theymos has gone insane again

[tspacepilot]

This has been discussed before. XT is an altcoin, and services that move from Bitcoin to XT are altcoin services. On bitcointalk.org, altcoins and altcoin services belong in the Alt Cryptocurrencies section. On /r/Bitcoin, altcoins and altcoin services aren't allowed.

Promoting XT and moving to XT is not the same thing.
That would be like banning a service, because they consider moving to another altcoin, even though they are still using Bitcoin.

I just want to say that I agree that it seems like he's going even farther here in that you might not even be able to talk about a company who promotes XT.  As long as XT and core are running on the same network, then it seems totally outlandish to say "you can't even talk about company X because company X has known opinions which are contrary to mine".  I dunno,  it seems like another step down a road towards nonsense.  Next thing, anyone who's ever shown sympathy or spoken kindly to someone who was a known XT promoter is not allowed.

EDIT: for the record, I'm not really an XT supporter, I run core.

[tvbcof]

I'll have no problem if he bans coinbase, i've always thought that coinbase was cancerous to bitcoin

I'm curious about why you feel this way; Coinbase has been my primary exchange for some time now.

Mine also.  So what?  They play ball with corp/gov and are thus able to provide relatively smooth service.  That is one of the reasons I use them.  The other main reason being that I could more practically leverage the U.S. judicial system to reconcile any issues that may crop up.

The fact that Coinbase is chummy with the mainstream financial sector does not in any way mean that they are protagonists for the causes of Bitcoin, or at least to the aspects of Bitcoin that appeal to me personally.  In fact it is just the opposite.  I fully expect that they will do their part to bring the solution under control of corp/gov power structures, and I expect that they will be handsomely rewarded for doing so.

---

In a feeble attempt to bring this thing back on-topic, I will say that no matter what theymos's personal views, there are fairly strong rational reasons to consider XT to be an 'alt' (as well as a hostile takeover attempt.)  His actions wrt Coinbase and their efforts to foster XT are far closer to 'consistent' than to 'insane'.

[hdbuck]

theymos is playing with fire, FBI is watching him

that would be highly probable by now and since it seems he does not go along with them USXT maniacs.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the conventional wisdom now is that Bitcoin can't possibly scale to the degree or extent that many of us thought; fork or no fork, 7000 tps is a pipe-dream. Isn't it?

[Spoetnik]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the conventional wisdom now is that Bitcoin can't possibly scale to the degree or extent that many of us thought; fork or no fork, 7000 tps is a pipe-dream. Isn't it?

ya i thought that went with out saying now..
i have no dog in this race but the criteria put forward to call theymos insane doesn't make sense to me.
if there is say two camps on this issue and he chose option A instead option B to solve a known issue
then doesn't that seem more sane than sitting on your hands ?

but i guess i am hearing you guys think his forum rules related to his choice is the problem right ?
that reminded me off the ban on any talk related to "Bitcoin Scrypt"

As a staff member here i think the idea would be to keep the mess contained right ?
and running a private site means you can make personal site rules etc.
i only hope to see rules enforced consistently..

[tvbcof]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the conventional wisdom now is that Bitcoin can't possibly scale to the degree or extent that many of us thought; fork or no fork, 7000 tps is a pipe-dream. Isn't it?

Not at all.  Just let subordinate chains do the heavy lifting associated with latte purchases and such.  When a subordinate chain gets 'full', suck the value off of it and start afresh.  Only one chain needs to be retained indefinately and maintained to high standards.  It's power can transfer any and all of the subordinate chains.  The funny thing about doing this is that rather than sapping power by distributing it around, the exact opposite thing happens.

If a well implemented sidechains ecosystem develops, and it looks quite possible here at the end of 2015, Bitcoin will be unstoppable.  I am confident to say that this has certain people who grasp the significance in a flat out panic.  Let the wars begin for real.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the conventional wisdom now is that Bitcoin can't possibly scale to the degree or extent that many of us thought; fork or no fork, 7000 tps is a pipe-dream. Isn't it?

Not at all.  Just let subordinate chains do the heavy lifting associated with latte purchases and such.  When a subordinate chain gets 'full', suck the value off of it and start afresh.  Only one chain needs to be retained indefinately and maintained to high standards.  It's power can transfer any and all of the subordinate chains.  The funny thing about doing this is that rather than sapping power by distributing it around, the exact opposite thing happens.

If a well implemented sidechains ecosystem develops, and it looks quite possible here at the end of 2015, Bitcoin will be unstoppable.  I am confident to say that this has certain people who grasp the significance in a flat out panic.  Let the wars begin for real.

I have to admit ever since the release of Liquid I've been slightly more optimistic about side-chains.

Back on topic. I don't know if Theymos is insane. And I still don't know if Satoshi is mentally deranged. Can we get a psychiatrist for the forum?

[turvarya]

In a feeble attempt to bring this thing back on-topic, I will say that no matter what theymos's personal views, there are fairly strong rational reasons to consider XT to be an 'alt' (as well as a hostile takeover attempt.)  His actions wrt Coinbase and their efforts to foster XT are far closer to 'consistent' than to 'insane'.

That why I brought this example:

This has been discussed before. XT is an altcoin, and services that move from Bitcoin to XT are altcoin services. On bitcointalk.org, altcoins and altcoin services belong in the Alt Cryptocurrencies section. On /r/Bitcoin, altcoins and altcoin services aren't allowed.

Promoting XT and moving to XT is not the same thing.
That would be like banning a service, because they consider moving to another altcoin, even though they are still using Bitcoin.

I agree, that even if I don't like forum rules, they should at least be consistent.

[tokyopotato]

This has been discussed before. XT is an altcoin, and services that move from Bitcoin to XT are altcoin services. On bitcointalk.org, altcoins and altcoin services belong in the Alt Cryptocurrencies section. On /r/Bitcoin, altcoins and altcoin services aren't allowed.

An altcoin that uses the same merkle root is by it's very nature just a forked blockchain...  and the shortest chain would become the altcoin and die. So, you can call it an altcoin but it's not an altcoin, altcoins have their own unique merkle root.  It's just a BIP, if it gains majority consensus it's Bitcoin and if it doesn't then it's nothing.

Basically, any and all Bitcoin hardforks would be considered altcoins by your definition.  

So, just calling it an altcoin is an excuse to silence any and all discussion related to a blocksize change.

[Decoded]

The only good thing about coinbase is that they pay the TX fees <3

Coinbase's XT project is basically a bitcoin modified specifically to make them profit. And wasnt bitcoin supposed to be decentralised?

[tokyopotato]

The only good thing about coinbase is that they pay the TX fees <3

Coinbase's XT project is basically a bitcoin modified specifically to make them profit. And wasnt bitcoin supposed to be decentralised?

That seems pretty silly.  Profit would come by growing their userbase, not by trying to reduce their tx fee expenses which are probably extremely minimal.  They make profit through trading fees using their own internal off-blockchain transaction ledger.  People use their service because people trust them, they are integrated with multiple services such as Lawnmower and now USAA, they have insurance and FDIC on cash deposits, a multi-sig vault, and multi-layer 2FA (MFA).

I believe their support for BIP101 has more to do with their vision of Bitcoin being able to accommodate more transactions per second.  This improves the user experience of Bitcoin because more transactions can be fit into each block, thus speeding up confirmation times.  

We are all on the same side here when it comes to Bitcoin, the question is how do we maintain decentralization without decreasing usability of Bitcoin.  As most have pointed out, if Bitcoin doesn't scale soon, there could be a catastrophic scenario where the price plummets, along with hashrates, and the ecosystem becomes so fragile that altcoins step in.

We all need to work together to ensure that Bitcoin is the clear winner and I hope Bitcoin Core devs can prove they have what it takes to bring the community together by working together to find consensus on controversial BIPs.