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Author Topic: Pay with Bitcoin -> NFC anywhere! How can we accelerate adoption of Bitcoin?  (Read 1456 times)
PLUTUSit
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November 12, 2015, 04:58:45 PM
 #1

Our team is currently working on a platform that will make it possible to pay with Bitcoin at any NFC terminal in the world. Our goal was to make it more decentralized than others. This is why we have created a decentralized exchange where traders will immediately purchase your bitcoins, which automatically charges your virtual NFC credit card with the local currency of your merchant. This makes Bitcoin NFC payments fast and seamless without having to wait for adoption.

PLUTUS.it is a world where everyone accepts Bitcoin.

You can check out our website and sign up for updates: http://plutus.it (we launch in Q1 of 2016)

But speaking of Bitcoin adoption, what we really wanted to do is ask the community - what are your best ideas for convincing merchants to view Bitcoin as a serious currency? You will get a chance to be an early adopter of Plutus and be one of the first to test the beta.

We really want to know how Bitcoin can be spread effectively through social media and word of mouth, and we believe that some of you will have clever ideas to contribute. Let's try and start a Bitcoin revolution. We'd love any feedback you can throw our way.


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November 12, 2015, 05:14:18 PM
 #2

That's some good idea there! It would be wonderful to have a virtual credit card and make payments over NFC terminals using my smartphone. I was also astonished by the symphony on the initial website load and after I read this "It is the symphony of $1.5M in bitcoins being produced each week"

To answer your question, I feel the best way to convince merchants to adopt Bitcoin would be:

1) Introduce them to the benefits of using Bitcoin, mainly if they're accepting credit cards and are to pay a hefty fee of 2.5% over every credit card transaction, Bitcoin could save those fee for them and also drive in Bitcoin customers for them. Somehow we'll have to convince them how the Blockchain technology allows you to be your own bank while transacting with Bitcoins and if any tax benefits are applicable.

2) Bitcoin and virtual forms of payment are a major hype and people will hear the bells ringing at your store if you accept Bitcoin as a payment. This should encourage more customers to visit your store considering that the merchant is accepting Bitcoins as a more unique form of payment.

3) Explain to them how volatility isn't to be worried about, maybe there are some 3rd party services that are able to convert received Bitcoins into fiat instantly, if this is their major concern preventing them from adopting Bitcoins.

4) Try to eliminate any possible misconceptions they have about Bitcoins, the negativity must be let off.

PLUTUSit
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November 12, 2015, 05:41:53 PM
 #3

That's some good idea there! It would be wonderful to have a virtual credit card and make payments over NFC terminals using my smartphone. I was also astonished by the symphony on the initial website load and after I read this "It is the symphony of $1.5M in bitcoins being produced each week"

To answer your question, I feel the best way to convince merchants to adopt Bitcoin would be:

1) Introduce them to the benefits of using Bitcoin, mainly if they're accepting credit cards and are to pay a hefty fee of 2.5% over every credit card transaction, Bitcoin could save those fee for them and also drive in Bitcoin customers for them. Somehow we'll have to convince them how the Blockchain technology allows you to be your own bank while transacting with Bitcoins and if any tax benefits are applicable.

2) Bitcoin and virtual forms of payment are a major hype and people will hear the bells ringing at your store if you accept Bitcoin as a payment. This should encourage more customers to visit your store considering that the merchant is accepting Bitcoins as a more unique form of payment.

3) Explain to them how volatility isn't to be worried about, maybe there are some 3rd party services that are able to convert received Bitcoins into fiat instantly, if this is their major concern preventing them from adopting Bitcoins.

4) Try to eliminate any possible misconceptions they have about Bitcoins, the negativity must be let off.



Thanks, here is what we think..

Just like you, we want every merchant to accept Bitcoins and other digital currencies. But the fact is most merchants have been slow to get on board – which is understandable. They’re not clued up about crypto like you, so they’re naturally sceptical about it. And a merchant that starts to accept Bitcoin is still a notable celebration that echoes on the community message boards.

We want to change that. The problem is we have a big chicken and egg issue with Bitcoin. Without enough merchants, Bitcoin will struggle to become mainstream. But without mainstream use merchants don’t have enough incentive to accept it. Take NFC contact-less card payments, for example. Three years ago the market was at a standstill at around £650m. It has since grown tenfolds and is predicted to reach £17.7 billion next year in the UK alone. This is thanks to a small company called Transport of London, which was one of the first merchants to accept contactless payments, moving us faster towards a cashless society.

Plutus solves this problem by circumventing it. Instead of trying to dig a tunnel through the mountain, we’ve built a fast road around it.
Merchants will follow the trend as they have done in the past. But even if they don't, you can still pay with Bitcoin and NFC, which is why we built Plutus to help the community spend their Bitcoin at any merchant they want instead of having to wait for widespread merchant adoption. They may notice that there is an entire profit industry built on their reluctance to accept it, and that they are greatly reducing their margins. Merchants usually only respond to market pressure and cold hard stats. The main point is that users shouldn't have to wait for merchants to wake up and engage them.
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November 12, 2015, 05:47:46 PM
 #4

What kind of fees are you going to charge? I guess the use of PLUTUS will depend a lot on the fees.

If they are too high, there is no incentive for people to use it over fiat. If they are comparable to current fiat fees, than it can very well work.
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November 12, 2015, 06:21:51 PM
 #5

What kind of fees are you going to charge? I guess the use of PLUTUS will depend a lot on the fees.

If they are too high, there is no incentive for people to use it over fiat. If they are comparable to current fiat fees, than it can very well work.

Infact quite the opposite, the exchange of btc-fiat is decentralised so there are no astronomical fees for the middle man and the user gets the best rate for exchange. There will however be a service fee in the lower region of 1-4% and most of it will be offset to the buyers on the DEX network who profit from these trades.

Here is a explainer video that might help: https://vimeo.com/142680468
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November 12, 2015, 08:31:13 PM
 #6

Our team is currently working on a platform that will make it possible to pay with Bitcoin at any NFC terminal in the world. Our goal was to make it more decentralized than others. This is why we have created a decentralized exchange where traders will immediately purchase your bitcoins, which automatically charges your virtual NFC credit card with the local currency of your merchant. This makes Bitcoin NFC payments fast and seamless without having to wait for adoption.

PLUTUS.it is a world where everyone accepts Bitcoin.

You can check out our website and sign up for updates: http://plutus.it (we launch in Q1 of 2016)

But speaking of Bitcoin adoption, what we really wanted to do is ask the community - what are your best ideas for convincing merchants to view Bitcoin as a serious currency? You will get a chance to be an early adopter of Plutus and be one of the first to test the beta.

We really want to know how Bitcoin can be spread effectively through social media and word of mouth, and we believe that some of you will have clever ideas to contribute. Let's try and start a Bitcoin revolution. We'd love any feedback you can throw our way.


your service, is basically localbitcoins then.. but instead of wire transfers, its funding to a virtual debit card.. ok i get that part.
which is.. kinda ok, for people that want to use fiat retailers without the hurdles (hoping you have removed the hurdles localbitcoins has).

but i do not yet see your plan or business model showing us how you will get all these NFC fiat retailer to get onboard. so here are my idea's

1(a). virtual visa charge X% per transaction(merchant usually gets hit by that)
1(b). NFC merchants usually buy/lease the sensor equipment and need to subscribe to payment processor contracts.
1(c). you(PLUTUS) would take a cut somewhere in the middle either as a fee or by messing with the conversion value to bite out of the spread

so bitcoin user, paying bitcoin merchant can offer discounts because (a)(b)(c) wont be needed.
you(PLUTUS) can still make profit when the merchant wants to convert their received btc into fiat, so relax you still have a role.

2. to be considered a serious currency. bitcoin needs to be useful to buy toilet paper, baked beans, bread and milk..
so although using things like Dell, Overstock as prime examples of bitcoins validity. i think you need to get some of the grocery/supermarket chains onboard.
then transport networks.. then taxi's, and whatever else may use NFC.. (if NFC is what you are concentrating on)
which im sure your plan is.. afterall the NFC technology(face to face shopping locations) is useless to dell and overstock(remote shopping sites)
Walmart for instance would be the biggest shining light media attention for bitcoin, if they started accepting it.. then all the starbucks and other retailers would follow

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 12, 2015, 08:52:22 PM
 #7

This seems like a good idea, but it's very, very similar to the current bitcoin debit cards that have been very popular lately. Eventually fees weigh in a bit... And what we want is merchants accepting Bitcoin NFC payments Cheesy I hope this is a good and affordable service, nevertheless, it will certainly be very handy Smiley
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November 12, 2015, 09:55:08 PM
 #8

Our team is currently working on a platform that will make it possible to pay with Bitcoin at any NFC terminal in the world. Our goal was to make it more decentralized than others. This is why we have created a decentralized exchange where traders will immediately purchase your bitcoins, which automatically charges your virtual NFC credit card with the local currency of your merchant. This makes Bitcoin NFC payments fast and seamless without having to wait for adoption.

PLUTUS.it is a world where everyone accepts Bitcoin.

You can check out our website and sign up for updates: http://plutus.it (we launch in Q1 of 2016)

But speaking of Bitcoin adoption, what we really wanted to do is ask the community - what are your best ideas for convincing merchants to view Bitcoin as a serious currency? You will get a chance to be an early adopter of Plutus and be one of the first to test the beta.

We really want to know how Bitcoin can be spread effectively through social media and word of mouth, and we believe that some of you will have clever ideas to contribute. Let's try and start a Bitcoin revolution. We'd love any feedback you can throw our way.


your service, is basically localbitcoins then.. but instead of wire transfers, its funding to a virtual debit card.. ok i get that part.
which is.. kinda ok, for people that want to use fiat retailers without the hurdles (hoping you have removed the hurdles localbitcoins has).

but i do not yet see your plan or business model showing us how you will get all these NFC fiat retailer to get onboard. so here are my idea's

1(a). virtual visa charge X% per transaction(merchant usually gets hit by that)
1(b). NFC merchants usually buy/lease the sensor equipment and need to subscribe to payment processor contracts.
1(c). you(PLUTUS) would take a cut somewhere in the middle either as a fee or by messing with the conversion value to bite out of the spread

so bitcoin user, paying bitcoin merchant can offer discounts because (a)(b)(c) wont be needed.
you(PLUTUS) can still make profit when the merchant wants to convert their received btc into fiat, so relax you still have a role.

2. to be considered a serious currency. bitcoin needs to be useful to buy toilet paper, baked beans, bread and milk..
so although using things like Dell, Overstock as prime examples of bitcoins validity. i think you need to get some of the grocery/supermarket chains onboard.
then transport networks.. then taxi's, and whatever else may use NFC.. (if NFC is what you are concentrating on)
which im sure your plan is.. afterall the NFC technology(face to face shopping locations) is useless to dell and overstock(remote shopping sites)
Walmart for instance would be the biggest shining light media attention for bitcoin, if they started accepting it.. then all the starbucks and other retailers would follow

If you insist on a analogy then yes you can look at it that way. However Plutus follows the philosophy of Bitcoin more closely by connecting you directly with traders who buy your bitcoins in return for funding your contactless card. This means we don't have any hot wallets, which takes away the risk of cyber theft and the only middle man to trust in this case; is the smart contract.

We'll soon be doing a short proof of concept documentary for Plutus. This will cover most of the things you mentioned like buying groceries and everyday payments. Not as good as the merchant directly accepting bitcoin but its a step towards convenience nonetheless. They may notice that there is an entire profit industry built on their reluctance to accept it. Merchants usually only respond to market pressure and cold hard stats.
PLUTUSit
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November 12, 2015, 10:03:14 PM
Last edit: November 13, 2015, 01:04:30 AM by PLUTUSit
 #9

This seems like a good idea, but it's very, very similar to the current bitcoin debit cards that have been very popular lately. Eventually fees weigh in a bit... And what we want is merchants accepting Bitcoin NFC payments Cheesy I hope this is a good and affordable service, nevertheless, it will certainly be very handy Smiley

Sure you can look at it that way but only that its much more convenient and cheaper with Plutus.

With Bitcoin debit cards you have to:

1. Fill out a lenghty form.
2. Send bitcoins to a third party (this has its own risks).
3. Pay for physical card issuance.
4. Wait for upto 20 days to receieve your card.
5. Get unfair conversion rate.

OR

You can simply download the Plutus app, deposit a small amount to your phone, get the best rate on conversion (decentralised market) and by the time you get to the store you will be able to spend it effortlessly.
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November 12, 2015, 10:17:03 PM
 #10

as you just said to unamis76..
it involvees them using your app.. where your company creates the smart contract (you create the multisig privkeys), and people deposit funds to these. hotwallets of yours..

so indeed seems much like localbitcoins.. although glossed over with 'smartcontracts' you also list traders who have the ability to fund virtual debit cards, which i presume you also manage within your app..

sooo,,,

im all for making the conversion to fiat more streamline. but not under false pretenses of pretending there is no middleman. and pretending the merchant is supposedly and suddenly a bitcoin receiver. as its obvious its still a fiat transaction they will get.

so dont worry about any presentation video showing some guy standing in walmart swiping his iphones NFC over the cashiers machine.. and then say "walmart accepts bitcoins". because it seems nothing is any different.

my last post is not about gimmicks or presentations to get people to put bitcoin into your app.. my last post was asking if you would actually get supermarket retailers to accept bitcoin direct from customers.. and then you (like bitpay/coinbase) handle the conversion afterwards..

because if not.. then your gimmicky pretense of getting merchants to accept bitcoin just fell flat on your face. as you might aswell call yourself localbitcoin 2.0

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 12, 2015, 10:21:30 PM
 #11

Tipping people is the best way to spread Bitcoin in my opinion.
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November 12, 2015, 10:26:11 PM
 #12

Tipping people is the best way to spread Bitcoin in my opinion.

it actually works. not just for future consumers.. but for merchants too..

a few merchants are unsure of setting up bitpay/coinbase accounts. and what i found that really worked well was setting up a bartab.. prepaying the merchant a sum of fiat. and then set up the bitcoin accepting address service so that the merchant shows customers a bitcoin address.. and then later the merchant takes fiat out of the tab.. thus they know they get paid without question.. as they already have the money waiting for them..

plus they get to accept and play with the payment system at no cost.. just like tipping/faucets are suppose to achieve

only when their bitcoin usage grows. you introduce them to the other services like bitpay/coinbase to handle larger volume trades..

but inshort giving merchants an upfront financial gain to secure them and let them use/play for free. works

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 12, 2015, 11:12:37 PM
 #13

Getting merchants to accept Bitcoin has been a uphill battle even for some of the well funded payment processor. We gave a good example of NFC payments being stuck at a standstill before booming to new heights because of London Transport. Same can happen with Bitcoin if the technology makes it more common for everyday use. Merchants will follow the trend as they have done in the past. But even if they don't, you can still pay with Bitcoin and they will receive fiat at the NFC checkout terminal, which is why we built Plutus to help the community spend their Bitcoin at any merchant they want instead of having to wait for widespread merchant adoption.

From our comments above and the recent QA on reddit (https://redd.it/3sabrd) anyone will notice Plutus is absolutely intended for users who get paid in bitcoin, earn bitcoin through mining, receive bitcoin remittances, or travel a lot. Unlike fiat, the bitcoin is converted to local currency automatically. This especially addresses freelancers, the unbanked and anyone who doesn't want handover their coins to a third party to manage.
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November 12, 2015, 11:25:05 PM
 #14

Getting merchants to accept Bitcoin has been a uphill battle even for some of the well funded payment processor. We gave a good example of NFC payments being stuck at a standstill before booming to new heights because of London Transport. Same can happen with Bitcoin if the technology makes it more common for everyday use. Merchants will follow the trend as they have done in the past. But even if they don't, you can still pay with Bitcoin and they will receive fiat at the NFC checkout terminal, which is why we built Plutus to help the community spend their Bitcoin at any merchant they want instead of having to wait for widespread merchant adoption.

From our comments above and the recent QA on reddit (https://redd.it/3sabrd) anyone will notice Plutus is absolutely intended for users who get paid in bitcoin, earn bitcoin through mining, receive bitcoin remittances, or travel a lot. Unlike fiat, the bitcoin is converted to local currency automatically. This especially addresses freelancers, the unbanked and anyone who doesn't want handover their coins to a third party to manage.

well that was wishy washy of not answering..

so hello localbitcoin,xapo 2.0.. maybe worth you dropping the gimmick of 'retailers accepting bitcoin'..

as thats like saying my UK Visa debit is suddenly a mechanism for US retailers to accept pounds.. when we all know visa auto converts the currency so the retailer receives the dollars they want..

i think you would have more success just describing your business offerings honestly and correctly as all these gimmicky pretenses wont win you trust.
just stick to calling yourself a bitcoin debit card that converts to fiat... avoid trying to suggest retailers accepting bitcoin.. and you might have more fame by sticking to the true service offering..

have a nice day.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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November 13, 2015, 11:53:47 AM
 #15

Getting merchants to accept Bitcoin has been a uphill battle even for some of the well funded payment processor. We gave a good example of NFC payments being stuck at a standstill before booming to new heights because of London Transport. Same can happen with Bitcoin if the technology makes it more common for everyday use. Merchants will follow the trend as they have done in the past. But even if they don't, you can still pay with Bitcoin and they will receive fiat at the NFC checkout terminal, which is why we built Plutus to help the community spend their Bitcoin at any merchant they want instead of having to wait for widespread merchant adoption.

From our comments above and the recent QA on reddit (https://redd.it/3sabrd) anyone will notice Plutus is absolutely intended for users who get paid in bitcoin, earn bitcoin through mining, receive bitcoin remittances, or travel a lot. Unlike fiat, the bitcoin is converted to local currency automatically. This especially addresses freelancers, the unbanked and anyone who doesn't want handover their coins to a third party to manage.

well that was wishy washy of not answering..

so hello localbitcoin,xapo 2.0.. maybe worth you dropping the gimmick of 'retailers accepting bitcoin'..

as thats like saying my UK Visa debit is suddenly a mechanism for US retailers to accept pounds.. when we all know visa auto converts the currency so the retailer receives the dollars they want..

i think you would have more success just describing your business offerings honestly and correctly as all these gimmicky pretenses wont win you trust.
just stick to calling yourself a bitcoin debit card that converts to fiat... avoid trying to suggest retailers accepting bitcoin.. and you might have more fame by sticking to the true service offering..

have a nice day.

I get it! Make a deposit and in return, buyer on the network funds my virtual debit card. As someone who earns a weekly wage in bitcoin all I (the user) care about is if I can spend my coins without too much hassle. This solves my problem. Genius!
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November 13, 2015, 01:18:01 PM
 #16

That's some good idea there! It would be wonderful to have a virtual credit card and make payments over NFC terminals using my smartphone. I was also astonished by the symphony on the initial website load and after I read this "It is the symphony of $1.5M in bitcoins being produced each week"

To answer your question, I feel the best way to convince merchants to adopt Bitcoin would be:

1) Introduce them to the benefits of using Bitcoin, mainly if they're accepting credit cards and are to pay a hefty fee of 2.5% over every credit card transaction, Bitcoin could save those fee for them and also drive in Bitcoin customers for them. Somehow we'll have to convince them how the Blockchain technology allows you to be your own bank while transacting with Bitcoins and if any tax benefits are applicable.

2) Bitcoin and virtual forms of payment are a major hype and people will hear the bells ringing at your store if you accept Bitcoin as a payment. This should encourage more customers to visit your store considering that the merchant is accepting Bitcoins as a more unique form of payment.

3) Explain to them how volatility isn't to be worried about, maybe there are some 3rd party services that are able to convert received Bitcoins into fiat instantly, if this is their major concern preventing them from adopting Bitcoins.

4) Try to eliminate any possible misconceptions they have about Bitcoins, the negativity must be let off.



Thanks, here is what we think..

Just like you, we want every merchant to accept Bitcoins and other digital currencies. But the fact is most merchants have been slow to get on board – which is understandable. They’re not clued up about crypto like you, so they’re naturally sceptical about it. And a merchant that starts to accept Bitcoin is still a notable celebration that echoes on the community message boards.

We want to change that. The problem is we have a big chicken and egg issue with Bitcoin. Without enough merchants, Bitcoin will struggle to become mainstream. But without mainstream use merchants don’t have enough incentive to accept it. Take NFC contact-less card payments, for example. Three years ago the market was at a standstill at around £650m. It has since grown tenfolds and is predicted to reach £17.7 billion next year in the UK alone. This is thanks to a small company called Transport of London, which was one of the first merchants to accept contactless payments, moving us faster towards a cashless society.

Plutus solves this problem by circumventing it. Instead of trying to dig a tunnel through the mountain, we’ve built a fast road around it.
Merchants will follow the trend as they have done in the past. But even if they don't, you can still pay with Bitcoin and NFC, which is why we built Plutus to help the community spend their Bitcoin at any merchant they want instead of having to wait for widespread merchant adoption. They may notice that there is an entire profit industry built on their reluctance to accept it, and that they are greatly reducing their margins. Merchants usually only respond to market pressure and cold hard stats. The main point is that users shouldn't have to wait for merchants to wake up and engage them.

Very true, also with the ability to have new merchants adopt Bitcoins it becomes increasingly important to retain the existing merchants to accept Bitcoin. There were instances where online merchants accepted Bitcoins for a start but later withdrew it. It becomes important to understand the reasons for withdrawal. I remember a merchant named Tuft & Needle was earlier accepting Bitcoins but later withdrew it, and in their response they mentioned "When our website was last redesigned we discontinued the option to use Bitcoins since it didn't fit in with our new design." I'm sure with NFC payments it'll give merchants lesser reasons to not accept it.
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November 13, 2015, 02:26:11 PM
 #17

How do I sign up to become a buyer on the network?
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November 13, 2015, 02:55:53 PM
 #18

When will users see the benefit of low fees, if services like these add fees onto every transaction and also "mask" that you are using Bitcoin? This for me, is a mix between BitPay

and Xapo? The real idea about Bitcoin, is for people to use it directly and to receive immediate reward, due to the low fees. To answer your question on merchants, I would say that

you need to highlight the advantages of lower fees and also the new payment channel that are being opened.  Roll Eyes

 
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PLUTUSit
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November 13, 2015, 05:02:00 PM
 #19

How do I sign up to become a buyer on the network?

On our website after its launch in Q1.


When will users see the benefit of low fees, if services like these add fees onto every transaction and also "mask" that you are using Bitcoin? This for me, is a mix between BitPay

and Xapo? The real idea about Bitcoin, is for people to use it directly and to receive immediate reward, due to the low fees. To answer your question on merchants, I would say that

you need to highlight the advantages of lower fees and also the new payment channel that are being opened.  Roll Eyes

We wanted to stay with the philosophy of Bitcoin and remove ourselves as the intermediary and rely on smart contracts instead. The p2p exchange happens without the need of us to hold the digital currency. Its true, the merchant doesn't receive Bitcoin but you (the user) is still using Bitcoin. The store doesn’t even need to be aware of this. The app uses a smart contract to provide you with the bitcoin address of a trader willing to buy your coins, and your deposit will automatically be exchanged to the merchant’s local currency for payment. This is also done so the user gets the best rate and low fees when dealing directly with the trader. Service fees will be offset to the traders who profit from buying the coins, not the person using the app for his shopping.

The idea behind Plutus is not to be disruptive and bring about a change to the payments industry. Simply making it easier to spend Bitcoin for every day use, with out the need of a merchant accepting it. 
tiggytomb
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November 13, 2015, 05:15:54 PM
 #20

I have signed up as an early adopter, I like the idea to try to push through the NFC side of things and as many others have said there are already cards allowing purchases through retailers but they do charge quite large fees. 

Anything that gets bitcoin out to a few more retailers and people is always welcomed, i will watch this and hope it works out well and actually has a real world use.
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