successfully resisted attempts to bring them together under the centralized authority of a modern state.

Indeed, the Dutch Revolt that gave rise to the Republic of the United Netherlands, effectively resulted from resistance against attempts by the representatives of king Philip II of Spain, the Habsburg ruler of the country, to institute such a centralized state and a centralized system of public finance. Where in other instances the modern fiscal system resulted from, and was made subservient to, the interests of a centralizing monarchical state, in the Dutch instance the emerging fiscal system was the basis of, and was mobilized in the interests of the defense of, a stubbornly decentralised political entity.
See? Decentralization fucking rules. Ask Dutchies. That's why ethereum is a shit coin. Fuck eth. Bitcoin master race.

Ironically, the Habsburg rulers themselves pushed through the fiscal reforms that gave the rebellious provinces the wherewithal to resist the power of the sovereign. Emperor Charles V needed to increase the borrowing capacity of his government to finance his many military adventures.
Debt debt debt, and non repaid. Rekt.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Charles_V,_Holy_Roman_Emperor
"Ruler of both the Spanish Empire from 1516 and the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation from 1519, as well as of the Habsburg Netherlands from 1506"

To that end it was necessary to put in place a number of fiscal reforms that would ensure that the public debt could be adequately serviced (thereby increasing the creditworthiness of his government). In 1542 the president of the Habsburg Council of State, Lodewijk van Schoor, proposed the levy of a number of taxes throughout the Habsburg Netherlands: a Tenth Penny (10 percent tax) on the income from real property and private loans, and excise taxes on beer, wine, and woollen cloth.[1] These permanent taxes, collected by the individual provinces, would enable the provinces to pay enlarged subsidies to the central government, and (by issuing bonds secured by the revenue of these taxes) finance extraordinary levies (beden in old Dutch) in time of war. Other than expected, these reforms strengthened the position of the provinces, especially Holland, because as a condition of agreeing to the reform the States of Holland demanded and got total control of the disbursement of the taxes.

Holland was now able to establish credit of its own, as the province was able to retire bond loans previously placed under compulsion as enforced loans. By this it demonstrated to potential creditors it was worthy of trust. This brought a market for voluntary credit into being that previously did not exist. This enabled Holland, and other provinces, to float bonds at a reasonable interest rate in a large pool of voluntary investors.[2]

The central government did not enjoy this good credit. On the contrary, its financing needs increased tremendously after the accession of Philip II, and this led to the crisis that caused the Revolt.

And the story goes on.

TLDR; those who have more work discipline always win in the long run. Southern dudes are worse bankers than northern dudes. That's it. What does Italy, Spain and Greece have in common? Their banks suck.


Well now that you've mentioned it, there do seem to be at least a cultural aspect to it. I remember during the height of the Greek crisis, I saw a short segment on TV noting that they have a really early retirement age. It said most retire at 45, which really sounded ridiculous to me. With the crisis, it said that the government is considering increasing the retirement age. And they seem to spend a lot on welfare, which they pay for with borrowed money.

...

I believe mindrust has explained the problems of European banks well.

We are in Italy now on a visit.  The whole economy seems to be going down for the count.  My wife's friend here (N. Italy) is somewhat wealthy and well-connected, yet is very pessimistic even in the "wealthy part of Italy.

The lack of action re illegal immigration might wind up being what finally kills off the European economy (above and beyond the banking discipline problems mindrust mentioned).  Very sad.

Yes, I doubt they'd have enough to feed all. Even Poland and Hungary has started to reject calls to take in immigrants. That's definitely going to put a strain on their welfare system.

And should attacks from immigrants increase, there could be civic unrest.
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June 18, 2017, 02:52:02 AM
 #26

Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece (obviously) are the weakest chains of EU.

All because of Germany.

Germany are enslaving those countries by giving them loans. When they can't pay it back, Germany gives them even more. They can't stop giving. ECB buys every Italian Bond there is for years. If Germany (ECB) ever stops buying, EU will collapse in a flash.

This can't end well

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/brexit-redux-ecb-ready-buy-more-italian-bonds-if-referendum-rocks-markets
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-05/italy-dependent-ecb-foreign-investors-dump-bonds-amid-capital-flight
ECB has to buy those countries' bonds, because if those countries fails, the EUR currency can fail too, or can lose it's value agains USD and other major currencies (and it can weaken Germany as well). Southern countries know this, so they're not worried too much about the prudentiality of their fiscal policy, someone will always save them (if you remember Greece, their situation has been solved too, sooner or later, somehow).

Someone will always save them, until no one does, then they will suffer and know what austerity truly means, many of those countries are blaming their problems on austerity, and austerity is in every speech except on the actual numbers, it seems the experiment is starting to fall apart.
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September 28, 2017, 03:10:45 PM
 #27

If you ever have been in Barcelona, you wouldn't believe how many white people there are who search the trash cans in La Rambla. I was shocked when I first saw it.

Men, women, youngsters. All were well dressed. They were going up and down searching the trashes. I saw many.

There are many white beggars too. I don't know what's wrong with them since they are young and can definitely work but it seems they have chosen  to be beggars  instead. (Most of them are weed addicts btw)
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September 28, 2017, 03:47:37 PM
 #28

If you ever have been in Barcelona, you wouldn't believe how many white people there are who search the trash cans in La Rambla. I was shocked when I first saw it.

Men, women, youngsters. All were well dressed. They were going up and down searching the trashes. I saw many.

There are many white beggars too. I don't know what's wrong with them since they are young and can definitely work but it seems they have chosen  to be beggars  instead. (Most of them are weed addicts btw)

Well, I am not suprised that most of them are young people. Look at official statistics of the EU here https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
Nearly 39% of all people under 25 years are unemployed in Spain. This is a huge amount for such a wealthy region like the EU. And this is not the entire truth. The figures went down over the last two years because the tourism sector has grown a lot. But such jobs are low-paid. You can not finance a family with it and many young people still live with their parents.



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mindrust
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September 28, 2017, 04:18:57 PM
 #29

If you ever have been in Barcelona, you wouldn't believe how many white people there are who search the trash cans in La Rambla. I was shocked when I first saw it.

Men, women, youngsters. All were well dressed. They were going up and down searching the trashes. I saw many.

There are many white beggars too. I don't know what's wrong with them since they are young and can definitely work but it seems they have chosen  to be beggars  instead. (Most of them are weed addicts btw)

Well, I am not suprised that most of them are young people. Look at official statistics of the EU here https://www.statista.com/statistics/266228/youth-unemployment-rate-in-eu-countries/
Nearly 39% of all people under 25 years are unemployed in Spain. This is a huge amount for such a wealthy region like the EU. And this is not the entire truth. The figures went down over the last two years because the tourism sector has grown a lot. But such jobs are low-paid. You can not finance a family with it and many young people still live with their parents.

Spanish people are being replaced by outsiders.

While I also saw Pakistani/Indian beggars too, they are much rarer. Almost every restaurant/supermarket business are captured by either Pakistanis or Indians. The ones owned by Spanish people are located in far away from the touristic areas like La Rambla. La Rambla itself is looks like a street from India tbh.

Those low paying jobs that Spanish people refuse to take, well, Arabs&Indians are taking them with graditude. That's what the real problem there.

I am Turkish myself, and i saw a kebab restaurant and dived in (couldn't resist kebab, its racial); BAM! they ain't no Turks! All Indians! And kebab tasted like shit!

In other words;
THEY TOOK YOUR JOBS FUCKTARDS.
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September 28, 2017, 04:58:02 PM
 #30

Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece (obviously) are the weakest chains of EU.

All because of Germany.

Germany are enslaving those countries by giving them loans. When they can't pay it back, Germany gives them even more. They can't stop giving. ECB buys every Italian Bond there is for years. If Germany (ECB) ever stops buying, EU will collapse in a flash.

This can't end well

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-29/brexit-redux-ecb-ready-buy-more-italian-bonds-if-referendum-rocks-markets
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-05/italy-dependent-ecb-foreign-investors-dump-bonds-amid-capital-flight

Germany is seen as the "big brother " to some of these southern European countries and so would always support and get them some loan so that they don't fall and the idea is to protect euro currency and also the German economy. Germany is known for high level manufacturing which leads to foreign exchange, so if the euro leaves its strong hold, it will affect the German economy.

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