[Poll / Discussion]Should we allow account trading/farming?

[MRKLYE]

A call to everyone who uses the forums.

Should we allow account farming and trading to be conducted publicly on the forums?
Are accounts valid collateral? and if so why?

I honestly vote no because it leads to spam, people getting scammed and basically the demise of quality of the forums.

What do you vote and why?

[1713889822]

1713889822

[1713889822]

1713889822

[1713889822]

1713889822

[mexxer-2]

I'm following forum rules which says account trades are allowed.
Accounts will be sold until signature campaigns, DT and Ranks exist. If you try putting a stop at it, it will result in trades in other forum or via other mean of communication. What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

[HardForkComing]

Looks like you're losing a battle here, KYLE.

Most of people vote YES.

[xinzark]

The answer of this question goes for Yes as well as No

These days scamming is a normal behaviour on bitcointalk. One easily purchases an account for a few bucks after scamming from previous one

But not everyone comes here to scam. Few people are also making their living only by posting on bitcointalk. I am not talking about spam posters but those serious ones who comes here with an aim

So, at last I think this should be allowed and users must stay aware of scammers and ways to deal with them

[merelcoin]

I haven't voted, but i do have an opinion on this matter...

Account farming = bad... It should not be allowed, but it's really hard to know if somebody is actually account farming.

Account trading = grey area... If somebody spent a lot of time on this board, and now he wants to leave, i think it's not that bad if he sells his account to a new member who just wants it to level up faster (we've all had a newbie account, and we all know its a drag... No pictures, rate limited posting, no signature campaign, everybody looks down to you,...)

Accounts taken as collateral = light grey area... If an honest person takes a loan, and he has nothing to give as collateral except the time he has invested into his account, i think an account makes a valid collateral. To bad a lot of scammers actually try to create an illusion. They want to invest as little time as possible to make an account look as if it was genuinly created by an interested user.

I think it's a very difficult situation. I see in your post history you're attacking everybody that wants to sell an account, ask a loan, give a loan,....
Personally, i think 90% of the people are honest, and should not be attacked or -ve'd. Account farmers and scammers should be nuked right away, but you should be sure they are a farmer/scammer before you nuke them, and certainly not nuke the account once it's given as collateral (you're just hurting the guys giving the loans... The scammer already cashed out at this point).

It's just my honest opinion. I've given a couple loans in the past, and i can honestly say this is the way i feel about the subject.

[Quickseller]

I am a fan of things Ike freedom of speech, free markets and not having a false sense of security.

Banning and disallowing this kind of activity is not going to stop it however it will make people think it does not happen and when it does scammers can simply say that it is not possible for their account to be sold because it is against the rules which would make it easier to scam. 

[Fwdxlsh]

Can someone explain what trust farming is on BitcoinTalk.... Because apparently I thought my interpretation of the definition was correct. It had been correct on other Bitcoin dealing sites. Now someone is trying to tell me that I'm just incorrect, but I question on how the definition could alter from one site to the next.

[MRKLYE]

What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

I propose we band together and stop allowing it or start warning people they are indeed helping to support the downfall of the forums by helping these idiots peddle their farmed accounts..

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

[mark coins]

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

since accounts selling is allowed in the forum, then that only means forum accounts have value and thats why most lenders considered it as valid collateral. this is how things works in this forum for year/s now and mostly because of the signature campaigns.

[HardForkComing]

What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

I propose we band together and stop allowing it or start warning people they are indeed helping to support the downfall of the forums by helping these idiots peddle their farmed accounts..

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

How about we start banning people who stole other people's money?

Ref: You.

This would be fair enough, right?

[MRKLYE]

What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

I propose we band together and stop allowing it or start warning people they are indeed helping to support the downfall of the forums by helping these idiots peddle their farmed accounts..

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

How about we start banning people who stole other people's money?

Ref: You.

This would be fair enough, right?

This thread isn't about my KLYEMAX fiasco. Lets keep to the task at hand please. For the record I'm paying back my investors, So suck a bag of dicks.

The only people I can see getting hostile or defensive to the idea of this thread are the people that contribute to the pollution and account farming/trading on this account...

I can only imagine the votes will be tampered with as well as legitimate one account forum users only have 1 voting power and these multi accounting asshole skeeze farmers have many to vote with..

 

[Quickseller]

What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

I propose we band together and stop allowing it or start warning people they are indeed helping to support the downfall of the forums by helping these idiots peddle their farmed accounts..

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

It is up to the market to make this decision. Just because the forum allows account sales does not mean an account has value and just because accounts are not allowed does not mean an account would not have value.

[HardForkComing]

What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

I propose we band together and stop allowing it or start warning people they are indeed helping to support the downfall of the forums by helping these idiots peddle their farmed accounts..

Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

How about we start banning people who stole other people's money?

Ref: You.

This would be fair enough, right?

This thread isn't about my KLYEMAX fiasco. Lets keep to the task at hand please. For the record I'm paying back my investors, So suck a bag of dicks.

The only people I can see getting hostile or defensive to the idea of this thread are the people that contribute to the pollution and account farming/trading on this account...

I can only imagine the votes will be tampered with as well as legitimate one account forum users only have 1 voting power and these multi accounting asshole skeeze farmers have many to vote with..

 

"fiasco", lol. You admitted you took people's money and gambled them away man, come on.
Why should anyone listen to your opinion?

The only people I can see getting hostile or defensive to the idea of this thread are the people that contribute to the pollution and account farming/trading on this account...

I just gave an example, I don't buy or sell accounts, nor I believe my d*ck will become bigger if I get a hero-legendary status on Bitcointalk.org. Sorry!

So suck a bag of dicks.

How can you tell that to someone? You're rude. You hurt meh rite in da feelz.

UMAD?

Regarding your entire topic. I think you're just spamming to earn from yoshit sign campaign.

[shorena]

-snip-
Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

Why? Accounts have a value because one can sell the signature. High ranked accounts get more coins per post/term/activity/etc. and thus have a higher value than low ranked accounts.

Also since this is the 100. time this topic was brought up by someone let me just quote these:

-snip-
Its openly allowed, because there is a very real possibility that 95+% of it couldn't be stopped. Sure we might catch the occasional moron who posts out in the open, but there would be plenty of people using bitmessage and tormail that could make good money off of bootlegged accounts. As it is now, hopefully people don't see 2 year old accounts as any more trustworthy than new members. If account selling was "banned" then people would start to trust that these old accounts are the original owners, and they should be trusted due to their time commitment. When in reality, they probably just bought the account for $20 on ebay, to pull a scam.

-snip-
But even with 100,000 votes saying, "No account selling shouldn't be allowed" it wouldn't change anything. It is allowed for the reason that has been mentioned probably over 1000 times now conservatively. Its unenforcable, and to say otherwise is just deluding ourselves. Sure, we can say no account selling, and then people will be caught off guard, as the community here isn't technologically retarded (correct use of the word). It will happen anyway, and people will lose a bit of their suspicion, figuring that all old accounts are their original owners, and that they couldn't have just been purchased off of Ebay for $20. People keep saying, "other forums have detection methods!" A *insert type* forum doesn't have the userbase who knows that they can get around any and all tracking methods, nor do they have 200,000 members.

-snip-
 There are legitimate reasons to buy accounts as well, for example wanting to skip newbie jail, or wanting the username, or even using it for paid signature advertising.

I'd think that scammers may not have the best of luck around here, even after buying accounts, as hopefully, just about no one is trusted, and if they slip up, they get labled a scammer, and are out their money. As well as if they spam for the paid signature advertising, they will get banned and also be out of the money they paid to you.

Could we catch some account sellers? Probably, but more than enough would get through to do damage. Its easy enough to see accounts that have been inactive since 2011 being sold, however what if you were to raise an account up until mid january, sell it in late january, or even february. How hard would it be for the seller to post on the account once or twice per day to keep it active? They would also be increasing the post/activity count and making it more valuable. That wouldn't be very suspicious, especially amongst the other 200,000 acounts. We need to be able to catch all or none. If we don't catch all, people who have old accounts will be trusted, which they shouldnt. If we catch none, no one is trusted, and thats how it should be.

Are we still seriously talking about this? No one likes the act of buying/selling accounts but we are not going to stop it. The staff have made that very clear.

It appears so. I'm sure this debate will rage as long as Bitcointalk exists itself.

There is an even better one by Salty about how account trading combined with paid signature are a possible reason scammers can rarely ROI from bought accounts, but I cant find that right now.

[HardForkComing]

You shouldn't really pay attention to this topic, it's 100% useless. OP goes from a topic to another and bashes people (including me) for having a legit business model and earn their money honestly.

The only way he's able to make money is spamming the forum with his worthless account.
A gambler gotta do what he gotta do.

Why do you care about people who buy and sell accounts? Does it bother you because you can't spam more than them?

This is how I imagine him at this moment:

[HardForkComing]

I'm following forum rules which says account trades are allowed.

Accounts will be sold until signature campaigns, DT and Ranks exist. If you try putting a stop at it, it will result in trades in other forum or via other mean of communication. What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

Yes accordinğ to me there are also legit ones who put their high rank account as collateral in lending section.
If there is a stop at this than the legit ones also cant ask for a loan because i dont think any other personal collateral someone would provide for loans. Sometimes it may be dangerous like  hacking their bank accounts if they provide some other thing as collateral which have their bank details.  
Anyways  mexxer-2 bro could u pls explain about the part i have bolded  in your quote ? I cant find that rule written somewhere in the forum ? Any link to that rule ?

check here Forum rule 18 =>
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are .

discouraged
dɪˈskʌrɪdʒd/Submit
adjective
having lost confidence or enthusiasm; disheartened.
"he must be feeling pretty discouraged"

It doesn't say "Forbidden".


We should leave a degenerate gambler (as he calls himself) change rules of bitcointalk.

Ref:

[Fwdxlsh]

I'm following forum rules which says account trades are allowed.

Accounts will be sold until signature campaigns, DT and Ranks exist. If you try putting a stop at it, it will result in trades in other forum or via other mean of communication. What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

Yes accordinğ to me there are also legit ones who put their high rank account as collateral in lending section.
If there is a stop at this than the legit ones also cant ask for a loan because i dont think any other personal collateral someone would provide for loans. Sometimes it may be dangerous like  hacking their bank accounts if they provide some other thing as collateral which have their bank details.  
Anyways  mexxer-2 bro could u pls explain about the part i have bolded  in your quote ? I cant find that rule written somewhere in the forum ? Any link to that rule ?

check here Forum rule 18 =>
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are .

discouraged
dɪˈskʌrɪdʒd/Submit
adjective
having lost confidence or enthusiasm; disheartened.
"he must be feeling pretty discouraged"

It doesn't say "Forbidden".


We should leave a degenerate gambler (as he calls himself) change rules of bitcointalk.

Ref:
https://i.imgur.com/0nUROld.png

Hello. I'm here to defend OP.

Stop being mean to him. He is not feeling well and you're just trying to make it worse. You should be ashamed.

[HardForkComing]

I'm following forum rules which says account trades are allowed.

Accounts will be sold until signature campaigns, DT and Ranks exist. If you try putting a stop at it, it will result in trades in other forum or via other mean of communication. What do you propose at any rate, to stop selling accounts?

Yes accordinğ to me there are also legit ones who put their high rank account as collateral in lending section.
If there is a stop at this than the legit ones also cant ask for a loan because i dont think any other personal collateral someone would provide for loans. Sometimes it may be dangerous like  hacking their bank accounts if they provide some other thing as collateral which have their bank details.  
Anyways  mexxer-2 bro could u pls explain about the part i have bolded  in your quote ? I cant find that rule written somewhere in the forum ? Any link to that rule ?

check here Forum rule 18 =>
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are .

discouraged
dɪˈskʌrɪdʒd/Submit
adjective
having lost confidence or enthusiasm; disheartened.
"he must be feeling pretty discouraged"

It doesn't say "Forbidden".


We should leave a degenerate gambler (as he calls himself) change rules of bitcointalk.

Ref:

Hello. I'm here to defend OP.

Stop being mean to him. He is not feeling well and you're just trying to make it worse. You should be ashamed.

Thanks for being a human being who's defending the weak ones.
You're contribution to humanity is over 9000!

I don't see a single reason why would people stop buying or selling accounts.

[hedgy73]

I dont think selling accounts should be allowed so I voted NO. All it does is clutter the forum with lots of worthless posts every day from account farmers looking to build post count.

[XinXan]

-snip-
Accounts should not be considered valid collateral or have any value... End of story.

Why? Accounts have a value because one can sell the signature. High ranked accounts get more coins per post/term/activity/etc. and thus have a higher value than low ranked accounts.

Also since this is the 100. time this topic was brought up by someone let me just quote these:

-snip-
Its openly allowed, because there is a very real possibility that 95+% of it couldn't be stopped. Sure we might catch the occasional moron who posts out in the open, but there would be plenty of people using bitmessage and tormail that could make good money off of bootlegged accounts. As it is now, hopefully people don't see 2 year old accounts as any more trustworthy than new members. If account selling was "banned" then people would start to trust that these old accounts are the original owners, and they should be trusted due to their time commitment. When in reality, they probably just bought the account for $20 on ebay, to pull a scam.

-snip-
But even with 100,000 votes saying, "No account selling shouldn't be allowed" it wouldn't change anything. It is allowed for the reason that has been mentioned probably over 1000 times now conservatively. Its unenforcable, and to say otherwise is just deluding ourselves. Sure, we can say no account selling, and then people will be caught off guard, as the community here isn't technologically retarded (correct use of the word). It will happen anyway, and people will lose a bit of their suspicion, figuring that all old accounts are their original owners, and that they couldn't have just been purchased off of Ebay for $20. People keep saying, "other forums have detection methods!" A *insert type* forum doesn't have the userbase who knows that they can get around any and all tracking methods, nor do they have 200,000 members.

-snip-
 There are legitimate reasons to buy accounts as well, for example wanting to skip newbie jail, or wanting the username, or even using it for paid signature advertising.

I'd think that scammers may not have the best of luck around here, even after buying accounts, as hopefully, just about no one is trusted, and if they slip up, they get labled a scammer, and are out their money. As well as if they spam for the paid signature advertising, they will get banned and also be out of the money they paid to you.

Could we catch some account sellers? Probably, but more than enough would get through to do damage. Its easy enough to see accounts that have been inactive since 2011 being sold, however what if you were to raise an account up until mid january, sell it in late january, or even february. How hard would it be for the seller to post on the account once or twice per day to keep it active? They would also be increasing the post/activity count and making it more valuable. That wouldn't be very suspicious, especially amongst the other 200,000 acounts. We need to be able to catch all or none. If we don't catch all, people who have old accounts will be trusted, which they shouldnt. If we catch none, no one is trusted, and thats how it should be.

Are we still seriously talking about this? No one likes the act of buying/selling accounts but we are not going to stop it. The staff have made that very clear.

It appears so. I'm sure this debate will rage as long as Bitcointalk exists itself.

There is an even better one by Salty about how account trading combined with paid signature are a possible reason scammers can rarely ROI from bought accounts, but I cant find that right now.

The excuse of ''It will happen anyway'' or ''It will only happen less'' is one of the most stupid excuses ever, it's like saying that there shouldn't be a 45 sec waiting period to login because hackers would still try to access accounts anyways so why bother making it harder for them when they can do it anyways.