Catastrophic Solar Flare Erases All Soft Memory

[dscotese]

Sorry for the alarming headline.

Google reports a single result for "hardcopy of the blockchain".  So I figured we might find such a phrase useful. I have looked a little into the possibility that all copies of the blockchain could be destroyed by an EMP (very unlikely, it seems), or by a solar flare (more likely, but still seems remote).

Would there be a few heroes who could produce tens of GBs of data with the special properties of the blockchain that make it uniquely identifiable in the event such a catastrophe occurred?  Do I want to be one of them?  Sure, why not.  I need like 10 DVDs and a day or three to burn them.

Honestly, though, I was hoping for some replies that say "Check out [link]" where such an effort is already being undertaken.

[1713913995]

1713913995

[1713913995]

1713913995

[fenican]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

[Kakmakr]

You would have to repeat the backup process for that every day, to have a updated version of the Blockchain. Why not rather build your own Faraday cage, and be protected from those pesky EMP's? Here is a link to start you on your journey to a EMP free zone, http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/build-your-own-faraday-cage-heres-how/

I guess there are loads of them out there and some government and private companies have invested in this already.

[TeamAgar]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

This.  Bitcoin won't matter if we get knocked back into the the dark age.

[NorrisK]

There must be dozens of backups around the globe in multiple data centers that are protected from this kind of catastrophic events.

Also, I thought EMP will only destory RUNNING electrical devices. A harddrive that is off, should still be working right? That would mean that a huge part can still excist, atleast partially.

[unamis76]

Build satellites to orbit around several planets and keep them with updated copies of the blockchain

Speaking more seriously, cages, bunkers etc would be a pretty good solution to keep it stored safely. There are many copies around that make it unlikely that the blockchain will be totally erased...

[bit tired]

You can burn 50GB onto a dual-layer blu-ray disc and they are becoming more commonplace now. I haven't checked the size of the blockchain recently but it's not over 50GB yet is it? There must be people doing backups onto blu-ray discs to save them sync time if their wallet's blockchain becomes corrupt. If there was a solar flare those people would come forward with their copies of the blockchain if all else failed.

[notbatman]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

This.  Bitcoin won't matter if we get knocked back into the the dark age.

A functional monetary system on a wfi-fi mesh internet will help get things back to a civilized state a lot quicker than brick & mortar that's been smashed to dust. Of-coarse that doesn't work in the event of an EMP destroying all electronics.

[Kprawn]

I would be more worried about the whole internet network and the software running on routers and servers. The Blockchain would most probably survive, because a Solar flare will not affect the whole earth, but

a large portion of the networks on earth will suffer. We have done disaster recovery procedures at work and we have built in backup plans for most scenarios, including archived data on physical media.

I think the banking system, might be influenced a lot more that Bitcoin and you will have riots when this happens and people cannot access their money at ATM's.

[QuestionAuthority]

I'm not sure if it's still happening but Jeff Garzik was releasing a blockchain torrent periodically. That compressed torrent could be copied off on to hardened drive and stored at regular intervals.

There would be no motivation for any superpower to air burst EMPs over their own country and the blockchain is worldwide so that is off the table as a possible scenario.

Electromagnetic solar radiation never effects the entire planet at once. Think of it this way, is it daylight everywhere on the earth at the same time? A solar flair event would need to transmit the proper wavelength continuously for at least 12 hours to permanently destroy all electronic devices. Hardened devices such as stored in faraday cages, specially shielded or buried underground in bunkers would still survive. You're talking about an event that is so improbable the likelihood of it happening is comparable to a worldwide pandemic killing everyone on the planet with no survivors.

[maokoto]

I think it is not bad if someone dedicates time and effort to create a hard copy of the blockchain. Many people spend time and effort in other matters that are still less helpful.

However, it is likely that if an event erases all electric copies of Bitcoin, restoring Bitcoin would not be a major concern.

[Carlton Banks]

I'm not sure if it's still happening but Jeff Garzik was releasing a blockchain torrent periodically. That compressed torrent could be copied off on to hardened drive and stored at regular intervals.

I think he might have stopped that after 0.10.0, headers-first sort of negated the majority of the benefit. There used to be a stickied thread about the torrent on the board, but it's gone now (unsticky'ed). Possibly it's still going for a less important reason, not totally sure.

Another Garzik project might provide the complementary infrastructure required; the Bitcoin LEO block relay satellites project (I think it was called BitSats at one point). The base-stations for the satellites would need good connections to the hard-wired Bitcoin network. Because of the capability of the BitSats to route around the hard-wired network, and because they would eventually be distributed fairly evenly across the globe, they would make ideal facilities for blockchain archives using a variety of resilient storage mediums. Even just a massive brown-out could be mitigated with a structure like that in place.

There would be no motivation for any superpower to air burst EMPs over their own country and the blockchain is worldwide so that is off the table as a possible scenario.

Electromagnetic solar radiation never effects the entire planet at once. Think of it this way, is it daylight everywhere on the earth at the same time? A solar flair event would need to transmit the proper wavelength continuously for at least 12 hours to permanently destroy all electronic devices. Hardened devices such as stored in faraday cages, specially shielded or buried underground in bunkers would still survive. You're talking about an event that is so improbable the likelihood of it happening is comparable to a worldwide pandemic killing everyone on the planet with no survivors.

Yep. EMP is potentially very damaging, but cannot level total devastation. I think nuclear winter/fallout is the only real scenario under which all electronics could possibly be rendered inoperable, and those circumstances are right up there in the "you'll have more to worry about than x" stakes.

[dscotese]

There must be dozens of backups around the globe in multiple data centers that are protected from this kind of catastrophic events.

Also, I thought EMP will only destory RUNNING electrical devices. A harddrive that is off, should still be working right? That would mean that a huge part can still excist, atleast partially.

As I understand it, an EMP creates a wave of electrons in any medium that can hold electrons (any conductor).  Of course running electronics are more sensitive to such a wave, but any sensitive conductor (eg the pathways through an integrated circuit) would be influenced by the wave.  The way I imagine it is like how magicians in movies move water - or how them moon moves water in the tides.  An EMP is like an extra moon appearing a few kilometers away and creating a gigantic tidal wave in the oceans, and then disappearing, leaving the tidal wave to wreak whatever harm it may.  But we don't have an ocean of electrons anywhere, just pools and a long rivers (power transmission lines).  A 50-foot wave going up or down a river will damage a lot of pumps and other plumbing devices not designed to handle that kind of pressure.

Several other comments have confirmed my feeling that this concern is similar to worrying about getting hit by an asteroid; something so unlikely and with such consequences that this particular consequence isn't too important to consider, and for which people have prepared despite this fact.

[thejaytiesto]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

Yup, the best we could do in that scenario is to stack up on food, water, and weapons. Forget about nicely tradding tokens with humans in such an scenario.

And even if that happened, we could still have a lot unaffected copies. It's impossible that every single copy of the blockchain ever gets destroyed. Some would make it through.

[QuestionAuthority]

I'm not sure if it's still happening but Jeff Garzik was releasing a blockchain torrent periodically. That compressed torrent could be copied off on to hardened drive and stored at regular intervals.

I think he might have stopped that after 0.10.0, headers-first sort of negated the majority of the benefit. There used to be a stickied thread about the torrent on the board, but it's gone now (unsticky'ed). Possibly it's still going for a less important reason, not totally sure.

Another Garzik project might provide the complementary infrastructure required; the Bitcoin LEO block relay satellites project (I think it was called BitSats at one point). The base-stations for the satellites would need good connections to the hard-wired Bitcoin network. Because of the capability of the BitSats to route around the hard-wired network, and because they would eventually be distributed fairly evenly across the globe, they would make ideal facilities for blockchain archives using a variety of resilient storage mediums. Even just a massive brown-out could be mitigated with a structure like that in place.

There would be no motivation for any superpower to air burst EMPs over their own country and the blockchain is worldwide so that is off the table as a possible scenario.

Electromagnetic solar radiation never effects the entire planet at once. Think of it this way, is it daylight everywhere on the earth at the same time? A solar flair event would need to transmit the proper wavelength continuously for at least 12 hours to permanently destroy all electronic devices. Hardened devices such as stored in faraday cages, specially shielded or buried underground in bunkers would still survive. You're talking about an event that is so improbable the likelihood of it happening is comparable to a worldwide pandemic killing everyone on the planet with no survivors.

Yep. EMP is potentially very damaging, but cannot level total devastation. I think nuclear winter/fallout is the only real scenario under which all electronics could possibly be rendered inoperable, and those circumstances are right up there in the "you'll have more to worry about than x" stakes.

Interesting, I've never heard of BitSats before.

[Carlton Banks]

I'm not sure if it's still happening but Jeff Garzik was releasing a blockchain torrent periodically. That compressed torrent could be copied off on to hardened drive and stored at regular intervals.

I think he might have stopped that after 0.10.0, headers-first sort of negated the majority of the benefit. There used to be a stickied thread about the torrent on the board, but it's gone now (unsticky'ed). Possibly it's still going for a less important reason, not totally sure.

Another Garzik project might provide the complementary infrastructure required; the Bitcoin LEO block relay satellites project (I think it was called BitSats at one point). The base-stations for the satellites would need good connections to the hard-wired Bitcoin network. Because of the capability of the BitSats to route around the hard-wired network, and because they would eventually be distributed fairly evenly across the globe, they would make ideal facilities for blockchain archives using a variety of resilient storage mediums. Even just a massive brown-out could be mitigated with a structure like that in place.

There would be no motivation for any superpower to air burst EMPs over their own country and the blockchain is worldwide so that is off the table as a possible scenario.

Electromagnetic solar radiation never effects the entire planet at once. Think of it this way, is it daylight everywhere on the earth at the same time? A solar flair event would need to transmit the proper wavelength continuously for at least 12 hours to permanently destroy all electronic devices. Hardened devices such as stored in faraday cages, specially shielded or buried underground in bunkers would still survive. You're talking about an event that is so improbable the likelihood of it happening is comparable to a worldwide pandemic killing everyone on the planet with no survivors.

Yep. EMP is potentially very damaging, but cannot level total devastation. I think nuclear winter/fallout is the only real scenario under which all electronics could possibly be rendered inoperable, and those circumstances are right up there in the "you'll have more to worry about than x" stakes.

Interesting, I've never heard of BitSats before.

Possibly because that's the wrong name! But I think that's right.... 

[megatron1337]

So if a catastrophic event like that would happen, you would be worried about a God damn blockchain?

[calkob]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

exactly, if that was to happen i reckeon that within about 3 months it would be like mad max out there...... back to gold and silver in that case. 

[Mickeyb]

If an event happens so catastrophic as to wipe out all global copies of the blockchain, I assure you a BTC balance will be the LEAST of your worries. Play some Fallout for reference.

exactly, if that was to happen i reckeon that within about 3 months it would be like mad max out there...... back to gold and silver in that case. 

I don't think that gold and silver would matter either. Food and clean water would matter surely though!

[countryfree]

Anyone who has experienced a hard disk failure knows that computers aren't very safe. But the good part of the blockchain is that thousands and thousands of computers all around the world are keeping a copy. My guess is that if all those computers would have all their data erased, BTC would only a minor issue regarding all the other problems the world would face.

[Drewski]

Well, the most vulnerable part of our system to your hypthetical solar flare is the power grid.  With all those nice long wires acting as antennae for the EMP, it'll generate a massive surge that'll make lightning strikes look like a sparkler.  How long do you think it will be for them to fix or replace all the transformers that bring the electricity to your house?  Even if you had a generator and could run your computer, your ISP would most probably be down.  Or wherever you're trying to spend you bitcoins would be down.  This would be one of the last things on my list of worries in that scenario.

[Yakamoto]

Sorry for the alarming headline.

Google reports a single result for "hardcopy of the blockchain".  So I figured we might find such a phrase useful. I have looked a little into the possibility that all copies of the blockchain could be destroyed by an EMP (very unlikely, it seems), or by a solar flare (more likely, but still seems remote).

Would there be a few heroes who could produce tens of GBs of data with the special properties of the blockchain that make it uniquely identifiable in the event such a catastrophe occurred?  Do I want to be one of them?  Sure, why not.  I need like 10 DVDs and a day or three to burn them.

Honestly, though, I was hoping for some replies that say "Check out [link]" where such an effort is already being undertaken.

If a catastrophic solar flare does erase all soft memory, Bitcoin being damaged will be one of the least of our worries. If I am correct, most banks have      a fair portion of their data on soft memory systems, and that would bring most of society to a halt. Even the things we could buy with Bitcoin would be difficult to process, and even harder to actually receive.

However, having an updated copy of the blockchain every 6 months or so sounds like a good idea, regardless if a solar flare was to wipe out soft memory or not.

[RealBitcoin]

Sorry for the alarming headline.

Google reports a single result for "hardcopy of the blockchain".  So I figured we might find such a phrase useful. I have looked a little into the possibility that all copies of the blockchain could be destroyed by an EMP (very unlikely, it seems), or by a solar flare (more likely, but still seems remote).

Would there be a few heroes who could produce tens of GBs of data with the special properties of the blockchain that make it uniquely identifiable in the event such a catastrophe occurred?  Do I want to be one of them?  Sure, why not.  I need like 10 DVDs and a day or three to burn them.

Honestly, though, I was hoping for some replies that say "Check out [link]" where such an effort is already being undertaken.

I keep some of my backup CD's wrapped in tinfoil to protect agains EMP

[Bitcoinpro]

it will only hit one side of the planet