Jinn/IOTA - What is really going on?

[iotatoken]

I been googling trying to find out what Jinn Labs is and I reached the following thread. And interesting in this post from 2014, you CfB mentioned the CAP theorem:

https://nxtforum.org/index.php?topic=5545.msg106294#msg106294

I still have no concrete idea what Jinn Labs is (haven't read the entire thread). The website http://www.jinnlabs.com/ doesn't function.

Also is the only point of the following that you are proposing hardware based on a 3-valued bit (trinary) instead of a normal 2-bit (binary) machine?

https://github.com/JinnLabs/SaM/blob/master/src/SaM.java

The Jinn project is indeed a hardware processor project, we're developing trinary-async processor.

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[Come-from-Beyond]

And interesting in this post from 2014, you CfB mentioned the CAP theorem...

Jinn processor supports Distributed Computing on hardware level, it can't beat CAP theorem but it can reduce its negative consequences to some degree.

[TPTB_need_war]

And all this just for a zero chance to charge 50'000 USD penalty?

In the sister thread of my securities law thread, someone who claimed to be often consulting with securities law attorneys pointed out that Erik Voorhees escaped severe criminal proceedings only because he refunded all the money to the investors before the SEC could finalize their actions.

So it was much more costly than some $50,000 fine. The level of financial culpability apparently depends on the level of losses and investmentparticipation you are creating. The culpability for jail time is not so limited, especially if someone willfully violates securities law. Again no specific allegations of your case (IANAL). Erik got lucky. Maybe because his scheme was not so willfully snubbing the regulators. Yet you have CfB here acting like his Romanian cohort Mircea Popescu, who I (as AnonyMint) warned the USG will eventually "burn his finger tips up to his armpits".

Hey Putin is part of the same globalist club and this current charade is only temporary and then we will all fall into the NWO together. That is when they will burn your ass over there in Belarus.

Don't forget it was Larry Summers who was over there in Russia after the fall of the USSR to organize the distribution of the nationalized assets to the selected oligarchs who are loyal to the globalist club. Do a Youtube search on Anthony Sutton. Also "Princess of the Orient".

Don't forget who funded the Bolshevik revolution. The globalists are running the show.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Aye, NWO is inevitable. Luckily, laws are not retroactive.

[TPTB_need_war]

I also doubt the globalists (or even some petty official of the hegemony) has a big incentive to go after you retroactively, but what sort of marketing image does this create for your product that you guys are playing geopolitical hide-and-seek strategies. It is like a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

Come on if you want to be taken seriously in business at global scale, then you don't act like a Russian mob. You embrace the norms that the mainstream of society is in.

It seems like maybe you are technically talented, but you are shooting yourself in the foot by trying to play legal games.

Why not just create your technology and win on the merits. If you need funding, then go for angel investment. There are ways to go unregistered that aren't illegal in any major jurisdiction.

I liked your name Iota and your logo. Seemed you have some talents in marketing also.

I believe one thing you can do to comply with US securities law is just make sure all the purchasers of the Jinn shares have been verified to not be US citizens and for the ones that are US citizens have them sign a waiver stating they are a "sophisticated investors". Check with your attorney.

That is my 2 cents. Now I am out of this. Got to get back focused on my work.

[Come-from-Beyond]

It seems like maybe you are technically talented, but you are shooting yourself in the foot by trying to play legal games.

Iota is run under EU jurisdiction, no problem for USA citizens here. Noone plays legal games in Jinn, it would be so if I wanted to scam someone, but I stick to what promised. If USA citizens have problem with this, well, maybe they should visit a psychotherapist (I've heard every USA citizen has one) and he will explain that there are other jurisdictions and USA is not the center of the universe. It would be silly to comply to USA laws for a guy from Russian block, wouldn't it?

[iotatoken]

I also doubt the globalists (or even some petty official of the hegemony) has a big incentive to go after you retroactively, but what sort of marketing image does this create for your product that you guys are playing geopolitical hide-and-seek strategies. It is like a Tom and Jerry cartoon.

Come on if you want to be taken seriously in business at global scale, then you don't act like a Russian mob. You embrace the norms that the mainstream of society is in.

It seems like maybe you are technically talented, but you are shooting yourself in the foot by trying to play legal games.

Why not just create your technology and win on the merits. If you need funding, then go for angel investment. There are ways to go unregistered that aren't illegal in any major jurisdiction.

I liked your name Iota and your logo. Seemed you have some talents in marketing also.

I believe one thing you can do to comply with US securities law is just make sure all the purchasers of the Jinn shares have been verified to not be US citizens and for the ones that are US citizens have them sign a waiver stating they are a "sophisticated investors". Check with your attorney.

That is my 2 cents. Now I am out of this. Got to get back focused on my work.

All legal, marketing, branding, strategy, operational stuff in IOTA is my sole responsibility. CfB is talking about early JINN tokens, not the hardware project in its entirety. We know exactly what we're doing and go by the rules with registered company and eventually 'traditional VC funding route' as we have explained a billion times. This is what happens when you bite the bait of a notorious liar and troll, you think there is controversy where there is none, you think there is lacking info, eventhough the info has been widely available for over a year. I appreicate that you are trying to use your interest in legalities to 'clean up' the somewhat shady space that is crypto, but you have identified the wrong party here. Now we all lay this dead and leave it to the trolls. Thanks

[TPTB_need_war]

My suggestion is please get your website up with everything explained in one place.

[iotatoken]

My suggestion is please get your website up with everything explained in one place.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we got it 100% under control. The only confused party here are outsiders and trolls that got nothing to do with this. Now please stop interfering with something you got nothing to do with.

[TPTB_need_war]

My suggestion is please get your website up with everything explained in one place.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we got it 100% under control. The only confused party here are outsiders and trolls that got nothing to do with this. Now please stop interfering with something you got nothing to do with.

Thanks for saying thanks, but I must point that you don't have it under control when I can't even locate the damn information quickly. Sorry. Okay I will butt out. I don't have any stake at all in this other than to observe and learn as a cohort altcoin developer.

Be sure I don't feel any competition whatsoever from Iota, because our marketing strategies and technical focuses are orthogonal (non overlapping to any significant extent in terms of the demographics and use-case we are each targeting). I am only here to discuss securities law and ramifications as it is applies to altcoin developers and their markets.

[iotatoken]

My suggestion is please get your website up with everything explained in one place.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we got it 100% under control. The only confused party here are outsiders and trolls that got nothing to do with this. Now please stop interfering with something you got nothing to do with.

Thanks for saying thanks, but I must point that you don't have it under control when I can't even locate the damn information quickly. Sorry. Okay I will butt out. I don't have any stake at all in this other than to observe and learn as a cohort altcoin developer.

Be sure I don't feel any competition whatsoever from Iota, because our marketing strategies and technical focuses are orthogonal (non overlapping to any significant extent in terms of the demographics and use-case we are each targeting). I am only here to discuss securities law and ramifications as it is applies to altcoin developers and their markets.

Yes we do, the info was readily available for every person it was relevant to over a year ago. That's all that matters. As for the only relevant info now is the JINN:IOTA swap, which is 100% available for every person. Respond to the PM, because this has gone too far.

[TPTB_need_war]

My suggestion is please get your website up with everything explained in one place.

Thanks for the suggestion, but we got it 100% under control. The only confused party here are outsiders and trolls that got nothing to do with this. Now please stop interfering with something you got nothing to do with.

Thanks for saying thanks, but I must point that you don't have it under control when I can't even locate the damn information quickly. Sorry. Okay I will butt out. I don't have any stake at all in this other than to observe and learn as a cohort altcoin developer.

Be sure I don't feel any competition whatsoever from Iota, because our marketing strategies and technical focuses are orthogonal (non overlapping to any significant extent in terms of the demographics and use-case we are each targeting). I am only here to discuss securities law and ramifications as it is applies to altcoin developers and their markets.

Yes we do, the info was readily available for every person it was relevant to over a year ago. That's all that matters. As for the only relevant info now is the JINN:IOTA swap, which is 100% available for every person. Respond to the PM, because this has gone too far.

Apologies I have 8 10 messages in my PM queue and haven't opened PMs in several days because I am busy and I want to be reminded to check it by the notification at the top. If I open, then I loose the notication, so I will wait to open once I am ready to process those.

I don't understand what has gone too far. I guess I will understand after reading your PM.

I am merely commenting as any person who might be interested in Iota would be. I would be curious about the principals, background, plans, etc..

I am merely making a marketing suggestion to you that it would help if that information was coherently explained all in one place. You are free to ignore my "potential user of Iota" feedback.

I don't understand how threatening legal action against your potential users is good for your marketing. Come on man, cool down. I understand this may be a very serious legal issue for you, and thus I better just shut up because apparently you are extremely paranoid.

Geez man, I am just a forum person making some observations and comments. But apparently I touched a nerve.

Let's end it here. I will get around to the PMs soon. No bad feelings please. Sorry to hear if you have such a legal status that you need to be so paranoid. I surely hope I don't get myself into such a predicament which is precisely why I have been doing the discussion on these sort of securities issues, so I could learn and share.

Open source. But again I understand for you, this appears to be a very serious legal discussion. So I end here. Adios.

Let's both cool down. I'll follow up on PMs soon.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

Do you understand that these two statements are contradictory?

Already explained upthread.

He follows legal advice of the lawyer, so he is fine I think. Read http://188.138.57.93/tos.pdf and http://188.138.57.93/risk.pdf if you need the details.

It's hard to prove that David violated EU/US laws (which didn't happen) when everybody knows that JINN was initiated solely by me. I doubt a USA prosecutor will spend a lot of time on a case where monopoly money (NXT) were handed over to a guy from Russia (which hides Snowden the Enemy #1) whose official reply to any official requests from USA/EU is "FUCK OFF". And all this just for a zero chance to charge 50'000 USD penalty? I don't think you believe in this.

If you say that Jinn holders, after the redemption period for IOTA is over, will be "transferred legal profit-shares", then I believe you.  I think you are an honest, decent guy CfB, but in all seriousness, I don't think either of you have any idea of the legal ramifications involved.  Hopefully David is getting good legal advice, because I even though I don't like him, it would still be unfortunate if he was prosecuted because of this.  I know a lot of bad attorneys that have now become bad insurance salesmen.  Please make sure you get proper, decent legal counsel.

We called IOTA a cryptocurrency in the beginning due to it not being a legal term. We have been in crypto for years, so the term is ingrained in our brain as a casual way to talk about cryptographical tokens. However, since we began work on IOTA EU changed it's stance on what a cryptocurrency is and thus we had to update it BEFORE the sale. It's 100% an issue of terminology and law. You have been informed of this 1000 times, but you keep going on about it in a pathetic: "GOTCHA!!!!!" troll loser way, because you truly got absolutely no reason to exist if you can't troll someone. According to yourself, you have been banned from this forum for trying to peddle a cheap troll Nxt clone called Nexx back in the day and you have been banned at Nxtforum for spamming, stalking, slandering and death threats. I think it's time to grow up and get a good ol' life.
IOTA is software, nothing more and nothing less. AS HAS BEEN STATED EVERY SINGLE TIME since we launched it. Now I will demand your legal name, if you are serious and not just a troll, this will be no problem. If however you elect not to hand it over, it is unequivocally an admission of you being a useless troll.

My point is of course that you are changing the terms to suit your exposure to your legal culpability.  Granted, laws change and I can see how that necessitated the change from "cryptocurrency" to "non-cryptocurrency", but what is your excuse for stating that people who purchased "profit-shares" (your words) in Jinn are now "NOT investors" after the sale?  The only reason for this of course is an ill-fated attempt to reduce your legal exposure.  This tells me that you are getting bad legal advice or consulted with your attorneys after the initial Jinn sale.

That's right, officially, 2Kool4Skewl was banned from this forum for mockingly creating a thread for my own cryptocurrency called NEXX (a fairer clone of FrictionlessCoin's NEX), but anybody who looks up NEXX can see that it's a total joke in which I didn't steal a single satoshi.  The reason I was banned from NXT Forum is because the mods didn't like my opinions and take everything way too seriously.  I never sent anybody a death threat.  I did send Farl4bit, a mod, this picture:



"Kill yourself" isn't a death threat, it is a suggestion that he commits suicide.  I also never "spammed, stalked or slandered" anyone.  Please, get your facts straight.

[TPTB_need_war]

---8<---

Also is the only point of the following that you are proposing hardware based on a 3-valued bit (trinary) instead of a normal 2-bit (binary) machine?

https://github.com/JinnLabs/SaM/blob/master/src/SaM.java

Btw, regarding your use of statistics to claim some properties of a hash function:

http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/34523/is-it-appropriate-to-use-haveged-as-a-source-of-entropy-on-virtual-machines#comment92979_34552

I may also add that I have some reservations about trusting people for implementing a PRNG, when they show that their framework for testing their results is statistical tests, which, by definition, are terrible for cryptographic usages. This does not bode well.

Cryptographers use detailed and thorough peer review to get some assurance that their design is not obviously bad. Now that's not really great. My point, though, is that statistical tests are terrible at evaluating security. Such tests can only detect extremely poor and weak PRNG. It is easy to make a PRNG which will pass all such tests (hey, even a LFSR can do it). From a cryptographer's point of view, it is not even worth reporting. To make an analogy: it looks like a car manufacturer who publishes big ads stating that his cars are great because he has ve-ri-fied that they have wheels.

I realize you were only modeling it as a "transformation function", but depending on the intended usage, those statistics may not being stating much. I didn't really dig in enough to know... just saw that from Tom Leek and thought I'd pass it along...

[benthach]

sorry no one care, it's just a get rich quick scam crap that no one would bother. idea after idea of get rich quick scam throwing around and jinno/tota is no different. LOL, the name, it sound perfect. this get rich quick scam altcoin world sound just like fairy tale.

adoption! adoption! adoptoin! adoption! and adoption!
any altcoins of having any mass adoption at this point is 0%. ah, trading and hype only.
remember the paycoin walmart, bestbuy and amazon etc... etc.. scam? LOL

[DecentralizeEconomics]

sorry no one care, it's just a get rich quick scam crap that no one would bother. idea after idea of get rich quick scam throwing around and jinno/tota is no different. LOL, the name, it sound perfect. this get rich quick scam altcoin world sound just like fairy tale.

adoption! adoption! adoptoin! adoption! and adoption!
any altcoins of having any mass adoption at this point is 0%. ah, trading and hype only.
remember the paycoin walmart, bestbuy and amazon etc... etc.. scam? LOL

This is different than paycon.  Paycon was a 110% scam built on a mountain of lies. 

Triangle is an actual company, Jinn is an actual attempt at creating marketable ternary hardware and IOTA is actual software not vaporware.  I might not agree with David on some issues, but this is a legitimate company with real products.  You and I might not think that there is a large market for this type of hardware/software, but that does not make it "get rich quick scam crap".  This substantially better than a lot of other alt coins / crypto businesses because they are a real enterprise actually trying to do something unique.

[benthach]

sorry no one care, it's just a get rich quick scam crap that no one would bother. idea after idea of get rich quick scam throwing around and jinno/tota is no different. LOL, the name, it sound perfect. this get rich quick scam altcoin world sound just like fairy tale.

adoption! adoption! adoptoin! adoption! and adoption!
any altcoins of having any mass adoption at this point is 0%. ah, trading and hype only.
remember the paycoin walmart, bestbuy and amazon etc... etc.. scam? LOL

This is different than paycon.  Paycon was a 110% scam built on a mountain of lies.  

Triangle is an actual company, Jinn is an actual attempt at creating marketable ternary hardware and IOTA is actual software not vaporware.  I might not agree with David on some issues, but this is a legitimate company with real products.  You and I might not think that there is a large market for this type of hardware/software, but that does not make it "get rich quick scam crap".  This substantially better than a lot of other alt coins / crypto businesses because they are a real enterprise actually trying to do something unique.

you need to be smarter than this.
paycon, paycoin or iota/jinto are all the same
i don't reply to all the dumb/stupid/nonsense threads that don't mean i haven't read it. the level of ignorance and dumbness in crypto is way beyond anyone would think.

paycoin, gaw miners and paycon. let me know the different, similarity and how they're related to one another. you can just ignore my inquiry but chance is i would ignore your crap just like i have ignored thousands of other craps like your.

the story of this reply is just to proved you're one ignorant moron or just greed/scam have blinded you. you think i wouldn't know what is paycoin or paycon.
i have seen it all and chance i've warned majority of them.

hint; gaw miners is a legitimate scam company, well, just like your triangle.

[DecentralizeEconomics]

sorry no one care, it's just a get rich quick scam crap that no one would bother. idea after idea of get rich quick scam throwing around and jinno/tota is no different. LOL, the name, it sound perfect. this get rich quick scam altcoin world sound just like fairy tale.

adoption! adoption! adoptoin! adoption! and adoption!
any altcoins of having any mass adoption at this point is 0%. ah, trading and hype only.
remember the paycoin walmart, bestbuy and amazon etc... etc.. scam? LOL

This is different than paycon.  Paycon was a 110% scam built on a mountain of lies.  

Triangle is an actual company, Jinn is an actual attempt at creating marketable ternary hardware and IOTA is actual software not vaporware.  I might not agree with David on some issues, but this is a legitimate company with real products.  You and I might not think that there is a large market for this type of hardware/software, but that does not make it "get rich quick scam crap".  This substantially better than a lot of other alt coins / crypto businesses because they are a real enterprise actually trying to do something unique.

you need to be smarter than this.
paycon, paycoin or iota/jinto are all the same
i don't reply to all the dumb/stupid/nonsense threads that don't mean i haven't read it. the level of ignorance and dumbness in crypto is way beyond anyone would think.

paycoin, gaw miners and paycon. let me know the different, similarity and how they're related to one another. you can just ignore my inquiry but chance is i would ignore your crap just like i have ignored thousands of other craps like your.

the story of this reply is just to proved you're one ignorant moron or just greed/scam have blinded you. you think i wouldn't know what is paycoin or paycon.
i have seen it all and chance i've warned majority of them.

hint; gaw miners is a legitimate scam company, well, just like your triangle.

I've been in crypto a long time too and seen a lot of scams.  Imo, Triangle is trying to be a legitimate company with legitimate products.  Paycoin / Gaw Miners was started to perpetuate a scam on novices.  They are two totally different things.  I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I think Triangle / Jinn / Iota is a good investment and will make you money because I think imo they have a lot of hurdles to overcome.  I'm not an investor in any of them, Triangle, Jinn or Iota.  But, I'm not going to say that they are a scam though because that would be an outright lie.  Imo, they have good intentions to deliver on their promises.

[benthach]

sorry no one care, it's just a get rich quick scam crap that no one would bother. idea after idea of get rich quick scam throwing around and jinno/tota is no different. LOL, the name, it sound perfect. this get rich quick scam altcoin world sound just like fairy tale.

adoption! adoption! adoptoin! adoption! and adoption!
any altcoins of having any mass adoption at this point is 0%. ah, trading and hype only.
remember the paycoin walmart, bestbuy and amazon etc... etc.. scam? LOL

This is different than paycon.  Paycon was a 110% scam built on a mountain of lies.  

Triangle is an actual company, Jinn is an actual attempt at creating marketable ternary hardware and IOTA is actual software not vaporware.  I might not agree with David on some issues, but this is a legitimate company with real products.  You and I might not think that there is a large market for this type of hardware/software, but that does not make it "get rich quick scam crap".  This substantially better than a lot of other alt coins / crypto businesses because they are a real enterprise actually trying to do something unique.

you need to be smarter than this.
paycon, paycoin or iota/jinto are all the same
i don't reply to all the dumb/stupid/nonsense threads that don't mean i haven't read it. the level of ignorance and dumbness in crypto is way beyond anyone would think.

paycoin, gaw miners and paycon. let me know the different, similarity and how they're related to one another. you can just ignore my inquiry but chance is i would ignore your crap just like i have ignored thousands of other craps like your.

the story of this reply is just to proved you're one ignorant moron or just greed/scam have blinded you. you think i wouldn't know what is paycoin or paycon.
i have seen it all and chance i've warned majority of them.

hint; gaw miners is a legitimate scam company, well, just like your triangle.

I've been in crypto a long time too and seen a lot of scams.  Imo, Triangle is trying to be a legitimate company with legitimate products.  Paycoin / Gaw Miners was started to perpetuate a scam on novices.  They are two totally different things.  I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I think Triangle / Jinn / Iota is a good investment and will make you money because I think imo they have a lot of hurdles to overcome.  I'm not an investor in any of them, Triangle, Jinn or Iota.  But, I'm not going to say that they are a scam though because that would be an outright lie.  Imo, they have good intentions to deliver on their promises.

yes, the promises of getting rich first then moving on. i already figured  this is just a shill thread to bring a shit idea out of a rat hole. one crack and i got my answer

[Come-from-Beyond]

Btw, regarding your use of statistics to claim some properties of a hash function:

http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/34523/is-it-appropriate-to-use-haveged-as-a-source-of-entropy-on-virtual-machines#comment92979_34552

I may also add that I have some reservations about trusting people for implementing a PRNG, when they show that their framework for testing their results is statistical tests, which, by definition, are terrible for cryptographic usages. This does not bode well.

Cryptographers use detailed and thorough peer review to get some assurance that their design is not obviously bad. Now that's not really great. My point, though, is that statistical tests are terrible at evaluating security. Such tests can only detect extremely poor and weak PRNG. It is easy to make a PRNG which will pass all such tests (hey, even a LFSR can do it). From a cryptographer's point of view, it is not even worth reporting. To make an analogy: it looks like a car manufacturer who publishes big ads stating that his cars are great because he has ve-ri-fied that they have wheels.

I realize you were only modeling it as a "transformation function", but depending on the intended usage, those statistics may not being stating much. I didn't really dig in enough to know... just saw that from Tom Leek and thought I'd pass it along...

The creators of Keccak (SHA-3) proved that a hash function based on the sponge construction is as secure as its transformation function. This isn't true for LFSR and Merkle-Damgard. The quote talks about PRNG, of course, noone will base security proof of a hash function on its statistical tests, but these tests are the must to show how good confusion and diffusion are.