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Author Topic: The Story of Your Enslavement  (Read 2371 times)
myrkul
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November 27, 2012, 12:42:46 AM
 #21

You hit the argument to the video head on.  The libertarian/anarchistic moral structure is that it is better to solve problems with nonviolence, yet it is sometimes beneficial and more efficient to solve problems with violence.

Beneficial to whom?

I did this MRI many times and some people could grasp the concept of what to normally but some people had either a steep learning curve or they would not understand at all.  I feel that tit-for-tat has 2 flaws.

1) Some people take offence to different things.  I wanted a 50/50 split of the profits I sent to Bob, so if I sent 20 units and now Bob has 60 units, they better send me back 30 units or I will retaliate (i.e. not give them any units the next round).  I have seen people get angry with overs from what they feel is offensive as they lost face and that offence could become violent.  Humans are emotional creatures, not rational ones.

2.  If there are no repercussions then there is no fear of reprisals.  Anonymity cannot exist.  If reprisals are OK then some kind of surveillance is required to give proof, otherwise anyone can say, "this person stole my things, I get to steal there things."  It is similar to, "this person is a witch, we should burn them," when in reality the accuser is just angry at the accused.

1) cross-cultural communication has always had this sort of problem.

2) Who said anything about anonymity? Pseudonymity is sufficient.

Beneficial to the physically stronger one? I'm sure we could agree that there are some things that are more easily attainable through violence, so the question should be about the magnitude of this benefit.

Yeah... Might makes right worked so well for most of history.  Roll Eyes

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stochastic
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November 28, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
 #22


2) Who said anything about anonymity? Pseudonymity is sufficient.

The point is, if a person does not know who to retaliate against then no retaliation can occur.  Retaliation of someone using a false name would only cause that person to lose that name.

Introducing constraints to the economy only serves to limit what can be economical.
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November 29, 2012, 12:54:17 AM
 #23


2) Who said anything about anonymity? Pseudonymity is sufficient.

The point is, if a person does not know who to retaliate against then no retaliation can occur.  Retaliation of someone using a false name would only cause that person to lose that name.


Along with any reputation built up with that name. The long con, a la Pirate, is a problem, but few will have the time to invest in something like that, and no pseudonym is perfect. Just ask Trendon Shavers.

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November 29, 2012, 08:09:45 AM
 #24

Along with any reputation built up with that name. The long con, a la Pirate, is a problem, but few will have the time to invest in something like that, and no pseudonym is perfect. Just ask Trendon Shavers.

Have you ever lived in a developing country where there is no effective market regulation (not like in Singapore or the US or even Silk Road for that matter)?

Bascially, every non-repeated txn involves either a) swindling the swindler b) being swindled. Swindling is a contest of wits. It is a big waste.

Okay you say, just make repeated txns. Well what if I want to leave my village? Then what the fuck do I do?

Okay, maybe I come from an important town or ethnic group. My town or ethnic group has enforcement associations in other communities. They will help mediate my txns. Then I can do business elsewhere.

What if I'm not lucky enough to be born somewhere important? Should I just farm my plot and stay in my village?

This is how markets were organized in China prior to the 20th century by the way. Private, nonviolent enforcement of contract law through reputation. It limited long-distance trade to people originating from a handful of famous communities. Shouldn't everyone have the right to be an entrepreneur? Why set up such an unfair playing field?

[Don't get carried away here. The state still enforced criminal law and tax payment. They just did not think commercial law was the state's business. The standard interpretation is that lack of state intervention in Chinese commerce helps explain why Western countries got rich first.]
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November 29, 2012, 10:46:04 AM
 #25

The state still enforced criminal law and tax payment. They just did not think commercial law was the state's business. The standard interpretation is that lack of state intervention in Chinese commerce helps explain why Western countries got rich first.

So then, I guess (by extension) explaining why Western countries are now the first to get poor, while China is gets rich, merely involves pointing out that Western countries no longer regulate commerce, like $600 trillion in fraudulent derivatives for instance, and instead subsidize it.

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November 29, 2012, 08:20:13 PM
 #26

The state still enforced criminal law and tax payment. They just did not think commercial law was the state's business. The standard interpretation is that lack of state intervention in Chinese commerce helps explain why Western countries got rich first.

So then, I guess (by extension) explaining why Western countries are now the first to get poor, while China is gets rich, merely involves pointing out that Western countries no longer regulate commerce, like $600 trillion in fraudulent derivatives for instance, and instead subsidize it.

Subsidies are a form of regulation, if we are to understand that regulation means third-party intervention in other people's affairs.  They're just a form of UP-regulation (incentive) rather than DOWN-regulation (threat of punishment).  Just because the activity in question is regulated to generate MORE fraud, doesn't mean that the activity isn't being regulated.

Meddling in other people's affairs ALWAYS brings unintended consequences.
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November 29, 2012, 10:05:06 PM
 #27

Subsidies are a form of regulation

Not legally.

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November 30, 2012, 12:07:43 AM
 #28

Subsidies are a form of regulation

Not legally.

Yeah, I was talking about concepts derived from reality, not about what holy pieces of paper say.
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December 22, 2012, 03:08:55 AM
 #29

We are enslaved by fear and doubt.  It's what makes us human.  We must find love to be free.  We must find the truth.

Wait a minute.  Wasn't there someone who made a promise that you shall know the truth, and that the truth shall make you free?
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December 24, 2012, 01:24:03 AM
 #30

We are enslaved by fear and doubt.  It's what makes us human.  We must find love to be free.  We must find the truth.

Wait a minute.  Wasn't there someone who made a promise that you shall know the truth, and that the truth shall make you free?

Chuck Norris?
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December 24, 2012, 07:31:33 AM
 #31

I liked this video. Definitely a bit dark when you consider it, and it's not the whole picture. But it does give a good outlook into governments, freedom, and taxation (whether enslavement, 100% tax, or any tax less than that).

I thought the bit saying "the smallest governments end up the largest" was very intruiging, and potentially partly true.
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