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Author Topic: [BTC-TC] Virtual Community Exchange [CLOSED]  (Read 315984 times)
radiumsoup
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August 26, 2013, 08:57:10 PM
 #1801

hey, I have a question about how IPOs are handled... does the issuer have access to funds as they come in, or is there some lockout period where they don't get any funds until they reach their contractual threshold for a "successful" IPO?

Specifically, I'm looking at the recent HOSTED-MINING security - it looks to me like they're not going to reach their "success" mark, and I'm wondering if there's any safeguard to ensure they don't just walk away with whatever they do raise instead of refunding like they proposed in their contract. (Because hell - if it's a risk-free proposition to me if they don't make their goal and I can be assured that it's not possible for them to run with it, it might just be worth throwing them a bone to see if they can get their hardware purchase done.)

PGP fingerprint:   0x85beeabd110803b93d408b502d39b8875b282f86
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burnside
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August 27, 2013, 06:43:26 AM
 #1802

I think I got the issue with having to log in before seeing the market page mitigated somewhat.

Killed two birds with one stone.  Wink  The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.

I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security.

Cheers.

burnside
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August 27, 2013, 06:45:36 AM
 #1803

hey, I have a question about how IPOs are handled... does the issuer have access to funds as they come in, or is there some lockout period where they don't get any funds until they reach their contractual threshold for a "successful" IPO?

Specifically, I'm looking at the recent HOSTED-MINING security - it looks to me like they're not going to reach their "success" mark, and I'm wondering if there's any safeguard to ensure they don't just walk away with whatever they do raise instead of refunding like they proposed in their contract. (Because hell - if it's a risk-free proposition to me if they don't make their goal and I can be assured that it's not possible for them to run with it, it might just be worth throwing them a bone to see if they can get their hardware purchase done.)

There is no built-in lock until the account reaches XX bitcoins sort of thing.  If you do not feel like you can trust them, do not participate in their asset.

Cheers.
ThickAsThieves
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August 27, 2013, 07:38:54 AM
Last edit: August 27, 2013, 07:49:19 AM by ThickAsThieves
 #1804

I think I got the issue with having to log in before seeing the market page mitigated somewhat.

Killed two birds with one stone.  Wink  The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.

I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security.

Cheers.



This is asinine, did a lawyer really advise you to do this?

EDIT: Isn't this fraud on your part? Claiming the site is something other than what we all know it is (and have proof of you admitting).

EDIT: Where do I get credits to play this game? Can you fill my account? 5000btc would be good to start!
burnside
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August 27, 2013, 08:06:20 AM
 #1805

I think I got the issue with having to log in before seeing the market page mitigated somewhat.

Killed two birds with one stone.  Wink  The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.

I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security.

Cheers.



This is asinine, did a lawyer really advise you to do this?

EDIT: Isn't this fraud on your part? Claiming the site is something other than what we all know it is (and have proof of you admitting).

EDIT: Where do I get credits to play this game? Can you fill my account? 5000btc would be good to start!

Something tells me you skipped the ToS when you registered?

Quote
By registering, you acknowledge that you have read the above Terms of Service and you agree to the Terms of Service.

...

{I Agree, Register Me!}

It hasn't changed significantly since Dec 2012 when the site rolled out.

I knew not everyone would like the periodic reminder.   Undecided

Your reaction pretty much proves the necessity behind it though.


Edit/Add: We'll be making recommended changes from our legal team gradually over the next several months.  This change did not come from them.  This change was because non-users were viewing the market and/or assets before having read the ToS and thus people were getting misled.
torbank
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August 27, 2013, 09:21:50 AM
 #1806

Pretty sure that "Nothing is verified. Everything is virtual." has been there for a while...
pascal257
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August 27, 2013, 09:29:35 AM
 #1807

The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.
Could you please add a redirect to the initially browsed paged, after accepting the ToS?
freedomno1
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August 27, 2013, 09:50:00 AM
 #1808

I was wondering why when I logged in I got the Terms of Service
Read that ages ago  Wink
Even the convo and court case thread Tongue
I'll see you next month TOA lol
btcash
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August 27, 2013, 10:11:18 AM
 #1809

Really don't like the latest changes.

Quote
The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.
This will not stop the S.E.C and it makes BTCTC look bad. It sounds like you endorse scamming because is all just a game and fun.

I think it is time to drop the educational/game act.
drawingthesun
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August 27, 2013, 10:20:35 AM
 #1810

This is not good for the long term survival of BTC-TC.

This is as bad as Coinlenders fee rebates.

Good luck presenting to a court that this is play money when millions of dollars worth of this "fake money" pass through the site everyday. Also the US Government is not stupid and is already seeing Bitcoin as a real commodity and perhaps currency.

Did BTC-TC even consult with a lawyer about this? Burnside, I hope you know the law, if not get a lawyer.

VolanicEruptor
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August 27, 2013, 10:47:39 AM
 #1811

I've never seen such a poor interpretation and use of the word "fraud" in my entire life.  Thanks TAT!!

thy
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August 27, 2013, 01:14:23 PM
 #1812

This is clearly an error that you need to change the wording on Burnside:
".... Your participation here is not without risk. You will lose some or all of your BTC deposited here. Only deposit here what you are willing to lose. ....".
I'm pretty sure you don't mean you garantee people will lose some or all there BTC, but rather that you want to make it clear to people that they may lose some or all there BTC they deposite....

ThickAsThieves
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August 27, 2013, 01:23:21 PM
 #1813

I think I got the issue with having to log in before seeing the market page mitigated somewhat.

Killed two birds with one stone.  Wink  The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.

I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security.

Cheers.

This is asinine, did a lawyer really advise you to do this?

EDIT: Isn't this fraud on your part? Claiming the site is something other than what we all know it is (and have proof of you admitting).

EDIT: Where do I get credits to play this game? Can you fill my account? 5000btc would be good to start!

Something tells me you skipped the ToS when you registered?

Quote
By registering, you acknowledge that you have read the above Terms of Service and you agree to the Terms of Service.

...

{I Agree, Register Me!}

It hasn't changed significantly since Dec 2012 when the site rolled out.

I knew not everyone would like the periodic reminder.   Undecided

Your reaction pretty much proves the necessity behind it though.


Edit/Add: We'll be making recommended changes from our legal team gradually over the next several months.  This change did not come from them.  This change was because non-users were viewing the market and/or assets before having read the ToS and thus people were getting misled.


My issue is with you asserting your ToS with a comment like "this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun", yet acknowledging it's utter falsehood while admitting "I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security."

The reason people won't like it is because they are watching you lie in order to feel some false sense of protection, and in order to continue making money from your operations. This is fraud by nature.

If this is a game, does that make LTC-GLOBAL shares part of the game or ownership of the games? If LTC-GLOBAL shares are a game, then what is your explanation for extracting game revenue in order to pay for real world expenses like hosting and lawyers?

Is this a game we must pay to participate in, being that bitcoins are a currency and/or commodity and acknowledged as such by most governments that come around to noticing it exists?

If this is a game and virtual, are you implying that your issuers are liars when they claim otherwise?

Do you not have real-world arrangements and holdings with entities like ASICMINER to properly back your ASICMINER-PT "game"?

My disdain is not coming from ignorance of your ToS prior to this, it is from the disappointment that you have made no progress toward greater legitimacy, and that you are willing to actively lie (or behave delusionally at best...) to maintain your backward position.

I have great respect for what you have accomplished as a bitcoin stock exchange, and there is great potential for what you could parlay this site into in the future, but it is obvious you don't see it that way. Your approach precludes that. It operates under the assumption that you believe you can only continue to operate for as long as you can fly under the radar, and as long as your users are willing to look the other way at your "pretend" exchange.

What is the endgame here?

If you want to assert the claims in your ToS, rather than evolve them, I assume you are ready to own that position. Think about it and let us know, because maybe you have some real users, wanting to make real investments elsewhere. Maybe this whole bitcoin thing wants to be real, and wants to grow up without you.

EDIT:

Just got off the phone with a SEC specialist. He said that the SEC is looking into Bitcoin security exchanges, and if they are unregistered and offering unlicensed securities then they are violating the law and has advised me to not invest. I asked him about if being virtual and for educational purposes covers it and he said he cannot say.

Oh and he asked me if I have lost any money in anything Ethan Burnside offered, I take that as burnside here

If you don't believe me ask them here https://tts.sec.gov/oiea/QuestionsAndComments.html they called me back.

I feel a bit like I'm feeding a troll here, as what you state above is obvious.  Everyone knew why the GLBSE shut down when it did.  An investigation was started and they were running a fractional reserve.  (a scam)

The people at the SEC are trying to do their job, protecting the masses from scammers.  I applaud their efforts.  Life in the US would suck horribly if they didn't keep at least some of the scammers at bay.  (Pirate...)

"Securities" I've offered:

LTC-GLOBAL (depositary receipt to Belize company, sub 1.5 mil valuation sold, fraction of that in the US)
LTC-MINING (mining contract, sub 1.5 mil valuation sold)
LTC-MINING.LTC (mining contract, sub 1.5 mil valuation sold, closed)
ASICMINER-PT  (depositary receipt to Chinese company)

All offers were made prior to FinCEN guidance regarding Bitcoin, were made in good faith, and were intended exactly as stated on the site -- to be traded as an educational and entertaining exercise.  Oddly enough, were I to willy-nilly shut them down now, I can be almost certain that some people WOULD hold me responsible for their losses.  Thus the FinCEN guidance puts me in a catch-22 with the SEC and there are lawyers working on figuring this out.  However, if you have lost USD on any of these;

    (a) YOU lost your USD when you converted it to Bitcoin and you did it without my help.  The site does not accept USD, deal in USD, have a USD bank account, or anything USD of the sort.  If you're looking at things in terms of USD here, you're in the wrong place.
    (b) S_it happens on occasion, see the charts for NASDAQ/NYSE circa 2007, 2008.  
    (c) S_it that did happen is NOT because of any fraud, manipulation, or scamming on my part or on the part of the exchange.

The site goes out of it's way to make sure everyone is fully aware of the risk involved, and everyone agreed at registration to the terms, indicating that they knew the risks.

That said... please, please, please be careful regarding other assets and issuers.  Nothing is verified.  Do your own research, make your own decisions, OWN those decisions, and for the sake of your own well being, please do not risk more than you can afford to lose.

Cheers.


For reference

Quote
Public Beta - Terms of Service
We will do everything in our power to protect you and your virtual goods. However, beyond the content of our cold wallet, the exchange is NOT responsible for ANY bad things that happen to you, your securities, your BTC.
Full Release - Terms of Service
Definitions

BTC-TC, btct.co, BTC Trading Corp, The Corporation - A Belize company operating a website for the purposes of education and entertainment via trading of digital virtual commodities. The Corporation has zero legal tender exposure in any jurisdiction.

฿, BTC - A digital cryptographic virtual commodity. Traded on the internet. Not recognized as legal tender in any jurisdiction. Frequently used as "online gaming tokens".

Digital Stock, BTC Stock, Virtual Stock, Stock - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

Digital Bond, BTC Bond, Virtual Bond, Bond - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not to be recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

Digital Fund, BTC Fund, Virtual Fund, Fund - A digital virtual commodity, traded within this website. Not to be recognized as a real legal security in any jurisdiction.

Disclosure Statement

BTC Trading Corp Stock Exchange (BTC-TC) is a fictional stock market simulation operating for entertainment and educational purposes only.

To be very clear, BTC-TC is not a real-world stock exchange and does not offer opportunity for direct real-world investment or profit. While we fully expect listed virtual companies to follow through with their virtual business plans, please KEEP IN MIND AT ALL TIMES -- shares purchased on this stock exchange simulation do not entitle you to legal real-world rights to a listed virtual company as you would expect from a real company.

BTC-TC operates via our website which acts as a clearinghouse for the trading of BTC-TC listed "Securities". The underlying companies are virtual and none of the companies offer "registered" investment quality securities for sale in any form whatsoever. BTC used to purchase virtual stock here are in essence being transferred to the ownership of the person you are buying the virtual shares from, and not BTC-TC. All stock and shares purchased are for purely entertainment only, and not considered part/whole ownership in any legal entity or real life company.

The terms "profit" and "earnings" as used within the context of the website, and any claim of monetary value therein, relates solely and specifically to the valuation of BTC within our virtual economic ecosystem.

The BTC "currency" is a virtual computer generated currency, not redeemable for monetary value from BTC-TC.

BTC-TC offers no direct opportunity for conversion of (BTC) to legal tender currencies including USD, CAD, GBP, EUR, etc.

Notwithstanding the warnings herein, BTC-TC as designed and offered is a serious stock exchange simulation. The participants here “play for keeps” and their time and BTC-based holdings represent a considerable investment in our community.

Your participation here is not without risk. You could lose some or all of your BTC invested here. Only invest here what you are willing to lose.

There are additional policies, rules and Terms of Service for participation as published and amended from time-to-time. Please review and fully understand them before trading.

Finally, the operators of BTC-TC make no representation of any kind regarding the accuracy, fitness for purpose, or use of the software residing on this website. Your use of the software in any manner whatsoever shall constitute an understanding and acceptance of this Disclosure Statement in its entirety. The individuals who operate the software residing on this website offer no warranty and offer no remedies whatsoever for its use or consequence. You play this stock simulation at your own risk.

Terms of Service

BTC Trading Corp Stock Exchange (herein and commonly referred to as "BTC-TC" or "btct.co") is a fictional stock market simulation residing at http://www.btct.co ("website") and is owned and operated by the "Shareholders" (A loosely knit group of litecoin.net forum members) of BTC-TC.

Through the website, BTC-TC allows registered users to access and use services that we offer related to virtual online environments, including but not limited to, providing a "marketplace" for trading "Stocks" that represent fractional ownership interests in "publicly-traded" virtual Corporations (fictional or otherwise) that also do business related to virtual online environments typically either via our website, or via a website of their own design, or via online forums, etc. All of the foregoing services described herein are referred to collectively as the "Services". This document, (herein the "Terms of Service" or "Agreement"), is a binding legal agreement between you and BTC-TC and it applies to you whether you are a "Registered User", "Visitor" or "Member Company".

A "Registered User" is a registered user of the website or Services and may be recognized as either a "Buyer" (one who initiates a Stock purchase) or a "Seller" (one who has offered Stock Certificates for Sale via BTC-TC). Registered Users are commonly called "investors" on the website.

A "Visitor" is a person that accesses the website or Services but is not registered with BTC-TC. Visitors are permitted to view but may not post or edit our content, or participate in the market.

A "Member Company" is any entity (fictional or otherwise) whose "stock" is "traded" on the BTC-TC stock market simulation.
This Agreement limits BTC-TC liability and obligations to you and allows us to change, suspend or terminate your access to and use of the website, Services and your BTC-TC account.

We urge you to carefully read the Terms and Conditions of this Agreement and all other policies and disclosure statements referenced here or elsewhere on the website. Such policies are incorporated into this Agreement by reference and collectively form part of this Agreement.

YOU UNDERSTAND THAT BY USING THE WEBSITE (INCLUDING ANY CONTENT PROVIDED THEREIN), OR BY USING ANY OTHER SERVICES PROVIDED VIA YOUR BTC-TC ACCOUNT, OR BY POSTING ANY CONTENT ON THE WEBSITE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THIS AGREEMENT IN ITS ENTIRETY, YOU MAY NOT ACCESS OR USE THE WEBSITE OR ANY OTHER BTC-TC SERVICES.

IF YOU AGREE TO THIS AGREEMENT ON BEHALF OF A BUSINESS, YOU REPRESENT AND WARRANT THAT YOU HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO BIND THAT BUSINESS TO THIS AGREEMENT AND YOUR AGREEMENT TO THESE TERMS WILL BE TREATED AS THE AGREEMENT OF THE BUSINESS. IN THAT EVENT, "YOU" AND "YOUR" REFER HEREIN TO THAT BUSINESS.

Eligibility of Use

A)   To be an BTC-TC User, use the website, Services and have an BTC-TC account, you must be at least eighteen (18) years old. The website and Services are a platform through which BTC-TC Users can enhance their virtual online environment experience and through which BTC-TC Registered Users can trade virtual goods and services, including but not limited to the "purchase" or "sale" of "publicly-traded" “Virtual Corporation Stock.”

B)   BTC-TC is not a party to any relationship or separate agreement entered into between BTC-TC Users and disclaims any and all liability relating thereto. For example, BTC-TC is not a party to the transactions between BTC-TC Members for the sale or purchase of virtual goods or services including Stock Certificates via the website but rather acts as a non-fiduciary third-party intermediary between transaction counter-parties.

C)   BTC-TC Members are not employees, agents or contractors of BTC-TC. The website, Services and access to an BTC-TC account are not available to temporarily or indefinitely suspended BTC-TC Members. You are responsible for all equipment necessary to use the website and Services.

Registration and Setup of an BTC-TC Account

A)   When you register with BTC-TC and set up your BTC-TC account, you must provide BTC-TC with accurate and complete information. You agree to promptly update your BTC-TC account information with any new information that may affect the operation of your BTC-TC account. You will be required to verify any email address that you wish to use on the website or Services, and your initial BTC-TC registration will not be complete until you have verified at least one email address. Please see the "FAQs" (Frequently Asked Questions) section of the BTC-TC website for further information on the email verification process. You authorize BTC-TC directly or through third parties, to make any inquiries we consider necessary or appropriate to verify your email address or validate your BTC-TC account information.

B)   You will not use false identities or impersonate any other person or use a username, email address, or password that you are not authorized to use. We encourage you to read and thoroughly consider our privacy policy for information about our policies and procedures regarding the collection, use and disclosure of information we receive from BTC-TC Users.

C)   You are responsible for safeguarding and maintaining the confidentiality of your username, password and corresponding BTC-TC account information. You agree not to disclose your password to anyone. You agree that you are entirely and solely responsible for any and all activities or actions that occur under your BTC-TC account, whether or not you have authorized such activities or actions. You agree to immediately notify BTC-TC of any unauthorized use of your username, password or BTC-TC account.

Termination, Suspension of Services, and Modification of this Agreement

A)   BTC-TC reserve the right in its sole discretion, at any time, to modify, discontinue or terminate the website or Services or to modify or terminate this Agreement without prior notice. All modified terms and conditions will be effective immediately upon posting on the website. If any modification is not acceptable to you, your only recourse is to cease using the website and Services. By continuing to use the website or Services following any posting of a new Agreement or policies on the website, you accept and agree to be bound by the new Agreement or policies.

B)   Without limiting other remedies, BTC-TC may at any time suspend or terminate your BTC-TC account and refuse to provide access to the website or Services and suspend your ability to buy or sell using the website or Services without reason or notice to you. Such termination or suspension amounts to a termination of this Agreement by BTC-TC. In addition, BTC-TC may notify authorities or take any actions it deems appropriate, without notice to you, if BTC-TC suspects or determines, in its own discretion, that you may have or there is a significant risk that you have failed to comply with any provision of this Agreement or any other policies or rules established by BTC-TC; or engaged in actions relating to or in the course of using the website or Service that may be illegal or cause liability, harm, embarrassment, harassment, abuse or disruption for you, other BTC-TC Users, BTC-TC or any other third parties of the website or Services. You may stop using the website or Services at any time. Subject to the terms and conditions herein, any Comments (defined below) may remain on the website or within the Services even if you terminate your BTC-TC account.

C)   Any suspension, termination or cancellation will not affect your obligations to BTC-TC under this Agreement (including, but not limited to, proprietary rights and ownership, indemnification and limitation of liability), which by their sense and context are intended to survive such suspension, termination or cancellation.

Intellectual Property, Proprietary Content and Ownership Rights

A)   Certain types of content are made available through the website and Services. "BTC-TC Content" used in this Agreement means, collectively, the text, data, graphics, images, BTC-TC trademarks and logos and content made available through the website and Services, excluding User Submissions. "User Submissions" as used in this Agreement means, collectively, the text, data, communications, messages, graphics, images, photos, video files and other content and information which BTC-TC Members post, upload and otherwise submit to the website or Services.

B)   BTC-TC RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REMOVE AND PERMANENTLY DELETE ANY BTC-TC CONTENT OR USER SUBMISSIONS FROM THE WEBSITE OR SERVICES WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE THAT ARE DEEMED ILLEGAL OR INAPPROPRIATE.

C)   You will not remove, alter or conceal any copyright, trademark, service mark or other proprietary rights notices incorporated in or accompanying the website, Services, BTC-TC Content, User Submissions or related products and services and you will not reproduce, modify, adapt, prepare derivative works based on, perform, display, publish, distribute, transmit, broadcast, sell, license or otherwise exploit the website, Services, BTC-TC Content or User Submissions (other than your own User Submissions). BTC-TC and its licensors own all right, title and interest, including all worldwide intellectual property rights in the website, Services and BTC-TC Content contained therein, other than your own User Submission.

D)   User Submissions-License Grant. BTC-TC does not claim ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by uploading, posting, submitting or otherwise transmitting any User Submission on or to the website or Services, you hereby grant to BTC-TC a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, sub licensable, perpetual and irrevocable right and license to use and exploit (e.g. crop and resize) your User Submissions as necessary to provide you with the Services. You represent and warrant that you own or have the necessary licenses, rights, consents and permissions to grant the foregoing licenses to BTC-TC.

E)   User Submissions-Limitations. You acknowledge and agree that BTC-TC may, at its option, recategorize any User Submission and establish limits concerning User Submissions, including, without limitation, the maximum number of days that User Submissions will remain available via the Services or on the website, the maximum size of any files that may be stored on or uploaded to the website or Services and the maximum disk space that will be allotted to you for the storage of User Submissions on BTC-TC’s servers. BTC-TC will have no responsibility or liability for maintaining copies of User Submissions on our servers, and you are solely responsible for creating back-ups of your User Submissions.

F)   User Submissions-Disclaimer. BTC-TC does not have any obligation to monitor the User Submissions that are uploaded, posted, submitted or otherwise transmitted using the website or Services, for any purpose and, as a result, is not responsible for the accuracy, completeness, appropriateness, legality or applicability of the User Submissions or anything said, depicted or written by BTC-TC Members, including, without limitation, any information obtained by using the website or Services. BTC-TC does not endorse any User Submission or any opinion, recommendation or advice expressed therein and you agree to waive, and hereby do waive, any legal or equitable rights or remedies you have or may have against BTC-TC with respect thereto.

"Buying", "Selling", "Trades", BTC-TC "Fees"

A)   At present, simply visiting the BTC-TC website and reviewing its content is free of charge, however, BTC-TC, does charge virtual fees to BTC-TC Registered Users for various transactional privileges including but not limited to "buying", "selling", or "trading" "stock certificates or shares" via the BTC-TC stock market simulation. BTC-TC also charges virtual fees and/or assesses virtual fines to BTC-TC "Member Companies" for privileges and Services, and other activities including but not limited to "underwriting", "compliance", "auditing", "Initial Public Offerings (IPO’s)", etc. We reserve the right to initiate charges for use of the website, to amend or modify BTC-TC pricing policies or Services at any time without prior notice, however, where practical and at BTC-TC’s sole discretion, will generally provide (30) days advance notice of the introduction of any new charges, changes to our current pricing policies, or modifications of our fee structures as published and amended from time-to-time on the BTC-TC website.

B)   Sellers generally set their own prices and all prices are subject to change at the Seller's sole discretion. As a Seller you hereby authorize BTC-TC to collect the amounts due from "Buyer(s)" for each transaction you initiate. You authorize us to deduct any transactional fees or commissions "earned" thereof by BTC-TC including Agent or Affiliate Commissions pursuant to our fee shcedules, and deposit any remainder into your BTC-TC account.

C)   Buyers. As a Buyer you hereby authorize BTC-TC to withdraw fees from your BTC-TC account and deposit them into the BTC-TC account of the relevant Seller. You must already have sufficient BTC on deposit in your BTC-TC account to complete a transaction with a Seller.

D)   You are solely responsible for all costs incurred by you in using the website and Services. BTC-TC is not responsible for issuing refunds relating to transactions between BTC-TC members.

E)   BTC-TC will not provide refunds in any circumstances and does not provide any customer support for goods or services sold or purchased through the website or services. If you have a problem as a result of a purchase you should contact the seller.

Obligations of BTC-TC Registered Users, Member Companies and Interactions Between Buyers and Sellers

As an BTC-TC Registered User, Visitor or member Company, you acknowledge and agree to the following:

A)   The website and Services are merely a platform through which BTC-TC Users can enhance their virtual online environment experience and through which BTC-TC Registered Users can buy and sell virtual goods and services.

B)   BTC-TC is not responsible for the use or exchange of any information, files, goods or services between BTC-TC Registered Users and/or Member Companies. BTC-TC does not refer, endorse, recommend, warrant or guarantee any virtual goods or services provided or offered by Sellers or any specific Seller and nothing will be considered as a referral, endorsement, recommendation, warranty or guarantee of the foregoing by BTC-TC, and does not generally review or officially nor effectively police statements made by BTC-TC Registered Users and/or Member Companies in their User Submissions or the User Submissions in general.

C)   BTC-TC does not generally make editorial or managerial decisions concerning any User Submissions, nor will BTC-TC be responsible for any Seller's failure to comply with his or her obligations or any laws or regulations concerning the content of his or her Listings. BTC-TC does not control, nor is it responsible for, the truth, accuracy, completeness, safety, timeliness, quality, appropriateness, legality or applicability of anything said or written by BTC-TC Registered Users and/or Member Companies, including, without limitation, any information contained in a User Submission (including any Forum Posting, News Article, Prospectus or Business Plan).

D)   BTC-TC reserves the right to contact BTC-TC Registered Users, Member Companies or any other parties, in compliance with applicable law, in order to evaluate compliance with the rules and policies of this Agreement.

E)   You will cooperate fully with BTC-TC to investigate any suspected unlawful, fraudulent or improper activity, including, without limitation, granting authorized BTC-TC representatives access to any password-protected portions of your BTC-TC account.

F)   You are solely responsible for your interactions (including any disputes) with other BTC-TC Users. You understand that BTC-TC does not in any way screen BTC-TC Users. You are solely responsible for, and will exercise caution, discretion, common sense and judgment in, using the website and Services and disclosing personal information to other BTC-TC Members.

G)   You agree to take reasonable precautions in all interactions with other BTC-TC Users, particularly if you decide to meet an BTC-TC User offline, online, or in person. Your use of the website, Services, BTC-TC Content and User Submissions is at your sole risk and discretion and BTC-TC hereby disclaims any and all liability to you or any third party relating thereto.

H)   You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit any User Submission: (i) that you do not have the lawful right to use, copy, distribute, transmit, display or sell; (ii) that infringes the intellectual property rights or violates the privacy rights of any third party (including, without limitation, copyright, trademark, patent, trade secret, or other intellectual property right, or moral right or right of publicity); or (iii) that is inaccurately described and misrepresents the virtual good or service you are advertising.

I)   You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit, via the website or Services, any User Submissions (including screen names) that: (i) are unlawful, harmful, threatening, harassing, defamatory or hateful; (ii) contain objects or symbols of hate, invade the privacy of any third party; or (iii) are deceptive, threatening, abusive, inciting of unlawful action, defamatory, libelous, constitute hate speech. BTC-TC reserves the right to delete or remove any User Submissions that are otherwise objectionable in the sole discretion or opinion of BTC-TC.

J)   You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit any User Submissions that contain software viruses or any other computer code, files, or programs designed to: (i) harm, interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer, computer software or system; or (ii) interfere with the access of any BTC-TC User, host or network, including, without limitation, sending a virus, overloading, flooding, spamming or mail-bombing the website.

K)   You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit any User Submissions that include code that is hidden or otherwise surreptitiously contained within the images, audio or video of any User Submissions that is unrelated to the immediate, aesthetic nature of the User Submissions.

L)   You will not take any actions which may undermine the comment system used to solicit Comments (defined below) from BTC-TC Users, including, without limitation, leaving Comments for yourself or other BTC-TC Users using secondary names or creating fake accounts to do any of the foregoing;

1)   You will not impersonate or misrepresent your affiliation with any person or entity, through pretexting or some other form of social engineering or otherwise commit fraud.

2)   You will not use the website or Services to provide any product or services claiming success with or offering information regarding lottery numbers or for purposes of multi-level marketing proposals (for example, offering to help participants "get rich quickly" or "make money surfing the Web") or use the website or Services to promote bonus items, giveaways, random drawings, prizes, contests or games of chance.

3)   You will not collect or store personal information about other BTC-TC Members without their express permission.

4)   You will not encourage or instruct any other individual to do any of the foregoing or to violate any term of this Agreement.

M)   BTC-TC DOES NOT PERMIT THE UPLOADING OF ANY "MATURE", "ADULT" OR "PORNOGRAPHIC" CONTENT WHATSOVER. "Mature" as used in this Agreement means content that contains nudity, violence or is sexually explicit in nature. You will not upload, post, submit or otherwise transmit, via the website or Services, any User Submissions that: (i) contain content related to bestiality, rape, incest, sex with graphic violence or degradation; or (ii) constitute child pornography or child erotica. If BTC-TC finds User Submissions that it determines, in its sole discretion, violate this section, BTC-TC may, without notice, remove or block access to such User Submissions.

N)   BTC-TC reserves the right to suspend or cancel at any time and without notice any BTC-TC account that BTC-TC in its sole discretion, determines to be in violation of this or any other section. BTC-TC will take all appropriate steps with User Submissions that BTC-TC believes violate applicable laws, including cooperation with any investigation. If you see a User Submission that you believe is in violation of law or this section, please contact BTC-TC immediately.

Obligations of BTC-TC Users

A)   The website and Services may be used and accessed for lawful purposes only. You agree to abide by all applicable local, state, national and foreign laws, treaties and regulations in connection with your use of the website and Services. In addition, without limitation, you agree that you will not do any of the following while using or accessing the website or Services:

1)   Circumvent, disable or otherwise interfere with security-related features of the website or features that prevent or restrict use or copying of any BTC-TC Content.

2)   Use any metatags or other hidden text or metadata utilizing an BTC-TC name, trademark, URL or product or service name.

3)   Forge any TCP/IP packet header or any part of the header information in any posting or in any way use the website or Services to send altered, deceptive or false source-identifying information.

4)   Interfere with, harm or disrupt (or attempt to interfere with, harm or disrupt) any web pages available at the website, servers or networks connected to the website, Services or the technical delivery systems of BTC-TC providers or disobey any requirements, procedures, policies or regulations of networks connected to the website or Services.

5)   Attempt to probe, scan or test the vulnerability of any BTC-TC system network or breach or impair or circumvent any security or authentication measures protecting the website or Services, attempt to gain unauthorized access to any BTC-TC account information, computer systems or networks associated with the website or Services or attempt to obtain any information or materials relating to the website or Services through any means not intentionally made available by BTC-TC through the website or Services.

6)   Attempt to decipher, decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer any of the software used to provide the website or Services.

7)   Attempt to access, search or meta-search the website or harvest data or Listings from the website with any engine, software, tool, agent, device, robot, crawler or mechanism other than software and/or search agents provided by BTC-TC or other generally available third party web browsers (such as Microsoft Internet Explorer, Mozilla Firefox, Safari, or Opera), including, without limitation, any software that sends queries to the website to determine how a website or web page ranks, without giving notice to end users that the source of the data is the BTC-TC (or the website) and providing credit thereto.

Cool   Use the website or Services in any manner not permitted by this Agreement.

9)   Encourage or instruct any other individual to do any of the foregoing or to violate any term of this Agreement.

Comments and Feedback

A)   You may leave feedback and make comments about your experience with an BTC-TC Member with whom you have interacted ("Comments").

B)   BTC-TC advises you to exercise caution and good judgment when leaving such Comments. Once you complete and submit your Comments to the website or Services you may not be able to go back and edit your Comments. You should also be aware that you could be held legally responsible for damages to someone's reputation if your Comments are deemed to be defamatory. Generally, BTC-TC does not monitor or censor Comments that are provided by BTC-TC Users unless and disclaims any and all liability relating thereto. Comments and complaints should be done privately and not in the public Forums.

C)   Notwithstanding the foregoing, BTC-TC does reserve the right, in its sole discretion, to remove any Comments that it deems to be improper, inappropriate or inconsistent with the online activities that are permitted under this Agreement.

D)   Feedback. We welcome and encourage you to provide feedback, comments and suggestions for improvements to the website and Services ("Feedback"). You may submit Feedback by contacting us through the "Customer Support" section of the website.

E)   You acknowledge and agree that all Comments and all Feedback will be the sole and exclusive property of BTC-TC. You hereby assign and agree to assign all rights, title and interest you have in such Comments and Feedback to BTC-TC together with all intellectual property rights therein.

Copyrighted Materials

No Infringing Use. You will not use the website or Services to offer, display, distribute, transmit, route, provide connections to or store any material that infringes copyrighted works or otherwise violates or promotes the violation of the intellectual property rights of any third party. BTC-TC has adopted and implemented a policy that provides for the termination in appropriate circumstances of the accounts of users who repeatedly infringe or are believed to be or are charged with repeatedly infringing the rights of copyright holders. Please see the The BTC-TC IP Policy for further information.

Indemnification

You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold BTC-TC, its officers, directors, employees and agents, harmless from and against any claims, liabilities, damages, losses and expenses, including, without limitation, reasonable attorneys' fees and costs, arising out of or in any way connected with: (i) your access to or use of the website, Services, BTC-TC Content and User Submissions; (ii) your violation of this Agreement; (iii) your violation of any third party right, including without limitation any intellectual property right, publicity, confidentiality, property or privacy right; (iv) any claim that one of your User Submissions caused damage to a third party, including without limitation claims that your User Submissions are infringing; or (v) any claim related to or arising out of your activities In-World.

Disclaimer

THE WEBSITE, SERVICES, BTC-TC CONTENT AND USER SUBMISSIONS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITH NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. BTC-TC EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, REGARDING THE WEBSITE, SERVICES, BTC-TC CONTENT AND USER SUBMISSIONS, REGARDING WHETHER THE SERVICES WILL PRODUCE ANY LEVEL OF PROFIT OR BUSINESS FOR YOU (IN EITHER CASE IN-WORLD OR OTHERWISE) OR LEAD TO ECONOMIC BENEFIT AND REGARDING ALL COMMUNICATIONS MADE THROUGH THE WEBSITE OR SERVICES (INCLUDING THOSE COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN BTC-TC USERS), INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF QUALITY, AVAILABILITY, MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. IN ADDITION, BTC-TC MAKES NO REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY THAT THE WEBSITE OR SERVICES WILL BE ERROR FREE, THAT ANY ERRORS WILL BE CORRECTED OR THAT THE SERVICES WILL WORK IN-WORLD. SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES, SO SOME OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Limitation of Liability

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL BTC-TC BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, SPECIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH USE OF THE WEBSITE, SERVICES, BTC-TC CONTENT AND USER SUBMISSIONS INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, INJURY OR DAMAGES RESULTING FROM THE CONDUCT OF ANY BTC-TC USER, IN-WORLD, ONLINE OR OFFLINE, WHETHER OR NOT BTC-TC HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. WITHOUT LIMITING THE GENERALITY OF THE FOREGOING, BTC-TC’s AGGREGATE LIABILITY TO YOU ARISING WITH RESPECT TO THIS AGREEMENT WILL NOT EXCEED US$50. BTC-TC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES OF ANY INTERRUPTIONS OR ERRORS RELATING TO THE WEBSITE, SERVICES OR THE SCHEDULED OR UNSCHEDULED SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS OF ANY VIRTUAL ONLINE ENVIRONMENT OR MULTI-USER ONLINE SERVICE, SUCH AS SECOND LIFE(R) . SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THE ABOVE LIMITATION AND EXCLUSIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

Force Majeure

BTC-TC will not be liable to you by reason of any failure or delay in the performance of its obligations hereunder on account of events beyond its reasonable control, which may include, without limitation, denial-of-service attacks, strikes, shortages, riots, insurrection, fires, flood, storm, explosions, acts of God, war, terrorism, governmental action, labor conditions, earthquakes, material shortages, extraordinary Internet congestion or extraordinary connectivity issues experienced by major telecommunications providers and unrelated to the BTC-TC infrastructure or connectivity to the Internet or failure at an BTC-TC co-location facility (each a "Force Majeure Event"). Upon the occurrence of a Force Majeure Event, BTC-TC will be excused from any further performance of its obligations effected by the Force Majeure Event for so long as the event continues, and for such further period of time that BTC-TC may reasonably require to recover from the effects of such Force Majeure Event.

Relationship of the Parties

Notwithstanding any provision hereof, for all purposes of this Agreement each party will be independent and act independently and not as a contractor, partner, joint venturer, agent, employee or employer of the other and will not bind nor attempt to bind the other to any contract.

Notice: Consent to Notice

You consent to the use of (a) electronic means to complete this Agreement and to deliver any notices pursuant to this Agreement and (b) electronic records to store information related to this Agreement or your use of the website or Services. Any notice or other communication to be given hereunder will be in writing and given (a) by BTC-TC via email (in each case to the address that you provide), (b) a posting on the website or (c) by you via email to support or to such other addresses as BTC-TC may specify in writing. The date of receipt will be deemed the date on which such notice is transmitted.

Links to Other Websites

The website or Services may provide links to websites other than BTC-TC. Such links are provided for reference only, and BTC-TC neither controls such websites nor endorses any of the material on any such websites or any association with their operators. BTC-TC is not responsible for the activities or such websites, and has no liability to you for any harms, injuries or losses you might suffer as a result of using or accessing such websites.

Miscellaneous

In the event that any provision in this Agreement is held to be invalid or unenforceable, the unenforceable part shall be given effect to the greatest extent permitted by law and the remaining provisions will remain in full force and effect to the maximum extent permitted by law. The failure of a party to enforce any right or provision of this Agreement will not be deemed a waiver of such right or provision. You may not assign this Agreement (by operation of law or otherwise) without the prior written consent of BTC-TC and any prohibited assignment will be null and void. BTC-TC may assign this Agreement or any rights hereunder without your consent. This Agreement will be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of the Cook Islands excluding that body of law pertaining to conflict of laws. Any controversy or claim arising out of or relating to this contract, or the breach of this contract, shall be settled by binding internet arbitration at judge.me in accordance with the judge.me arbitration agreement. The arbitrator's decision shall be final and legally binding and judgment may be entered thereon.

You agree that this Agreement and the rules, restrictions and policies contained herein, and BTC-TC enforcement thereof, are not intended to confer and do not confer any rights or remedies upon any person other than you and BTC-TC.

This Agreement together with the rules and policies of BTC-TC and other Agreements incorporated herein by reference constitutes the entire agreement between BTC-TC and you with respect to the subject matter of this Agreement.
MPOE-PR
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August 27, 2013, 01:42:09 PM
 #1814

I think I got the issue with having to log in before seeing the market page mitigated somewhat.

Killed two birds with one stone.  Wink  The disclosure must now be agreed to before seeing the market or the individual assets.  It's virtually the same disclosure as that in the registration agreement, but this way there's a periodic reminder that participants should only be using the site for education/entertainment/fun.

I know a lot of people out there are not going to like this much, but we have to make sure people are not being tricked or misled into believing anything on the site is a real security.

Cheers.

To make it perfectly clear: BTCT is not a game, BTCT is an opportunistic scam masquerading as a game.

My Credentials  | THE BTC Stock Exchange | I have my very own anthology! | Use bitcointa.lk, it's like this one but better.
radiumsoup
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August 27, 2013, 02:10:03 PM
 #1815

Wow, this just went from splitting hairs to outright accusations of willful lying and an oblique reference to it possibly being fraud (and then something else by someone who is ignored... I can't be bothered to read that self-fellating dribble)

Get over it, we all know what it is, we all know the risks. All he's really doing is making sure people don't just stumble in without getting an eyeful of what the risks actually are. So it's not in perfect legalese in fine print on the back of the monthly paper account statement - so what?

He's said before that he can't afford to go through the KYC hoops of the US regulatory system, which is why it's registered in Belize... knowing that, folks still expect SEC-audit-proof systems and contractual terms that will hold up in US courts?  Huh

And as for the part about Bitcoin growing up without Burnside, he's already said that he's speaking to a "legal team" (whatever that means, to be fair) for advice and future revisions of the ToS in the upcoming months. So it appears he has anticipated your attitudes and has already made plans to revisit the whole thing before the conversation even came up.

Take a breath, everyone. I have a feeling people are getting too used to the idea of things happening at Warp 9 in Bitcoinland, and forget that sometimes people have a day job, too.

PGP fingerprint:   0x85beeabd110803b93d408b502d39b8875b282f86
ThickAsThieves
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August 27, 2013, 02:32:02 PM
 #1816

Wow, this just went from splitting hairs to outright accusations of willful lying and an oblique reference to it possibly being fraud (and then something else by someone who is ignored... I can't be bothered to read that self-fellating dribble)

Get over it, we all know what it is, we all know the risks. All he's really doing is making sure people don't just stumble in without getting an eyeful of what the risks actually are. So it's not in perfect legalese in fine print on the back of the monthly paper account statement - so what?

He's said before that he can't afford to go through the KYC hoops of the US regulatory system, which is why it's registered in Belize... knowing that, folks still expect SEC-audit-proof systems and contractual terms that will hold up in US courts?  Huh

And as for the part about Bitcoin growing up without Burnside, he's already said that he's speaking to a "legal team" (whatever that means, to be fair) for advice and future revisions of the ToS in the upcoming months. So it appears he has anticipated your attitudes and has already made plans to revisit the whole thing before the conversation even came up.

Take a breath, everyone. I have a feeling people are getting too used to the idea of things happening at Warp 9 in Bitcoinland, and forget that sometimes people have a day job, too.

Your perspective is short-sighted, in my opinion.

Yes, it is easier to think and behave how you recommend, but that does not make it healthy or right or smart or necessary.

This is not a question of shoddy legalese, it is calling a duck a spade for the preservation of the duck trade.

He can afford KYC hoops, and there are services that can help with that. Why assume he has made any effort at all in that regard?

No one expects a bitcoin financial service effort to be totally SEC-proof at this point, but the SEC does indeed value good faith efforts to operate within the law. They do not, however, respect deception and the contrary.

Yes, I can acknowledge that legal developments take time, I know this first hand. But I do not see how asserting a false position is wise, nor how a legal team could recommend such.



creativex
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August 27, 2013, 03:34:41 PM
 #1817

...but it *IS* a game. A game with the rules set by US regulators and designed to steal from everyone playing THEIR game. Have you not seen the recent statements from FinCEN? You'd think sha-256 was invented this year...these people are either dumb as rocks or feigning ignorance. Does anyone doubt that if we all jump through DC's hoops that those hoops will then be moved? Why would you think otherwise? Isn't it much more likely that the hoops will be moved and then set ablaze?

The end result of playing this game will be that returns from investments in the crypto economy will be bled until, like their "real" counterparts on the NYSE & Nasdaq, they're below the rate of inflation. Investors will lose, asset issuers will lose, legitimate exchanges will lose, regulators and HFT operators will get bigger boats.

This is a scene from wargame and the only way to "win" is to not play.

Pale Phoenix
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August 27, 2013, 05:05:33 PM
 #1818

Yes, I can acknowledge that legal developments take time, I know this first hand. But I do not see how asserting a false position is wise, nor how a legal team could recommend such.


So let me get this straight...

  • You yourself have issued what you believe are "actual securities" on this and other non-compliant exchanges.
  • Your securities have not been properly registered with either the SEC, CFTC, or your state regulator, and do not qualify for an exemption under Regulation D.
  • There has never been any question as to the legality of your own securities, but now that you have sought legal counsel, you presumably have actual knowledge that you are in violation of Reg. D, among others.
  • You are a "board member" of "virtual identity company" with, at the very least, early access to non-public information, while simultaneously freely trading in the security of said company, with no disclosure of your trades. You have even issued a derivative of the company's stock... that is, virtual shares backed by virtual shares of a virtual company.
-
Now, after having been happy to operate for so long on a wink and a nod, you are here throwing around terms like fraud, as if, all of the sudden, the "shoddy legalize" under which you've issued securities is now repellant to you.

Here's news... if Burnside's characterization of his exchange constitutes fraud, so does your issuance of securities on any exchange that you know to be non-compliant. You can't have it both ways.

I have no idea what you think is to be gained by making these completely unhelpful accusations, but as an issuer of securities on multiple non-compliant exchanges, you should know better.

Anyone with even minimal knowledge in these matters knows that absolutely everything is non-compliant. Perhaps you are naive enough to believe that you really are going to bring yourself into compliance, but either way, your judgment is now seriously in question.

Pale Phoenix
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August 27, 2013, 05:14:35 PM
 #1819

To make it perfectly clear: BTCT is not a game, BTCT is an opportunistic scam masquerading as a game.

It's no more a scam than the exchange with which you are affiliated, your use of magic GPG contracts, and jurisdictional obscurity notwithstanding.

The frequency with which you incorrectly, and with malice, throw around the word "scam" has rendered it as meaningless as the supposed PR services for which you're famous.

EskimoBob
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August 27, 2013, 05:20:39 PM
 #1820

Quote
.....

To make it perfectly clear: MPEX, MPOE etc are not games, those are opportunistic scams masquerading as a 0 stock wunder-bazaar.

FTFY

Dear mircea popescus butt hurt sock puppet, get some lube for yourself and take your painful whining somewhere else.

While reading what I wrote, use the most friendliest and relaxing voice in your head.
BTW, Things in BTC bubble universes are getting ugly....
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