State of mining

[QuintLeo]

Solar is still quite expen$ive compared to most common alternatives, when you factor in the TOTAL cost.

 Also, it's not as "green" as some folks claim - MAKING the panels generates some quite nasty industrial waste, and eats quite a bit of power (mostly NOT green power).


 Wind power has the same issues, but is a bit less expensive at this time if you live in an area with fairly high average wind speeds.


 BOTH need some form of power backup, be it battery-backed or grid tie or some of both.



 About the only way to achieve RoI on any current miners is to have VERY LOW COST electric.


 AFAIK most major farms OWN their property, not lease it. On the other hand, it's sometimes cheaper to lease long-term.

 It also doesn't take much staff to run a large farm - IIRC MegaBigPower had a total staff of 10 for their large Washington farm.

[1715109626]

1715109626

[1715109626]

1715109626

[Mickeyb]

I don't mine, I use faucets. Much easier.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you earn by doing that?
Can't be much, right...

Honestly, that's not earning that's wasting a time. No offense to anyone that's doing this, but I think there are better ways to spend your time.

For the OP, I would invest in mining equipment only if I had a free electricity. In all other cases, it's much better investing directly into bitcoins.

[gkv9]

You will need some serious investment that too with free electricity to gain something very high in % on your investments with mining, as next year halving will be taking place, and so rewards will halve though, so making BTC will be much harder than it currently is...
It totally depends mostly upon what price Bitcoin will possess during halving and ahead months...

[notlist3d]

You will need some serious investment that too with free electricity to gain something very high in % on your investments with mining, as next year halving will be taking place, and so rewards will halve though, so making BTC will be much harder than it currently is...
It totally depends mostly upon what price Bitcoin will possess during halving and ahead months...

It does not necessarly take free electricity.  But it does take fairly priced electricity.  With 230 priced btc many of us were doing ok at mining as long as we  use  current gear.  Jump up to 380ish.... and were doing a whole lot better.

Granted it always could change that is the nature of BTC.   But I do not see free as necessary, just a really big bonus.

[Dalkore]

The requirements for mining are always rising and will rise as long as the difficulty keeps climbing... So yeah, if you want to stay competitive you must have ASIC's and quite a few of them.

A Chinese mining farm would help, but you can profit with much less if you have cheap electricity

This is a good point.   Mining is centralizing.  Input costs are not more important than ever if you want a real ROI.

[gkv9]

You will need some serious investment that too with free electricity to gain something very high in % on your investments with mining, as next year halving will be taking place, and so rewards will halve though, so making BTC will be much harder than it currently is...
It totally depends mostly upon what price Bitcoin will possess during halving and ahead months...

It does not necessarly take free electricity.  But it does take fairly priced electricity.  With 230 priced btc many of us were doing ok at mining as long as we  use  current gear.  Jump up to 380ish.... and were doing a whole lot better.

Granted it always could change that is the nature of BTC.   But I do not see free as necessary, just a really big bonus.

But that said by you, don't you need your complete BTC on hands to be sold at, while it jumps to 380 or above???
That's where the problem is, you have them invested in mining and you need to be lucky enough to get a genesis block which currently gives a BTC25 reward, which will be halved next year, and so I guess the mining operation earnings in BTC will also see a significant effect of the same...

[mayax]

You will need some serious investment that too with free electricity to gain something very high in % on your investments with mining, as next year halving will be taking place, and so rewards will halve though, so making BTC will be much harder than it currently is...
It totally depends mostly upon what price Bitcoin will possess during halving and ahead months...

It does not necessarly take free electricity.  But it does take fairly priced electricity.  With 230 priced btc many of us were doing ok at mining as long as we  use  current gear.  Jump up to 380ish.... and were doing a whole lot better.

Granted it always could change that is the nature of BTC.   But I do not see free as necessary, just a really big bonus.

But that said by you, don't you need your complete BTC on hands to be sold at, while it jumps to 380 or above???
That's where the problem is, you have them invested in mining and you need to be lucky enough to get a genesis block which currently gives a BTC25 reward, which will be halved next year, and so I guess the mining operation earnings in BTC will also see a significant effect of the same...

right. the chinese miners will shut down their operations.there is no reason to "mine" if you get small rewards(money).

[notlist3d]

You will need some serious investment that too with free electricity to gain something very high in % on your investments with mining, as next year halving will be taking place, and so rewards will halve though, so making BTC will be much harder than it currently is...
It totally depends mostly upon what price Bitcoin will possess during halving and ahead months...

It does not necessarly take free electricity.  But it does take fairly priced electricity.  With 230 priced btc many of us were doing ok at mining as long as we  use  current gear.  Jump up to 380ish.... and were doing a whole lot better.

Granted it always could change that is the nature of BTC.   But I do not see free as necessary, just a really big bonus.

But that said by you, don't you need your complete BTC on hands to be sold at, while it jumps to 380 or above???
That's where the problem is, you have them invested in mining and you need to be lucky enough to get a genesis block which currently gives a BTC25 reward, which will be halved next year, and so I guess the mining operation earnings in BTC will also see a significant effect of the same...

Actually I'm holding as I think it will go higher.... yes it's risky but I went into this as I enjoy it.  I never risk more then I can lose.  That being said I was profitable at 230... so I could sell at any point now and it's profit.  I just want more.

I had to get rid of some S4's I wish I would have kept as at 230 they were not making as much as compared to value.  I sold them for a good return... so it was a win but if i would have held them another 2 months I would have returned even more.

Having I don't know no one knows.... I'm talking now.  Now lots of miners are profiting if you are not your are missing out or doing it wrong.

[newbitcoins]

The requirements for mining are always rising and will rise as long as the difficulty keeps climbing... So yeah, if you want to stay competitive you must have ASIC's and quite a few of them.

A Chinese mining farm would help, but you can profit with much less if you have cheap electricity

This is a good point.   Mining is centralizing.  Input costs are not more important than ever if you want a real ROI.

The electricity price is most important of all. If you have free/low cost electricity, your miner is still profitable while others are out of money. You can also buy the very cheap old generation miners and still make money.

[nwfella]

based on my observations, it seems that only somehow profitable way (over buying bitcoin directly) is to run some Chinese mining farm next to energy grid with direct contact to ASIC manufacturers.

home mining is definitely dead for majority of world because of electricity expenses. USB gadgets are fine to play with cgminer and linux, but they will not even ROI..

+1 this

Home mining is for the most part basically dead unless you have free or near free electric.  And the situation is going to get quite a bit worse in < 6 months when the block reward drops from 25/BTC to 12.5/BTC (*)

(*) If bitcoin price isn't well over $420-$450 by around 07-24 of next year it's going to get really interesting (not in a good way) in the mining community...even for the larger farms running the most efficient gear currently available!  Particularly if bitcoin difficulty continues along it's current path.

[fr4nkthetank]

based on my observations, it seems that only somehow profitable way (over buying bitcoin directly) is to run some Chinese mining farm next to energy grid with direct contact to ASIC manufacturers.

home mining is definitely dead for majority of world because of electricity expenses. USB gadgets are fine to play with cgminer and linux, but they will not even ROI..

+1 this

Home mining is for the most part basically dead unless you have free or near free electric.  And the situation is going to get quite a bit worse in < 6 months when the block reward drops from 25/BTC to 12.5/BTC (*)

(*) If bitcoin price isn't well over $420-$450 by around 07-24 of next year it's going to get really interesting (not in a good way) in the mining community...even for the larger farms running the most efficient gear currently available!  Particularly if bitcoin difficulty continues along it's current path.

anyone know what the chinese farms are paying on average for electricity ?  this could get interesting....in north america...there are places with VERY cheap electricity...for example I pay 0.048...thats 0.036 US DOLLARS...When its over -12c outside.

[nwfella]

based on my observations, it seems that only somehow profitable way (over buying bitcoin directly) is to run some Chinese mining farm next to energy grid with direct contact to ASIC manufacturers.

home mining is definitely dead for majority of world because of electricity expenses. USB gadgets are fine to play with cgminer and linux, but they will not even ROI..

+1 this

Home mining is for the most part basically dead unless you have free or near free electric.  And the situation is going to get quite a bit worse in < 6 months when the block reward drops from 25/BTC to 12.5/BTC (*)

(*) If bitcoin price isn't well over $420-$450 by around 07-24 of next year it's going to get really interesting (not in a good way) in the mining community...even for the larger farms running the most efficient gear currently available!  Particularly if bitcoin difficulty continues along it's current path.

anyone know what the chinese farms are paying on average for electricity ?  this could get interesting....in north america...there are places with VERY cheap electricity...for example I pay 0.048...thats 0.036 US DOLLARS...When its over -12c outside.

Your rates are extremely low.  Mind if I ask what country those rates are in?

According to https://www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/average-electricity-prices-kwh.html (circa 2011) it appears as though on average China and India have the overall lowest electricity costs for developed countries.  The thing about China you have to remember though is that a great deal of people over there are setting up humongous hydro power plants to run their mining farms.  (for reference take a look at this setup in China https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1072474.0)

Also, I have heard that China offers all sorts of subsidies insofar as energy is concerned for the 'right actors'.  Whether or not this applies to the above farm I'm not entirely sure.  Either way, with the rates that you currently have you've got a far better chance than the 'snowball in hell chance at ROI' scenario that 99% of the rest of the world is currently in

[fr4nkthetank]

rm

[nwfella]

I'm in Quebec, Canada.  I have heating oil in my home, and the is a program called bi-energy (because here pretty much all heating is electric, and all our electric is hydroelectric).  so warmer than -12celcius = little less than 0.05, and colder its 0.23 cents or something.  so when its colder i switch the heating oil on.  Of course you have initial fee to pay, etc but yeah its pretty cheap.  even at 0.23 cents, I can underclock the miner and still come out profitable.  even break even is okay, because you are heating the home too.  summer, well, its cheap so the garage is pretty hot when i mine.  

Gotta love that hydro electric!!

Gotta say, wee bit jealous here.

[fr4nkthetank]

m

[nwfella]

I'm in Quebec, Canada.  I have heating oil in my home, and the is a program called bi-energy (because here pretty much all heating is electric, and all our electric is hydroelectric).  so warmer than -12celcius = little less than 0.05, and colder its 0.23 cents or something.  so when its colder i switch the heating oil on.  Of course you have initial fee to pay, etc but yeah its pretty cheap.  even at 0.23 cents, I can underclock the miner and still come out profitable.  even break even is okay, because you are heating the home too.  summer, well, its cheap so the garage is pretty hot when i mine.  

Gotta love that hydro electric!!

Gotta say, wee bit jealous here.

huehuehue but now I have no more miners, i'm small scale.  had s1, 2xs3, an s5.  I sold them all.  maybe going to get an s7. 

Very nice.  It amazes me just how energy efficient these units have gotten in such a short period of time.

[fr4nkthetank]

m

[mayax]

based on my observations, it seems that only somehow profitable way (over buying bitcoin directly) is to run some Chinese mining farm next to energy grid with direct contact to ASIC manufacturers.

home mining is definitely dead for majority of world because of electricity expenses. USB gadgets are fine to play with cgminer and linux, but they will not even ROI..

+1 this

Home mining is for the most part basically dead unless you have free or near free electric.  And the situation is going to get quite a bit worse in < 6 months when the block reward drops from 25/BTC to 12.5/BTC (*)

(*) If bitcoin price isn't well over $420-$450 by around 07-24 of next year it's going to get really interesting (not in a good way) in the mining community...even for the larger farms running the most efficient gear currently available!  Particularly if bitcoin difficulty continues along it's current path.

no worry, the price can be easily manipulated so, it will be how much it's necessary

[fr4nkthetank]

I don't mine, I use faucets. Much easier.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you earn by doing that?
Can't be much, right...

Begging is NOT earning.

Edit:  Let me rephrase that.  Taking advantage of the charity of others is not earning.

meh faucets arent really charity.  they have ads and stuff, and they give out small amounts.  a good faucet should make money.

[notlist3d]

I don't mine, I use faucets. Much easier.

Just out of curiosity, how much do you earn by doing that?
Can't be much, right...

Begging is NOT earning.

Edit:  Let me rephrase that.  Taking advantage of the charity of others is not earning.

meh faucets arent really charity.  they have ads and stuff, and they give out small amounts.  a good faucet should make money.

They are not worth the time.   They pay pennies per hour.  I know people say what if BTC is worth X times in 5 years... it could be a ton!

Fact is you are better off buying 5 dollars and spend that time on something else.   I don't think faucets have much to do with state of mining though.  It has nothing to do with mining.