Bitcoin Forum
October 15, 2024, 12:03:43 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 28.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Bitcoinica liquidator wants to hear from users  (Read 64366 times)
osmosis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300
Merit: 250



View Profile
October 16, 2013, 06:07:15 AM
 #221

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


View Profile
October 16, 2013, 11:58:22 AM
 #222

It's clear what the hold-up is. The liquidator has no power and Karpeles gives a shit about bitcoinica users. MtGox needs all the funds it can get right now just to keep afloat. Perhaps he would have been bankrupt already if it wasn't for our coins and fiat.
dancingnancy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 661
Merit: 500


View Profile
October 16, 2013, 03:22:03 PM
 #223

It's clear what the hold-up is. The liquidator has no power and Karpeles gives a shit about bitcoinica users. MtGox needs all the funds it can get right now just to keep afloat. Perhaps he would have been bankrupt already if it wasn't for our coins and fiat.

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something.  I almost forgot all about the "cash" I should still have, if that even is a real thing anymore.  Ugh..
osmosis
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 300
Merit: 250



View Profile
October 16, 2013, 09:26:38 PM
 #224

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something. 

Screw that. I want the coins I deposited. Gox has them.
ninjarobot (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 761
Merit: 500


Mine Silent, Mine Deep


View Profile
October 17, 2013, 04:27:18 AM
 #225

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

I wrote the following to the liquidator on Sept 17:

Quote
Hi Anne,

In the second report you alluded to the possibility of legal action against MtGox in order to gain access to the Bitcoinica funds stored there.

1) Has there been any progress in this area? If so, how can the creditors help?

2) Is there a date for when to expect the 3rd report?

3) Does PKFCR have a fiduciary duty towards the Bitcoinica creditors?

4) Is PKFCR aware of the fact that DHS has seized 5M of MtGox's customer deposits and that Coinlab is witholding another 5M of customer deposits? MtGox is a huge counter party risk for Bitcoinica creditors given their current situation.

Bitcoinica is a small company, I was hoping that the liquidation could be a more swift affair in the interest of the creditors.

On Oct 10 I finally got a reply which I can't share here because it comes with a lot of legal boiler plate but instead of answers I got a brief statement that every time they write an email it adds costs to the liquidation, which will affect the distribution to creditors.  (... I wonder how much they will charge for that?)

So you better keep your mouth shut and every 6 month you can expect another scrap of information in the shape of a liquidator report detailing 0 progress. Oh and another 50.000 USD please for our service. Suffice it to say that the Bitcoinica debacle has been a real education for me. Faith in humanity has dropped a few notches.

dancingnancy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 661
Merit: 500


View Profile
October 17, 2013, 05:25:24 AM
 #226

Yeah, all out open positions were supposed to be liquidated at like $11.00 or something.

Screw that. I want the coins I deposited. Gox has them.

No, I meant additional cash from open positions using leverage.  If you remember, that was in addition to the coins you actually transferred in yourself.  There was a spot to mark this for the liquidators.  If you failed to do so, I would contact them.
dancingnancy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 661
Merit: 500


View Profile
October 17, 2013, 05:30:00 AM
 #227

We could also draft letters to both Gox and the Liquidator, asking for an official response from each of them on what they are waiting for to move forward, as we are blind right now to what the hold up is. We could get these letters posted on the blogs to get some publicity.

I wrote the following to the liquidator on Sept 17:

Quote
Hi Anne,

In the second report you alluded to the possibility of legal action against MtGox in order to gain access to the Bitcoinica funds stored there.

1) Has there been any progress in this area? If so, how can the creditors help?

2) Is there a date for when to expect the 3rd report?

3) Does PKFCR have a fiduciary duty towards the Bitcoinica creditors?

4) Is PKFCR aware of the fact that DHS has seized 5M of MtGox's customer deposits and that Coinlab is witholding another 5M of customer deposits? MtGox is a huge counter party risk for Bitcoinica creditors given their current situation.

Bitcoinica is a small company, I was hoping that the liquidation could be a more swift affair in the interest of the creditors.

On Oct 10 I finally got a reply which I can't share here because it comes with a lot of legal boiler plate but instead of answers I got a brief statement that every time they write an email it adds costs to the liquidation, which will affect the distribution to creditors.  (... I wonder how much they will charge for that?)

So you better keep your mouth shut and every 6 month you can expect another scrap of information in the shape of a liquidator report detailing 0 progress. Oh and another 50.000 USD please for our service. Suffice it to say that the Bitcoinica debacle has been a real education for me. Faith in humanity has dropped a few notches.



Agreed.  That's why I think if PC and Ver can reach an agreement soon it would all be in our best interests.  Not to mention Mt Cox holding our coins. 

Otherwise, I am sure these people would face much more of a shit storm if the general public finds out about how this has been handled (in the form of further litigation) - some of these people are "influential" in the BTC community.  Why would anyone trust anything to someone in the past that has acted not in the best interest of the creditors involved? 

All I know, and I don't know much, is that Amir seems to be forthright with what he has been saying.  I mean.. then you get pictures of letters sent by random people containing fortune cookies..derp..what is going on here?  jesus
Koekiemonster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321
Merit: 250


Bitbuy.nl!


View Profile
December 03, 2013, 12:59:58 AM
 #228

I PM'D Roger Ver this week and he told me he heard the liquidator has gotten hold of the passwords to the Gox accounts, so hopefully we will hear about the progress soon. The report is due soon anyway.

https://www.bitbuy.nl - Koop eenvoudig, snel en goedkoop bitcoins bij Bitbuy!
Bitcointalk topic over Bitbuy!
nrd525
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023


View Profile
December 03, 2013, 01:07:13 AM
 #229

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
2GOOD
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 547
Merit: 531


First bits: 12good


View Profile WWW
December 03, 2013, 01:46:27 AM
 #230

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

i really hope they dont sell my coins and give me $11 each for them :/

That would be a pity  Undecided

nrd525
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023


View Profile
December 03, 2013, 02:35:18 AM
 #231

I had been thinking they'd liquidate at market value and give us the surplus from the increase in BTC value.  Now I'm thinking the company owners will get the surplus.   If so, they're going to make a killing.

Does anyone know common wealth law on this?

Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
rdponticelli
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 325
Merit: 250


Our highest capital is the Confidence we build.


View Profile
December 03, 2013, 10:10:01 PM
 #232

I wonder if they'll crash the market when they sell the BTC? 

i really hope they dont sell my coins and give me $11 each for them :/

That would be a pity shameless robbery Undecided

FTFY

But sadly that's a usual kind of robbery for the legacy "justice" system... Undecided
poi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 7
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 07, 2013, 08:41:57 PM
 #233

Got this 4th Dec after inquiring

Quote
The Liquidators report on the progress of the liquidation will be emailed to creditors shortly.
 
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
anne.swanepoel@pkfcr.co.nz
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423
Koekiemonster
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 321
Merit: 250


Bitbuy.nl!


View Profile
December 16, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
 #234

Got this 4th Dec after inquiring

Quote
The Liquidators report on the progress of the liquidation will be emailed to creditors shortly.
 
Regards
Anne Swanepoel
Secretary
Description: C:\Users\annes\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Signatures\Corporate-PKF-Email-Small.jpg
PKF Corporate Recovery & Insolvency (Auckland) Limited
Level 3, 48 Courthouse Lane | PO Box 3678, Auckland 1140, New Zealand
anne.swanepoel@pkfcr.co.nz
www.pkfcr.co.nz
P:
+64 9 302 0521
F:
+64 9 302 0536
DDI:
+64 9 306 7423

They have a different definition of "shortly" than I have. Anyone contacted them past two weeks?

https://www.bitbuy.nl - Koop eenvoudig, snel en goedkoop bitcoins bij Bitbuy!
Bitcointalk topic over Bitbuy!
tbcoin
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
December 16, 2013, 03:16:15 PM
 #235

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

Sorry for my bad english Wink
Bitcoin card for deposit and payment + Little POS
Donations:1N65efiNUhH6sEQg7Z6oUC76kJS9Yhevyf
disclaimer201
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1526
Merit: 1001


View Profile
December 16, 2013, 05:34:18 PM
 #236

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

yes, it seems something is going on, im not exactly sure what, however im okay for them to hold out for good news, like mark giving us back our coins. that would be cool.

After all this time, do you think good things can happen in this world?!
dancingnancy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 661
Merit: 500


View Profile
December 16, 2013, 08:31:16 PM
 #237

I have good feelings about this delay, look like they are doing something

yes, it seems something is going on, im not exactly sure what, however im okay for them to hold out for good news, like mark giving us back our coins. that would be cool.

After all this time, do you think good things can happen in this world?!

Roger ver has been keeping up on this and maybe is effort is about to pay off.

This would make for an excellent christmas present.
dancingnancy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 661
Merit: 500


View Profile
December 17, 2013, 02:53:01 AM
 #238

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?
nrd525
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1868
Merit: 1023


View Profile
December 17, 2013, 03:26:14 AM
 #239

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?

I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation.  And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm.  And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.

Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero.  It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation.  On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.

Of course this is all speculation.  We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.

Digital Gold for Gamblers and True Believers
ninjarobot (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 761
Merit: 500


Mine Silent, Mine Deep


View Profile
December 17, 2013, 03:59:09 AM
 #240

Why is there a chance we don't get our coins and our cash back?  We should be made whole minus liquidator fees?

I think there is a chance we'd get the value in US dollars of the bitcoins at the time of liquidation.  And that there will be a very large surplus amount of money which will go to the owners of the firm.  And that the bitcoinica liquidation could be treated as the type of liquidation where the number of assets is greater than the liabilities.

Think about what would happen if bitcoins went down to zero.  It makes sense for a liquidator to value a highly variable asset at the value at the point of liquidation.  On the other hand, if the liquidator doesn't ownership of the assets until much later - it could make sense to value them at the point of acquisition.

Of course this is all speculation.  We need to some solid kiwi (New Zealand) legal advice.

Nice insolvency that would be. The people that f*cked up would be richly rewarded for their mistakes at the expense of all depositors.

Bitcoinica liability needs to be defined as BTC based.

The 3rd Liquidator report should be out any day now. So far I've been very disappointed in the performance of the liquidator. So I'm not very hopeful.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 [12] 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!