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Author Topic: FINALLY!! OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY.. it's big..  (Read 4705 times)
sidhujag
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November 14, 2015, 08:51:44 PM
 #21

Does bitcoin core allow signing for nonstandard p2sh script? I just tried this and gmaxwell pointed out there are missing templates for these new type of p2sh scripts so you cant sign these new escrow time locked scripts, although you can use an external lib to do this.
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November 14, 2015, 09:22:04 PM
 #22

I'm afraid that I didn't understand. What does it actually mean ? You could buy altcoins directly from Bitcoin Core ? How could it be organised ? It seems unrealistic for me.

Basically, yes.  Once all the foundations are laid, you'd enter your buy/sell order directly through the wallet.  Obviously the user interface in the wallet software will need an update (for any coins that you want to trade between), but that shouldn't be too large a job.  The more tricky part would be the "matchmaking" bit to match a buy/sell order on one blockchain to another, but if it already works between Burst and Qora, then it should be doable in Bitcoin (and any other altcoin that wants to add support for it).  Truly decentralised trading.  The future just gets more and more interesting.  Can't wait to see which currency makes history by being the first to transact directly with the Bitcoin blockchain (hoping it's Qora or Burst, since they've got a good head start). 

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November 14, 2015, 10:27:00 PM
 #23

This is goooood news..

As of the release of Core 0.11.2 OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY is now becoming a reality.

This has major implications, as it means that REFUND TXNs now work. Without having to worry about TXN malleability.

Actually with transaction malleability finally being fixed CLTV is more a nice feature than a necessity. Moreover, practical difference is small, because for both features to work, you need both coins (that you want to trade) to implement it.
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November 15, 2015, 11:41:02 AM
 #24

Grear news! What next?  Smiley
Soros Shorts
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November 15, 2015, 02:57:40 PM
 #25

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.
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November 15, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
 #26

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.
Syscoin does this
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November 15, 2015, 05:48:02 PM
 #27

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.
Syscoin does this

Not what I had in mine. The FiatCoin would be unmineable and instead backed by an equivalent amount of fiat. The issuance would be done by a centralized authority (e.g. bank or brokerage, possibly for a small fee) but once issued they may be exchanged freely on a distributed blockchain that is compatible with cross-chain transactions. Mining will be fee based only without block rewards.
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November 15, 2015, 06:08:52 PM
 #28

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.
Syscoin does this

Not what I had in mine. The FiatCoin would be unmineable and instead backed by an equivalent amount of fiat. The issuance would be done by a centralized authority (e.g. bank or brokerage, possibly for a small fee) but once issued they may be exchanged freely on a distributed blockchain that is compatible with cross-chain transactions. Mining will be fee based only without block rewards.

if there is the old known governments behind it, how we can think of having those fiatcryptocoin without aml/kyc...we cannot, they must be decentralized like every other crypto
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November 16, 2015, 11:56:01 AM
 #29

Admittedly I'm not very well versed with P2SH so I'm not sure exactly how you could get the script that does not contain the <secret> nor public keys to actually work (but I do think this should be possible).

P2SH doesn't fundamentally change script.  It is just another way of encoding everything using a template so that the scriptPubKey is effectively included when spending the coin.

You pay to OP_HASH160 <20-byte-hash-value> OP_EQUAL and the client interprets the hash value as the hash of the actual scriptPubKey you want to use.

Script works with a stack.  For spending, the stack is initialized so that it doesn't result in a failure if the scriptPubKey is executed.

Protocol

Alice picks a random array "secret" and funds this Altcoin transaction.

Code:
OP_IF
  OP_HASH160 <hash(secret)> OP_EQUALVERIFY <Bob's public key 1> OP_CHECKSIG
OP_ELSE
  <now + 24 hours> OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY <Alice's public key 1> OP_CHECKSIG
OP_ENDIF

If Bob knew the secret, he could spend this transaction output with this stack

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <secret> OP_1

Alice can spend this transaction output with this stack

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> OP_0

OP_0 causes the else branch to execute and Alice doesn't have to provide the secret but she does have to wait 24 hours due to the locktime requirement.

This means that Alice can spend the output in 24 hours if Bob hasn't and Bob can only spend it if he finds out the secret.

Bob funds this output with BTC.

Code:
OP_IF
  OP_HASH160 <hash(secret)> OP_EQUALVERIFY <Alice's public key 2> OP_CHECKSIG
OP_ELSE
  <now + 12 hours> OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY <Bob's public key 2> OP_CHECKSIG
OP_ENDIF

This means that he can get his money back after 12 hours or Alice can spend the output immediately.  If she spends the output, she has to do it before 12 hours has passed.  This means that Bob has another 12 hours to use the secret to spend the first output.

The steps are

1) Alice picks secret and broadcasts her transaction
2) Bob verifies that her transaction is confirmed and then sends his transaction
3) Alice verifies that his transaction is confirmed and then spends his transaction (requires publishing the secret)
4) Bob uses the secret to spend Alice's transaction

To show that it is atomic, you have to show that it can be reversed if anyone refuses to continue.

Bob refuses to complete step 2)

Alice keeps the secret a secret and waits 24 hours to get her money back

Alice refuses to complete step 3)
After 12 hours Bob can recover his money
Alice has to wait 12 more hours to get her money back.  She needs to make sure to keep the secret a secret

Bob refuses to complete step 4)
He only harms himself by doing this.  After the 24 hour lockout, Alice can take back her money.  He needs to make sure to take back his money by then.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Script execution

This is a step by step guide to the first script, when Bob spends it.

The script is initialized to

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <secret> OP_1

When OP_IF fires, it will read 1 off the stack and execute the top branch.

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <secret>

OP_HASH160 will read <secret> off the stack and then place hash(secret) onto the stack.

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <hash(secret)>

<hash(secret)> will push hash(secret) onto the stack

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <hash(secret)> <hash(secret)>

OP_EQUALVERIFY makes sure the top 2 elements on the stack match and fails otherwise (and removes them)

    <signature using Bob's public key 1>

<Bob's public key 1> will push Bob's public key 1 onto the stack

    <signature using Bob's public key 1> <Bob's public key 1>

and finally OP_CHECKSIG will verify the signature using the public key (and remove both)

If all goes well, OP_1 will be pushed onto the stack.

This counts as a successful script execution.

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November 18, 2015, 07:08:07 PM
 #30

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.

Think the closest thing to that at the moment is Tether, USD₮, EUR₮, and JPY₮.  It uses the Omni (formerly Mastercoin) layer.  I've seen USD₮ on the Poloniex exchange, but haven't come across the others.  

As for what's next, hopefully some talented coders start creating stuff to utilise this new feature and wallets start updating their GUIs to handle it.  This will result in increased resistance to regulatory shutdown (exchanges are easy to shut down), increased privacy (no need to register accounts and submit to KYC/AML) and increased security (not relying on third parties to store funds and you'll have full control over private keys for the pairs you're trading in) once it's all up and running.  All things that we should be striving for.

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November 18, 2015, 07:15:20 PM
 #31

Grear news! What next?  Smiley

It would be great is someone could implement FiatCoin (pegged to USD, EUR, GBP, etc.), hopefully without any AML/KYC restrictions (beyond the initial purchase). Then you can truly trade Bitcoins and fiat from your client.

Think the closest thing to that at the moment is Tether, USD₮, EUR₮, and JPY₮.  It uses the Omni (formerly Mastercoin) layer.  I've seen USD₮ on the Poloniex exchange, but haven't come across the others.  

As for what's next, hopefully some talented coders start creating stuff to utilise this new feature and wallets start updating their GUIs to handle it.  This will result in increased resistance to regulatory shutdown (exchanges are easy to shut down), increased privacy (no need to register accounts and submit to KYC/AML) and increased security (not relying on third parties to store funds and you'll have full control over private keys for the pairs you're trading in) once it's all up and running.  All things that we should be striving for.

One possible (highly amusing) side-effect of a long-term successful USD crypto-proxy would be if the proxy started to approach the trade volume of and/or circulation velocity of actual Fed USD  Cheesy The crypto copy could usurp the Fed issued version out of existence.  Grin

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November 19, 2015, 12:57:01 AM
 #32

I feel like a lot of interesting features get lost because you need to be very knowledgeable to take advantage of them. I would like full support for all of this on the GUI.
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November 19, 2015, 06:49:48 AM
 #33

so basically we have to make banks obsolete using technology and destroy other niche jobs in the process,

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November 20, 2015, 04:04:45 PM
 #34

I feel like a lot of interesting features get lost because you need to be very knowledgeable to take advantage of them. I would like full support for all of this on the GUI.


I used to not understand a majority of how everything actually worked in crypto land. However, after time, and enough actually wanting to know, I now feel like I have a decent grasp on it, the next step is for me to put it into action and start coding the things I would like to see within BURST, starting with simple tools and going from there.

My point here, is that I truly believe that most people in this forum, aside from the ones here to scam or the ones who don't really care enough to give it their attention, have the capacity to learn what is going on, but no, it is not something you can do unless you're adamant in it, and actually want to.



That being said, I'm 100% sure all of this will be done in a simple to use format with pretty buttons. (How else will any of us get mass adoption? We all know most people's main reason for the internet is Facebook.)

So yea, things take time, in this world things move insanely fast, I'm willing to bet we will start seeing these new additions popping up all over the place very shortly.


@Doom - I also would love to see BURST be the one to do the first with BTC, I think I will go out dev hunting soon, as I know vbcs could do it by himeself, but I think having a few more people to collab with would be great. But QORA will likely want to be the first as well, and seeing as vbcs is more QORA than BURST, maybe we can work out a 3-way scenario? xD. heh.



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November 20, 2015, 05:30:13 PM
 #35

@Doom - I also would love to see BURST be the one to do the first with BTC, I think I will go out dev hunting soon, as I know vbcs could do it by himeself, but I think having a few more people to collab with would be great. But QORA will likely want to be the first as well, and seeing as vbcs is more QORA than BURST, maybe we can work out a 3-way scenario? xD. heh.

Actually, the 3-way thing is quite doable.  If both coins are ready in time, you could arrange it so that a Burst/BTC and a Qora/BTC cross chain transaction both make it into the same block on Bitcoin's blockchain.  Then they can take joint credit for being first.      Smiley

Also, I just realised we'll have Proof of Work, Proof of Stake and Proof of Capacity algorithms all acting in unison for the first time.  How truly momentous.

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November 23, 2015, 11:55:27 PM
 #36

@Doom - I also would love to see BURST be the one to do the first with BTC, I think I will go out dev hunting soon, as I know vbcs could do it by himeself, but I think having a few more people to collab with would be great. But QORA will likely want to be the first as well, and seeing as vbcs is more QORA than BURST, maybe we can work out a 3-way scenario? xD. heh.

Actually, the 3-way thing is quite doable.  If both coins are ready in time, you could arrange it so that a Burst/BTC and a Qora/BTC cross chain transaction both make it into the same block on Bitcoin's blockchain.  Then they can take joint credit for being first.      Smiley

Also, I just realised we'll have Proof of Work, Proof of Stake and Proof of Capacity algorithms all acting in unison for the first time.  How truly momentous.

This would truly be awesome. I think it should be considered, for sure. Smiley



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November 26, 2015, 09:36:26 PM
 #37

If anyone with ties to the mining community could give them a nudge to update, that would be great.  We need more version 4 blocks before OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can come out to play and all of this cross-chain awesomeness can occur.

unent
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November 26, 2015, 09:45:31 PM
 #38

If anyone with ties to the mining community could give them a nudge to update, that would be great.  We need more version 4 blocks before OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can come out to play and all of this cross-chain awesomeness can occur.

I found this bitcoinity link that graphically and textually shows how many miners out of the 1000 last blocks were using the necessary updated wallets. It shows we are 49.07% of the way to the threshold needed before OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can be used to start the awesomeness.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/block_version/5y?c=block_version&r=week&t=a

Quote
Out of 1000 last blocks, 368 had version >= 4 , and 632 did NOT which is 49.07% of the first threshold (activation).
DooMAD
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November 27, 2015, 09:09:27 PM
 #39

If anyone with ties to the mining community could give them a nudge to update, that would be great.  We need more version 4 blocks before OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can come out to play and all of this cross-chain awesomeness can occur.

I found this bitcoinity link that graphically and textually shows how many miners out of the 1000 last blocks were using the necessary updated wallets. It shows we are 49.07% of the way to the threshold needed before OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can be used to start the awesomeness.

http://data.bitcoinity.org/bitcoin/block_version/5y?c=block_version&r=week&t=a

Quote
Out of 1000 last blocks, 368 had version >= 4 , and 632 did NOT which is 49.07% of the first threshold (activation).

When you say you "found" it, do you mean you didn't see me linking to the same page in the text you just quoted?   Tongue

51% today, so at least we're half way there.

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November 27, 2015, 10:31:29 PM
 #40

Sipa created a graph which shows the average version number.

1LxbG5cKXzTwZg9mjL3gaRE835uNQEteWF
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