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[jlfvr]

@jlfvr your only other post is you talking about bustabit so clearly your just here to bash us.. Reading over your post all your saying we are untrustworthy. The same thing can be said for guys site. This site is all about player vs player when your site is players vs the house. Clearly we are a threat or you guys would not be putting so much effort into trying to make us look bad.

The game is fun the people are loving it. Stop trying to bash us.

I am not here to "bash you", I'm here because someone—who turned out to be an owner of your site—kept and keeps spamming links to btc-raffle in bustabit's chat, so I decided to take a closer look. Was that not the intention? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

I did not say anything regarding your trustworthiness—although your behaviour does raise some red flags—, I said that your site is not provably fair despite claiming to be. The concerns I brought up are of technical nature and as such are not affected by whether you question my motives or trust me. In fact, anyone can easily verify my claims.

The correct response on your side would be to refute those claims with a technical argument (not attacks on my character) or make improvements to your game if necessary. Speaking of which, you should stop sending your users' login credentials in the clear and start using SSL, especially since you are handling customer funds. Transport encryption is a low-effort, high-value necessity that you owe your players.

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[btc-raffle.com]

@jlfvr your only other post is you talking about bustabit so clearly your just here to bash us.. Reading over your post all your saying we are untrustworthy. The same thing can be said for guys site. This site is all about player vs player when your site is players vs the house. Clearly we are a threat or you guys would not be putting so much effort into trying to make us look bad.

The game is fun the people are loving it. Stop trying to bash us.

I am not here to "bash you", I'm here because someone—who turned out to be an owner of your site—kept and keeps spamming links to btc-raffle in bustabit's chat, so I decided to take a closer look. Was that not the intention? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

I did not say anything regarding your trustworthiness—although your behaviour does raise some red flags—, I said that your site is not provably fair despite claiming to be. The concerns I brought up are of technical nature and as such are not affected by whether you question my motives or trust me. In fact, anyone can easily verify my claims.

The correct response on your side would be to refute those claims with a technical argument (not attacks on my character) or make improvements to your game if necessary. Speaking of which, you should stop sending your users' login credentials in the clear and start using SSL, especially since you are handling customer funds. Transport encryption is a low-effort, high-value necessity that you owe your players.

Clearly your a bustabit admin. The fact you are saying the site is not provably fair is 100% false. We show a before and after hash. There is no way for us to rig any raffle.

[jlfvr]

Clearly your a bustabit admin. The fact you are saying the site is not provably fair is 100% false. We show a before and after hash. There is no way for us to rig any raffle.

I am familiar with your "provably fair" system and I have considered it in the example given in my previous post. Hashing a few values doesn't magically make your game provably fair—there is a lot more to it. As I have demonstrated, players can still be cheated by the operator fairly easily.

Although I am not the owner or administrator of bustabit, I do not see how that would invalidate the evidence I have presented even if it were the case.

Please take the time to read and understand the example in my previous post. There is also the issue of not using transport layer encryption (SSL), which you have yet to respond to as well. Your refusal to address these problems is quite telling.

[btc-raffle.com]

Clearly your a bustabit admin. The fact you are saying the site is not provably fair is 100% false. We show a before and after hash. There is no way for us to rig any raffle.

I am familiar with your "provably fair" system and I have considered it in the example given in my previous post. Hashing a few values doesn't magically make your game provably fair—there is a lot more to it. As I have demonstrated, players can still be cheated by the operator fairly easily.

Although I am not the owner or administrator of bustabit, I do not see how that would invalidate the evidence I have presented even if it were the case.

Please take the time to read and understand the example in my previous post. There is also the issue of not using transport layer encryption (SSL), which you have yet to respond to as well. Your refusal to address these problems is quite telling.

I do not think you are clear on how our "provably fair" works, or how our site works. So i will try again to explain it to you bustabit bashers.

The "lucky" number is picked before the game starts.
There is no way to change the lucky number.
It is impossible for someone to get the lucky number even if they know what it is.

Proof your a bustabit admin look at your other posts.

You guys need to just stop. I'm a competitor i get that but no need to be this ruthless. 

[jlfvr]

The "lucky" number is picked before the game starts.
There is no way to change the lucky number.

The lucky number is not picked (or at least the hash isn't displayed) until the first player purchases a ticket, but generally we are in agreement until here.

It is impossible for someone to get the lucky number even if they know what it is.

This is false. If the house knows the number is 10.000, for example, what stops it from waiting until new players are unlikely to join and then purchasing the winning ticket itself? The players would never know they've been cheated. This is the weakness I'm addressing in my previous post.

Proof your a bustabit admin look at your other posts.

You guys need to just stop. I'm a competitor i get that but no need to be this ruthless.  

Again: I do not own bustabit, nor am I an administrator or a moderator for bustabit. My one post in bustabit's thread doesn't make me a bustabit admin any more than my four posts in this thread make me an administrator of your game.

I also don't believe that pointing out technical issues qualifies as "ruthless" in any way.

[btc-raffle.com]

The "lucky" number is picked before the game starts.
There is no way to change the lucky number.

The lucky number is not picked (or at least the hash isn't displayed) until the first player purchases a ticket, but generally we are in agreement until here.

It is impossible for someone to get the lucky number even if they know what it is.

This is false. If the house knows the number is 10.000, for example, what stops it from waiting until new players are unlikely to join and then purchasing the winning ticket itself? The players would never know they've been cheated. This is the weakness I'm addressing in my previous post.

Proof your a bustabit admin look at your other posts.

You guys need to just stop. I'm a competitor i get that but no need to be this ruthless.  

Again: I do not own bustabit, nor am I an administrator or a moderator for bustabit. My one post in bustabit's thread doesn't make me a bustabit admin any more than my four posts in this thread make me an administrator of your game.

I also don't believe that pointing out technical issues qualifies as "ruthless" in any way.

Ok try this pretend you know the winning number. Say its 6000 can you show me how to get that number please?
Because its random when you buy a ticket.

Again: Your only other post is you talking about bustabit, does that make you a admin no, but it sure does make a red flag stand up saying you are. 

This is getting pretty said you guys are still trying to bash us.

[jlfvr]

Ok try this pretend you know the winning number. Say its 6000 can you show me how to get that number please?
Because its random when you buy a ticket.

If the ticket numbers were assigned to players randomly it would be easier—even trivial—for the house to cheat, not harder, because the house could simply "randomly" assign the winning ticket to a player it controls. There would be no way for players to verify that the tickets were indeed randomly allocated in your current system.

Instead, however, tickets appear to be split among players sequentially in the order in which they entered the game, as can be seen here.

This means it is not trivial for the house to cheat, but not terribly difficult either. Depending on the approximate number of players the house expects to join the round it will add its "puppets" at different points.

Let's assume that by counting how many players are currently online, how many participated in the last round and how many are able to participate in the next round, the house predicts that between three and seven players will join the round. Making accurate predictions within these bounds is fairly easy with the information the house has at its disposal.

Now the house waits for three legitimate players to join. If there are unexpectedly less players, the house simply passes and allows the round to end. If, on the other hand, three players A, B and C enter the round, the house will immediately also "purchase" tickets with three players D, E and F; which it controls, giving player D the winning ticket. Up to four additional legitimate players E, F, G and H can now join without the house losing the winning tickets.

Based on the houses earlier prediction, more players joining is unlikely. But even if an eighth legitimate player defies all odds and joins the round, causing the legitimate player E to now own the winning ticket, the house can simply add another eight puppets, giving the winning ticket back to the house and allowing more legitimate players to join without endangering the house's winning ticket. For all practical purposes this can be repeated as often as necessary. Alternatively, the house can simply prevent new players from joining the round past a certain point, for example by simply ignoring entries and blaming it on latency or bugs.

Such a winning strategy exists for every possible winning ticket.

TL;DR: The house can take advantage of information asymmetry by adding one or more fake players and thereby cheating the legitimate players of their winnings.

[btc-raffle.com]

You are incorrect the tickets are not "sequentially in the order' You could be the first player or the last player and get ticket number 1-1000 there is 100% no way for someone to pick there numbers its all 100% random.

Why do you bustabit kids keep trying to bash the site are you really that threatened by us?

[RHavar]

You are incorrect the tickets are not "sequentially in the order' You could be the first player or the last player and get ticket number 1-1000 there is 100% no way for someone to pick there numbers its all 100% random.

Picking a random number is fair, just that it's not provably fair.

Why do you bustabit kids keep trying to bash the site are you really that threatened by us?

I'm not sure who jlfvr is, but he doesn't represent bustabit (only I do). However, he does seem to make valid and well articulated points (which if it was me, would have no problem writing under my own name).


Anyway, I have approximately zero interest in your site, if I'm being honest I haven't even bothered to try understand your provably fair. If you stop bringing up bustabit, I'll have no reason to come here and defend its name.

Oh yeah, and as of at least ~10 minutes ago, either you or one of your "5" co-owners is spamming your link. I can promise you, you're doing far more harm to your brand than good. And seriously, for the next time you want to spam a competitor you should just use tor or something for plausible deniability. It's pretty embarrassing when it can be definitively linked to you..

[btc-raffle.com]

You are incorrect the tickets are not "sequentially in the order' You could be the first player or the last player and get ticket number 1-1000 there is 100% no way for someone to pick there numbers its all 100% random.

Picking a random number is fair, just that it's not provably fair.

Why do you bustabit kids keep trying to bash the site are you really that threatened by us?

I'm not sure who jlfvr is, but he doesn't represent bustabit (only I do). However, he does seem to make valid and well articulated points (which if it was me, would have no problem writing under my own name).


Anyway, I have approximately zero interest in your site, if I'm being honest I haven't even bothered to try understand your provably fair. If you stop bringing up bustabit, I'll have no reason to come here and defend its name.

Oh yeah, and as of at least ~10 minutes ago, either you or one of your "5" co-owners is spamming your link. I can promise you, you're doing far more harm to your brand than good. And seriously, for the next time you want to spam a competitor you should just use tor or something for plausible deniability. It's pretty embarrassing when it can be definitively linked to you..

Ok lets review what you just said.

"just that it's not provably fair."

Next line.

"being honest I haven't even bothered to try understand your provably fair."

Is it just me or does that make 0 sense...

You also are claiming the other accounts who are being used to bash us have nothing to do with bustabit now with one look at the other accounts its clear as day they are other admins of bustabit.

[RHavar]

Is it just me or does that make 0 sense...

...just you

You also are claiming the other accounts who are being used to bash us have nothing to do with bustabit now with one look at the other accounts its clear as day they are other admins of bustabit.

ffs. I don't know how to make this any clearer. There is no secret bustabit admin cabal. It's just me. I am the only bustabit admin.

(And as far as I can tell, jlfvr has done nothing to bash you. He's just discussed provably fair on a technical level, something which you seem unable to do)


Anyway, this is a huge waste of my time. I won't be responding here further, unless you drag me back into it.

[btc-raffle.com]

He has nothing to do with bustabit? really? ok lets look at his profile

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=685401;sa=showPosts

Makes an account goes to the bustabit thread then immediately after comes to my thread and attempts to bash it.

Looks like a admin to me. 

[RHavar]

He has nothing to do with bustabit? really? ok lets look at his profile

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=685401;sa=showPosts

Makes an account goes to the bustabit thread then immediately after comes to my thread and attempts to bash it.

Looks like a admin to me. 

I didn't say he has nothing to do with bustabit, but he's certainly not an admin (considering, that I'm the only one...).

Actually, he freely admits he's a bustabit player:

I am not here to "bash you", I'm here because someone—who turned out to be an owner of your site—kept and keeps spamming links to btc-raffle in bustabit's chat, so I decided to take a closer look. Was that not the intention? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

[btc-raffle.com]

He has nothing to do with bustabit? really? ok lets look at his profile

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=685401;sa=showPosts

Makes an account goes to the bustabit thread then immediately after comes to my thread and attempts to bash it.

Looks like a admin to me. 

I didn't say he has nothing to do with bustabit, but he's certainly not an admin (considering, that I'm the only one...).

Actually, he freely admits he's a bustabit player:

I am not here to "bash you", I'm here because someone—who turned out to be an owner of your site—kept and keeps spamming links to btc-raffle in bustabit's chat, so I decided to take a closer look. Was that not the intention? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

Ok so lets call him staff you can be the admin but clearly him and dexon work for you.

I was hoping you were going to stick to your words when you last said

"I won't be responding here further"

I have asked you and your staff to stay off my thread but you guys at this point are just acting like trolls.

[RHavar]

Ok so lets call him staff you can be the admin but clearly him and dexon work for you.

No he doesn't. He's an unpaid moderator, who runs a bot (Dexonbot) which anyone can do (e.g. Shiba is run by kungfuant).

I was hoping you were going to stick to your words when you last said

"I won't be responding here further"

My words were: "I won't be responding here further, unless you drag me back into it."  and immediately after you brought me into, by saying jlfvr is "Clearly an admin" which is something I felt the need to correct.

I have asked you and your staff to stay off my thread but you guys at this point are just acting like trolls.

I do not have any staff. And I would like nothing more than to be never visit this thread again, but you can't expect to continue to spam and make false claims about bustabit and me to not respond.


How about at truce? You don't spam on my site, and don't bring up false-claims about bustabit and I will never post on your thread, or visit your site again?

[btc-raffle.com]

I have told you 100 times i am not posting on your site. How many more times do i have to say that.

One thing i know for sure is people do not spend everyday all day on a website for free. It's very clear dexon is paid to promote bustabit he even is doing a lotto as a ploy to get people to bust. Cash out at X6 and you get entered into this fake lotto. He shows 0 proof the lotto isn't rigged or even shows any proof anyone has ever won. Stop acting like he don't work for you. Call it staff/admin what ever you want fact is he is part of your site.

Basically you and your staff have attacked my site i have proof. You and your staff been trying to bash my site sense day one.

I think its time for you guys to stop its getting old.

[RHavar]

I have told you 100 times i am not posting on your site. How many more times do i have to say that.

Did you check the support chat, where I talked to a co-owner who had the same ip and session data as the person who's been spamming? And responsible for the following spam-accounts (disclaimer: there may be 1 or 2 false positives in this list, as the spammer started switching to using a VPN service):

Code:

"getrecked"
"Give_it_chance"
"mesooooo"
"0Wnage11111"
"maybeimback"
"bestrafflesite"
"awesomeraffle"
"D3xonbot"
"dontbashus"
"whobe"
"tomtom"
"hearibe"
"winsomebtc"
"doubleyourbtcfas"
"yesspamsites"
"getlucktonight"
"bestlottosite2"
"bestlottosite1"
"spammychat"
"mahahahlol"
"whoisthis"
"ownage1111"
"justforfun"
"maybe_try_it"
"bustmybits"
"KatnissEverdeen"
"lolatryan"
"comeatmedog"
"heywhynotok"
"bestlottosite3"
"suckitryanskid"
"maybeitsfun"
"itstooofun"
"comeatmedexon"
"damnreckedbydexo"
"bestbtcsiteever"
"playarealgame"
"30secsanddouble"
"mybitsarebusted"
"keeptalkingshit"
"guesswhosbackkkk"
"whynottryit"
"yepyepyepyep"
"wowepicfaillol"
"hereweare"
"BTC-Raffle-com"
"googlebtcraffle"
"whynotwin"
"lolatdexon"
"Wassabee"
"doubleupbtc"
"beslottosite4"
"bettersite"
"0wnage111"
"botmarket"
"hahahahllololol"
"youbutthurt"
"myipreally"

One thing i know for sure is people do not spend everyday all day on a website for free. It's very clear dexon is paid to promote bustabit he even is doing a lotto as a ploy to get people to bust. Cash out at X6 and you get entered into this fake lotto. He shows 0 proof the lotto isn't rigged or even shows any proof anyone has ever won. Stop acting like he don't work for you. Call it staff/admin what ever you want fact is he is part of your site.

Basically you and your staff have attacked my site i have proof. You and your staff been trying to bash my site sense day one.

I think its time for you guys to stop its getting old.

I've already explained the relationship between Dexon and I. He's an unpaid chat moderator, who also plays on the site and wrote a bot. He created a lotto that tries to reward active chatters on the site. You used to enter by chatting, but that got abused to much -- so it was changed to betting (which you can use the faucet to achieve) and then you need to type "!claim" in time. The prize is a grand total of 100 bits (4 cents). It's not provably fair, it has never been and  I don't think anyone really cares. It's just a bit of fun

[btc-raffle.com]

You can say Dexon is unpaid but no one believes you when all he does every day all day is promote your site.

Just the fact he gives your members money proves it.

[~BtcRoll.com~]

Stop spamming on other sites it looks terrible, and dont even try to say it isnt you because no other site has done this before.

[jlfvr]

You are incorrect the tickets are not "sequentially in the order' You could be the first player or the last player and get ticket number 1-1000 there is 100% no way for someone to pick there numbers its all 100% random.

Any visitor to your site can clearly see that tickets are not randomly assigned, as I've already shown in this screencapture. The ranges in blue beside the players' names represent the tickets that a player holds. The n-th player to join will always hold tickets (n-1) * 10000/m +1 through n * 10000/m, where m is the total number of players. There is nothing random about it.

In addition, as I have also already explained, random ticket assignment would make it even easier and not harder to cheat with your current "provably fair" system:

If the ticket numbers were assigned to players randomly it would be easier—even trivial—for the house to cheat, not harder, because the house could simply "randomly" assign the winning ticket to a player it controls. There would be no way for players to verify that the tickets were indeed randomly allocated in your current system.

Just to humour you I'll revise my explanation for that scenario:

The house generates the lucky number 6000 and an arbitrary number of legitimate players join the round. The house joins the round itself with a player they control and "randomly" assigns the winning ticket to that player, ensuring the win for the house.