nyusternie
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"Living the Kewl Life"
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February 08, 2013, 05:43:56 AM |
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Or If there is a mature person available to discuss the benefits of WoT, please I would like to hear your opinion.
Its a shame really, because when I first read the OP and searched for WoT, this is what I found https://www.mywot.com/. Although it had nothing to do with Bitcoins, I actually thought the WoT idea made a lot of sense. And the site's stats seem to indicate that its widely used (62M+). On the other hand, how many people are EVER going to use http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php? I mean REALLY? For now, I'll just stick to #bitcoin-otc, which has thus far been quite educational. |
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MPOE-PR (OP)
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February 08, 2013, 12:46:50 PM |
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Or If there is a mature person available to discuss the benefits of WoT, please I would like to hear your opinion.
Its a shame really, because when I first read the OP and searched for WoT, this is what I found https://www.mywot.com/. Although it had nothing to do with Bitcoins, I actually thought the WoT idea made a lot of sense. And the site's stats seem to indicate that its widely used (62M+). On the other hand, how many people are EVER going to use http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php? I mean REALLY? For now, I'll just stick to #bitcoin-otc, which has thus far been quite educational. To put it simply: all the people who are ever going to matter in BTC will. In fact, a majority of those who probably ever will already do. Including pretty much everyone in #bitcoin-otc, educational or not as it may be. (Also, fyi, both that channel and that site are maintained by the same person.) |
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Rawted
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February 08, 2013, 02:23:23 PM |
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I would love to setup WOT, but looking at the wiki page for it, i might as well be reading Mandarin. I have no clue what to do where, but once i figure it all out, i'll write up an easier to follow guide.
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Inaba
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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February 08, 2013, 04:54:39 PM |
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Or If there is a mature person available to discuss the benefits of WoT, please I would like to hear your opinion.
Its a shame really, because when I first read the OP and searched for WoT, this is what I found https://www.mywot.com/. Although it had nothing to do with Bitcoins, I actually thought the WoT idea made a lot of sense. And the site's stats seem to indicate that its widely used (62M+). On the other hand, how many people are EVER going to use http://bitcoin-otc.com/trust.php? I mean REALLY? For now, I'll just stick to #bitcoin-otc, which has thus far been quite educational. To put it simply: all the people who are ever going to matter in BTC will. In fact, a majority of those who probably ever will already do. Including pretty much everyone in #bitcoin-otc, educational or not as it may be. (Also, fyi, both that channel and that site are maintained by the same person.) Everyone except all the major Bitcoin business, you mean, right? None of the actually successful Bitcoin businesses use it. MPEx doesn't count, BTW, no matter how much you scream and cry about how the market cap of MPEx exceeds the entire Bitcoin economy, it's still a worthless little "exchange" (and I use that loosely) run by a failed blogger with delusions of racist granduer. Please name any top bitcoin business that's using WOT. We've already gone over this, though in the first few pages and you were unable to provide any top businesses then, I'm sure you won't be able to provide them now. |
If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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Rassah
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Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
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February 08, 2013, 09:44:37 PM |
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Inaba
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Merit: 1000
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February 09, 2013, 06:58:30 AM |
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I said businesses, not owners. Nobody in the real world gives two shits about business owners, they want to know the credibility of a business. The discussion is about "So you want to start a bitcoin business... it must use WOT!"
There are no successful bitcoin businesses using WOT as a means of establishing trust or credibility.
I don't see anything on MtGox, Aurumexchange, etc... listing anything about WOT.
But lets go ahead and say the owners. If you look at the owners and you combine ALL of the WOT ratings for everyone you listed, exactly 4 entries are dated 2013... that's out of everyone you listed. The rest are 2011 and some in 2012. If they were using WOT, they should all have 2013 entries. They don't. GMaxwell, not a business, has 3 entries in 2013. He is the leader by 300% compared to the next nearest competitor. Everyone else has zero.
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If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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Rassah
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February 10, 2013, 05:04:08 AM |
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I said businesses, not owners. Nobody in the real world gives two shits about business owners, they want to know the credibility of a business. The discussion is about "So you want to start a bitcoin business... it must use WOT!"
There are no successful bitcoin businesses using WOT as a means of establishing trust or credibility.
I don't see anything on MtGox, Aurumexchange, etc... listing anything about WOT.
http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=mtgoxGranted that's old, too. Maybe the problem is that it's not easy to use? |
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Inaba
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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February 10, 2013, 06:30:22 AM |
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Pretty sure that account predates the current incarnation of MtGox and was from when it was still in it's transition from a MtG to Bitcoin exchange. Maybe not though... but yeah, if it's from the current MtGox incarnation, it proves my point. Successful businesses don't use WOT. Got stopped using it because it was useless to the public as a whole and will always be. It's too hard to use, you nailed it.
If WoT were something valuable to the public at large, we'd see widespread adoption of the system elsewhere. We don't.
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If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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MPOE-PR (OP)
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February 10, 2013, 10:43:01 AM |
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I would love to setup WOT, but looking at the wiki page for it, i might as well be reading Mandarin. I have no clue what to do where, but once i figure it all out, i'll write up an easier to follow guide.
One thing you might try is to join #bitcoin-assets on freenode. There'll usually be someone on willing to help you, and it takes all of five minutes to set up. Pretty sure that account predates the current incarnation of MtGox and was from when it was still in it's transition from a MtG to Bitcoin exchange. Maybe not though... but yeah, if it's from the current MtGox incarnation, it proves my point. Successful businesses don't use WOT. Got stopped using it because it was useless to the public as a whole and will always be. It's too hard to use, you nailed it.
If WoT were something valuable to the public at large, we'd see widespread adoption of the system elsewhere. We don't.
It's not valuable to the public at large sparky. It's valuable to the people running businesses (which isn't something you or BFL should be concerned with, granted). Don't you have some other threads to make a fool of yourself in? You know, places where people actually care? |
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Inaba
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Activity: 1260
Merit: 1000
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February 10, 2013, 05:49:46 PM |
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Nope... just doing my part to keep people from listening to your incredible bullshit. Don't you have some racist blogging to do, or maybe some porn to film? Why are you posting here?
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If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it. There was never anything there in the first place.
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MPOE-PR (OP)
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February 10, 2013, 06:13:40 PM |
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Nope... just doing my part to keep people from listening to your incredible bullshit. Don't you have some racist blogging to do, or maybe some porn to film? Why are you posting here?
Well you know, just killing time waiting for my imaginary chips to show up from their virtual place of whatever. You? |
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addi
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February 11, 2013, 02:47:28 AM |
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Those last 2 pages of OP's replies made the credibility of the content of this sticky kind of completely neglectable for me. How can I take anything that you say serious?
I think you are still in the mindset of bitcoin as pokemon cards to trade with your friends. I'm afraid we are past that, it's way bigger than this forum, and it's getting way above your head too as it looks like.
Anyhow, I don't believe in WOT in it's current form. But I certainly like the idea behind it. What a lot of industries have is (often non-profit) organisations that give out certificates to businesses that earned credibility in a specific area. If it would be taken outside the #freenode irc and presented in such package, I certainly can see merits in it.
We can keep discussing this all day long, in the end, I don't think it really matters, I believe 'the damage' has been done. WOT is useless as it is for businesses (because 99% of the consumers don't care). Whoever is in charge has to adapt or let it die.
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MPOE-PR (OP)
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February 11, 2013, 11:04:06 AM |
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Those last 2 pages of OP's replies made the credibility of the content of this sticky kind of completely neglectable for me. How can I take anything that you say serious?
You'll learn. It's a curve, most people start in your shoes and then end up over here. Things in BTC seldom are what they seem to the uninitiated eye. Anyhow, I don't believe in WOT in it's current form.
That's fine, I don't believe in you in your current form. Guess who of the two of us is more impacted by this twin disbelief? Either adapt or die. Others have tried to challenge this point, most have died, some are still struggling. We can keep discussing this all day long, in the end, I don't think it really matters, I believe 'the damage' has been done. WOT is useless as it is for businesses (because 99% of the consumers don't care).
That's some prime rib o' idiocy right there. 99% of the consumers don't care or even know about most things, that can't be an argument in any discussion. |
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ssaCEO
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February 12, 2013, 06:49:11 PM |
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I actually just stumbled onto this thread by a misclick, and didn't bother to read 6 of the last 7 pages. But I agree with OP about one point: Running a Bitcoin business is a liability as is running any other business where money's going over the table and some of it doesn't belong to you. Most people who run businesses where they hold money for other people are licensed to do so, have lawyers, large bankrolls and limited liability structures to protect their personal possessions from irate customers, regulators and the whims of the market. We in Bitcoin have, on the other hand, a fantastic chance to build a monetary and financial system from scratch. But we have none of the protections outlined above. And therefore every coin belonging to a customer in our accounts must be considered a liability and a valid claim against us. For companies and human beings who have failed and will always be the shit of the earth in this regard, look no further than Bitcoinica, Zhou Tong, Bitcoin Consultancy, Patrick and the rest of the vermin who now style themselves as conventioneering industry leaders. They're proof that stumbling into bankruptcy by being a shortsighted idiot is just as damaging to your future prospects as driving yourself there on purpose.
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rini17
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February 12, 2013, 07:33:05 PM |
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... We in Bitcoin have, on the other hand, a fantastic chance to build a monetary and financial system from scratch. But we have none of the protections outlined above ....
Okay, so I went to check https://strikesapphire.com only to be greeted by "proxy detected - to ensure we don't accept users from jurisdictions where online gambling isn't allowed" bullshit. So, this is your idea how to build "a monetary and financial system from scratch", right? By preventively succumbing to existing insane regulation? Anyway, stuff i have here on port 80 is fine with freenode and all other proxy checkers so far. And I couldn't find any thread here where I can complain that is recent enough and isn't locked. Looks like quite a fail you've got here. |
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ssaCEO
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February 12, 2013, 07:54:37 PM |
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... We in Bitcoin have, on the other hand, a fantastic chance to build a monetary and financial system from scratch. But we have none of the protections outlined above ....
Okay, so I went to check https://strikesapphire.com only to be greeted by "proxy detected - to ensure we don't accept users from jurisdictions where online gambling isn't allowed" bullshit. So, this is your idea how to build "a monetary and financial system from scratch", right? By preventively succumbing to existing insane regulation? Just because Bitcoin opens up the possibility of acting like a total pirate for the moment doesn't mean you should run your business like a 15 year old tweaker in a basement with no regard for risk. I think that was the OP's point. Your business is a liability. Risk can come from regulatory, technical, security or financial sides of your business. In our case we spent a lot of money on lawyers and determined that the risk of running our casino to the US was greater than the value of what we could make in Bitcoin, and we have good information and good reasons to support that decision. That doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is an amazing avenue for online casinos to bypass third-party payment processors, or that it allows startup casinos lower their overhead, be more competitive and challenge the entrenched powers in the industry. What it does mean is that each business should determine for itself what level of risk it's willing to take, and make that information available to its customers because anything less would be dishonest; and we've seen enough dishonesty already surrounding crazy Bitcoin schemes. We've been in business since July 2011. It always amuses me when Americans who can't even elect a government that lets them gamble, drink unpasteurized milk or smoke a cigarette get on my case for not holding up their "freedoms". What freedoms? You know, we're open to North Korea but we don't get any players from there either. It's not my problem. |
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rini17
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February 12, 2013, 09:53:16 PM |
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... We in Bitcoin have, on the other hand, a fantastic chance to build a monetary and financial system from scratch. But we have none of the protections outlined above ....
Okay, so I went to check https://strikesapphire.com only to be greeted by "proxy detected - to ensure we don't accept users from jurisdictions where online gambling isn't allowed" bullshit. So, this is your idea how to build "a monetary and financial system from scratch", right? By preventively succumbing to existing insane regulation? Just because Bitcoin opens up the possibility of acting like a total pirate for the moment doesn't mean you should run your business like a 15 year old tweaker in a basement with no regard for risk. I think that was the OP's point. Your business is a liability. Risk can come from regulatory, technical, security or financial sides of your business. In our case we spent a lot of money on lawyers and determined that the risk of running our casino to the US was greater than the value of what we could make in Bitcoin, and we have good information and good reasons to support that decision. That doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is an amazing avenue for online casinos to bypass third-party payment processors, or that it allows startup casinos lower their overhead, be more competitive and challenge the entrenched powers in the industry. What it does mean is that each business should determine for itself what level of risk it's willing to take, and make that information available to its customers because anything less would be dishonest; and we've seen enough dishonesty already surrounding crazy Bitcoin schemes. We've been in business since July 2011. It always amuses me when Americans who can't even elect a government that lets them gamble, drink unpasteurized milk or smoke a cigarette get on my case for not holding up their "freedoms". What freedoms? You know, we're open to North Korea but we don't get any players from there either. It's not my problem. Hm, aren't there sanctions against trade with North Korea, too? And while I do see your point, how do you want to compete with people that did not spent a lot of money on lawyers? |
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ssaCEO
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February 12, 2013, 10:02:16 PM |
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Hm, aren't there sanctions against trade with North Korea, too? And while I do see your point, how do you want to compete with people that did not spent a lot of money on lawyers?
I suppose if a North Korean got to our site and deposited a Bitcoin I would have to think about what to do with that. Probably wouldn't accept it. People who don't do their research tend to get bitten in the ass. They're taking larger risks. If they take large risks and don't get bitten, then they deserve the rewards, so good on them. My point is that there's no logical inconsistency between my belief that Bitcoin is the foundation of a new kind of economy, and my instinct for self-preservation. I can believe in its potential and support it to an extent without choosing to be the guy standing in the bear trap when the US gov't decides to "do something". |
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astutiumRob
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March 14, 2013, 02:01:49 AM |
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Five years later, A is singing her first paid engagement (not quite an established Opera house, but certainly a start) and B is a juvenile delinquent. As far as A is concerned, obviously B never had a shot to begin with: didn't work his voice, didn't practice, didn't X Y Z. As far as B is concerned however, A just got a lucky break, possibly cause she's white. Or a girl. Or whatever else. B doesn't even know about the X Y Z.
Pure genius  |
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mishrahsigni
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March 22, 2013, 03:43:39 PM |
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0. I do not see why it is by default a liability, at least not any more than starting a traditional business, which is a huge liability. Can you elaborate why bitcoins makes a business more of a liability?
1. as bitcoins move into the business world, it is unreasonable to expect that every money service company, autction house, gambling site, drug trafficker, web designer, etc, is going to need to use the WOT before the they taken seriously. It is useful at this stage, but soon it will become more of a minor, but beneficial, checkbox item.
2. maybe this has some validity, but your "it's this way or nothing, buddy!" delivery makes me feel the WOT (or rather, how people use it) is a bit fascist. And no, you don't have to be Warren Buffet to not use WOT. I have done (and do) business with many bitcoiners and bitcoin companies, and I have never once gone to the WOT to check them out. There are many other ways to accomplish the same thing
2.1 jeesh! what are you, the BTC 'punisher'?
2.2 I have no idea what a WB is... (now you can berate and punish me for that)
2.2 No darling... fuck YOU. The last thing I want in the bitcoin community is the controlling Nazi attitude of what must be done and what must not be done. Bitcoins is about exactly the opposite of that.
I write this here for the sake of the newbies that had the unfortunate luck of reading this and thinking "well, fuck this! I'm outta here".
2.3 I have no fucking idea who DeathAndTaxes is, nor who you are... nor do I give a fucking rats ass (I am trying to speak to you in a tone you might be more comfy with)... because at no point can I even imagine I will have anything to do with either of you... Fuck your 'pecking order'... this isn't the high school playground. Sure some people have more 'clout' that others, but 99% of the time I don't care what they say or do because it has absolutely no effect on me, or anyone else... and when mainstream talent hits bitcoins, your cabal will be as significant as a pinky finger.
2.4 Newbies, you have permission to ask any questions you want, at any time, to anyone you want. You are NOT required to act like mental patient, abandon your wife and children, or rip the beating heart out of a grizzly bear and eat it... Just fucking do what you what to do, and remember, everything is just fine... you can relax and enjoy.
3. So, anyone who does not blab their idea to the world is stupid? wow.. how long have you lived in the REAL business world?
3. Announce your business plan. If you think your business plan has to be kept secret because otherwise others will steal it you are probably too stupid to be in business (not just BTC, but in general).
Pro tip #1: You're an idiot
Pro tip #2: You're a bigger idiot than i previous thought in Pro tip #1
4 in other words... it's just like real life.
At least we can agree on the "good luck" part of your manifesto.
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