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Author Topic: [ANN][PIVX] - PRIVATE INSTANT VERIFIED TRANSACTION - PROOF OF STAKE - ZEROCOIN  (Read 726017 times)
StakeBox
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April 01, 2016, 05:03:20 AM

So, everyone, PoS rewards schedule, any suggestions? Amounts, stages, supporting arguments? We could just dictate them to you from on high, but this is your coin too, own it.

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bathrobehero
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April 01, 2016, 08:33:33 AM

So, everyone, PoS rewards schedule, any suggestions? Amounts, stages, supporting arguments? We could just dictate them to you from on high, but this is your coin too, own it.

Maybe PoW rewards should decrease slowly to 50 DNET per block by the time PoS starts?

The drop from the last PoW block to PoS is huge. And then even the PoS halvings are significant.
Drops like these would cause a lot of people to sell off before the drops happen because profitability will be cut and the price very likely wouldn't compensate for it.
Because of the nature of the coin you can't have huge drops and halvings because you'd drive away both masternode owners and stakers which you rely on.

I'm not saying you should have a super gradual decrease each block but maybe reduce the reward weekly (10080 blocks) by whatever percentage that has the same overall effect as the planned reward rate with halvings.

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April 01, 2016, 02:16:27 PM

So, everyone, PoS rewards schedule, any suggestions? Amounts, stages, supporting arguments? We could just dictate them to you from on high, but this is your coin too, own it.

As for making a suggestion, here's my idea of PoS rate dropping 50% each year:
Year 1 = 20.0% = 77,760,000 DNET
Year 2 = 10.0% = 85,536,000 DNET
Year 3 = 05.0% = 89,812,800 DNET
Year 4 = 02.5% = 92,058,120 DNET

Then stay at 2.5% indefinitely. (or even stay at 5% indefinitely from Year 3 onwards)
I believe having high PoS rate increases the chance of DNET forming a strong network.

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April 01, 2016, 03:00:44 PM

here is Option 2 from my point of view,  the coins production is reduced by 25% over the first 3 yrs. Each PoS Phase has been adjusted to 180 day cycle

PoW Phase = 84,600,00 + Possible Budget of 8,460,000 = 93,060,000 or less

PoS Phase 1: (100 DNET per block) Blocks 259201 - 518400 [259200 blocks] 25,920,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 2,592,000 = 28,512,000 or less)

PoS Phase 2: (50 DNET per block) Blocks 518401 - 777600 [259200 blocks] 12,960,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 1,296,000 = 14,256,000 or less)

PoS Phase 3: (25 DNET per block) Blocks 777601- 1036800 [259200 blocks] 6,480,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 648,000 = 7,128,000 or less)

PoS Phase 4: (12.5 DNET per block) Blocks 1036801- 1296000 [259200 blocks] 3,240,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 324,000 = 3,564,000 or less)

PoS Phase 5: (5 DNET per block) Blocks 1296001 + [259200 blocks] 1,296,000 per yr there after + Possible Budget of 129600 = 1,425,600 or less)

[End of Phase 5: 147.945.600]
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April 01, 2016, 03:57:29 PM

here is Option 2 from my point of view,  the coins production is reduced by 25% over the first 3 yrs. Each PoS Phase has been adjusted to 180 day cycle

PoW Phase = 84,600,00 + Possible Budget of 8,460,000 = 93,060,000 or less

PoS Phase 1: (100 DNET per block) Blocks 259201 - 518400 [259200 blocks] 25,920,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 2,592,000 = 28,512,000 or less)

PoS Phase 2: (50 DNET per block) Blocks 518401 - 777600 [259200 blocks] 12,960,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 1,296,000 = 14,256,000 or less)

PoS Phase 3: (25 DNET per block) Blocks 777601- 1036800 [259200 blocks] 6,480,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 648,000 = 7,128,000 or less)

PoS Phase 4: (12.5 DNET per block) Blocks 1036801- 1296000 [259200 blocks] 3,240,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 324,000 = 3,564,000 or less)

PoS Phase 5: (5 DNET per block) Blocks 1296001 + [259200 blocks] 1,296,000 per yr there after + Possible Budget of 129600 = 1,425,600 or less)

[End of Phase 5: 147.945.600]

Personally, I would like to see that total cut and half.  Really don't see a need to have that many coins released in that timeframe for a stable functioning currency.
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April 01, 2016, 04:00:45 PM

I agree burning the supply by half seems like the best approach, the less coins available the more the currency is worth in the long run just make sure you follow community feedback on the best approach and everything will work out for you guys I'm sure.

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April 01, 2016, 04:34:59 PM

Also think that 150 M are too much coins. And imho, the idea from bathrobehero of not making so "hard" coin drops it's good to maintain mining and maybe then staking stability. 

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April 01, 2016, 06:03:11 PM

here is Option 2 from my point of view,  the coins production is reduced by 25% over the first 3 yrs. Each PoS Phase has been adjusted to 180 day cycle

PoW Phase = 84,600,00 + Possible Budget of 8,460,000 = 93,060,000 or less

PoS Phase 1: (100 DNET per block) Blocks 259201 - 518400 [259200 blocks] 25,920,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 2,592,000 = 28,512,000 or less)

PoS Phase 2: (50 DNET per block) Blocks 518401 - 777600 [259200 blocks] 12,960,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 1,296,000 = 14,256,000 or less)

PoS Phase 3: (25 DNET per block) Blocks 777601- 1036800 [259200 blocks] 6,480,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 648,000 = 7,128,000 or less)

PoS Phase 4: (12.5 DNET per block) Blocks 1036801- 1296000 [259200 blocks] 3,240,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 324,000 = 3,564,000 or less)

PoS Phase 5: (5 DNET per block) Blocks 1296001 + [259200 blocks] 1,296,000 per yr there after + Possible Budget of 129600 = 1,425,600 or less)

[End of Phase 5: 147.945.600]

Personally, I would like to see that total cut and half.  Really don't see a need to have that many coins released in that timeframe for a stable functioning currency.

ok, I will work the numbers, but you do realize that that requires drastic changes, which if I recall you were against not long ago.
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April 01, 2016, 06:04:03 PM

Also think that 150 M are too much coins. And imho, the idea from bathrobehero of not making so "hard" coin drops it's good to maintain mining and maybe then staking stability. 

You totally just contradicted yourself there...
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April 01, 2016, 06:36:18 PM

Also think that 150 M are too much coins. And imho, the idea from bathrobehero of not making so "hard" coin drops it's good to maintain mining and maybe then staking stability. 

You totally just contradicted yourself there...
Why???
I think a number of total coins about 100-120 M don't dilute too much the value of the already POW mined coins. And yes, to make a bigger number of steps in the decreasing of the supply for generating same amount of total coins add stability to the coin price in my opinion. Don't see the contradiction while maintaining the same amount of coins. 

Beware with ENT, shaddy things happen when try to mine it...
s3v3nh4cks
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April 01, 2016, 06:44:53 PM

Because you can't have the supply under the number you suggest without doing a hard drop in production.

Example;

POS SPECS: LOWER COIN SUPPLY OPTION 4
覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧
Reward Distribution amounts are based on maintaining 30% of the coin supply in masternodes at all times

PoW Phase = 84,600,00 + Possible Budget of 8,460,000 = 93,060,000 or less

PoS Phase 1: (62.5 DNET per block) Blocks 259201 - 518400 [259200 blocks] 16,200,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 1,620,000 = 17,820,000 or less)
Reward Distribution: (Masternode: 31.25 DNET) | (Staking Wallets: 31.25 DNET) | (Budgetary System: 6.25 DNET) [216000 DNET Eligible per month for Budget]

PoS Phase 2: (15 DNET per block) Blocks 518401 - 777600 [259200 blocks] 3,888,000 DNET + Possible Budget of 388,800 = 4,455,000 or less)
Reward Distribution: (Masternode: 7.5 DNET) | (Staking Wallets: 7.5 DNET) | (Budgetary System: 1.5 DNET) [108000 DNET Eligible per month for Budget]

PoS Phase 3: (5 DNET per block) Blocks 1296001 + [259200 blocks] 1,296,000 per yr there after + Possible Budget of 129600 = 1,425,600 or less)
Reward Distribution: (Masternode: 2.5 DNET) | (Staking Wallets: 2.5 DNET) | (Budgetary System: .5 DNET) [10800 DNET Eligible per month for Budget]

[End of Phase 3: 116.760.600]
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April 01, 2016, 06:53:12 PM

Maybe PoW rewards should decrease slowly to 50 DNET per block by the time PoS starts?
There has been mined aprox. 21 M coins for the moment. So if PoW rewards start to be smoothly decreased I think 100-120 M coins is achievable without a big drop in production. I have to recognise I have not done the maths for the moment. And yes, I don't know if this will suppose big tech changes and challenges.  Huh

Edited: Sorry, I was writing this post while you write yours. Now I see it  Lips sealed

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April 01, 2016, 06:57:16 PM

Maybe PoW rewards should decrease slowly to 50 DNET per block by the time PoS starts?
There has been mined aprox. 21 M coins for the moment. So if PoW rewards start to be smoothly decreased I think 100-120 M coins is achievable without a big drop in production. I have to recognise I have not done the maths for the moment. And yes, I don't know if this will suppose big tech changes and challenges.  Huh

Edited: Sorry, I was writing this post while you write yours. Now I see it  Lips sealed

PoW reduction has already been proposed, and was voted down by the Masternode owners. Please feel free to submit another proposal with your supporting reasons and see if the outcome is different.
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April 01, 2016, 08:46:10 PM

taking bathrobhero's suggestion into account, I like how the numbers look after the first year. They are not too low, but are low enough. What are your thoughts??

REWARDS REDUCE EVERY 7 DAYS: [10080 Blocks]

Year 1: 117,269,200
Year 2: 2,671,200
Year 3: 2,620,800
Year 4: 2,620,800
Year 5: 2,620,800

After 5 Years: Max Coin Supply: 143,355,080

First 6 months of PoS

250 - 2,520,000
240 - 2,419,200
230 - 2,318,400
220 - 2,217,600
210 - 2,116,800
200 - 2,016,000
190 - 1,915,200
180 - 1.814,400
170 - 1,713,600
160 - 1,612,800
150 - 1,512,000
140 - 1,411,200
130 - 1.310.400
120 - 1,209,600
110 - 1,118,800
100 - 1,008,000
90 - 907,200
80 - 806,400
70 - 705,600
60 - 604,800
50 - 504,000
40 - 403,200
30 - 302.400
20 - 201,600

Year 2:

10 - 100,800
5 - 50400 x 51 weeks

Year 3 +

5 - 50400 x 52 weeks
Tecem
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April 01, 2016, 09:19:06 PM

Is there something changed? I didn't receive a payout on my mastered for 29 hours. Was fine before. My routing is all ok.
s3v3nh4cks
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April 01, 2016, 10:32:41 PM

Is there something changed? I didn't receive a payout on my mastered for 29 hours. Was fine before. My routing is all ok.
Nope, everything is 'A' Ok..
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April 02, 2016, 12:54:15 AM
Last edit: April 02, 2016, 01:08:37 AM by jakiman

Okay. I've thought this through much more now. I also don't like PoS much so here's my new idea.

As nothing is set concrete with DNET yet, can we just keep PoW for MUCH longer?
I don't think it's good to switch to PoS too early.
PoW really helps with distribution and setting a tangible price.

Just keep DNET as PoW but drop the reward rate lower gradually to stretch the PoW period for much longer.
So we are not cutting the coin supply. Just lenghtening PoW and delaying PoS until it is more established.

PoW Period Increase
- Start from block 126720 (which is 4 weeks from block 86400)
- 50:45:5 for MN:MINE:VOTE ratio. (Promotes more MN setup)
- PoW reward drop every 7 days (10080 block) until block 167041.

PoW Phase 1 = Block# 000001 to 126700 = 250 = 31,680,000 DNET
PoW Phase 2 = Block# 126721 to 136800 = 200 = 33,696,000 DNET
PoW Phase 3 = Block# 136801 to 146880 = 160 = 35,308,800 DNET
PoW Phase 4 = Block# 146881 to 156960 = 128 = 36,599,040 DNET
PoW Phase 5 = Block# 156961 to 167040 = 96 = 37,566,720 DNET
PoW Phase 6 = Block# 167041 to 592560 = 64 = 64,800,000 DNET (this last phase is 295.5 days long)

PoW ends at block 592560 then we can go into PoS. (We can decide reward later)
So we'll have nearly a year from now before going to PoS. (Approx. 353 days)

Let me know what you think. I really would prefer a longer PoW than worry about the PoS rate now while it's not even established.
Of course, if the above PoW drop is too quick for first 4 weeks, we could lengthen it but drop the last phase to a lower block reward. (e.g. 32)

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April 02, 2016, 01:28:46 AM

taking bathrobhero's suggestion into account, I like how the numbers look after the first year. They are not too low, but are low enough. What are your thoughts??

REWARDS REDUCE EVERY 7 DAYS: [10080 Blocks]

Year 1: 117,269,200
Year 2: 2,671,200
Year 3: 2,620,800
Year 4: 2,620,800
Year 5: 2,620,800

After 5 Years: Max Coin Supply: 143,355,080

First 6 months of PoS

250 - 2,520,000
240 - 2,419,200
230 - 2,318,400
220 - 2,217,600
210 - 2,116,800
200 - 2,016,000
190 - 1,915,200
180 - 1.814,400
170 - 1,713,600
160 - 1,612,800
150 - 1,512,000
140 - 1,411,200
130 - 1.310.400
120 - 1,209,600
110 - 1,118,800
100 - 1,008,000
90 - 907,200
80 - 806,400
70 - 705,600
60 - 604,800
50 - 504,000
40 - 403,200
30 - 302.400
20 - 201,600

Year 2:

10 - 100,800
5 - 50400 x 51 weeks

Year 3 +

5 - 50400 x 52 weeks

I like it
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April 02, 2016, 02:57:40 AM

Okay. I've thought this through much more now. I also don't like PoS much so here's my new idea.

As nothing is set concrete with DNET yet, can we just keep PoW for MUCH longer?
I don't think it's good to switch to PoS too early.
PoW really helps with distribution and setting a tangible price.

Just keep DNET as PoW but drop the reward rate lower gradually to stretch the PoW period for much longer.
So we are not cutting the coin supply. Just lenghtening PoW and delaying PoS until it is more established.

PoW Period Increase
- Start from block 126720 (which is 4 weeks from block 86400)
- 50:45:5 for MN:MINE:VOTE ratio. (Promotes more MN setup)
- PoW reward drop every 7 days (10080 block) until block 167041.

PoW Phase 1 = Block# 000001 to 126700 = 250 = 31,680,000 DNET
PoW Phase 2 = Block# 126721 to 136800 = 200 = 33,696,000 DNET
PoW Phase 3 = Block# 136801 to 146880 = 160 = 35,308,800 DNET
PoW Phase 4 = Block# 146881 to 156960 = 128 = 36,599,040 DNET
PoW Phase 5 = Block# 156961 to 167040 = 96 = 37,566,720 DNET
PoW Phase 6 = Block# 167041 to 592560 = 64 = 64,800,000 DNET (this last phase is 295.5 days long)

PoW ends at block 592560 then we can go into PoS. (We can decide reward later)
So we'll have nearly a year from now before going to PoS. (Approx. 353 days)

Let me know what you think. I really would prefer a longer PoW than worry about the PoS rate now while it's not even established.
Of course, if the above PoW drop is too quick for first 4 weeks, we could lengthen it but drop the last phase to a lower block reward. (e.g. 32)

Personally, if there was a decent means of distribution other than PoW I think we would of skipped PoW all together.. Smiley
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April 02, 2016, 07:24:17 AM

taking bathrobhero's suggestion into account, I like how the numbers look after the first year. They are not too low, but are low enough. What are your thoughts??

REWARDS REDUCE EVERY 7 DAYS: [10080 Blocks]

Year 1: 117,269,200
Year 2: 2,671,200
Year 3: 2,620,800
Year 4: 2,620,800
Year 5: 2,620,800

After 5 Years: Max Coin Supply: 143,355,080

First 6 months of PoS

250 - 2,520,000
240 - 2,419,200
230 - 2,318,400
220 - 2,217,600
210 - 2,116,800
200 - 2,016,000
190 - 1,915,200
180 - 1.814,400
170 - 1,713,600
160 - 1,612,800
150 - 1,512,000
140 - 1,411,200
130 - 1.310.400
120 - 1,209,600
110 - 1,118,800
100 - 1,008,000
90 - 907,200
80 - 806,400
70 - 705,600
60 - 604,800
50 - 504,000
40 - 403,200
30 - 302.400
20 - 201,600

Year 2:

10 - 100,800
5 - 50400 x 51 weeks

Year 3 +

5 - 50400 x 52 weeks
It sounds good. 6M coins less than in the first proposal and a smooth decrease of PoS reward which promotes staking till distri is enough. Thanks for the detailed quantities, very helpful s3v3nh4cks.  Smiley

Beware with ENT, shaddy things happen when try to mine it...
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