Putin orders sanctions against Turkey after downing of jet

[Blithe]

 Russian President Vladimir Putin on Saturday called for sanctions against Turkey, following the downing this week by Turkey of a Russian warplane.
The decree published on the Kremlin's website Saturday came hours after Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan had voiced regret over the incident, saying his country was "truly saddened" by the event and wished it hadn't occurred.
It includes a ban on some goods and forbids extensions of labor contracts for Turks working in Russia as of Jan. 1. It doesn't specify what goods are to be banned or give other details, but it also calls for ending chartered flights from Russia to Turkey and for Russian tourism companies to stop selling vacation packages that would include a stay in Turkey.
Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev earlier in the week had ordered his cabinet to develop a list of goods to be sanctioned.
Putin's decree also calls for ending visa-free travel between Russia and Turkey and orders the tightening of control over Turkish air carriers in Russia "for security reasons." The decree was issued "to protect Russian citizens from crimes," a Kremlin statement said.
Erdogan's expression of regret Saturday was the first since Tuesday's incident in which Turkish F-16 jets shot down the Russian jet on grounds that it had violated Turkey's airspace despite repeated warnings to change course. It was the first time in half a century that a NATO member shot down a Russian plane and drew a harsh response from Moscow.
"We are truly saddened by this incident," Erdogan said. "We wish it hadn't happened as such, but unfortunately such a thing has happened. I hope that something like this doesn't occur again."
Addressing supporters in the western city of Balikesir, Erdogan said neither country should allow the incident to escalate and take a destructive form that would lead to "saddening consequences."
He renewed a call for a meeting with Putin on the sidelines of a climate conference in Paris next week, saying it would be an opportunity to overcome tensions.
Erdogan's friendly overture however, came after he again vigorously defended Turkey's action and criticized Russia for its operations in Syria.
"If we allow our sovereign rights to be violated ... then the territory would no longer be our territory," Erdogan said.
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu also said he hoped a meeting between Erdogan and Putin would take place in Paris.
"In such situations it is important to keep the channels of communication open," he said.
Putin has denounced the Turkish action as a "treacherous stab in the back," and has insisted that the plane was downed over Syrian territory in violation of international law. He has also refused to take telephone calls from Erdogan. Putin's foreign affairs adviser, Yuri Ushakov, said Friday that the Kremlin had received Erdogan's request for a meeting, but wouldn't say whether such a meeting is possible.
Asked why Putin hasn't picked up the phone to respond to Erdogan's two phone calls, he said that "we have seen that the Turkish side hasn't been ready to offer an elementary apology over the plane incident."
After the incident, Russia deployed long-range S-400 air defense missile systems to a Russian air base in Syria just 50 kilometers (30 miles) south of the border with Turkey to help protect Russian warplanes, and the Russian military warned it would shoot down any aerial target that would pose a potential threat to its planes.
On Saturday Turkey issued a travel warning urging its nationals to delay non-urgent and unnecessary travel to Russia, saying Turkish travelers were facing "problems" in the country. It said Turks should delay travel plans until "the situation becomes clear."
___
Heintz reported from Moscow.

[1715659384]

1715659384

[1715659384]

1715659384

[1715659384]

1715659384

[1715659384]

1715659384

[JesusHadAegis]

And here comes putin again..

[1btcdream]

If I were Putin, I'd just turn off the natural gas pipeline that runs into Turkey and let them freeze. But of course Turkey's got all that blackmarket oil coming out of Syria to keep them warm.

[bryant.coleman]

If I were Putin, I'd just turn off the natural gas pipeline that runs into Turkey and let them freeze. But of course Turkey's got all that blackmarket oil coming out of Syria to keep them warm.

I don't think that is necessary. Already the drop in the tourist inflows and the banning of the Turkish fruit and vegetable products have made the position of Erdogan very weak. If the Russians cut off the gas supply, then in the long term their reputation will get tarnished. Also, gas prices are at 5-year lows, and without Turkey, Russia will be left with excess gas and less revenue.

[zenitzz]

Russia & Putin has done a wonderful job, they know this is crocodile's tear & they will not fall for it.. & TURKEY's is great supporter of TERRORIST, it should not be tolerated.

[mohsin qureshi]

This is very very alarming sitiation. The world is already in state of war. And now there is new conflict between Russia and Turkey ...
However the Turk President Mr. Tayyab said his condolences upon the plane crash but Russia count this incident against him. Now the economic sanctions on Turkey is not good the tense situation between the two.
Economic sanctions not only bad for Turkey but also for Russia too. The bilateral businesses is disturb now.
The current situation is only favorable for the common enemy that is obviously ISIS.
Both countries must show maturity not only for each other bit the stake of the world peace also.

[WaterSupply]

Hello :-)

Things are really heating up in this part of the world.

Putin does seem to be quite arrogant, but it is understanding as he wants to show the world he is a real tough guy. Turkey is still quite strong and i think they have much less to lose than Russia.

It will be really interesting to see what direction this regional conflict takes as more and more powers start to join in.

Cheers

[galdur]

(CNN)Iraq says it has reached a deal to share intelligence with Russia, Iran and Syria in the fight against ISIS militants.

The announcement on Saturday from the Iraqi military cited "the increasing concern from Russia about thousands of Russian terrorists committing criminal acts within ISIS."

The news comes amid U.S. concerns about Russia's recent military buildup in Syria and would appear to confirm American suspicions of some kind of cooperation between Baghdad and Moscow.

A U.S.-led coalition has been carrying out an aerial bombing campaign against ISIS positions in Iraq and Syria since last year. But now Russia is upping its presence in the region.

U.S. President Barack Obama is scheduled to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday for the first time in nearly a year to discuss Moscow's plans in Syria....

[Gothorum]

I do not usually agree with many of the political decisions of Putin, but this time I have to admit that doing the right thing by punishing.

The attack in France is nothing more than a warning, and tells us that they can kill innocent people anywhere in the world.

[n3o111]

I do not usually agree with many of the political decisions of Putin, but this time I have to admit that doing the right thing by punishing.

The attack in France is nothing more than a warning, and tells us that they can kill innocent people anywhere in the world.

I'm sorry I don't get your logic here. How come you compare "A ban on some goods and forbids extensions of labor contracts for Turks working in Russia" to terrorism in Paris from their own FRENCH citizens? I think you didn't read the thread or wrote to wrong thread.

[galdur]

Those are some quite substantial swaths of green. Look how far into Turkey they stretch. Great opportunities wait to be exploited, will be interesting to follow in the next couple of years. The Kurds are a great enemy.

[croato]

Putin have right to do it not just cause that cowardly move of Turks, but cause Turks are helping ISIS all time. If USA cant control his dog, someone must at least teach him lesson in manners.

[galdur]

This position looks really great. It seems to play itself for Russia. Turkey just blundered badly



----------------------------------------------------

Honor is priceless

The Russian vow to punish the Turkish economy has yet to be fully detailed, but at stake is a $30 billion trade relationship that, while also important to Russia, is existential for Turkey.

Russia needs the roughly $4 billion worth of fruits and vegetables it has been buying in Turkey since the sanctions, but it will find such produce in other warm countries, just like it will find alternative clients for the $1.5 billion in grains that it sold Turkey last year.

Turkey’s tourist resorts are certainly not crucial for Moscow, even though 3.3 million Russians vacationed there last year. To the Turks, however, the Russian tourists are crucial because they comprise a full one tenth of annual tourist arrivals.

Russia’s economic disruptions are doubly harmful because Turkey, unlike Russia, is socially restive, due to the Kurdish problem and the Syrian civil war. Farmers whose harvests will lose the Russian market, and employees of the hotels and restaurants that will soon lose their Russian clientele, will join those Turks who already grapple with more than a million Syrian refugees’ pressure on the Turkish labor market.

Meanwhile, Russia will assist and incite Turkey’s rebellious Kurds while also loudly backing the Cypriots in their conflict with Turkey, not to mention the Armenians, who have historically been the latter’s proxy and the former’s foe.

Things can get altogether nasty if Russia stops its gas supplies, which dominate the two countries’ trade.

Yes, $20 billion is a lot of money even for Russia, but it’s not the kind of sum it can’t afford to lose. Turkey, on the other hand, if deprived of Russia’s gas, will nearly come to a standstill. Not only does Russia supply more than half of Turkey’s fuel, Erdogan is at loggerheads with the main alternative suppliers: Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Gulf states, since he supported the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood; Iran, since he demanded its proxy Bashar Assad’s removal; and Israel, since the Mavi Marmara incident in 2010.

Russia’s sanctions for now exclude gas supplies, and also the four nuclear reactors it agreed to build in Turkey for $20 billion and the TurkStream pipeline project that is meant to lead Russian gas to Turkey across the Black Sea. Still, judging by his past conduct Putin will not hesitate to close the spigot, the way he did repeatedly to Ukraine since 2005.

Moreover, when Europe responded to his Crimean adventure with sanctions, Putin not only failed to back down, he fired sanctions of his own, banning some $12 billion worth of annual food imports from the countries sanctioning Russia.

In other words, when faced with a choice between national honor and financial loss, Putin chooses honor.

Turkey has therefore all the reason in the world to fear that Russia’s economic pressure has hardly begun, and will not abate until someone in Ankara does what neither Putin nor Erdogan has ever done: surrender.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-russia-will-overpower-turkey-2015-12-02

[Balthazar]

Russia needs the roughly $4 billion worth of fruits and vegetables it has been buying in Turkey since the sanctions, but it will find such produce in other warm countries, just like it will find alternative clients for the $1.5 billion in grains that it sold Turkey last year.

Abkhazia will be happy.

[galdur]

Isn´t it strange how all this uproar is going on in a tiny space in fringe territory on this huge land mass below. And some attention starved islanders off an insignificant peninsula are making noise just now. I must yawn.

[Balthazar]

“We were prepared to cooperate with Turkey on most sensitive issues and go further than their allies. Allah knows why they did it. Apparently Allah decided to punish the ruling clique in Turkey by taking their sanity”

- Putin

[galdur]

Yeah, something definitely made them take leave of their senses, no doubt about that. But they are allied with people in NATO, whose psychiatric evaluations are state secrets until the 23rd century, which probably helped.

Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad. That´s ancient proverb. It´s an idea.

[zenitzz]

Russia won't forget downed jet, Putin warns Turkey in annual address

Russian president says Ankara will not ‘get away with a tomato ban’ in response to ‘cynical war crime’

Vladimir Putin used his annual address to Russia’s political elite to warn Turkey’s leaders that Moscow would never forget last week’s downing of a Russian fighter jet.

The Russian president said he was still bemused by the Turkish decision to shoot down the Su-24. He said: “Perhaps only Allah knows why they did this. And it seems Allah decided to punish the ruling clique in Turkey by relieving them of their sense and judgment.”

Russia has implemented a series of economic sanctions against Turkey, including banning fruit and vegetable imports and ordering Russian tour operators not to send tourists to the country. Putin emphasised that this limited response was not an attempt to move on and start afresh, however.

“There will not be a nervous, hysterical reaction, that would be dangerous for us and for the whole world,” he said. “We will not engage in sabre rattling. But if people think that after carrying out a cynical war crime, killing our people, they’ll get away with a tomato ban or some limits in the construction sector, they’re very wrong. We will keep remembering what they did. And they will keep regretting it.”

The day before, Russia’s defence ministry had called journalists to a briefing at its command centre, showing slides and satellite imagery claiming to show proof that Turkey was profiting from the trade in Isis oil.

“A unified team of bandits and Turkish elites operates in the region to steal oil from their neighbours,” deputy defence minister Anatoly Antonov said on Wednesday. Erdoğan later dismissed the accusations as “slander”.

On Thursday, the Turkish leader made a mirror accusation, claiming Turkey had evidence of Russian involvement in oil trade with Isis.

Putin started his annual address by thanking Russian members of the forces “fighting international terrorism”. He said Russia had known what terrorism was over the years and said the current Russian campaign in Syria was “a fight for freedom, truth and justice”. The widows of the marine and pilot killed after Turkey shot the plane down were in the audience.

Also present in the lavish Kremlin hall were ministers, MPs, religious leaders and other pro-government figures such as the Surgeon, leader of the Night Wolves biker gang.

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/turkey-will-keep-regretting-shooting-down-jet-vladimir-putin

[alrachid]

Assad kills rebels, assad has oil, assad sells is one of russias oil allies. Since annexation of Crimea and more sanctions the rubble has halved in value vs USD. Russia is relying heavily on oil, and his strongest oil ally cannot fall. There is much at stake here and the skirmishes are going to heat as as more information becomes public.

[Balthazar]

There is much at stake here and the skirmishes are going to heat as as more information becomes public.

You mean information about these trucks heading from IS to Turkey? Hahaha, keep trying.

[Balthazar]

This position looks really great. It seems to play itself for Russia. Turkey just blundered badly

[galdur]

Black plays Nd4! White loses the queen for the two knights, a hopeless situation, or saves her and suffers a quick and forced checkmate. White resigns.

[galdur]

Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

-----------------------------------

1,250 trucks carrying Turkish exports blocked at Russian border: Shipping association

Some 1,250 trucks transferring Turkish goods have been blocked from entering Russia and are stranded at border posts, a Turkish shipping association says. ....

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/11/30/439795/Russia-Turkey-Syria-Putin-terrorist-

[bryant.coleman]

Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

The article says that now the trucks will be re-routed through Azerbaijan. But how will they reach Kazakhstan from Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan is bordered by Russia to the north, and Iran to the South. Are they going to travel through Iran? That is very unlikely. The terrain is very steep, the roads are really bad, and the Iranians don't share warm relations with Turkey.

[galdur]

Excellent. Delays, cumbersome alternate transport routes to Central Asia, increased costs, that has to hurt.

The article says that now the trucks will be re-routed through Azerbaijan. But how will they reach Kazakhstan from Azerbaijan? Azerbaijan is bordered by Russia to the north, and Iran to the South. Are they going to travel through Iran? That is very unlikely. The terrain is very steep, the roads are really bad, and the Iranians don't share warm relations with Turkey.

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

[Balthazar]

Hehe, first shipment of syrian oranges and lemons to Russia,  800 tons approximately.

http://rusnovosti.ru/posts/398611

[bryant.coleman]

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

The Turkish military toppling Erdogan? I don't think so. The Turkish Armed Forces used to be a staunchly secular institution. But that was almost a decade ago. Now Erdogan has purged the army of all the secular officers and replaced them with the pro-ISIS types and ultra-nationalists. Right now, the military is solidly behind Erdogan.

[galdur]

That´s their problem. I´m sure they´ll find a very expensive solution. Probably in a few months the military will take over and hopefully clean house. Later, if some people that have both oars in the water can be found to be in charge of this basket case, maybe relations with Russia will return to normal. Time will tell.

The Turkish military toppling Erdogan? I don't think so. The Turkish Armed Forces used to be a staunchly secular institution. But that was almost a decade ago. Now Erdogan has purged the army of all the secular officers and replaced them with the pro-ISIS types and ultra-nationalists. Right now, the military is solidly behind Erdogan.

Yeah, I could have guessed that he´d taken steps be fully nutcase staffed to ensure total and indestructible happiness in Turkey-NATO relations. Like works well with like. Now it fits perfectly together like turd and #####le.

[Balthazar]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/04/state-dept-rejects-russia-s-claims-that-turkey-smuggling-isis-oil.html

Ahaha, what a bunch of shit 

[countryfree]

For the first time in my life, I fully support Putin. I know Turkey is a NATO member and that it has close ties with the EU, but it's time to realize this country do not belong to the western world. Istanbul is a quite modern city, but the rest of the country is third world at best, islamist at worst. And Erdogan is definitely an islamist.

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. If it ever joins the EU, the whole thing will crash.

[galdur]

For the first time in my life, I fully support Putin. I know Turkey is a NATO member and that it has close ties with the EU, but it's time to realize this country do not belong to the western world. Istanbul is a quite modern city, but the rest of the country is third world at best, islamist at worst. And Erdogan is definitely an islamist.

Turkey should be kicked out of NATO. If it ever joins the EU, the whole thing will crash.

Of course it will crash. That´s the plan. Russia´s great strength is that she is always underestimated. Which  makes it very easy for them to help the opposition dig their own graves. If for example Obama and the motley  crew that advises him knew chess from cheeseburgers and had a clue about strategy they´d be more careful in dealing with the Russians. NATO leadership? They´re easy, it´s just another garbage dumpster for politicians past their expiry date. They don´t know their ass from the elbow. Putin´s dog could teach them tricks, maybe.

It will crash and NATO will crash and the former Warsaw block and probably Germany and Greece will drift towards Russia and with it also get closer with Russia´s great partner China. Just a question of time.

[bryant.coleman]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/04/state-dept-rejects-russia-s-claims-that-turkey-smuggling-isis-oil.html
Ahaha, what a bunch of shit 

Seems like Obama and Erdogan are the only ones who still believe that ISIS oil is not flowing in to Turkey. Russia has provided the media with enough evidence to prove that tankers and container trucks carrying ISIS oil are crossing the Syria-Turkey border frequently. Obviously, the Americans are also involved in this, which explains why they are so quick to defend the Turks.

[Ayoko]

On a different perspective, it's putin vs the world.

And putin is the good guy. who's gonna ally with who? Is everyone the bad guy or good guy?

[galdur]

On a different perspective, it's putin vs the world.

And putin is the good guy. who's gonna ally with who? Is everyone the bad guy or good guy?

It´s definitely not Putin and Russia against the world. I can´t imagine anyone with a pulse taking much seriously of what has been coming from Obama and cameron and some other leading lights in the rest of the world. Given their record. Serial-liars end up without any credibility at all eventually I guess.

[johnsmith1964]

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

[galdur]

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

[johnsmith1964]

Hmm, ok i agree.

It does look like both sides will lose money. There does seem to be a few energy deals on the table, so yes you are correct that turkey may lose out more than russia. But i still think russia is still much more unstable than russia.

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

[galdur]

Last I checked 1250 trucks heading for Central Asia were stuck at the Russian border. Maybe there´s 2000 there now for all I know. Trucks full of cargo that don´t move, what´s not to like about that.

[galdur]

Hmm, ok i agree.

It does look like both sides will lose money. There does seem to be a few energy deals on the table, so yes you are correct that turkey may lose out more than russia. But i still think russia is still much more unstable than russia.

Turkey is actually very lucky to be a member of NATO. It can rely on its allies if it is attacked.

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

Yeah, i can´t imagine that loss of dozens of billions of dollars in business will do much harm to Turkey. Also closed export routes will be great for Turkish exporters. Ballooning costs are always good for business. And since Turkey is an exceptionally stable country as it is, those benefits will only make it even more stable.

Where do you figure that Turkey is going to get gas from if Russia turns that off? Hint: They don´t really have any gas producing friends in the region, which is understandable in light of their behavior in the last years supporting extremists here and there.

They´re just lucky that Russia supplies ONLY HALF of their fuel otherwise they could get in real trouble.

[galdur]

The Tipping Point.

It´s official: Nobody at all, both sides of the Atlantic believes these yokels anymore.

Thus, belatedly:

Obama, Cameron Agree Syrian Political Settlement Must Involve Russia, Iran

Sputnik International  2:03 pm

UK Prime Minister David Cameron and US President Barack Obama agreed that the settlement of the Syrian crisis must involve Russia and Iran, Downing street said in a Sunday statement.

[bryant.coleman]

Its allies will stick up for turkey and the EU especially does try to help Turkey a lot. Also in terms of what Russia is going to do it is all just posturing, Russia's economy is is already weakened and these sanctions against Turkey will hardly make a difference.

There is no guarantee that the European Union will help Turkey beyond a certain point. The EU has enough problems of its own, with some of its member nations (Greece, Spain, Portugal.etc) close to bankruptcy. Also, they are struggling to deal with the huge migration inflow, which is likely to cost them at least EUR 100 billion per year from 2017 onward.