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Author Topic: 21.co bitcoin computer/miner  (Read 2945 times)
Xialla
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November 18, 2015, 09:20:56 PM
 #21

sorry, but I simply can't resist: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3t91ze/for_immediate_release_after_butterfly_labs/

can you please comment, if it is true or not based on your hands on experience?
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November 19, 2015, 12:11:42 AM
 #22

Can anyone with one of these post the output from this command?
Code:
cat /proc/device-tree/hat/uuid
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November 19, 2015, 05:21:35 AM
 #23

Can anyone with one of these post the output from this command?
Code:
cat /proc/device-tree/hat/uuid

Here you go: 6bc1c70f-df5f-477c-affc-b066f952b3fe



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November 19, 2015, 05:47:41 AM
 #24

sorry, but I simply can't resist: https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/3t91ze/for_immediate_release_after_butterfly_labs/

can you please comment, if it is true or not based on your hands on experience?

The author is slightly jaded... In the right hands, this unit could be an interesting testing and development tool. I don't really see it as something you can use an enterprise solution.  I'll try to address the points from that article:

Run a node - This seems to be somewhat true, while you can run a full node, it's buggy and needed to be reindexed, which it's still running after a full day. I imagine that an update will come out to improve the performance and stability.

128gb card - Seems to work ok to me, I think the author here is just picking on it without a real cause.

wifi adapter - Zero issues, works perfectly.

mining chip and fan - No issues and the noise from the fan is hardly disruptive. You don't need earplugs at all, I doubt the author ever ran a zeusminer lightning, that thing would wake the dead.  You only need one power supply, so the author is misinformed. Of note: You can't set it to mine at startup automatically (I asked on the support slack channel for 21.co). I would imagine they will fix this in the future.

API - I can't say he/she is wrong here, but there's little to no documentation on the API at this point other than some examples on the 21.co site. This isn't unusual though for a development board.  Several years ago you used to buy graphics cards that shipped without drivers.  I would imagine that the API will get fully documented soon.  Honestly, I'm a little disappointed that you need a solid linux and python background to develop on it, but it's hardly unusable. I could see myself dedicating a weekend to it and coding something for it with not too much trouble even though i'm a linux novice and never touched python.

demos - The author has a point, honestly, the demo are well, kind of crappy and the step-by-step articles don't explain what each line does. What they should have done was hire someone from o'reilly books to put together a learn-by-example book on it. They should have also included a raspberry pi and python book with the unit. If you're not familiar with linux or python, you can't do much with it right out of the box. 

Overall - I think the author of the article was a little jaded and biased (for whatever reason). This unit is kind of like one of those chemistry kits you may have had as a kid (without a good instruction book).  It's an interesting unit to experiment with and if anything it's a free mining faucet for satoshi to use for whatever you want to do with it. Like everything else in life, it is what you make it. I'm having fun with my unit, but I have no delusions that it will make me a bitcoin billionaire.




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November 19, 2015, 07:35:54 AM
 #25

Overall - I think the author of the article was a little jaded and biased (for whatever reason). This unit is kind of like one of those chemistry kits you may have had as a kid (without a good instruction book).  It's an interesting unit to experiment with and if anything it's a free mining faucet for satoshi to use for whatever you want to do with it. Like everything else in life, it is what you make it. I'm having fun with my unit, but I have no delusions that it will make me a bitcoin billionaire.

I agree it was one sided on it's writing.  But I think the reason is the 399 price tag most likely.  For that a lot were expecting something different.

I think for what you paid the software would have to be almost revolutionary like they made it sound.  So far all the things coming out sound like it was pretty weak as and they used a RPI ... they did not put into a device like they talk about so much.   It sounds like you can reproduce most of it here - https://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3tcvb9/balaji_srinivasan_how_21_mining_works/cx59gaj?context=1 .  I have not tried it but if I can reproduce all of that on equipment I have laying in my project stash... it's not that impressive. 

To be honest I not in support of DRM or closed sourced as far as bitcoin software.   But I think being able to reproduce so much for so much cheaper will keep sales low which the price tag already did.
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November 19, 2015, 07:37:26 AM
 #26

Has anyone bought one? I'd love to head some feedback.

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November 19, 2015, 02:00:55 PM
 #27

Has anyone bought one? I'd love to head some feedback.

I have one... I'm building a web-based game on another platform (c#/javascript) but plan to use some of the small amounts of satoshi from this 21.co system generates for some minor rewards in the game. Later, if there are other interesting things that I can do with it and enhance it's use, I'll likely do it.

Overall, its an interesting device as a raspberry pi with a full node, plus the capability to mine at 50ghs for small amounts of satoshi ($3-4 a month worth). There's an API where you can link python scripts (flask) to bitcoin API services through the device, but the API is not that well documented and difficult to use (although they are posting more information on it daily to the website). If you just want to mine bitcoin, this isn't for you, you'd be better off getting an Antminer S-series and focusing on doing that. If you do decide to code your own apps on it, the pi isn't really an enterprise platform that you could run a business from.  

This is really a device for developers, you should be familiar with Linux, Python, JSON, and webapi services. This is not like a netflix-consumer facing wallet/miner with a web interface to buy and sell services (like fiverr).  I think that's the future for this kind of device though but in the future with a more finished system. Someone from the openbazaar team loaded it on the 21.co system, so that's kind of interesting!

Is it fun to experiment with? Yes... Is it something a bitcoin enthusiast can use? Not yet.  Is it something a linux administrator and python developer can use? Absolutely.



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November 19, 2015, 02:11:58 PM
 #28

Im just going to throw this out there......

When the spec's for this chip was announced it was going to be 100 - 120gh @ 0.15w = 100gh = 15w

Why are these chips running at only 50gh & full voltage when its only doing half the speed??

Can someone clear this up for me??

Or is 21.co hitting the backend of this device for 50gh on top of the 50gh we are getting, Essentially giving them the same ammount of bitcoin as u for the entire time the machine is switched on??

Otherwise the efficiency specs are up the crap, Its only running 50gh @ 0.3w = 15w

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November 19, 2015, 03:07:19 PM
 #29

Im just going to throw this out there......

When the spec's for this chip was announced it was going to be 100 - 120gh @ 0.15w = 100gh = 15w

Why are these chips running at only 50gh & full voltage when its only doing half the speed??

Can someone clear this up for me??

Or is 21.co hitting the backend of this device for 50gh on top of the 50gh we are getting, Essentially giving them the same ammount of bitcoin as u for the entire time the machine is switched on??

Otherwise the efficiency specs are up the crap, Its only running 50gh @ 0.3w = 15w

I guess the 15w are for the complete device, including the RPI. How much does a RPI consume typically?
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November 20, 2015, 07:35:40 AM
 #30

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

I think 200 is even pushing it....this thing is literally a RPI 2, a wifi dongle, and a simple board extension for the RPI 2 that has a single ASIC on it and a heatsink/fan.

I wouldnt be suprised if it costs them under 100 bucks to produce.

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November 20, 2015, 12:00:51 PM
 #31

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

I think 200 is even pushing it....this thing is literally a RPI 2, a wifi dongle, and a simple board extension for the RPI 2 that has a single ASIC on it and a heatsink/fan.

I wouldnt be suprised if it costs them under 100 bucks to produce.

In quantity I would say roughly $74

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December 06, 2015, 06:58:52 PM
 #32

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

You can build it yourself for around $80 with kits that have everything need on amazon and I am sure those folks are making money on the $80.  So 21.co buying and making in bulk probably made these for around $40 each I would imagine.  Of course there is money in marketing and if they were smart they dumped a lot into marketing early to make a fast push to get the early crowd because I think now that people can see having already figured out how awesome it is to own one, but it is no where near $400 they are putting on it.

Now that they have put the target out there you better believe as open source goes you will have developers working around the clock to provide free payments libraries that will run just the same.  In fact if I understand what 21.co offered was just the tools that are already free to everyone else and then it is up to the purchaser to go and develop.  (I could be wrong there)  But I cannot find anywhere on their site where there is an out of the box payment solution that runs right off their node.  If there is, then my goof and and I missed it, but like I said there are going to be several solutions,  very soon and by soon I bet within weeks for people to start using.  Then you will have the opportunity for people to build payment stations (just like credit card machines but without the banks) such as what 21.co is doing but at a fraction of the cost. 

I think they had a great idea but came out of the gate way too greedy.
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December 06, 2015, 07:29:23 PM
 #33

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

You can build it yourself for around $80 with kits that have everything need on amazon and I am sure those folks are making money on the $80.  So 21.co buying and making in bulk probably made these for around $40 each I would imagine.  Of course there is money in marketing and if they were smart they dumped a lot into marketing early to make a fast push to get the early crowd because I think now that people can see having already figured out how awesome it is to own one, but it is no where near $400 they are putting on it.

Now that they have put the target out there you better believe as open source goes you will have developers working around the clock to provide free payments libraries that will run just the same.  In fact if I understand what 21.co offered was just the tools that are already free to everyone else and then it is up to the purchaser to go and develop.  (I could be wrong there)  But I cannot find anywhere on their site where there is an out of the box payment solution that runs right off their node.  If there is, then my goof and and I missed it, but like I said there are going to be several solutions,  very soon and by soon I bet within weeks for people to start using.  Then you will have the opportunity for people to build payment stations (just like credit card machines but without the banks) such as what 21.co is doing but at a fraction of the cost. 

I think they had a great idea but came out of the gate way too greedy.

Their idea I tought was putting asics in everyday items.   So they did not really follow their idea in my mind.  Come out with a special RPI.... that is really not the same as putting into everyday item.

I still think it's just so when they go to investors they can say they no have a item out there using their chips.  I don't think this item was meant to sell lots, but much more limited sales.
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December 06, 2015, 07:57:12 PM
 #34

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

You can build it yourself for around $80 with kits that have everything need on amazon and I am sure those folks are making money on the $80.  So 21.co buying and making in bulk probably made these for around $40 each I would imagine.  Of course there is money in marketing and if they were smart they dumped a lot into marketing early to make a fast push to get the early crowd because I think now that people can see having already figured out how awesome it is to own one, but it is no where near $400 they are putting on it.

Now that they have put the target out there you better believe as open source goes you will have developers working around the clock to provide free payments libraries that will run just the same.  In fact if I understand what 21.co offered was just the tools that are already free to everyone else and then it is up to the purchaser to go and develop.  (I could be wrong there)  But I cannot find anywhere on their site where there is an out of the box payment solution that runs right off their node.  If there is, then my goof and and I missed it, but like I said there are going to be several solutions,  very soon and by soon I bet within weeks for people to start using.  Then you will have the opportunity for people to build payment stations (just like credit card machines but without the banks) such as what 21.co is doing but at a fraction of the cost. 

I think they had a great idea but came out of the gate way too greedy.

Their idea I tought was putting asics in everyday items.   So they did not really follow their idea in my mind.  Come out with a special RPI.... that is really not the same as putting into everyday item.

I still think it's just so when they go to investors they can say they no have a item out there using their chips.  I don't think this item was meant to sell lots, but much more limited sales.

They should do garage heaters, space heaters, fridge, etc, anything that outputs heat and can be connected via wifi for example.  that would be cool.  routers are another nice idea. 

                                 
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notlist3d
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December 06, 2015, 09:56:59 PM
 #35

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

You can build it yourself for around $80 with kits that have everything need on amazon and I am sure those folks are making money on the $80.  So 21.co buying and making in bulk probably made these for around $40 each I would imagine.  Of course there is money in marketing and if they were smart they dumped a lot into marketing early to make a fast push to get the early crowd because I think now that people can see having already figured out how awesome it is to own one, but it is no where near $400 they are putting on it.

Now that they have put the target out there you better believe as open source goes you will have developers working around the clock to provide free payments libraries that will run just the same.  In fact if I understand what 21.co offered was just the tools that are already free to everyone else and then it is up to the purchaser to go and develop.  (I could be wrong there)  But I cannot find anywhere on their site where there is an out of the box payment solution that runs right off their node.  If there is, then my goof and and I missed it, but like I said there are going to be several solutions,  very soon and by soon I bet within weeks for people to start using.  Then you will have the opportunity for people to build payment stations (just like credit card machines but without the banks) such as what 21.co is doing but at a fraction of the cost. 

I think they had a great idea but came out of the gate way too greedy.

Their idea I tought was putting asics in everyday items.   So they did not really follow their idea in my mind.  Come out with a special RPI.... that is really not the same as putting into everyday item.

I still think it's just so when they go to investors they can say they no have a item out there using their chips.  I don't think this item was meant to sell lots, but much more limited sales.

They should do garage heaters, space heaters, fridge, etc, anything that outputs heat and can be connected via wifi for example.  that would be cool.  routers are another nice idea. 

That's what they made it sound like and all they really did was a RPI topper... so not a everyday item mod.  And on router bitmain beat them to it... so not as fun being 2nd to do it.

I would love a lightbulb doing it since bitfury never did sell those.  But they could have done it so much better in a different item.   But they choose to just get a product out there at a rediclous price.
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December 07, 2015, 04:59:46 AM
 #36

My only complaint with it is that I'm going to have to find someone to help me code for it.  I'm not a python programmer and well, don't feel like learning a new language at the moment.  I think they're going to build up a type of "app store" for it, but I'm looking to do something unique with it.



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December 09, 2015, 05:43:21 AM
 #37

Did you happen to make a backup of image before doing this?  It looks like possibly a RPI under the hood so I'm sure lots of us would love to play with the firmware.
It is precisely an Raspberry Pi 2 Model B powering everything. The only thing that 21 actually made was the shield on top which does the mining and the additional custom software to run that miner and do whatever they advertise the thing to do.

That's exactly what it is and it cost less than $40 to mass produce.  They probably spent more on marketing realizing that they needed to make their first catch their big catch because after that the word would get out fast that this is nothing more than $80 of parts with a bunch of hype.  You can buy this kit on Amazon for $60, another $20 for for a flash drive for the block chain and that's about it.  I mean its cool and all, but at $400 I would be sending it back building one for a 1/5 of the price. 
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December 09, 2015, 06:03:15 AM
 #38

Did you happen to make a backup of image before doing this?  It looks like possibly a RPI under the hood so I'm sure lots of us would love to play with the firmware.
It is precisely an Raspberry Pi 2 Model B powering everything. The only thing that 21 actually made was the shield on top which does the mining and the additional custom software to run that miner and do whatever they advertise the thing to do.

That's exactly what it is and it cost less than $40 to mass produce.  They probably spent more on marketing realizing that they needed to make their first catch their big catch because after that the word would get out fast that this is nothing more than $80 of parts with a bunch of hype.  You can buy this kit on Amazon for $60, another $20 for for a flash drive for the block chain and that's about it.  I mean its cool and all, but at $400 I would be sending it back building one for a 1/5 of the price.  

I don't know if I would consider it money spent on marketing.  In this case I think it was more PR for investors.  I still think main objective so far was to prove they can make chips, and release a product.  This they can now say to investors... which sounds a lot more impressive then we have a design or porotype.

Their goal was not to sell the product I still don't think.  They priced it where they knew a few fish bite but they really don't have a big production problem when a very few sell.

From what I've seen others do have some of the software from these and played with it which is surprising they did not lock it down or try to lock it down since part of their pitch was the software.    
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December 09, 2015, 07:30:29 AM
 #39

What do you think it costs 21.co to produce that thing? Has to be under $200. Not a bad profit margin.

You can build it yourself for around $80 with kits that have everything need on amazon and I am sure those folks are making money on the $80.  So 21.co buying and making in bulk probably made these for around $40 each I would imagine.  Of course there is money in marketing and if they were smart they dumped a lot into marketing early to make a fast push to get the early crowd because I think now that people can see having already figured out how awesome it is to own one, but it is no where near $400 they are putting on it.

Now that they have put the target out there you better believe as open source goes you will have developers working around the clock to provide free payments libraries that will run just the same.  In fact if I understand what 21.co offered was just the tools that are already free to everyone else and then it is up to the purchaser to go and develop.  (I could be wrong there)  But I cannot find anywhere on their site where there is an out of the box payment solution that runs right off their node.  If there is, then my goof and and I missed it, but like I said there are going to be several solutions,  very soon and by soon I bet within weeks for people to start using.  Then you will have the opportunity for people to build payment stations (just like credit card machines but without the banks) such as what 21.co is doing but at a fraction of the cost. 

I think they had a great idea but came out of the gate way too greedy.

Their idea I tought was putting asics in everyday items.   So they did not really follow their idea in my mind.  Come out with a special RPI.... that is really not the same as putting into everyday item.

I still think it's just so when they go to investors they can say they no have a item out there using their chips.  I don't think this item was meant to sell lots, but much more limited sales.

They should do garage heaters, space heaters, fridge, etc, anything that outputs heat and can be connected via wifi for example.  that would be cool.  routers are another nice idea. 

Didn't 21.co buy a company or had some sort of merger before the release? Or I must be doing crack.

But since they have the tech, I would love to see a competitive miner instead of a lightbulb or something. One that isn't 400 and runs on top of a cheap RPI.

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