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Author Topic: The Fascists That Surround You  (Read 9594 times)
justusranvier
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November 30, 2012, 04:51:52 AM
Last edit: December 08, 2012, 08:34:28 PM by justusranvier
 #1

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 3: Statists
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 4: Society
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 5: Nature vs Nurture vs Ethics
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 6: Ethics for Psychopaths
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November 30, 2012, 01:59:26 PM
 #2

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
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November 30, 2012, 02:04:05 PM
 #3

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/sociopath?q=sociopath

Quote
Definition of sociopath
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behaviour.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/fascism?q=fascism

Quote
Definition of fascism
noun
[mass noun]
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
(in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices:
this is yet another example of health fascism in action
The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right-wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazis in Germany and Franco in Spain were also Fascist. Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethnic group, a contempt for democracy, an insistence on obedience to a powerful leader, and a strong demagogic approach
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November 30, 2012, 02:35:25 PM
 #4

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

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November 30, 2012, 02:55:30 PM
 #5

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

So, where is the explanation followed by conclusive evidence?
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November 30, 2012, 02:57:56 PM
 #6

So, where is the explanation followed by conclusive evidence?
In the videos you didn't watch, and in the listed sources you didn't read.
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November 30, 2012, 03:14:32 PM
Last edit: November 30, 2012, 03:31:53 PM by augustocroppo
 #7

So, where is the explanation followed by conclusive evidence?
In the videos you didn't watch, and in the listed sources you didn't read.

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime to a psychological disorder.
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November 30, 2012, 03:24:02 PM
 #8

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime with a psychological disorder.
Roll Eyes Who the fuck are you to make demands? Look at the presented material or don't but in any case I'm not going to hand feed it to you just because you're acting like a scary Internet bully. If you don't care about the video content there's no reason for you to post in this thread.
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November 30, 2012, 03:29:24 PM
 #9

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime with a psychological disorder.
Roll Eyes Who the fuck are you to make demands?
Hey! Don't challenge the great AugustoCroppo, lest you be scheduled for re-education. Cheesy

Or worse, he might make a thread about you in the Meta section!

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November 30, 2012, 03:41:08 PM
 #10

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime with a psychological disorder.
Roll Eyes Who the fuck are you to make demands? Look at the presented material or don't but in any case I'm not going to hand feed it to you just because you're acting like a scary Internet bully. If you don't care about the video content there's no reason for you to post in this thread.

I think he doubts wether you understand the videos yourself.
So he asks YOU to explain it in your own words.

And i kindof agree.
Care to explain how a sociopath equals a fascist?

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November 30, 2012, 03:43:40 PM
 #11

Roll Eyes Who the fuck are you to make demands?

Who are you to demand me to watch a video against my will if I do not agree with your implication?

Look at the presented material or don't but in any case I'm not going to hand feed it to you just because you're acting like a scary Internet bully.

Are you already frightened?

If you don't care about the video content there's no reason for you to post in this thread.

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.
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November 30, 2012, 03:53:20 PM
 #12


No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

Or at least, seemingly so.
Maybe he has a very good explanation about all of this.
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November 30, 2012, 04:06:57 PM
 #13


Care to explain how a sociopath equals a fascist?
That's kinda like asking how a pedophile loves children. If you have to ask...

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November 30, 2012, 04:10:22 PM
 #14

> Care to explain how a sociopath equals a fascist?

That's kinda like asking how a pedophile loves children. If you have to ask...

Ha!  Veritas.

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November 30, 2012, 04:46:24 PM
 #15

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.
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November 30, 2012, 04:58:19 PM
 #16

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

Almost.

This is better: Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Plants.

EDIT: but I do accept your analogy as well. Roses can be found in many places, not just gardens. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose
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November 30, 2012, 05:06:32 PM
 #17

Hitler was a sociopath, but most of the people who followed him were normal folk (volk?).
Anyone can be a fascist, but it takes a special sort of sociopath to become their leader.
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November 30, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
 #18

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

Almost.

This is better: Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Plants.

EDIT: but I do accept your analogy as well. Roses can be found in many places, not just gardens. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose

How about: Fascism:Sociopath::Apple tree:Orange

And sure, one is a fruit bearing tree and the other is fruit.
So both have some kind of relation to each other.
But it's about different types of fruit altogether.
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November 30, 2012, 05:41:43 PM
 #19

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
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November 30, 2012, 05:49:33 PM
 #20

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

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November 30, 2012, 05:54:52 PM
 #21

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

I was not arguing, I was calling him pathetic. He did not made any argument. I am not interested to guess what is his argument.
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November 30, 2012, 06:03:43 PM
 #22

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

I was not arguing, I was calling him pathetic. He did not made any argument. I am not interested to guess what is his argument.
Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

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November 30, 2012, 06:08:28 PM
 #23

Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.
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November 30, 2012, 06:11:44 PM
 #24

Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

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November 30, 2012, 06:22:04 PM
 #25

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

You did not explained how the relation of a garden with a plant is an appropriate analogy for the relation of a political regime with a psychological disorder.

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November 30, 2012, 06:22:10 PM
 #26

Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

The analogy means nothing. Roses exist outside of gardens. Thus, sociopaths exist outside of fascism.
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November 30, 2012, 06:55:50 PM
 #27

Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

The analogy means nothing. Roses exist outside of gardens. Thus, sociopaths exist outside of fascism.
Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

So the analogy is not only valid, it's damn near perfect. Or have you forgotten already:
Almost.

This is better: Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Plants.

EDIT: but I do accept your analogy as well. Roses can be found in many places, not just gardens. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose

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November 30, 2012, 07:09:42 PM
 #28

Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

No, it is a reason. I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

The analogy means nothing. Roses exist outside of gardens. Thus, sociopaths exist outside of fascism.
Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

So the analogy is not only valid, it's damn near perfect. Or have you forgotten already:
Almost.

This is better: Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Plants.

EDIT: but I do accept your analogy as well. Roses can be found in many places, not just gardens. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose

I only said your analogy works because it does indeed show that sociopaths are everywhere, like in your AnCap society.
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November 30, 2012, 07:11:08 PM
 #29

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/mussolini-fascism.asp

Quote
Benito Mussolini:
What is Fascism, 1932

Benito Mussolini (1883-1945) over the course of his lifetime went from Socialism - he was editor of Avanti, a socialist newspaper - to the leadership of a new political movement called "fascism" [after "fasces", the symbol of bound sticks used a totem of power in ancient Rome].



It thus repudiates the doctrine of Pacifism -- born of a renunciation of the struggle and an act of cowardice in the face of sacrifice. War alone brings up to its highest tension all human energy and puts the stamp of nobility upon the peoples who have courage to meet it.

The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after

Fascism, now and always, believes in holiness and in heroism; that is to say, in actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect. And if the economic conception of history be denied, according to which theory men are no more than puppets, carried to and fro by the waves of chance, while the real directing forces are quite out of their control, it follows that the existence of an unchangeable and unchanging class-war is also denied - the natural progeny of the economic conception of history.

Fascism denies that the majority, by the simple fact that it is a majority, can direct human society; it denies that numbers alone can govern by means of a periodical consultation, and it affirms the immutable, beneficial, and fruitful inequality of mankind, which can never be permanently leveled through the mere operation of a mechanical process such as universal suffrage.

The foundation of Fascism is the conception of the State, its character, its duty, and its aim. Fascism conceives of the State as an absolute, in comparison with which all individuals or groups are relative, only to be conceived of in their relation to the State.

The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone.

Fascism is the doctrine best adapted to represent the tendencies and the aspirations of a people, like the people of Italy, who are rising again after many centuries of abasement and foreign servitude. If every age has its own characteristic doctrine, there are a thousand signs which point to Fascism as the characteristic doctrine of our time. For if a doctrine must be a living thing, this is proved by the fact that Fascism has created a living faith; and that this faith is very powerful in the minds of men is demonstrated by those who have suffered and died for it.



http://www.buzzle.com/articles/treatment-for-sociopath.html

Quote
Sociopathy is an advanced form of Antisocial Personality Disorder, wherein a person's emotional and physical behavior, perception, and regards towards others, can prove to be damaging to the society. A sociopath doesn't feel emotions, and therefore, can never understand interpersonal relationships. There is a lack of feelings like attachment, respect, remorse, guilt, etc., there is lack of judgment between the right and the wrong; and there is lack of understanding that there is something wrong in them. Yes, a sociopath would never admit, in fact, never realize that they have a disorder. On the contrary, he or she would blame you for all the wrongdoings that have occurred in your life. It is your actions that resulted in what they did, so you are the one to be blamed, not them.
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November 30, 2012, 07:22:26 PM
 #30

I only said your analogy works because it does indeed show that sociopaths are everywhere, like in your AnCap society.
Yes, but the Fascistic government has that tasty power structure for them to seize, and use to their (and their fellow sociopaths') benefit.

Oh, and AugustoCrappo, Feel free any time you like to prove something other than you can use Google to search terms.

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November 30, 2012, 07:25:59 PM
 #31

Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

So the analogy is not only valid, it's damn near perfect. Or have you forgotten already

You did not explained what is the RELATION of a political regime with a psychological disorder. You indeed babbled about how people cannot resist to plant roses in they garden and compared this to a false premise (political regime attracts psychological disorder). Moreover, sociopaths are not political conspirators. Sociopaths are individuals which have an advanced form of personal disorder.

Your analogy is beyond stupid.
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November 30, 2012, 07:31:19 PM
 #32

Yes, but the Fascistic government has that tasty power structure for them to seize, and use to their (and their fellow sociopaths') benefit.

Oh, and AugustoCrappo, Feel free any time you like to prove something other than you can use Google to search terms.

Sociopaths are not individuals conspiring to overtake political regimes.

Yes, I can use Google search and provide consistent references to support my arguments.
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November 30, 2012, 07:33:37 PM
 #33

Sociopaths are not individuals conspiring to overtake political regimes.
So, is your argument that sociopaths would not desire power, or that the political regime would not offer them that power?

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November 30, 2012, 07:34:31 PM
 #34

I watched part 2 (sociopaths) today as I drove to work in my T/A.  It was a FANTASTIC video.  As usual, Stef hits it out of the ballpark.
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November 30, 2012, 07:35:28 PM
 #35

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime with a psychological disorder.
Roll Eyes Who the fuck are you to make demands?
Hey! Don't challenge the great AugustoCroppo, lest you be scheduled for re-education. Cheesy

Or worse, he might make a thread about you in the Meta section!

Holy shit, that's right.  I remember him doing that to me, trying to defame me there.  He also wrote stalkerish PMs to me.  He's a creeper.  Ignore crappo.
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November 30, 2012, 07:39:05 PM
 #36

So, is your argument that sociopaths would not desire power, or that the political regime would not offer them that power?

No... That must be yours. My argument is that there is no relation between fascism and sociopathy.

Moreover, why would an organized government offer 'power' to individuals with psychological disorder?
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November 30, 2012, 07:40:09 PM
 #37

Hitler was a sociopath, but most of the people who followed him were normal folk (volk?).
Anyone can be a fascist, but it takes a special sort of sociopath to become their leader.

This is a fairly interesting statement.

The author Robert Altemeyer from the university of Manitoba wrote a book called The Authoritarians (IMHO a MUST READ) about precisely this dynamic:

- Authoritarians are the petty scum that follow and worship authorities blindly
- Social Dominants (what Stef calls "sociopaths") are the authorities that authoritarians worship

To establish fascism, one group needs the other, and vice versa.  It should come as no surprise that Altemeyer has discovered what traits make a person a member of any of those groups, and how terrifyingly high the modern time's incidence of Social Dominance and Authoritarianism is.  The asshats in this forum that collude to try and sabotage voluntaryist conversations (augustocrappo, blatherblatherblather, firstascent, I'd give you the whole list but I'm lazy) are almost assuredly Authoritarians by Altemeyer's definition in his research.

I personally talked to Stef about this book and the research in it when I interviewed him for the Decline to State episode posted here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLODu02R_gA the intro is hilarious.
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November 30, 2012, 07:42:02 PM
 #38

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

Augustocrappo's is the standard childish conversation sabotage tactic.  He needs to learn how to get get the peanut butter out of his ears before he can sit at the big boys' table and interact with them.
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November 30, 2012, 07:42:41 PM
 #39

So, is your argument that sociopaths would not desire power, or that the political regime would not offer them that power?

No... That must be yours. My argument is that there is no relation between fascism and sociopathy.
As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

Moreover, why would an organized government offer 'power' to individuals with psychological disorder?
Because it gives power to anyone who can get elected, or otherwise seize that power, a skill at which sociopaths excel.

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November 30, 2012, 07:43:04 PM
 #40

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

I was not arguing, I was calling him pathetic. He did not made any argument. I am not interested to guess what is his argument.
Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

Because hate.  He hates you and me and everyone else who presents ideas that scare him.  He has issues and he chooses to soothe his emotions by attacking and insulting others rather than by actually choosing to heal.  That's why.
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November 30, 2012, 08:05:11 PM
 #41

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well. This does not prove that there is an exclusive relationship of fascism with sociopathy. It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime. You are failing to explain what is the relationship between fascism and sociopathy.

Because it gives power to anyone who can get elected, or otherwise seize that power, a skill at which sociopaths excel.

You answer is literally the same nonsense implying that sociopaths are individuals conspiring to overtake a political regime.
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November 30, 2012, 08:54:38 PM
 #42

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well. This does not prove that there is an exclusive relationship of fascism with sociopathy.
No one ever did, except in the straw man you made up in your head so you could knock it down with definitions.
 
It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime. You are failing to explain what is the relationship between fascism and sociopathy.
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

Because it gives power to anyone who can get elected, or otherwise seize that power, a skill at which sociopaths excel.

You answer is literally the same nonsense implying that sociopaths are individuals conspiring to overtake a political regime.
So, again, is your argument that the sociopaths won't want the power, or that the government does not provide a means to that power?

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November 30, 2012, 09:21:05 PM
 #43

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well. This does not prove that there is an exclusive relationship of fascism with sociopathy.
No one ever did, except in the straw man you made up in your head so you could knock it down with definitions.
 
It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime. You are failing to explain what is the relationship between fascism and sociopathy.
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

Because it gives power to anyone who can get elected, or otherwise seize that power, a skill at which sociopaths excel.

You answer is literally the same nonsense implying that sociopaths are individuals conspiring to overtake a political regime.
So, again, is your argument that the sociopaths won't want the power, or that the government does not provide a means to that power?

He has no argument -- only hate for you, because you've stated that Daddy Gummint (the authority figures) is a sociopath, and how dare you say that about Daddy?  Ergo, he won't engage with you rationally -- he will only try to defame and discredit you.
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November 30, 2012, 09:22:02 PM
 #44

To establish fascism, one group needs the other, and vice versa.  It should come as no surprise that Altemeyer has discovered what traits make a person a member of any of those groups, and how terrifyingly high the modern time's incidence of Social Dominance and Authoritarianism is.  The asshats in this forum that collude to try and sabotage voluntaryist conversations (augustocrappo, blatherblatherblather, firstascent, I'd give you the whole list but I'm lazy) are almost assuredly Authoritarians by Altemeyer's definition in his research.

Voluntaryist? You mean some website or the dictionary definition? If the former, the website has made no claim to this thread. If the latter, then the idea is vague. Participate in the thread voluntarily? Or perhaps there is some notice that says only those who volunteer can participate?

Regarding collusion, you mean collusion by those who subscribe to the ideas of some website? Like various individuals here? I'm sorry, but if ever I experienced the butt end of asshatted remarks, I would say it would be you making the asshatted remarks.

Please don't imply or directly state that I am an asshat again. At best, your statement is hypocrisy, and at worst, an admission of your own asshattery, regardless of what I am.
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November 30, 2012, 09:25:36 PM
 #45

Please don't imply or directly state that I am an asshat again. At best, your statement is hypocrisy, and at worst, an admission of your own asshattery, regardless of what I am.

I'll say it in big letters so you won't miss it:

You are an asshat.

You openly accuse people like me and other people in this thread of being "a breeding ground for criminal organizations".  You are a liar and a scumbag who badmouths people solely because they don't share your religious sycophancy of authority.

I've said it before. I believe AnCap is a breeding ground for criminal organizations. It's the ultimate petri dish for unethical behavior, power plays, crime, gangs, etc.

Fuck you.  Suck a bag of dicks, shithead.

Killfile'd.
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November 30, 2012, 09:27:37 PM
 #46

Please don't imply or directly state that I am an asshat again. At best, your statement is hypocrisy, and at worst, an admission of your own asshattery, regardless of what I am.

You are an asshat.  You openly accuse people like me and other people in this thread of being "a breeding ground for criminal organizations".

I've said it before. I believe AnCap is a breeding ground for criminal organizations. It's the ultimate petri dish for unethical behavior, power plays, crime, gangs, etc.

Fuck you.  Suck a bag of dicks, shithead.

Killfile'd.

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.
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November 30, 2012, 09:34:18 PM
 #47

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

I was not arguing, I was calling him pathetic. He did not made any argument. I am not interested to guess what is his argument.
Then why are you in this thread, if you're not interested in the subject?

Because hate.  He hates you and me and everyone else who presents ideas that scare him.  He has issues and he chooses to soothe his emotions by attacking and insulting others rather than by actually choosing to heal.  That's why.

Not because of hate but because of correctness.
I, for one, see a lot of politically ideological people here on the forums misusing well defined words.

It's funny how easily people here hide behind a victim role when presented with truths about their argument.
In fact, justusranvier has only been whining in this thread about how he's buthurt that augustocroppo critisized him.
Instead he could have devoted one post and explained how fascism is connected to sociopaths and put the argument down but somehow that was not an option.
Instead he showed a pavlov butthurt reaction i usually associate with people talking out of their ass.

And now you start the 'hate' thing.
Ow ow, look, they are hatings you. Oh noes.
I never thought this word was used outside the scope of 16-year olds

Instead of that childish play i would like to ask you what the relation is between sociopaths and fascism.

BTW. The way the second video defines sociopathy is the actual problem here. The radio host assumes that a sociopath only feels 'the most primitive emotional sensations, you know, lust... fear and rage."
He completely misses the point that sociopaths don
I mean, this is complete bullshit and could not ever serve as a basis for a sound argument that connects sociopaths to fascism.
Honestly, this guy is trying to scare you to get better ratings. That's the only story here.
But hey, if there was a connection between sociopathy and fascism then you could tell me, right?

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November 30, 2012, 09:38:01 PM
 #48

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

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November 30, 2012, 09:45:29 PM
 #49

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

I seem to recall in the other popular thread poor behavior on his part. If you wish to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, you are on the wrong board. You ensconce yourself in a gang of people here just like you. I am the minority here. You are the one engaged in group think. And if I'm an asshat, you're twice an asshat, but ensconced as you are amongst your buddies here, you can scream it louder than me.
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November 30, 2012, 09:50:49 PM
 #50

Sometimes the fascists that surround you actually do surround you.




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November 30, 2012, 09:53:07 PM
 #51

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

I seem to recall in the other popular thread poor behavior on his part. If you wish to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, you are on the wrong board. You ensconce yourself in a gang of people here just like you. I am the minority here. You are the one engaged in group think. And if I'm an asshat, you're twice an asshat, but ensconced as you are amongst your buddies here, you can scream it louder than me.

This is the politics section of an alternative currency board. Bitcoin is bigger than libertarianism. There are some shared goals, and at least Neal Stephenson thinks Bitcoin-like currency spells the end of the State (Diamond Age), but anarchists are hardly the only ones interested in Bitcoin. Thus the fairly lively discussions when they're not ruined by asshats like yourself, who seek only to tear down others' ideas, rather than presenting your own.

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November 30, 2012, 10:00:31 PM
 #52

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

I seem to recall in the other popular thread poor behavior on his part. If you wish to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, you are on the wrong board. You ensconce yourself in a gang of people here just like you. I am the minority here. You are the one engaged in group think. And if I'm an asshat, you're twice an asshat, but ensconced as you are amongst your buddies here, you can scream it louder than me.

This is the politics section of an alternative currency board. Bitcoin is bigger than libertarianism. There are some shared goals, and at least Neal Stephenson thinks Bitcoin-like currency spells the end of the State (Diamond Age), but anarchists are hardly the only ones interested in Bitcoin. Thus the fairly lively discussions when they're not ruined by asshats like yourself, who seek only to tear down others' ideas, rather than presenting your own.

I have an obligation to present ideas here? I can't just point out existing research, science and share such things? Gee, I didn't know. So I'm an asshat, because when I do such things, and the thugs here demand that I then write whole treatises on the subject, and when I don't comply, all that I've written is then deemed untrue and unsubstantiated, and then when that gets me riled, in the end, I'm just an asshat?

By the way, you're one of them, in a most guilty way. You demanded that I continue to educate you on ecology. You demanded like a petty childish brat.
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November 30, 2012, 10:03:04 PM
 #53

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

I seem to recall in the other popular thread poor behavior on his part. If you wish to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, you are on the wrong board. You ensconce yourself in a gang of people here just like you. I am the minority here. You are the one engaged in group think. And if I'm an asshat, you're twice an asshat, but ensconced as you are amongst your buddies here, you can scream it louder than me.

This is the politics section of an alternative currency board. Bitcoin is bigger than libertarianism. There are some shared goals, and at least Neal Stephenson thinks Bitcoin-like currency spells the end of the State (Diamond Age), but anarchists are hardly the only ones interested in Bitcoin. Thus the fairly lively discussions when they're not ruined by asshats like yourself, who seek only to tear down others' ideas, rather than presenting your own.

Very well said.

And yes, indeed, he is an asshat.  Grade A asshat.
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November 30, 2012, 10:05:37 PM
 #54

Note your last post before this one. How hypocritical.

When rational discourse fails - and he tried - what is left?

You are an asshat. But I dislike echochambers, so rather than confine myself to libertarian and anarchist boards, I come here where I may be exposed to alternative viewpoints. If I ignored all the asshats on here, I might as well just head back to The Shire Society boards.

I seem to recall in the other popular thread poor behavior on his part. If you wish to be exposed to alternative viewpoints, you are on the wrong board. You ensconce yourself in a gang of people here just like you. I am the minority here. You are the one engaged in group think. And if I'm an asshat, you're twice an asshat, but ensconced as you are amongst your buddies here, you can scream it louder than me.

This is the politics section of an alternative currency board. Bitcoin is bigger than libertarianism. There are some shared goals, and at least Neal Stephenson thinks Bitcoin-like currency spells the end of the State (Diamond Age), but anarchists are hardly the only ones interested in Bitcoin. Thus the fairly lively discussions when they're not ruined by asshats like yourself, who seek only to tear down others' ideas, rather than presenting your own.

Very well said.

And yes, indeed, he is an asshat.  Grade A asshat.

As if a gang of group-thinkers patting each other on the shoulder means anything at all.
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November 30, 2012, 10:54:53 PM
 #55

I have an obligation to present ideas here? I can't just point out existing research, science and share such things? Gee, I didn't know. So I'm an asshat, because when I do such things, and the thugs here demand that I then write whole treatises on the subject, and when I don't comply, all that I've written is then deemed untrue and unsubstantiated, and then when that gets me riled, in the end, I'm just an asshat?

You've instructed us to buy books. I don't know if that counts as academic argument where you come from, but in my book, that's just advertisements.

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November 30, 2012, 11:17:33 PM
 #56

I have an obligation to present ideas here? I can't just point out existing research, science and share such things? Gee, I didn't know. So I'm an asshat, because when I do such things, and the thugs here demand that I then write whole treatises on the subject, and when I don't comply, all that I've written is then deemed untrue and unsubstantiated, and then when that gets me riled, in the end, I'm just an asshat?

You've instructed us to buy books. I don't know if that counts as academic argument where you come from, but in my book, that's just advertisements.

You recommended books. I did the same. Just because you couldn't find a method to freely consume them or were not motivated enough to learn science by going to the library does not mean they were advertisements. What a piece of shit attitude you have. What kind of person argues that suggested reading regarding science constitutes advertisements? How far off base are you with regard to more normal thought patterns anyway?
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November 30, 2012, 11:29:46 PM
 #57

I have an obligation to present ideas here? I can't just point out existing research, science and share such things? Gee, I didn't know. So I'm an asshat, because when I do such things, and the thugs here demand that I then write whole treatises on the subject, and when I don't comply, all that I've written is then deemed untrue and unsubstantiated, and then when that gets me riled, in the end, I'm just an asshat?

You've instructed us to buy books. I don't know if that counts as academic argument where you come from, but in my book, that's just advertisements.

You recommended books. I did the same.
Yes, I recommended books. I also pointed out articles, and linked to Wikipedia pages that explained the concepts I was putting across. I also put out the effort to explain it myself. You? Amazon links.

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November 30, 2012, 11:38:04 PM
 #58

I have an obligation to present ideas here? I can't just point out existing research, science and share such things? Gee, I didn't know. So I'm an asshat, because when I do such things, and the thugs here demand that I then write whole treatises on the subject, and when I don't comply, all that I've written is then deemed untrue and unsubstantiated, and then when that gets me riled, in the end, I'm just an asshat?

You've instructed us to buy books. I don't know if that counts as academic argument where you come from, but in my book, that's just advertisements.

You recommended books. I did the same.
Yes, I recommended books. I also pointed out articles, and linked to Wikipedia pages that explained the concepts I was putting across. I also put out the effort to explain it myself. You? Amazon links.

That's because they constitute a lot of content written by leaders in their fields. They're called books. You buy them, borrow them, or find them at university libraries or public libraries. And then you read them. One of the books has so much material in that it would take hundreds and hundreds of wikipedia pages. You can choose willful ignorance, or you can proactively prevent it. You chose the former, citing my recommendations as advertisements. I cannot help you as long as you choose to wear blinders.

You claim I pointed you to Amazon links. Next time, I'll point you to university database catalog entries, so you won't use such a childish and pathetic excuse to defend your own decision to remain ignorant.
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December 01, 2012, 12:02:02 AM
 #59

You claim I pointed you to Amazon links. Next time, I'll point you to university database catalog entries, so you won't use such a childish and pathetic excuse to defend your own decision to remain ignorant.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it." - Albert Einstein

You were off to a good start there, for a second, but then I guess you got bored, or realized you had no idea what you were talking about, or something.

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December 01, 2012, 12:02:46 AM
 #60

I watched part 2 (sociopaths) today as I drove to work in my T/A.  It was a FANTASTIC video.  As usual, Stef hits it out of the ballpark.
Do you remember the part where he talks about how sociopaths respond to being unmasked?
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December 01, 2012, 12:19:34 AM
Last edit: December 01, 2012, 12:33:37 AM by FirstAscent
 #61

You claim I pointed you to Amazon links. Next time, I'll point you to university database catalog entries, so you won't use such a childish and pathetic excuse to defend your own decision to remain ignorant.

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it." - Albert Einstein

And... what?

Just because Einstein was quoted as saying something, possibly out of context, does not make it so. Rather, some things require background knowledge, and a slow building up, case by case. As it turns out, anyone familiar with Einstein, and who has common sense, knows that Einstein and his contemporaries wrestled their whole lives with subjects that could not be explained simply.

If you want respect, then don't ever expect a single quote to defend your position. Only the worst kind of forum participants think they've won an argument by doing so.

Quote
You were off to a good start there, for a second, but then I guess you got bored, or realized you had no idea what you were talking about, or something.

Ah, I see. Doing just what I recently accused you and your lot of. Expecting your opponents to write whole treatises on the subject. I told you once and for all, don't demand that I educate you. I pointed out some excellent sources. And yes, I did get bored of being responsible for your education. Furthermore, if you're implying that perhaps I had no idea what I was talking about, as you seem to be doing, then it's clear you weren't interested in listening to me anyway. Thus the book recommendations.

Furthermore, I have never seen you able to refute anything I said with regard to the linked post and similar posts on the same topic. You should quit while you're ahead, because you keep failing to demonstrate anything here except the following:

- You refuse to educate yourself
- You think a book recommendation is an advertisement
- You like to demand that others educate you
- You claim that when others do educate you, they must not know what they're talking about
- You think a single quote is an effective refutation

Additionally, your whole belief system is based on what you know, which isn't a tenth of what you should know. You're unable to refute what I said in those educational posts. You're unable to parse it into your own belief system. Instead, you deflect, with claims that further education is only in the form of advertisements, by demanding that you require further posts of explanation until weighing in your opinion, etc.

What that precisely tells me is the information is inconvenient for you, and you don't want to hear more. Precisely. You're truly an Internet forum gas bag hiding in a community that favors you. If you had any balls, and any further knowledge outside of your fringe set of sources, you would actually be arguing your points to your opponents, which exist in droves outside this forum.
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December 01, 2012, 12:22:12 AM
 #62

- You claim that when others do educate you, they must not know what they're talking about

I stopped reading here, since yes, you have to know what you're talking about, or else you're just bullshitting.

Shovel some more, I won't be listening.

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December 01, 2012, 12:24:49 AM
Last edit: December 01, 2012, 12:37:03 AM by FirstAscent
 #63

- You claim that when others do educate you, they must not know what they're talking about

I stopped reading here, since yes, you have to know what you're talking about, or else you're just bullshitting.

Shovel some more, I won't be listening.

Close your eyes. Close your ears. You can't take accurate descriptions of your behavior. And your post here demonstrates another failing of your rebuttals. You get caught up in believing that calling out people on minor syntactical twists of words are some how worthy as refutation. Again, that only speaks negatively against you.
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December 01, 2012, 12:32:21 AM
 #64

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/07/the-startling-accuracy-of-referring-to-politicians-as-psychopaths/260517/  politicians are psycopaths.

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December 01, 2012, 01:50:39 AM
 #65

- You claim that when others do educate you, they must not know what they're talking about

I stopped reading here, since yes, you have to know what you're talking about, or else you're just bullshitting.

Shovel some more, I won't be listening.

Close your eyes. Close your ears. You can't take accurate descriptions of your behavior. And your post here demonstrates another failing of your rebuttals. You get caught up in believing that calling out people on minor syntactical twists of words are some how worthy as refutation. Again, that only speaks negatively against you.
My apologies, I misread what you typed there.

No, When someone who was expounding on a point suddenly stops, then I assume they must not know what they're talking about. I assume they're smart enough to determine that they've stuck their foot in their mouth, and have decided to stop chewing. Any time you want to start chewing again, though, feel free. You know where to do it.

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December 01, 2012, 09:57:12 AM
 #66

Anyone who's made it through the second video should find this thread throughly amusing so far.

I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.
Arguing from an admitted position of ignorance is not a good idea.

Augustocrappo's is the standard childish conversation sabotage tactic.  He needs to learn how to get get the peanut butter out of his ears before he can sit at the big boys' table and interact with them.

I am surprised how regularly this sabotage tactic is used here. Many people use it, consciously or not. It is a very simple task to join a discussion on any subject and endlessly deconstruct it until the discussion is derailed. It doesn't take much intelligence, just a really hard head, and true belief in the infallible correctness of your own ideology. So they want to discuss the relation between sociopaths and fascism. No one ever demanded that you believe it, or declared themselves an expert on the topic. No one OWES you an explanation that satisfies your demands. Now stop acting like a child knocking down the discussion other people built, and in which you have clearly expressed your lack of interest in. It is pretty sad that you need to seek out people you disagree with in order to feed your ego by endlessly deconstructing conversations. We get it, you can analyze things, poorly... now get a life and let the adults talk.

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December 01, 2012, 01:16:35 PM
 #67

No one ever did, except in the straw man you made up in your head so you could knock it down with definitions.

No one ever did what?
 
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

So, again, is your argument that the sociopaths won't want the power, or that the government does not provide a means to that power?

That is not a relationship.

Yes, that is my argument, how many times I have to repeat to you understand? Sociopaths are individuals with a PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER, not individuals conspiring to overthrow a POLITICAL REGIMES. Moreover, there is no government departments offering jobs EXCLUSIVELY for sociopaths. If there is, feel free to provide the evidence.
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December 01, 2012, 04:17:17 PM
 #68

No one ever did, except in the straw man you made up in your head so you could knock it down with definitions.
No one ever did what?
My apologies, it should have read  "No one ever claimed that, except..."

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.
That is not a relationship.
Yes, actually, it is. The relationship of sociopaths to fascism is the same as the relationship of roses to a garden.

So, again, is your argument that the sociopaths won't want the power, or that the government does not provide a means to that power?
Yes, that is my argument...
Are you dense? You have not answered my question. Which is your argument?

That sociopaths do not want power?

That government does not provide a position of power?

I never claimed that government departments offer jobs exclusively to sociopaths (though an argument could be made for military positions, they cater more to psychopaths, than sociopaths), I simply claimed that sociopaths are uniquely suited to achieving government office, and that they would seek government office, because of the power such a position offers.

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December 01, 2012, 04:34:46 PM
Last edit: December 01, 2012, 04:45:18 PM by FirstAscent
 #69

So, again, is your argument that the sociopaths won't want the power, or that the government does not provide a means to that power?
Yes, that is my argument...
Are you dense? You have not answered my question. Which is your argument?

That sociopaths do not want power?

That government does not provide a position of power?

He did answer your question. Just because he preceded the answer with a 'Yes, that is my argument' does not mean he did not provide a sufficient answer to your question in the sentence after it.

Quote
I never claimed that government departments offer jobs exclusively to sociopaths (though an argument could be made for military positions, they cater more to psychopaths, than sociopaths), I simply claimed that sociopaths are uniquely suited to achieving government office, and that they would seek government office, because of the power such a position offers.

And millions of sociopaths also live their lives in relative anonymity too, creating personal hell for their spouses, children and acquaintances. And conversely, non-sociopaths seek political office as well.

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
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December 01, 2012, 04:49:53 PM
 #70

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.
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December 01, 2012, 04:54:58 PM
 #71

My apologies, it should have read  "No one ever claimed that, except..."

Except what?

Yes, actually, it is. The relationship of sociopaths to fascism is the same as the relationship of roses to a garden.

That is not a relationship, it is an analogy. Your analogy does not explain how both definitions relates to each other.

Are you dense? You have not answered my question. Which is your argument?

Yes, I have answered your questions.

That sociopaths do not want power?

Sociopaths are individuals with a PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER, not individuals conspiring to overthrow POLITICAL REGIMES.

That government does not provide a position of power?

Not exclusively for SOCIOPATHS.

I never claimed that government departments offer jobs exclusively to sociopaths (though an argument could be made for military positions, they cater more to psychopaths, than sociopaths)

Western military institutions does not accept individual with PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER. Western military institutions selects the most physically and mentally health individuals.

I simply claimed that sociopaths are uniquely suited to achieving government office, and that they would seek government office, because of the power such a position offers.

A claim of false premises. SOCIOPATHS are not suited to achieve government offices, they are individuals with PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER.
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December 01, 2012, 04:58:00 PM
 #72

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
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December 01, 2012, 04:59:19 PM
 #73

In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Provide evidence that any diagnosed SOCIOPATH has 'access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation'.

Otherwise, your statement is false.
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December 01, 2012, 05:10:20 PM
 #74

In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Provide evidence that any diagnosed SOCIOPATH has 'access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation'.

Otherwise, your statement is false.

I suspect Saddam Hussein was a little reticent when it came to sitting the sociopath test, though by his behavior it would be hard not to diagnose him as a little anti-social. Maybe he was just being histrionic.
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December 01, 2012, 05:13:03 PM
 #75

My apologies, it should have read  "No one ever claimed that, except..."
Except what?
Except in the strawman you made up in your mind. Do try and keep up.

Yes, actually, it is. The relationship of sociopaths to fascism is the same as the relationship of roses to a garden.
That is not a relationship, it is an analogy. Your analogy does not explain how both definitions relates to each other.
Yes it does. I've explained the analogy and how it explains the relationship in great detail earlier in the thread. Go back and read it.

That sociopaths do not want power?
Sociopaths are individuals with a PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER, not individuals conspiring to overthrow POLITICAL REGIMES.
So, then you argue that sociopaths would not seek political power?

That government does not provide a position of power?
Not exclusively for SOCIOPATHS.
Never claimed it did.

I never claimed that government departments offer jobs exclusively to sociopaths (though an argument could be made for military positions, they cater more to psychopaths, than sociopaths)

Western military institutions does not accept individual with PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER. Western military institutions selects the most physically and mentally health individuals.
Uh huh. And then trains them to be soulless killers.  Roll Eyes

I simply claimed that sociopaths are uniquely suited to achieving government office, and that they would seek government office, because of the power such a position offers.

A claim of false premises. SOCIOPATHS are not suited to achieve government offices, they are individuals with PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER.
No? They're not uniquely suited?
They can't lie convincingly?
They can't present an outward appearance of benevolence, regardless of what is behind the mask?
They can't convince people to like them?

These are the defining characteristics of sociopaths, and also, you'll note, politicians.

In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Provide evidence that any diagnosed SOCIOPATH has 'access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation'.

Otherwise, your statement is false.
Adolph Hitler. Benito Mussolini. Kim Jong-il. Joseph Stalin. Do I really need to continue?

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December 01, 2012, 05:29:45 PM
 #76

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
Everything in AnCap, however, precludes the use of those resources for conquest.

A business built on producing high-quality automobiles will have a hard time turning into a military force.

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December 01, 2012, 05:35:27 PM
 #77

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
Everything in AnCap, however, precludes the use of those resources for conquest.

A business built on producing high-quality automobiles will have a hard time turning into a military force.

What nonsense. Is AnCap only composed of automobile production companies? Does not AnCap also have people, weapons manufacturers, money, external suppliers, recessions, disenchanted individuals, criminals, defense companies, hatred, sociopaths, influential people, wealthy people, etc., etc., etc?

And besides, who do you think built tanks and airplanes in the U.S. during WWII?
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December 01, 2012, 05:47:37 PM
 #78

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
Everything in AnCap, however, precludes the use of those resources for conquest.

A business built on producing high-quality automobiles will have a hard time turning into a military force.

What nonsense. Is AnCap only composed of automobile production companies? Does not AnCap also have people, weapons manufacturers, money, external suppliers, recessions, disenchanted individuals, criminals, defense companies, hatred, sociopaths, influential people, wealthy people, etc., etc., etc?

And besides, who do you think built tanks and airplanes in the U.S. during WWII?
Yes, an automobile manufacturer could switch to making tanks. or bombs. But who will drive those tanks? Who will drop those bombs?

What I am saying that workers in industry do not, and cannot, become soldiers overnight simply because their employer wishes it. Defense agencies are geared and staffed for defense, not offense. He would have to build, with his own money - or an external bankroll - a private army comprised solely of thugs and criminals. He would then have to take that private army, and set it against not only the defense agencies - businesses built around stopping exactly this sort of thing - but also every armed citizen in the region, who will be fighting to defend their homes.

Who do you think is going to win that fight?

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December 01, 2012, 05:54:02 PM
 #79

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
Everything in AnCap, however, precludes the use of those resources for conquest.

A business built on producing high-quality automobiles will have a hard time turning into a military force.

What nonsense. Is AnCap only composed of automobile production companies? Does not AnCap also have people, weapons manufacturers, money, external suppliers, recessions, disenchanted individuals, criminals, defense companies, hatred, sociopaths, influential people, wealthy people, etc., etc., etc?

And besides, who do you think built tanks and airplanes in the U.S. during WWII?
Yes, an automobile manufacturer could switch to making tanks. or bombs. But who will drive those tanks? Who will drop those bombs?

What I am saying that workers in industry do not, and cannot, become soldiers overnight simply because their employer wishes it. Defense agencies are geared and staffed for defense, not offense. He would have to build, with his own money - or an external bankroll - a private army comprised solely of thugs and criminals. He would then have to take that private army, and set it against not only the defense agencies - businesses built around stopping exactly this sort of thing - but also every armed citizen in the region, who will be fighting to defend their homes.

Who do you think is going to win that fight?

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.
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December 01, 2012, 06:05:16 PM
 #80

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

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December 01, 2012, 06:14:26 PM
 #81

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

I don't have it planned out. I'm not really interested in power. I don't think you have it planned out either.

Consider these terms though: economics, wealth, inequality, disenchantment, minimal laws, complacency, cults, charisma, takeovers, buyouts, rallies, speeches, terrorism, sabotage, propaganda, influence, mob, poverty, etc.

Those all exist in your society. I see no difference from any other society where a tyrant, dictator or criminal rises to power. There's nothing special about AnCap.

EDIT: added mob and poverty to the list.
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December 01, 2012, 07:51:44 PM
 #82

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

I don't have it planned out. I'm not really interested in power. I don't think you have it planned out either.

Consider these terms though: economics, wealth, inequality, disenchantment, minimal laws, complacency, cults, charisma, takeovers, buyouts, rallies, speeches, terrorism, sabotage, propaganda, influence, mob, poverty, etc.

Do you ever do anything but list concepts? Do you ever combine those concepts? Ever put them in an order that makes sense? Or is life just one big word cloud for you?

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December 01, 2012, 07:57:55 PM
 #83

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

I don't have it planned out. I'm not really interested in power. I don't think you have it planned out either.

Consider these terms though: economics, wealth, inequality, disenchantment, minimal laws, complacency, cults, charisma, takeovers, buyouts, rallies, speeches, terrorism, sabotage, propaganda, influence, mob, poverty, etc.

Do you ever do anything but list concepts? Do you ever combine those concepts? Ever put them in an order that makes sense? Or is life just one big word cloud for you?

Yes I do. And you know I do. I'm not going to waste my time linking to the countless examples. Regardless, does your asking of such questions negate the possibilities that exist within your dream society that I have implied? Absolutely not.
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December 01, 2012, 08:03:37 PM
 #84

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

I don't have it planned out. I'm not really interested in power. I don't think you have it planned out either.

Consider these terms though: economics, wealth, inequality, disenchantment, minimal laws, complacency, cults, charisma, takeovers, buyouts, rallies, speeches, terrorism, sabotage, propaganda, influence, mob, poverty, etc.

Do you ever do anything but list concepts? Do you ever combine those concepts? Ever put them in an order that makes sense? Or is life just one big word cloud for you?

Yes I do. And you know I do. I'm not going to waste my time linking to the countless examples. Regardless, does your asking of such questions negate the possibilities that exist within your dream society that I have implied? Absolutely not.

Yes, and until you put those implications into a statement, I can't refute them, since they're only nebulous implications. Very clever, but typically dishonest of you.

Put up or shut up. I have outlined a system. You say it is flawed, yet you will not explain exactly how. I suspect because you know your explanation will reveal the weakness of your argument.

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December 01, 2012, 10:29:42 PM
 #85

Except in the strawman you made up in your mind. Do try and keep up.

There is no straw man, you are confused.

Yes it does. I've explained the analogy and how it explains the relationship in great detail earlier in the thread. Go back and read it.

Let's review your poor analogy:

Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

This does not contain any coherent explanation of how FASCISM relates to SOCIOPATHY. You indeed produced false premises in 'great detail', but you completely failed to identify the parts compared. Therefore, your analogy DID NOT explained what is the relationship of the two definitions in question. Moreover, you committed serious misconceptions...

You initiated the analogy in this way:

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

This show how delusional you are. You seen to believe that by posting few words without an explanation implies that you have already explained what is your argument. That is exactly what did not happened. You did not explained anything at all. You indeed build your own failure.

In your analogy, you affirms:

'Roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy)'

This imply the 'roses' are the political leaders.

'Roses exist inside a garden, they the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example).'

This imply the 'garden' is the political structure.

'You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths)'

Translating: 'You can have a political structure without political leaders, but the temptation to add a political leader is constant (political regime attract psychological disorder).

'Once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).'

Translating: 'Once you have one group of political leaders, you're well on your way to having political structure with political leaders (psychological disorder tend to take over any political regime power structure they are introduced to).'

In accordance with the above analogy, which is not 'ours', but only yours and solely yours, any group of political leaders are sociopaths and they tend to take over any political regime. Moreover, you affirmed that political structures are influenced by an unidentified subject, which causes the political structure to attract psychological disorder. This beg the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders to the political structure? Where this 'temptation' come from?

Finally, when your analogy is compared with the appropriate definitions of fascism and sociopathy, it completely fails:

'Once you have one...'

Quote
...sociopath doesn't feel emotions, and therefore, can never understand interpersonal relationships...

'...you're well on your way to having a...'

Quote
... Fascist State [which] organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone.

One DOES NOT care for (or look after the welfare of) all individuals, the other DOES care for (or look after the welfare of) all individuals.

So, then you argue that sociopaths would not seek political power?

I argue that they would seek political power as anyone which is not a diagnosed as sociopath. It is not the affliction of a sociopath which causes them to seek political leadership.

I never claimed that government departments offer jobs exclusively to sociopaths (though an argument could be made for military positions, they cater more to psychopaths, than sociopaths)

Western military institutions does not accept individual with PSYCHOLOGICAL DISORDER. Western military institutions selects the most physically and mentally health individuals.

Uh huh. And then trains them to be soulless killers.  Roll Eyes

You are implying that soldiers are trained to lose they 'soul'. What is 'soul' and what relation have with psychological disorders?

No? They're not uniquely suited?
They can't lie convincingly?
They can't present an outward appearance of benevolence, regardless of what is behind the mask?
They can't convince people to like them?

These are the defining characteristics of sociopaths, and also, you'll note, politicians.

Following your deceitful logic, all politicians are individuals with:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Quote
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
Pathological Lying
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Shallow Emotions
Incapacity for Love
Need for Stimulation
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Of course this is false. The above characteristics defines a sociopath, not a politician:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/politician?q=politician

Quote
Definition of politician
noun
a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of an elected office

In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Provide evidence that any diagnosed SOCIOPATH has 'access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation'.

Otherwise, your statement is false.
Adolph Hitler. Benito Mussolini. Kim Jong-il. Joseph Stalin. Do I really need to continue?

This is not evidence. This is your assumption with no evidence. Please, provide a diagnosis produced by a qualified person which indicates that any of the above names cited were afflicted by SOCIOPATHY. Otherwise, your statement is false.
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December 01, 2012, 10:44:00 PM
 #86

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

What you mean, then, is they could never be worse than, say, someone like Hitler, as they gain wealth and power and a following? Nothing in AnCap precludes the accumulation of wealth, weapons, leverage through business, influence and followers. Good try, though.
Everything in AnCap, however, precludes the use of those resources for conquest.

A business built on producing high-quality automobiles will have a hard time turning into a military force.

What nonsense. Is AnCap only composed of automobile production companies? Does not AnCap also have people, weapons manufacturers, money, external suppliers, recessions, disenchanted individuals, criminals, defense companies, hatred, sociopaths, influential people, wealthy people, etc., etc., etc?

And besides, who do you think built tanks and airplanes in the U.S. during WWII?
Yes, an automobile manufacturer could switch to making tanks. or bombs. But who will drive those tanks? Who will drop those bombs?

What I am saying that workers in industry do not, and cannot, become soldiers overnight simply because their employer wishes it. Defense agencies are geared and staffed for defense, not offense. He would have to build, with his own money - or an external bankroll - a private army comprised solely of thugs and criminals. He would then have to take that private army, and set it against not only the defense agencies - businesses built around stopping exactly this sort of thing - but also every armed citizen in the region, who will be fighting to defend their homes.

Who do you think is going to win that fight?

Don't you think that by the time you have the technology to force the world into this ideal society that there will also be technology to make autonomous weapons?

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December 01, 2012, 10:45:45 PM
 #87

This is not evidence. This is your assumption with no evidence. Please, provide a diagnosis produced by a qualified person which indicates that any of the above names cited were afflicted by SOCIOPATHY. Otherwise, your statement is false.

This.
I havent heared an argument and we're already on page 5.
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December 01, 2012, 10:57:51 PM
 #88

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?


This is a false question.
AnCap societies do not exist and cannot exist without using force.
I always ask AnCap people one question:

How will you convince russia and china to cooperate ?

I can see you ringing the russians doorbell:

You: 'Hey Putin, how about sharing your natural resources with the rest of the world?'
Putin: 'Go away'.
The End

The whole AnCap thing is complete nonsense and comes down to one religious believe: "Techology will automatically safe us from all bad things".
It's a fantasy. An ideology that is simply unexecutable.
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December 01, 2012, 11:13:40 PM
 #89

Except in the strawman you made up in your mind. Do try and keep up.

There is no straw man, you are confused.
Yes there is: your claim that what I am saying is that fascism = sociopaths. since that's clearly false, and I never claimed that, That is a straw man, that you set up so you could knock down with definitions. Unless you are just a fucking moron, and can't understand an analogy. So which is it, Straw man, or moron?
 
Yes it does. I've explained the analogy and how it explains the relationship in great detail earlier in the thread. Go back and read it.

Let's review your poor analogy:

Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

This does not contain any coherent explanation of how FASCISM relates to SOCIOPATHY. You indeed produced false premises in 'great detail', but you completely failed to identify the parts compared. Therefore, your analogy DID NOT explained what is the relationship of the two definitions in question. Moreover, you committed serious misconceptions...

You initiated the analogy in this way:

Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

This show how delusional you are. You seen to believe that by posting few words without an explanation implies that you have already explained what is your argument. That is exactly what did not happened. You did not explained anything at all. You indeed build your own failure.
I'm leaning toward you not understanding an analogy...
 
In your analogy, you affirms:

'Roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy)'

This imply the 'roses' are the political leaders.
This, right here, your very first premise, is where you go wrong. The Roses are the Sociopaths, the political leaders are the "centerpiece" of the government. Where roses are in a garden, they are the centerpiece. Where they are not present, other things, such as a fountain, or fruit tree are the centerpiece. Where Sociopaths exist in a government, you can be assured you find them in leadership roles... the "centerpiece."

'Roses exist inside a garden, they the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example).'

This imply the 'garden' is the political structure.
Heh. You actually got one right.

'You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths)'

Translating: 'You can have a political structure without political leaders, but the temptation to add a political leader is constant (political regime attract psychological disorder).
Nope... You can have a political structure without sociopaths, but sociopaths are drawn to political structures.

'Once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).'

Translating: 'Once you have one group of political leaders, you're well on your way to having political structure with political leaders (psychological disorder tend to take over any political regime power structure they are introduced to).'
No, I translated it for you. You even quoted it. Sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to.

One DOES NOT care for (or look after the welfare of) all individuals, the other DOES care for (or look after the welfare of) all individuals.
No, One DOES NOT care for other individuals, the other PRETENDS TO care for other individuals.

So, then you argue that sociopaths would not seek political power?

I argue that they would seek political power as anyone which is not a diagnosed as sociopath. It is not the affliction of a sociopath which causes them to seek political leadership.
No, sociopathy does not, itself, cause them to seek political leadership. However, political leadership is a very comfortable place for a sociopath to exercise his sociopathy.

No? They're not uniquely suited?
They can't lie convincingly?
They can't present an outward appearance of benevolence, regardless of what is behind the mask?
They can't convince people to like them?

These are the defining characteristics of sociopaths, and also, you'll note, politicians.

Following your deceitful logic, all politicians are individuals with:

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html
Well, let's run down the list, shall we?
Quote
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Yup.
Quote
Manipulative and Conning
Yup.
Quote
Pathological Lying
Yup.
Quote
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Yup.
Quote
Shallow Emotions
Yup.
Quote
Incapacity for Love
Hmm. No proof of this one.
Quote
Need for Stimulation
Yup.
Quote
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Yup.
Quote
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Yup.
Quote
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Yup.
Quote
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Yup.
Quote
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Oh hell yes.
Quote
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Don't you know it.
Quote
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Yup.

In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Provide evidence that any diagnosed SOCIOPATH has 'access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation'.

Otherwise, your statement is false.
Adolph Hitler. Benito Mussolini. Kim Jong-il. Joseph Stalin. Do I really need to continue?

This is not evidence. This is your assumption with no evidence. Please, provide a diagnosis produced by a qualified person which indicates that any of the above names cited were afflicted by SOCIOPATHY. Otherwise, your statement is false.
To borrow a page from FirstAscent: http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828/
Here's a quick run-down: www.bookbrowse.com/author_interviews/full/index.cfm/author_number/1097/martha-stout

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December 02, 2012, 02:56:18 AM
 #90

Yes there is: your claim that what I am saying is that fascism = sociopaths. since that's clearly false, and I never claimed that, That is a straw man, that you set up so you could knock down with definitions. Unless you are just a fucking moron, and can't understand an analogy. So which is it, Straw man, or moron?

Neither!

You are indeed intentionally try to stir up the discussion to disguise your confused definitions. There was no straw men. If you believe there was without even to explain how there was, you are indeed delusional.

At no moment I claimed or suggested that you were equaling fascism with sociopathy. I have been arguing that your analogy is beyond stupid and does not explain the hypothetical relationship of a political regime and a psychological disorder. You should read twice every time you answer, look at the dictionary, consult references, etc. This is all easily to be done with Internet available. For example, you could verify that:

Quote
Straw Man occurs when

an opponent takes the original argument of his/her adversary

and then offers a close imitation, or straw man, version of the original argument

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well. This does not prove that there is an exclusive relationship of fascism with sociopathy. It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime. You are failing to explain what is the relationship between fascism and sociopathy.

The original argument, 'you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden'.

My version of your original argument: 'You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well.'

I argued exactly over your argument, without limit the meaning, hence the premise that your argument '...only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime'

That is exactly what you mean:

I only said your analogy works because it does indeed show that sociopaths are everywhere, like in your AnCap society.
Yes, but the Fascistic government has that tasty power structure for them to seize, and use to their (and their fellow sociopaths') benefit.

You agreed with my version of your original argument with a 'yes' to another user!

In your analogy, you affirms:

'Roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy)'

This imply the 'roses' are the political leaders.
This, right here, your very first premise, is where you go wrong. The Roses are the Sociopaths, the political leaders are the "centerpiece" of the government. Where roses are in a garden, they are the centerpiece. Where they are not present, other things, such as a fountain, or fruit tree are the centerpiece. Where Sociopaths exist in a government, you can be assured you find them in leadership roles... the "centerpiece."

Wait... Do you read proof what you write? You wrote that 'Roses ... are the centerpiece', but now you are pretending that 'roses are the sociopaths' and then affirming that 'the political leaders are the centerpiece'. You are now implying that individuals with psychological disorder always become the central political leadership of any political regime.

'Roses exist inside a garden, they the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example).'

This imply the 'garden' is the political structure.
Heh. You actually got one right.

So you agree that I am right, that 'garden' is the political structure:

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

Translating: 'As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find sociopaths in a political structure.'

This prove that my argument was valid and not a limited version of your original argument:

'It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime'

Nope... You can have a political structure without sociopaths, but sociopaths are drawn to political structures.

No, I translated it for you. You even quoted it. Sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to.

Do you have learning issues? How many times I need to repeat that sociopaths are individuals with a psychological disorder, not individuals conspiring to overtake political regimes.

No, One DOES NOT care for other individuals, the other PRETENDS TO care for other individuals.

They care:

Quote
The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after.

Your false premise is contradicting yourself:

'Once you have one...'

...DOES NOT care for other individuals...

'...you're well on your way to having a...'

other PRETENDS TO care for other individuals.

You are affirming that a group of individuals which does not really care will lead to a group of individuals which pretend to care. You are implying that a group of sociopaths leads to a group of fascists. That contradicts your own false premise: 'sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to', which means that first there is the group which pretends to care, and then comes the group which really do not care.

Moreover, you ignored a important part of my observation:

Quote
Moreover, you affirmed that political structures are influenced by an unidentified subject, which causes the political structure to attract psychological disorder. This beg the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders sociopaths to the political structure? Where this 'temptation' come from?

However, political leadership is a very comfortable place for a sociopath to exercise his sociopathy.

You seem to believe that sociopathy is some kind of skill, when in fact sociopathy is a  psychological disorder. Individuals diagnosed with sociopathy does not believe or understand they are afflicted by a psychological disorder. They cannot become aware of that knowledge to decide if politics is the best choice to them exercise sociopathy.


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Who is the devil you know?

Could it be your lying, cheating ex-husband?
Your sadistic high school gym teacher?
Your boss who loves to humiliate people in meetings?

Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.
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December 02, 2012, 03:39:21 AM
 #91

Quote
Straw Man occurs when an opponent takes the original argument of his/her adversary and then offers a close imitation, or straw man, version of the original argument

My version of your original argument:
Straw man.
Which you then attempted to defeat, in typical AugustoCrappo style, with dictionary definitions.

That is exactly what you mean:

I only said your analogy works because it does indeed show that sociopaths are everywhere, like in your AnCap society.
Yes, but the Fascistic government has that tasty power structure for them to seize, and use to their (and their fellow sociopaths') benefit.

You agreed with my version of your original argument with a 'yes' to another user!

In your analogy, you affirms:

'Roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy)'

This imply the 'roses' are the political leaders.
This, right here, your very first premise, is where you go wrong. The Roses are the Sociopaths, the political leaders are the "centerpiece" of the government. Where roses are in a garden, they are the centerpiece. Where they are not present, other things, such as a fountain, or fruit tree are the centerpiece. Where Sociopaths exist in a government, you can be assured you find them in leadership roles... the "centerpiece."

Wait... Do you read proof what you write? You wrote that 'Roses ... are the centerpiece', but now you are pretending that 'roses are the sociopaths' and then affirming that 'the political leaders are the centerpiece'. You are now implying that individuals with psychological disorder always become the central political leadership of any political regime.
Where roses exist in gardens, they are the centerpiece.
Where sociopaths exist in governments, they are in the leadership positions.
I'm now strongly of the opinion that you are deficient in some way, and cannot understand analogies.

'Roses exist inside a garden, they the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example).'

This imply the 'garden' is the political structure.
Heh. You actually got one right.

So you agree that I am right, that 'garden' is the political structure:

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

Translating: 'As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find sociopaths in a political structure.'

This prove that my argument was valid and not a limited version of your original argument:

'It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime'
Of course they can be found in other political regimes! I never argued otherwise. Fascist governments, however, offer a ripe and tasty fruit for the sociopath to pluck.

Nope... You can have a political structure without sociopaths, but sociopaths are drawn to political structures.

No, I translated it for you. You even quoted it. Sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to.

Do you have learning issues? How many times I need to repeat that sociopaths are individuals with a psychological disorder, not individuals conspiring to overtake political regimes.
Repeating it doesn't make it true.

Moreover, you ignored a important part of my observation:

Quote
Moreover, you affirmed that political structures are influenced by an unidentified subject, which causes the political structure to attract psychological disorder. This beg the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders sociopaths to the political structure? Where this 'temptation' come from?
I ignored it because it was based on a false premise. A flawed understanding of my analogy. I continue to ignore it for the same reason, just as I ignore your attempt at diversion.

However, political leadership is a very comfortable place for a sociopath to exercise his sociopathy.

You seem to believe that sociopathy is some kind of skill, when in fact sociopathy is a  psychological disorder. Individuals diagnosed with sociopathy does not believe or understand they are afflicted by a psychological disorder. They cannot become aware of that knowledge to decide if politics is the best choice to them exercise sociopathy.
No, but they know that they enjoy exercising power over others, doing whatever they want, and avoiding consequences. Politics is a great way to achieve these ends, and their ability to lie convincingly, their "glibness and superficial charm," their manipulative nature, afford them a means to achieve political power. A sociopath makes a great political candidate. I notice you skipped the listing of diagnostic criteria... good choice, since I could provide specific examples of politicians displaying nearly every one of them.


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.
Did you read the book? It's available on Kindle, you could start reading it in less than a minute. Perhaps a little longer if you have to search Pirate bay.

It was written by a Dr. of Psychology. The explanation and evidence is rarely to be found in an interview... but it is to be found in the book. Regardless, when a Dr. of Psychology says someone is a sociopath, that is a diagnosis. If your doctor told you you had cancer, would you call it an "assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence?"

Please, just admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth by responding without watching the video, and for fuck's sake, stop chewing!

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December 02, 2012, 06:30:29 AM
 #92

Yes there is: your claim that what I am saying is that fascism = sociopaths. since that's clearly false, and I never claimed that, That is a straw man, that you set up so you could knock down with definitions. Unless you are just a fucking moron, and can't understand an analogy. So which is it, Straw man, or moron?

Neither!

You are indeed intentionally try to stir up the discussion to disguise your confused definitions. There was no straw men. If you believe there was without even to explain how there was, you are indeed delusional.

At no moment I claimed or suggested that you were equaling fascism with sociopathy. I have been arguing that your analogy is beyond stupid and does not explain the hypothetical relationship of a political regime and a psychological disorder. You should read twice every time you answer, look at the dictionary, consult references, etc. This is all easily to be done with Internet available. For example, you could verify that:

Quote
Straw Man occurs when

an opponent takes the original argument of his/her adversary

and then offers a close imitation, or straw man, version of the original argument

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well. This does not prove that there is an exclusive relationship of fascism with sociopathy. It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime. You are failing to explain what is the relationship between fascism and sociopathy.

The original argument, 'you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden'.

My version of your original argument: 'You will find individuals with psychological disorder in other political regimes as well.'

I argued exactly over your argument, without limit the meaning, hence the premise that your argument '...only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime'

That is exactly what you mean:

I only said your analogy works because it does indeed show that sociopaths are everywhere, like in your AnCap society.
Yes, but the Fascistic government has that tasty power structure for them to seize, and use to their (and their fellow sociopaths') benefit.

You agreed with my version of your original argument with a 'yes' to another user!

In your analogy, you affirms:

'Roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy)'

This imply the 'roses' are the political leaders.
This, right here, your very first premise, is where you go wrong. The Roses are the Sociopaths, the political leaders are the "centerpiece" of the government. Where roses are in a garden, they are the centerpiece. Where they are not present, other things, such as a fountain, or fruit tree are the centerpiece. Where Sociopaths exist in a government, you can be assured you find them in leadership roles... the "centerpiece."

Wait... Do you read proof what you write? You wrote that 'Roses ... are the centerpiece', but now you are pretending that 'roses are the sociopaths' and then affirming that 'the political leaders are the centerpiece'. You are now implying that individuals with psychological disorder always become the central political leadership of any political regime.

'Roses exist inside a garden, they the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example).'

This imply the 'garden' is the political structure.
Heh. You actually got one right.

So you agree that I am right, that 'garden' is the political structure:

As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find roses in a garden. That is the relation.

Translating: 'As I said, you will find sociopaths in a fascistic government, just as you will find sociopaths in a political structure.'

This prove that my argument was valid and not a limited version of your original argument:

'It only proves that individuals with psychological disorder can be found participating in any political regime'

Nope... You can have a political structure without sociopaths, but sociopaths are drawn to political structures.

No, I translated it for you. You even quoted it. Sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to.

Do you have learning issues? How many times I need to repeat that sociopaths are individuals with a psychological disorder, not individuals conspiring to overtake political regimes.

No, One DOES NOT care for other individuals, the other PRETENDS TO care for other individuals.

They care:

Quote
The Fascist accepts life and loves it, knowing nothing of and despising suicide: he rather conceives of life as duty and struggle and conquest, but above all for others -- those who are at hand and those who are far distant, contemporaries, and those who will come after.

Your false premise is contradicting yourself:

'Once you have one...'

...DOES NOT care for other individuals...

'...you're well on your way to having a...'

other PRETENDS TO care for other individuals.

You are affirming that a group of individuals which does not really care will lead to a group of individuals which pretend to care. You are implying that a group of sociopaths leads to a group of fascists. That contradicts your own false premise: 'sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to', which means that first there is the group which pretends to care, and then comes the group which really do not care.

Moreover, you ignored a important part of my observation:

Quote
Moreover, you affirmed that political structures are influenced by an unidentified subject, which causes the political structure to attract psychological disorder. This beg the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders sociopaths to the political structure? Where this 'temptation' come from?

However, political leadership is a very comfortable place for a sociopath to exercise his sociopathy.

You seem to believe that sociopathy is some kind of skill, when in fact sociopathy is a  psychological disorder. Individuals diagnosed with sociopathy does not believe or understand they are afflicted by a psychological disorder. They cannot become aware of that knowledge to decide if politics is the best choice to them exercise sociopathy.


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Who is the devil you know?

Could it be your lying, cheating ex-husband?
Your sadistic high school gym teacher?
Your boss who loves to humiliate people in meetings?

Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.


Quote some more, maybe some one will be fooled into thinking you have something to say.

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December 02, 2012, 07:18:25 AM
 #93


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.
Did you read the book? It's available on Kindle, you could start reading it in less than a minute. Perhaps a little longer if you have to search Pirate bay.

Oh the irony. I'll accept this as nullification of everything you've ever said while in the absence of knowledge to be found in the books I recommended and which you pointedly refused to read because they would cost you effort to read. Don't make me point to all the posts where you complained about being asked to read a book that might require you to pay money or hike your ass down to the library.

Find the links and start reading.
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December 02, 2012, 07:28:22 AM
 #94


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.
Did you read the book? It's available on Kindle, you could start reading it in less than a minute. Perhaps a little longer if you have to search Pirate bay.

Oh the irony. I'll accept this as nullification of everything you've ever said while in the absence of knowledge to be found in the books I recommended and which you pointedly refused to read because they would cost you effort to read. Don't make me point to all the posts where you complained about being asked to read a book that might require you to pay money or hike your ass down to the library.

Find the links and start reading.

I don't have a PhD. She does. He requested a diagnosis from a "qualified person." I am not such. She is. You, presumably, understand the subject you wish "educate" me on. That makes you qualified to explain it to me. I don't want scientific studies, I want your personal opinions on the matter. You know where you can stick them.

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December 02, 2012, 08:45:08 AM
 #95

I watched part 2 (sociopaths) today as I drove to work in my T/A.  It was a FANTASTIC video.  As usual, Stef hits it out of the ballpark.
Do you remember the part where he talks about how sociopaths respond to being unmasked?

I remember that part, yes.

That's precisely why this thread is so amusing.  Lotsa sociopaths showing their fangs around here.
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December 02, 2012, 08:46:09 AM
 #96

Sociopaths also will exist in AnCap, and render their personal brand of hell in all their ways within such a society as well. What is your point again?
In a free society the damage sociopaths can cause to society will finally be limited to what they can accomplish via their own efforts instead of amplified by access to armies, nuclear weapons, police forces and taxation.

Well said.
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December 02, 2012, 08:47:24 AM
 #97

I think you need to read history and learn how rulers rise to power. It's amazing how you apply such a lack of imagination to ideas which challenge your dream society. Regarding AnCap, I can't think of a more optimal playground for a power grab.

Since you clearly have this well-planned out, if you were making a power grab in an AnCap society, just how would you go about it?

I don't have it planned out. I'm not really interested in power. I don't think you have it planned out either.

Consider these terms though: economics, wealth, inequality, disenchantment, minimal laws, complacency, cults, charisma, takeovers, buyouts, rallies, speeches, terrorism, sabotage, propaganda, influence, mob, poverty, etc.

Do you ever do anything but list concepts? Do you ever combine those concepts? Ever put them in an order that makes sense? Or is life just one big word cloud for you?

He chickened out of explaining what he claimed would be so easy to do.  Typical FirstAsshat behavior.

His credibility isn't zero -- it's negative.
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December 02, 2012, 08:50:09 AM
 #98

By the way:

This is another thread littered with the emotional droppings of AugustoCreepo and FirstAsshat.

I highly suggest to everyone here to please add these assballs to your ignore list and ignore what they say.  They're empty-headed emotional wreckballs of hate.  The more attention you give them, the more they fulfill their goal: sabotaging discussion of ideas that terrify them.
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December 02, 2012, 06:03:21 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2012, 07:24:14 PM by FirstAscent
 #99

By the way:

This is another thread littered with the emotional droppings of AugustoCreepo and FirstAsshat.

I highly suggest to everyone here to please add these assballs to your ignore list and ignore what they say.  They're empty-headed emotional wreckballs of hate.  The more attention you give them, the more they fulfill their goal: sabotaging discussion of ideas that terrify them.

There's this Looney Toons cartoon. A little tiny dog keeps hovering around a big bull dog. He keeps saying "So what do you want to do today?" "You want to chase a cat?" "You want to chase a car?" The little dog hangs on, sucking up to the bigger dog. All I see you do is pat the other guys on the shoulder, sucking up, throwing out insults to the opposition in the cocoon of safety of your gang. You've now made four posts in a row like that. One or two wouldn't call too much attention to yourself, but you've made four in a row. In each, you never actually demonstrate any substantive thought process, argument, logic, or provision of fact. I don't recall ever actually seeing any substance from you, ever. All I see from you is the behavior of an ass kisser, a suck up, and an intellectual wimp hanging out with others to inflate your own self importance.
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December 02, 2012, 06:08:23 PM
 #100

Did you guys hear something? Sounded like a loud, protracted fart.

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December 02, 2012, 06:12:25 PM
 #101


I asked for a diagnosis from a qualified person. You provided books, not results of a diagnosis. The first reference does not address your premise. It does not serve as coherent evidence to prove that the names you cited were afflicted by sociopathy.

Quote
Sometimes you just know 'em when you see 'em….
Historical sociopaths: Hitler, Stalin, Rasputin, Eichmann, Pol Pot, John Gotti

That is not a diagnosis, that is an assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence.
Did you read the book? It's available on Kindle, you could start reading it in less than a minute. Perhaps a little longer if you have to search Pirate bay.

Oh the irony. I'll accept this as nullification of everything you've ever said while in the absence of knowledge to be found in the books I recommended and which you pointedly refused to read because they would cost you effort to read. Don't make me point to all the posts where you complained about being asked to read a book that might require you to pay money or hike your ass down to the library.

Find the links and start reading.

I don't have a PhD. She does. He requested a diagnosis from a "qualified person." I am not such. She is. You, presumably, understand the subject you wish "educate" me on. That makes you qualified to explain it to me. I don't want scientific studies, I want your personal opinions on the matter. You know where you can stick them.

As you said, you perceive me to be qualified to educate you on these matters. That may be so, but I simply don't desire to be the equivalent of a two semester teacher for you, especially when there are several books written by those with PhDs on the subject. And thank you for valuing my personal opinion. However, again, it would be better for both of us if you read the books I recommended.
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December 02, 2012, 06:16:31 PM
 #102

There it was again. This one sounded a little more moist... I think someone should check their pants.

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December 02, 2012, 06:26:12 PM
 #103

Ah, the pleasantries of being ignored by gas bags. They have to admit to unignoring you to comment on the content of your post. Otherwise, we can discuss their stupidity amongst our peers without having to listen to their responses which inevitably contain circular logic and hypocrisy. Furthermore, the public can read our analysis of the ignorer's posts without having to deal with the ridiculousness of their retorts.

It's like being able to listen to a gang of thugs planning their next crime and comment on it without them being aware.
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December 02, 2012, 06:37:57 PM
 #104

Man, it's starting to get stinky in here. Talk about gasbag.

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December 02, 2012, 06:55:18 PM
 #105

Quote
Straw Man occurs when an opponent takes the original argument of his/her adversary and then offers a close imitation, or straw man, version of the original argument

My version of your original argument:
Straw man.
Which you then attempted to defeat, in typical AugustoCrappo style, with dictionary definitions.

Yes there is: your claim that what I am saying is that fascism = sociopaths.

Please, quote the post where I claimed you were 'saying ... that fascism = sociopaths'. Failure to provide the quote with that claim will prove that you are intentionally distorting the subject with false allegation of a logical fallacy. If you think I had changed any previous post, I allow you to ask Theymos for the original post.

Where roses exist in gardens, they are the centerpiece.
Where sociopaths exist in governments, they are in the leadership positions.

Who decide the 'roses' are the centerpiece?

I'm now strongly of the opinion that you are deficient in some way, and cannot understand analogies.

It is quite difficult to understand stupid analogies, but is not impossible.

Of course they can be found in other political regimes! I never argued otherwise.

So why you are insisting that I made a straw man argument? The argument which you qualify as straw man is exactly what you are admitting above.

I ignored it because it was based on a false premise. A flawed understanding of my analogy. I continue to ignore it for the same reason, just as I ignore your attempt at diversion.

You affirmed that you explained your analogy in 'great details'. So why cannot you explain this interesting small detail:

This beg the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders sociopaths to the political structure? Where this 'temptation' come from?

Failure to answer the above question will prove that you did not explained anything in 'great details'.

No, but they know that they enjoy exercising power over others, doing whatever they want, and avoiding consequences. Politics is a great way to achieve these ends, and their ability to lie convincingly, their "glibness and superficial charm," their manipulative nature, afford them a means to achieve political power. A sociopath makes a great political candidate. I notice you skipped the listing of diagnostic criteria... good choice, since I could provide specific examples of politicians displaying nearly every one of them.

There is consequences! The sociopaths are not able to control the ability to lie. Therefore, would be quite difficult to a sociopath become elected. Do you even understand that? Do you even understand that to elect a politician is necessary a long campaign of alliances, agreements, promises, debates, speech, etc.?

I notice you skipped the listing of diagnostic criteria... good choice, since I could provide specific examples of politicians displaying nearly every one of them.



In accordance with your delusional assumption, the above characters had:

Well, let's run down the list, shall we?
Quote
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Yup.
Quote
Manipulative and Conning
Yup.
Quote
Pathological Lying
Yup.
Quote
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
Yup.
Quote
Shallow Emotions
Yup.
Quote
Incapacity for Love
Hmm. No proof of this one.
Quote
Need for Stimulation
Yup.
Quote
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Yup.
Quote
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Yup.
Quote
Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Yup.
Quote
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Yup.
Quote
Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Oh hell yes.
Quote
Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Don't you know it.
Quote
Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Yup.

Did you read the book? It's available on Kindle, you could start reading it in less than a minute. Perhaps a little longer if you have to search Pirate bay.

It was written by a Dr. of Psychology. The explanation and evidence is rarely to be found in an interview... but it is to be found in the book. Regardless, when a Dr. of Psychology says someone is a sociopath, that is a diagnosis. If your doctor told you you had cancer, would you call it an "assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence?"

Of course I did not read the book! I will not read a whole book to satisfy your delusions. I asked for a diagnosis, not for a book. If the book contains the diagnosis, all you have to do is to quote the relevant parts and post here.

If your doctor told you you had cancer, would you call it an "assumption without any reasonable explanation or evidence?"

I would ask to see the diagnosis.

Please, just admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth by responding without watching the video, and for fuck's sake, stop chewing!

You can beg as much you wish, but I will not admit anything at all.
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December 02, 2012, 07:01:52 PM
 #106

Whoah! That one was the biggest of them all! I think we need to crack a window or something, or we may suffocate.

Especially this part:
Please, just admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth by responding without watching the video, and for fuck's sake, stop chewing!

You can beg as much you wish, but I will not admit anything at all.
The whole post, just so much hot, stinky wind.

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December 02, 2012, 07:08:03 PM
 #107

You've now made four posts in a row like that. One or two wouldn't call too much attention to yourself, but you've made four in a row. In each, you never actually demonstrate any substantive thought process, argument, logic, or provision of fact.

That is why I made a special thread to expose Rudd-O:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125825.0
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December 02, 2012, 07:09:41 PM
 #108

You've now made four posts in a row like that. One or two wouldn't call too much attention to yourself, but you've made four in a row. In each, you never actually demonstrate any substantive thought process, argument, logic, or provision of fact.

That is why I made a special thread to expose Rudd-O:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125825.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126403.0

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December 02, 2012, 07:10:54 PM
 #109

Whoah! That one was the biggest of them all! I think we need to crack a window or something, or we may suffocate.

Especially this part:
Please, just admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth by responding without watching the video, and for fuck's sake, stop chewing!

You can beg as much you wish, but I will not admit anything at all.
The whole post, just so much hot, stinky wind.

This is willful ignorance. I suggest you at least prove that I made a straw argument. Otherwise, I will have a reason to expose you as I had made with Rudd-O.
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December 02, 2012, 07:13:31 PM
 #110

Whoah! That one was the biggest of them all! I think we need to crack a window or something, or we may suffocate.

Especially this part:
Please, just admit that you stuck your foot in your mouth by responding without watching the video, and for fuck's sake, stop chewing!

You can beg as much you wish, but I will not admit anything at all.
The whole post, just so much hot, stinky wind.

This is willful ignorance. I suggest you at least prove that I made a straw argument. Otherwise, I will have a reason to expose you as I had made with Rudd-O.
Ooooh, that's a threat. I'm scared, now. Roll Eyes Whatever will I do if you make a thread about me?

Willful ignorance, huh? Like refusing to watch a video before commenting on it's content?

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December 02, 2012, 07:14:30 PM
 #111

You've now made four posts in a row like that. One or two wouldn't call too much attention to yourself, but you've made four in a row. In each, you never actually demonstrate any substantive thought process, argument, logic, or provision of fact.

That is why I made a special thread to expose Rudd-O:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=125825.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=126403.0

Thank you by the free publicity! I had more people reading the threads after your failed attempt to censor my expression.
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December 02, 2012, 07:22:19 PM
Last edit: December 02, 2012, 07:33:45 PM by augustocroppo
 #112

Ooooh, that's a threat. I'm scared, now. Roll Eyes Whatever will I do if you make a thread about me?

Willful ignorance, huh? Like refusing to watch a video before commenting on it's content?

You are intentionally refusing to prove that your allegation is right. Moreover, I already provided quotes from references to substantiate this debate. This is completely different than ask to someone watch a video or read a whole book. Different from you, I raise arguments based on reliable evidence, which anyone can easily verify.

You can pretend that you are not scared, but you know that if I do a thread for you like I did for Rudd-O you will be affected. You know this because you have already appealed to the moderators to intervene for Rudd-O.
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December 02, 2012, 07:31:03 PM
 #113

Ooooh, that's a threat. I'm scared, now. Roll Eyes Whatever will I do if you make a thread about me?

Willful ignorance, huh? Like refusing to watch a video before commenting on it's content?

Oh, my initial questions do not have anything to do with the video content, but the implication made by the original poster:

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?

I required an explanation from an user and your intervened with a stupid analogy which did not explained the relationship of fascism and sociopathy. When I deconstructed your analogy, you proceeded to stir up the discussion with an allegation of logical fallacy. That means the debate is not about the video content, but about a relationship of fascism and sociopathy which you failed to explain.
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December 02, 2012, 07:38:50 PM
 #114

Ooooh, that's a threat. I'm scared, now. Roll Eyes Whatever will I do if you make a thread about me?

Willful ignorance, huh? Like refusing to watch a video before commenting on it's content?

You are intentionally refusing to prove that your allegation is right. Moreover, I already provided quotes from references to substantiate this debate. This is completely different than ask to someone watch a video or read a whole book. Different from you, I raise arguments based on reliable evidence, which anyone can verify easily.
You quoted a dictionary. Good for you. That doesn't argue against the fact that you will find Sociopaths in governments, and that fascist governments provide a very tempting target for sociopaths to seek, since it offers them quite a bit of control over others, which is exactly what they like.

Your assertion that sociopaths couldn't get elected because they can't stop lying is particularly laughable. Plug this into Google: "How do you know when a politician is lying?"

You can pretend that you are not scared, but you know that if I do a thread for you like I did for Rudd-O you will be affected. You know this because you have already appealed to the moderators intervene for Rudd-O.
Where, exactly, did I ask the moderators to delete your threads?

That means the debate is not about the video content, but about a relationship of fascism and sociopathy which you failed to explain.
I did explain it. Fascism attracts sociopaths. Thus, you will find sociopaths in fascistic power structures.

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December 02, 2012, 08:21:42 PM
 #115

Ignore the walkie stalkie augustocreepo.  He feeds on attention.  Don't feed him.  Your life is far too valuable to be reading the garbage they spew.  Simply add him to your ignore list, and then (whenever he posts on any thread you've posted) make a one-line note saying you're ignoring him because he's a provocateur / asshole / saboteur / et cetera, and inviting others to do the same.
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December 02, 2012, 08:24:22 PM
 #116



or



You choose.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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December 02, 2012, 08:27:10 PM
 #117

Ignore the walkie stalkie augustocreepo.  He feeds on attention.  Don't feed him.
I use the ignore feature more like a downvote. I occasionally interact with people on my "shit-list," but having them on ignore gives me the option of not even seeing their drivel unless I want to, which is nice.

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December 02, 2012, 08:29:07 PM
 #118

Ignore the walkie stalkie augustocreepo.  He feeds on attention.  Don't feed him.
I use the ignore feature more like a downvote. I occasionally interact with people on my "shit-list," but having them on ignore gives me the option of not even seeing their drivel unless I want to, which is nice.

Well, the thing is, when you interact with them, they (and possibly others) interpret your behavior as validation of their shitty conduct.  Not to mention that the thread becomes about THEIR garbage, rather than the topic at hand.  That's why it's superior, more effective, better on your time expenditure, to ignore them, and then making short notes warning other people not to interact with the shitheads.
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December 02, 2012, 08:37:15 PM
 #119

Ignore the walkie stalkie augustocreepo.  He feeds on attention.  Don't feed him.
I use the ignore feature more like a downvote. I occasionally interact with people on my "shit-list," but having them on ignore gives me the option of not even seeing their drivel unless I want to, which is nice.

Well, the thing is, when you interact with them, they (and possibly others) interpret your behavior as validation of their shitty conduct.  Not to mention that the thread becomes about THEIR garbage, rather than the topic at hand.  That's why it's superior, more effective, better on your time expenditure, to ignore them, and then making short notes warning other people not to interact with the shitheads.

Good point.
You choose.
My vote is the latter option. Crappo can't even parse an analogy right.

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December 02, 2012, 10:17:57 PM
 #120

You quoted a dictionary. Good for you. That doesn't argue against the fact that you will find Sociopaths in governments, and that fascist governments provide a very tempting target for sociopaths to seek, since it offers them quite a bit of control over others, which is exactly what they like.

There is no target, there is no tempting. Sociopaths are individuals afflicted by a psychological disorder, which does affect them and the people around them. Sociopaths are not the occasional liars. Politicians are the occasional liars.

Your assertion that sociopaths couldn't get elected because they can't stop lying is particularly laughable. Plug this into Google: "How do you know when a politician is lying?"

That is the first entry...

Quote
How can you tell when a politician is lying?
Jokes and Riddles Questions
Answers.com > Wiki Answers > Categories > Humor & Amusement > Jokes and Riddles

Best Answer
The standard answer to the joke is, "His lips are moving."

The deal seems to be that getting elected is a different job than actually being in the position. Circumstances are more real and have contraints that are not necessarily visible from outside the office.

(facebook) family feud answers:

1 eyes
2 sweating
3 stutters
4 smile
5 lips are moving (haha!)

...and that the second:

Quote
Politicians lie because the public wants to be lied to

The reasons politicians lie is because the public doesn't want to hear the truth. People want to hear what they want to hear. When two candidates are running and one of the tells the truth and the other says what the public wants to hear, the one who says what the public wants to hear wins the election. Thus, and there are exceptions to this, if you want to win an election, you better start lying, because the guy who's telling you the truth doesn't have a chance.

Politicians indeed lie to satisfy the public and obtain an advantage over their opponents.

That is occasional lying, not pathological lying:

http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/liar-liar-pants-fire-am-i-pathological-liar

Quote
Liar, liar, pants on fire: Am I a pathological liar? | related questions
Originally Published: August 22, 2003 - Last Updated / Reviewed On: May 8, 2009

Dear Reader,

Truth be told, little research has been done on pathological lying. Though there's no exact medical definition, pathological lying is characterized by the following:

Lies are unplanned and impulsive.
Behavior is repeated over a long period of time.
Lies don't seem to exist for any external reason.
Behavior may not always be a conscious act.
Lies are admitted, changed, and/or adapted if a false story is challenged.

Pathological lying is one of the symptoms of sociopathy:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000921.htm

Quote
Causes
The causes of antisocial personality disorder are unknown. Genetic factors and child abuse are believed to contribute to the development of this condition. People with an antisocial or alcoholic parent are at increased risk. Far more men than women are affected. The condition is common in people who are in prison.

Fire-setting and cruelty to animals during childhood are linked to the development of antisocial personality.

Symptoms
A person with antisocial personality disorder may:

Be able to act witty and charming
Be good at flattery and manipulating other people's emotions
Break the law repeatedly
Disregard the safety of self and others
Have problems with substance abuse
Lie, steal, and fight often
Not show guilt or remorse
Often be angry or arrogant

Alternative Names
Sociopathic personality; Sociopathy; Personality disorder - antisocial

Outlook (Prognosis)
Symptoms tend to peak during the late teenage years and early 20s. They sometimes improve on their own by a person's 40s.

Possible Complications
Complications can include imprisonment, drug abuse, violence, and suicide.

Sociopathy is a personality disorder. The actions of a sociopath would not allow them to become politicians. Sociopaths are not able to develop interpersonal relationships which is an essential characteristic of  politicians. Even if politicians lie to the public, they will have to tell the truth to someone, either in the office, at home or in a private meeting. Alliances, diplomacy, agreements, requirements, etc., all this requires a certain dose of truth. Sociopaths cannot provide this necessary dose of truth.

If a politician is correctly diagnosed as a sociopath, that does not imply that all politicians are sociopaths neither that all sociopaths aspire to become politicians. There is not an exclusive relationship.

Where, exactly, did I ask the moderators to delete your threads?

At no moment did  you ask the moderators to delete threads. That is called moderation, not censorship. I did not suggest that. You started a thread in the forum section asking: 'Can we stop this sort of idiocy?'

Who is 'we'? Were you not expecting the moderators to read your humble appeal?

It's not free speech, it's trolling. And isn't Meta supposed to be about the forum, and not the forum members?

Good try.

I did explain it. Fascism attracts sociopaths. Thus, you will find sociopaths in fascistic power structures.

You did not... You did not even explain in 'great details' the small detail:

Of course they do. But where roses exist inside a garden, they are the centerpiece (leadership, in our analogy), or often the entire theme of the garden (the entire power structure, in our example). You can have a garden without roses,  but the temptation to add a rosebush is constant (Fascistic governments attract sociopaths), and once you have one rosebush, you're well on your way to having a rose garden (sociopaths tend to take over any fascistic power structure they are introduced to).

This begs the question: who is the subject under the 'temptation' to add political leaders sociopaths to the political structure? Where does this 'temptation' come from?
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December 02, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
 #121

I know someone who acts like a sociopath. He has the following qualities:

- Denies his past behavior when it is inconvenient for him
- Takes people to court all the time to sue for petty issues
- Vandalizes the property of people he has disputes with
- Has no empathy for other people's feelings
- Never maintains a friendship with people once they discover what he's really like
- Always makes sure he pays less than the other guy in mutual outings
- Pesters eternally until the other party gives in to his demands
- Has poisoned animals as revenge for deals or arguments that didn't go his way
- Mistreats pets
- Abuses family
- Does not ever care if his actions inconvenience others
- Is tighter beyond belief with his money
- Does not care how others perceive him or his actions
- Forces other people to do things against their will if he has leverage
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December 02, 2012, 10:48:56 PM
 #122

I know someone who acts like a sociopath. He has the following qualities:

- Denies his past behavior when it is inconvenient for him
- Takes people to court all the time to sue for petty issues
- Vandalizes the property of people he has disputes with
- Has no empathy for other people's feelings
- Never maintains a friendship with people once they discover what he's really like
- Always makes sure he pays less than the other guy in mutual outings
- Pesters eternally until the other party gives in to his demands
- Has poisoned animals as revenge for deals or arguments that didn't go his way
- Mistreats pets
- Abuses family
- Does not ever care if his actions inconvenience others
- Is tighter beyond belief with his money
- Does not care how others perceive him or his actions
- Forces other people to do things against their will if he has leverage
I'm glad you've decided to finally admit you have a problem.

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December 02, 2012, 10:54:15 PM
 #123



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December 03, 2012, 09:25:44 AM
 #124

I love these threads, two more for my ignore list: FirstAscent and augustocroppo.

One off NP-Hard.
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December 03, 2012, 09:18:39 PM
 #125

I love these threads, two more for my ignore list: FirstAscent and augustocroppo.

Hooray!

I also love these threads because they cause the sociopaths to identify themselves.
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December 04, 2012, 01:43:21 PM
 #126

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

The Dunning-Kruger experiments (mentioned in the first video) show that people who are bad at something not only grossly overestimate their own abilities but also miss the meta-cognitive skills to recognize their mistakes and fail to recognize competence in their peers.

While the plants in the garden worship the roses, they fail to recognize the wisdom of the trees. If they did, the garden could blossom into a forest, creating a complex ecosystem where many more species could develop and thrive.

I guess the roses are not the real problem. The plants are.
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December 04, 2012, 06:33:55 PM
 #127

These two videos discuss the prevalence of sociopaths in society, how they disguise themselves, and the lengths they'll go to in order to avoid detection.

The Fascists That Surround You - Part 1
The Fascists That Surround You - Part 2: Sociopaths

What fascism have anything to do with sociopaths?
Fascism:Sociopaths::Garden:Roses.

The Dunning-Kruger experiments (mentioned in the first video) show that people who are bad at something not only grossly overestimate their own abilities but also miss the meta-cognitive skills to recognize their mistakes and fail to recognize competence in their peers.

While the plants in the garden worship the roses, they fail to recognize the wisdom of the trees. If they did, the garden could blossom into a forest, creating a complex ecosystem where many more species could develop and thrive.

I guess the roses are not the real problem. The plants are.


Well said.

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December 04, 2012, 07:25:04 PM
 #128

The Dunning-Kruger experiments (mentioned in the first video) show that people who are bad at something not only grossly overestimate their own abilities but also miss the meta-cognitive skills to recognize their mistakes and fail to recognize competence in their peers.

While the plants in the garden worship the roses, they fail to recognize the wisdom of the trees. If they did, the garden could blossom into a forest, creating a complex ecosystem where many more species could develop and thrive.

I guess the roses are not the real problem. The plants are.

Well said.

Yes, well done, the analogy became more stupid than before!

Plants do not worship roses and gardens are not made to become forests.
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December 05, 2012, 06:16:34 AM
 #129

OP updated to include part 3.
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December 05, 2012, 09:17:43 AM
 #130

OP updated to include part 3.

Hell yeah! Thanks!

Bmup!!!
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December 05, 2012, 09:58:31 AM
 #131

OP updated to include part 3.

Hell yeah! Thanks!

Bmup!!!

The brain researcher mentioned at the start of part 3 is featured in this episode of Through the Wormhole:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZjc5VwSlzA
Good episode, especially the stuff with the kids.

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December 05, 2012, 02:50:39 PM
 #132

The brain researcher mentioned at the start of part 3 is featured in this episode of Through the Wormhole:

I am still waiting you to prove that I made a straw man. Where is the post where I said you were equaling fascists with sociopath?

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December 05, 2012, 04:16:06 PM
Last edit: December 05, 2012, 05:18:09 PM by myrkul
 #133

You're kidding, right? Your whole argument is predicated on the fact that the words mean different things, and are in your mind therefore unrelated:

I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

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December 05, 2012, 04:47:49 PM
 #134

You're kidding, right?

I am not.

I am asking you to prove that your allegation of straw man is right, that I limited your original argument to:

Fascism = Sociopaths

All you have to do is show the quote where I suggested that. If you cannot show the quote, you should admit that I did not resort to a straw man argument.

Yes there is: your claim that what I am saying is that fascism = sociopaths. since that's clearly false, and I never claimed that, That is a straw man, that you set up so you could knock down with definitions. Unless you are just a fucking moron, and can't understand an analogy. So which is it, Straw man, or moron?

Straw man.
Which you then attempted to defeat, in typical AugustoCrappo style, with dictionary definitions.

You also should offer your apologies for the lack of respect you show. My name is very important to me and I dislike people which try to subvert my name to offend me.
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December 05, 2012, 05:05:48 PM
 #135

You're kidding, right?

I am not.

I am asking you to prove that your allegation of straw man is right, that I limited your original argument to:

Fascism = Sociopaths

All you have to do is show the quote where I suggested that.

I have already:
I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

You also should offer your apologies for the lack of respect you show. My name is very important to me and I dislike people which try to subvert my name to offend me.
Respect is earned. You have not. In fact, you have earned disrespect. You'll get no apologies from me, AugustoCrappo.

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December 05, 2012, 05:24:12 PM
Last edit: December 21, 2012, 02:10:42 AM by augustocroppo
 #136

I have already:
I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

The quote do not show any claim that I said you were equaling fascism to sociopathy. That is the post I used to answer why I was participating in this thread.

Where is the post where I suggested that you were equaling fascism to sociopathy?

Respect is earned. You have not. In fact, you have earned disrespect. You'll get no apologies from me, AugustoCrappo.

Respect is also offered. You are not offering any respect.
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December 05, 2012, 05:31:03 PM
Last edit: December 05, 2012, 05:51:36 PM by myrkul
 #137

I have already:
I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.

The quote do not show any claim that I said you were equaling fascism to sociopathy. That is the post I used to answer why I was participating in this thread.

Where is the post where I suggested that you were equaling fascism to sociopathy?
I care for textual definitions. You are producing a false relation between two different definitions.
Respect is earned. You have not. In fact, you have earned disrespect. You'll get no apologies from me, AugustoCrappo.

Respect is also offered. You are not offering any respect.
Nor will I, Asshole.

Does it make you feel like a big man to insult a defenseless child who is not even part of this conversation? Seriously, Fuck you. I'm done with you for good.

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December 05, 2012, 05:39:28 PM
Last edit: December 21, 2012, 02:11:03 AM by augustocroppo
 #138

Nor will I, Asshole.

Of course you will not. You are not going to admit that you made a mistake or that you were doing false allegations. Your arrogance is staggering. After all, you still think that you had earned respect by subverting definitions and user names...

Does it make you feel like a big man to attack a defenseless child who is not even part of this conversation? Seriously, Fuck you. I'm done with you for good.

I am only offering my respect for you.
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December 05, 2012, 06:13:36 PM
 #139

Fantastic, if blood-chilling, part 3 of the fascists around you series.  It starts off a little slow, but the second part is simply spot-on and well-paced.

I am impressed.
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December 05, 2012, 06:21:41 PM
 #140

Fantastic, if blood-chilling, part 3 of the fascists around you series.  It starts off a little slow, but the second part is simply spot-on and well-paced.

I am impressed.

Easily rivals UPB for his best work.

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December 05, 2012, 06:23:12 PM
 #141

Fantastic, if blood-chilling, part 3 of the fascists around you series.  It starts off a little slow, but the second part is simply spot-on and well-paced.

I am impressed.

Easily rivals UPB for his best work.

That's what I was thinking!
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December 05, 2012, 07:32:54 PM
 #142

Part 4 added to OP.

He's being unusually productive with regards to the podcasts recently.
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December 05, 2012, 07:37:01 PM
 #143

Part 4 added to OP.

He's being unusually productive with regards to the podcasts recently.

WAT part four?HuhHuhHuh
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December 05, 2012, 07:48:54 PM
 #144

Fantastic, if blood-chilling, part 3 of the fascists around you series.  It starts off a little slow, but the second part is simply spot-on and well-paced.

I am impressed.

Easily rivals UPB for his best work.

That's what I was thinking!

What/who is UPB?

This is great stuff BTW, for those who want to take the red pill and see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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December 05, 2012, 07:53:50 PM
 #145

Fantastic, if blood-chilling, part 3 of the fascists around you series.  It starts off a little slow, but the second part is simply spot-on and well-paced.

I am impressed.

Easily rivals UPB for his best work.

That's what I was thinking!

What/who is UPB?

Stef's book, Universally Preferable Behaviour. Basically, Rational ethics, without religion.

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December 06, 2012, 12:02:26 AM
 #146

Stef's part four cast accurately predicted the behavior of the sociopaths in this thread attempting to shout these truths down.

Eerily accurate.
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December 06, 2012, 12:05:34 AM
Last edit: December 06, 2012, 02:33:59 AM by myrkul
 #147

Stef's part four cast accurately predicted the behavior of the sociopaths in this thread attempting to shout these truths down.

Eerily accurate.

Yup, everything from lying, attempts to discredit, and out-and-out personal attacks.
Lying,
The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths).

At no moment I claimed or suggested that you were equaling fascism with sociopathy.

Attempts to discredit,
Your analogy is beyond stupid.

Pesonal attacks.
I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.

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December 06, 2012, 07:22:19 AM
 #148

I'll say it in big letters so you won't miss it:

You are an asshat.

Fuck you.  Suck a bag of dicks, shithead.

Killfile'd.

Rudd-O's behavior is indeed rather distasteful, and I find it doesn't comport with my expectations required for sophisticated discourse on these forums. At best, his scribblings are peremptory in tone, and more commonly, he is cantankerous and pugnacious, even bellicose. Achieving harmonious accord with the likes of him is unlikely. Best if you ignore him and his adjunct, myrkul.
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December 06, 2012, 08:15:32 AM
 #149

AugustoCroppo's favorite book:

FirstAscent's favorite book:

Both's #2 book:

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December 06, 2012, 01:54:41 PM
Last edit: December 06, 2012, 02:05:05 PM by augustocroppo
 #150

Yup, everything from lying, attempts to discredit, and out-and-out personal attacks.
Lying,
The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths).

At no moment I claimed or suggested that you were equaling fascism with sociopathy.

No, that is not a lie. You are quoting out of context. That post was not for you:

So, where is the explanation followed by conclusive evidence?
In the videos you didn't watch, and in the listed sources you didn't read.

You made this thread. I could care less for the video content. The description you made in the original post imply that sociopaths are fascists (or fascists are sociopaths). I am challenging you to explain what relates a political regime to a psychological disorder.

So when I said that 'at no moment I claimed or suggested that you were equaling fascism with sociopaths', you is Myrkul, not Justusranvier. Therefore, I told the truth and you insisted to keep lying.

Attempts to discredit,
Your analogy is beyond stupid.

I am sorry, but that was not an attempt to discredit to you.

Quote
Definition of discredit
[with object]
harm the good reputation of

Call your analogy stupid is not equivalent to harm your reputation. I said 'your analogy is stupid', not 'you are stupid'.

Pesonal attacks.
I did not even watched the first video and I find you very pathetic.

That is right. That was a personal attack.
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December 06, 2012, 02:09:38 PM
 #151

Stop the hate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=5IvPIWzQcUY

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December 06, 2012, 06:49:00 PM
 #152

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
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December 06, 2012, 06:53:24 PM
 #153

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
The best part: the fascists defended the sociopaths, and the sociopaths defended the fascists.

At least they know which side their bread is buttered on.

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December 06, 2012, 07:07:00 PM
 #154

FirstAscent's favorite book:


Nope. My last post was inspired by Jack Vance. The vocabulary completely from his works.
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December 06, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
 #155

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
The best part: the fascists defended the sociopaths, and the sociopaths defended the fascists.

At least they know which side their bread is buttered on.

I'm bumping this thread so people watch the videos, and including a link to the playlist I published:

http://rudd-o.com/archives/the-sociopaths-that-surround-you
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December 06, 2012, 09:56:24 PM
 #156

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
The best part: the fascists defended the sociopaths, and the sociopaths defended the fascists.

At least they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Can you imagine what a country ruled by Augusto Crappo would look like....

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December 06, 2012, 10:24:04 PM
 #157

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
The best part: the fascists defended the sociopaths, and the sociopaths defended the fascists.

At least they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Can you imagine what a country ruled by Augusto Crappo would look like....

Something like this, I'd imagine...

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December 06, 2012, 10:40:49 PM
 #158

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

This is why I never visit the city anymore because this scenario is entirely possible and gives me nightmares.

People who think this is utterly ridiculous and would never happen are the ones to avoid, because they will be the crowd.

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December 06, 2012, 10:49:21 PM
 #159

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

This is why I never visit the city anymore because this scenario is entirely possible and gives me nightmares.

People who think this is utterly ridiculous and would never happen are the ones to avoid, because they will be the crowd.

Quote from: George Orwell
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

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December 07, 2012, 03:43:11 AM
 #160

Part 5 is now available.
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December 07, 2012, 03:50:03 AM
 #161

Part 5 is now available.

Stef's been busy!

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December 07, 2012, 06:31:04 PM
 #162

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.
The best part: the fascists defended the sociopaths, and the sociopaths defended the fascists.

At least they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Can you imagine what a country ruled by Augusto Crappo would look like....

Yes.  Like this:

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December 07, 2012, 06:31:40 PM
 #163

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.
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December 07, 2012, 06:32:58 PM
 #164

People who think this is utterly ridiculous and would never happen are the ones to avoid, because they will be the crowd.

Very well said.  Funnily, these people will join the ranks of the 270 million corpses that statism has produced (just 20th century, excluding wars), or will fund and cheer the people producing the corpses.
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December 07, 2012, 07:03:13 PM
 #165

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.
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December 07, 2012, 07:07:51 PM
 #166

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.

Your logical fallacy is...

Now, did you have an argument?

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December 07, 2012, 07:11:07 PM
 #167

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.

Your logical fallacy is...

Untrue, but I'm not surprised at your own love affair with ad hominem. The truth of the matter is, I provided your fellow whiner with some advice based upon my observations. That isn't ad hominem.
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December 07, 2012, 07:14:33 PM
 #168

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.

Your logical fallacy is...

Untrue, but I'm not surprised at your own love affair with ad hominem. The truth of the matter is, I provided your fellow whiner with some advice based upon my observations. That isn't ad hominem.

You called him "mentally unstable" and implied that made him unable to make an argument. That's textbook ad hominem. Do you have an actual argument?

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December 07, 2012, 07:15:52 PM
 #169

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.

Your logical fallacy is...

Untrue, but I'm not surprised at your own love affair with ad hominem. The truth of the matter is, I provided your fellow whiner with some advice based upon my observations. That isn't ad hominem.

You called him "mentally unstable" and implied that made him unable to make an argument. That's textbook ad hominem. Do you have an actual argument?

No. I called him unstable because of his paranoia.
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December 07, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
 #170

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.

Your logical fallacy is...

Untrue, but I'm not surprised at your own love affair with ad hominem. The truth of the matter is, I provided your fellow whiner with some advice based upon my observations. That isn't ad hominem.

You called him "mentally unstable" and implied that made him unable to make an argument. That's textbook ad hominem. Do you have an actual argument?

No. I called him unstable because of his paranoia.

So do you have an actual argument, or are you going to continue digging that hole?

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December 07, 2012, 07:34:23 PM
 #171

So do you have an actual argument, or are you going to continue digging that hole?

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

And from that article:

Quote
See also:

    Catastrophization
    Conspiracy theory
    Delusions of reference           
    Distrust
    Fusion paranoia
    Ideas of reference
    Monomania
    Narcissistic personality disorder
    Paranoid personality disorder
    Paranoid social cognition
    Pronoia
    Querulant
    Religious paranoia
    Schizophrenia
    Whispers: The Voices of Paranoia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusions_of_reference

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distrust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_paranoia#Fusion_paranoia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_social_cognition

Let's now revisit what he says should be multiplied by a million:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.
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December 07, 2012, 07:36:38 PM
 #172

So do you have an actual argument, or are you going to continue digging that hole?

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Digging it is. Right then. Let me know when you've calmed down.

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December 07, 2012, 08:08:23 PM
 #173

So do you have an actual argument, or are you going to continue digging that hole?

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Digging it is. Right then. Let me know when you've calmed down.

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.
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December 07, 2012, 08:16:46 PM
 #174

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

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December 07, 2012, 08:29:05 PM
Last edit: December 07, 2012, 08:41:27 PM by Rudd-O
 #175

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  That's what they do -- since I represent what they can't bring themselves to be, I obviously embody what they hate, thus they need to "destroy" me personally.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.
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December 07, 2012, 08:41:38 PM
 #176

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.

You mean like the Kelly Thomas murder? The police who killed him are despicable pieces of shit, without a doubt. But I don't magnify events such as those into a fear that resembles the quote above. That's the difference.
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December 07, 2012, 08:48:14 PM
 #177

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.

You mean like the Kelly Thomas murder? The police who killed him are despicable pieces of shit, without a doubt. But I don't magnify events such as those into a fear that resembles the quote above. That's the difference.

Except these are not isolated incidents. They happen nearly constantly, to the point that a polite, kind, friendly policeman is the exception now, no longer the rule. The police are not your friends. They are not on "your side."

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December 07, 2012, 08:52:25 PM
 #178

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.

You mean like the Kelly Thomas murder? The police who killed him are despicable pieces of shit, without a doubt. But I don't magnify events such as those into a fear that resembles the quote above. That's the difference.

Except these are not isolated incidents. They happen nearly constantly, to the point that a polite, kind, friendly policeman is the exception now, no longer the rule. The police are not your friends. They are not on "your side."

In this instance, you're wrong, my man.  A sociopath like FirstAsshat is obviously going to perceive police (sociopaths) as his friend
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December 07, 2012, 08:56:04 PM
 #179

In this instance, you're wrong, my man.  A sociopath like FirstAsshat is obviously going to perceive police (sociopaths) as his friend

His perception is irrelevant. Regardless of whether or not he's on their side, they're not on his. They came for the Catholics, but I was not Catholic...

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December 07, 2012, 08:57:26 PM
 #180

Except these are not isolated incidents. They happen nearly constantly, to the point that a polite, kind, friendly policeman is the exception now, no longer the rule. The police are not your friends. They are not on "your side."
It's come to the point now that if you have any kind of interaction with the police at all you should consider yourself lucky if your dog isn't killed in front of you for no reason.
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December 07, 2012, 09:03:30 PM
 #181

Except these are not isolated incidents. They happen nearly constantly, to the point that a polite, kind, friendly policeman is the exception now, no longer the rule. The police are not your friends. They are not on "your side."
It's come to the point now that if you have any kind of interaction with the police at all you should consider yourself lucky if your dog isn't killed in front of you for no reason.
...Even if you're the mayor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwyn_Heights,_Maryland_mayor%27s_residence_drug_raid

(And it's not for "no reason," it's because they know quite well where the dog's loyalties lie, and it's sure as shit not to the State.)

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December 07, 2012, 09:05:27 PM
 #182

(And it's not for "no reason," it's because they know quite well where the dog's loyalties lie, and it's sure as shit not to the State.)
I stand corrected.
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December 07, 2012, 09:52:44 PM
 #183

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.

It is becoming clear that Rudd-O is projecting his psyche with his messages. He inserted himself in this thread only to 'attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs'. The evidence remains in his refusal to participate in the debate and his constant offensive messages. Myrkul at least try to debate and to reason for his ideas.

I thought Rudd-O was just a hypocritical person. I am inclined to think he is not just that...

Because hate.  He hates you and me and everyone else who presents ideas that scare him.  He has issues and he chooses to soothe his emotions by attacking and insulting others rather than by actually choosing to heal.  That's why.

Holy shit, that's right.  I remember him doing that to me, trying to defame me there.  He also wrote stalkerish PMs to me.  He's a creeper.  Ignore crappo.

He has no argument -- only hate for you, because you've stated that Daddy Gummint (the authority figures) is a sociopath, and how dare you say that about Daddy?  Ergo, he won't engage with you rationally -- he will only try to defame and discredit you.

Augustocrappo's is the standard childish conversation sabotage tactic.  He needs to learn how to get get the peanut butter out of his ears before he can sit at the big boys' table and interact with them.

I remember that part, yes.

That's precisely why this thread is so amusing.  Lotsa sociopaths showing their fangs around here.

By the way:

This is another thread littered with the emotional droppings of AugustoCreepo and FirstAsshat.

I highly suggest to everyone here to please add these assballs to your ignore list and ignore what they say.  They're empty-headed emotional wreckballs of hate.  The more attention you give them, the more they fulfill their goal: sabotaging discussion of ideas that terrify them.

Ignore the walkie stalkie augustocreepo.  He feeds on attention.  Don't feed him.  Your life is far too valuable to be reading the garbage they spew.  Simply add him to your ignore list, and then (whenever he posts on any thread you've posted) make a one-line note saying you're ignoring him because he's a provocateur / asshole / saboteur / et cetera, and inviting others to do the same.

Well, the thing is, when you interact with them, they (and possibly others) interpret your behavior as validation of their shitty conduct.  Not to mention that the thread becomes about THEIR garbage, rather than the topic at hand.  That's why it's superior, more effective, better on your time expenditure, to ignore them, and then making short notes warning other people not to interact with the shitheads.

I love these threads, two more for my ignore list: FirstAscent and augustocroppo.

Hooray!

I also love these threads because they cause the sociopaths to identify themselves.

Stef's part four cast accurately predicted the behavior of the sociopaths in this thread attempting to shout these truths down.

Eerily accurate.

Hahaha I love this thread, all of my ignore list jumped to bitch about it.





Rudd-O is one of the most sensible people I have seen here in a LONG time. He is intelligent and knows how to make an actual argument, which I can't say the same for the vast majority of the peanut gallery we have going on here. You guys better get together and gang up on him because he is just demolishing your "arguments", and as usual you retreat to the in house group of yes men and personal attacks. Good job Rudd-O. Keep up the good work.

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December 07, 2012, 10:06:28 PM
 #184

Rudd-O is one of the most sensible people I have seen here in a LONG time. He is intelligent and knows how to make an actual argument, which I can't say the same for the vast majority of the peanut gallery we have going on here. You guys better get together and gang up on him because he is just demolishing your "arguments"...

He did not even participated in the discussion and you think he is 'demolishing' my arguments?

You must be delusional like him...

...and as usual you retreat to the in house group of yes men and personal attacks. Good job Rudd-O. Keep up the good work.

You are certainly talking about justusranvier, mirkul and Rudd-O.
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December 07, 2012, 10:13:03 PM
 #185


Rudd-O is one of the most sensible people I have seen here in a LONG time. He is intelligent and knows how to make an actual argument, which I can't say the same for the vast majority of the peanut gallery we have going on here. You guys better get together and gang up on him because he is just demolishing your "arguments", and as usual you retreat to the in house group of yes men and personal attacks. Good job Rudd-O. Keep up the good work.

Thank you, profoundly, TECSHARE.  Thank you very much.  I appreciate your kind words.  :-)

The asshats will surely attempt to defame, discredit and provoke you.  Disregard the barking dogs -- they bark because they are anxious that we're making strides.
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December 07, 2012, 10:26:57 PM
 #186

When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.


This a million times.

Really? Seek help for your fictional delusions. You don't sound mentally stable.



It should not be natural to love the police and in todays world its all too common. I also say that they get a free pass on most occasions to do horrible things and most people will not say anything about it. Are you claiming otherwise ? How many people do you know would step in and prevent the police doing something ?

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December 07, 2012, 10:29:38 PM
 #187

I'm quite calm and objective. My observations of paranoia are accurate. Feel free to attempt to dispute the truth of my observations. Use this quote for reference:

Quote
When I think about the best way to describe what our modern day society looks like I imagine being surrounded by police who kick you to death while the crowd stands there watching.

Well, you're right in one aspect: They don't kick you to death... They shoot you.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/12/nyregion/police-fatally-shoot-man-brandishing-knife-in-times-square.html

It's quite funny to see sociopaths in this thread calling me "mentally unstable" when the events and actions I've pointed out can actually be observed in reality.  I guess when the reality one tries to deny is undeniable, the only recourse of the dishonest / sociopathic individual is to attack people to try and discredit / defame them at all costs.  Stef warned us about that in The Fascists That Surround You series.

One can't cover the Sun with one's thumb, but that won't stop statists from trying like the idiots they are.

You mean like the Kelly Thomas murder? The police who killed him are despicable pieces of shit, without a doubt. But I don't magnify events such as those into a fear that resembles the quote above. That's the difference.

My point is that if you were standing there at the time you wouldnt have done anything about them murdering the guy.

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December 07, 2012, 10:39:06 PM
 #188


"Did you know that over 60% of people will kill if ordered?"  Shocked

I always thought it is not that bad.

It's usually reported the other way around, (the percentage of soldiers who don't fire), and as a problem.

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