CNN: Money is flying out of China

[LiteCoinGuy]

Money is flying out of China

 On Monday, China's central bank reported $3.4 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, the lowest level since early 2013. November was one of the biggest drops ever.

Many investors are trying to get at least some of their money out of the country. Many Chinese see better opportunities abroad, whether it's real estate in New York or London, pricey art, or stocks and bonds in other countries.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/07/news/economy/china-foreign-exchange-reserves-shrinking/index.html

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[Denker]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

[virtualx]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

This is probably the reason why we see the rise of bitcoin price. China is at it again 

[worhiper_-_]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

Greece is kind of a different case. The crisis had already hit when bitcoin came in. In China, there were many business uportunities that sparked the interest to begin adopting bitcoin. In Greece however, there are no interesting bitcoin startaps giving locals any more reason to use bitcoin instead of cash money electronic transfers. 

[Zaduca]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

The volume in Chinese exchange cannot be taken seriously. There are 0% fee there. So the volume is 100 times than it should be.

[LuckyYOU]

I'm not surprised, it's actually really smart of them to do. Instead of spending all the money when business is booming, they are making a back up.
Just in case something happens with their economy, they will still have a buffer to fall back on.

[calkob]

Thats probably why when you look at www.fiatleak.com all the bitcoin seems to be going to china, its crazy    but good for bitcoin.

[Pierre 2]

I personally guessed this. Well so americans may start selling low in somewhere to take profit and exit.
(Just like old jump)

[zodiac3011]

well right from the first pump, China is behind it because of their capital control law and this cause many consequences. And here we are with the price of bitcoin at 450

[richardsNY]

That might explain the huge volumes at OkCoin and Huobi. I only think the majority of the money that is flowing out of China is being invested ultimately in real estate, and stocks.

[Kprawn]

The biggest trading volume is not coming from China, Coinbase had 142,463 BTC traded today, and BtcChina only 97,865 bitcoins. { In the last 24 hours }

The capital controls cannot be the reason for this movement alone, there must be something bigger coming. The Chinese are smart people, and if they moving loads of bitcoins,

we should investigate a little further.  

[n2004al]

Money is flying out of China

 On Monday, China's central bank reported $3.4 trillion in foreign exchange reserves, the lowest level since early 2013. November was one of the biggest drops ever.

Many investors are trying to get at least some of their money out of the country. Many Chinese see better opportunities abroad, whether it's real estate in New York or London, pricey art, or stocks and bonds in other countries.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/12/07/news/economy/china-foreign-exchange-reserves-shrinking/index.html

I bet that most of the money out of China are going in the form of bitcoin. If are measured or known such transactions (or amounts) or not this is another thing. But all this monetary activity and all that existing demand in China for bitcoin cannot be not reflected in such kind of activity. Who know how many Chinese people will want to hide their money from the tax system or only to not be known by no one their savings or earned amounts of money.

[amacar2]

Chinese money is flying that's why we are getting chance to ride on bitcoin price. We may attain new ATH in next year and i strongly believe on it as this time rise in price has reason to justify, Chinese are buying.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

This is what happens when a goverment tries to control people's capital, in combination with the fact the paradigm has shifted since 2009 and now people can be able to move wealth from A to B no matter how far A from B is and no matter what regulations you would have needed with other non-Bitcoin mediums of wealth transfer. This is a revolution and most people still don't get it.

[countryfree]

This is normal. When you begin to have quite a lot of money, you start to think about how to diversify to protect your wealth. It's only logical, the same thing goes in any country, but it's quite new in China, since recently, it was very difficult to move any money out of China. It has become easier but obviously, the government doesn't like it, and it wants to make it difficult again.

[Financial_Genius]

How many people did suffer from their actions ?

[HarryKPeters]

One of the reasons the chinese governement is that it is being used to transfer money outside of china. It's much easier (noone can regulate it like the banks).
The Russians have/had the same motive. And to be honest I think they are too late. Bitcoin has grown too much...

[BTCBinary]

Many chinese try to take some savings out of the country in an attempt to flea or to protect agains government capital control. This is a reaction to the huge tax load and an attempt to preserve one's wealth from the government

[OROBTC]

This is normal. When you begin to have quite a lot of money, you start to think about how to diversify to protect your wealth. It's only logical, the same thing goes in any country, but it's quite new in China, since recently, it was very difficult to move any money out of China. It has become easier but obviously, the government doesn't like it, and it wants to make it difficult again.

That would be my take as well.  Were I a rich Chinese guy, I certainly would look for an alternative place/investment outside of China's .gov control...  And Bitcoin would likely be the easiest way of getting capital out.

What would be interesting to know is how much of the newly-mined BTC by the various big-time BTC miners is going too...

*   *   *

Any Chinese investors interested in a high-end oceanfront condo, I would welcome a PM.  Payment (in part) in BTC OK.  Gold or cash too.

[DimensionZ]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

This is probably the reason why we see the rise of bitcoin price. China is at it again 

Yeah I read an article about China's falling yuan being one of the reasons for increasing the price of bitcoins.

[Slark]

Chinese people never had faith in their own currency (quite surprisingly, as we know that their economy very strong) they believed that yuan is sub par to Dollar.
So this of money flying out of China tendency is nothing odd and could help us establish even higher bitcoin price as a result. Good news for bitcoin community.

[Arcteryx]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

This is probably the reason why we see the rise of bitcoin price. China is at it again 

Didn't really see the connection before to China being a direct contributor to the increase in price by so much. It does in fact have a direct correlation to other currencies as the article states that the trading of foreign currencies leaving their shores is the cause. This I can see it being the reason.

[ajareselde]

Years of exploiting both people and land have come to charge their price, and it's not surprising either. China is well known as one of the leaders in
productions, but don't be mistaken, that can change faster than you think. CNY is as strong as what's backing it, and lately it's not much, and getting lesser by the day.

cheers

[Monnt]

Well, if China dumps the mass USD reserve that they have right now the US economy is going to be collapsing for sure.

The reason that China isn't doing it on a mass scale yet is because they want to make sure that the USD they have retains their value.

[pereira4]

Everytime that there's something going on with China the price of Bitcoin has been going up lately, it's pretty much now a confirmed pattern, I would say almost guaranteed that when something is about to happen with China capital controls it's a really good time to buy in if you are feeling lucky and think you can time the market to short some of your BTC.

[Pab]

CNN,That trilions didnt move  from.It is data from forex exchange,what way money flow,also   it is drop in exchange

It is becouse Chinise moved awayyuan from dollar basquets,Thay dont want to be yuan related to dollar
Whatever debt economy crash is coming

[avw1982]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

I think reason behind the large fall in China’s reserves in November would be that the total is reported in U.S. dollars. The dollar acquired in value against other foreign currencies recently, meaning any pounds or yen China held would look less valuable.

[hunnaryb]

Yuan is a little bit like the second tier crypto currencies. Everybody seems to want USD in the end and CNY is there to just facilitate the growth of their USD.

[Casdinyard]

The rich Chinese will not buy bitcoin in exchanges. They will buy it off the exchange. There are so many miners there.

[zenitzz]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

I think reason behind the large fall in China’s reserves in November would be that the total is reported in U.S. dollars. The dollar acquired in value against other foreign currencies recently, meaning any pounds or yen China held would look less valuable.

Part of the fall is China pouring billions of dollars into the hands of the corrupt Venezuelan government who have nothing to show for it.

[BTCRoyal]

Billions of Dollars wouldn't effect a nations currency, as you'd think. Especially, it being CNY and also take into account that if China knew that loaning that amount would put them at risk economically they would have not made the agreement on the loan.

[talks_cheep]

The rich Chinese will not buy bitcoin in exchanges. They will buy it off the exchange. There are so many miners there.

And why would the Chinese miners sell outside the exchanges? You're implying the Chinese miners would sell at low prices to the Rich Chinese. If I was a Chinese miner, I would sell at a good and fair price, especially to a Rich Chinaman.

If I was rich Chinese, why would I buy from a miner, off exchanges? That just makes no sense AT ALL>

[Blue_Tiger73]

I don't really understand why they would want to do this, and I don't think they do. Anyways, Bitcoin is still a very good investment to have.

[chennan]

Billions of Dollars wouldn't effect a nations currency, as you'd think. Especially, it being CNY and also take into account that if China knew that loaning that amount would put them at risk economically they would have not made the agreement on the loan.

Are you being serious?

That kind of thinking sends governments into turmoil, spending what they can't spend and borrowing from governments.  Now I know that if a government loans to another, then that means that in a way it will collect some kind of interest from it, and it is seen in the current US debt from Chinese loans... but this is not good for both sides at all.

It is basic Economics... when one major nation suffers economically, all major nations and thus fore, every nation suffers because of this.  This is why cryptocurrencies matter so much... it is because a digitalized/limited currency can make all nations play on the same "playing field" and allow trading/loaning to be "fair" in some aspects.

[OROBTC]

...

Another factor maybe worth thinking about as well re China and the US$ would be that if rates paid by US banks goes up (which probably will happen at some point), then more Chinese (and other) money will come here seeking a better return than at home.  So far, the US banks have raised their loan rates, but not rates paid to savers.

Typically, the banks are slow to raise rates paid, but very quick to raise rates on loans.  You see something similar happen when crude oil goes down, gasoline prices take a while to go down.  But, they react much more quickly to raise prices when crude goes up.

So, if rates look like they will continue to go up (and there is a "sort of consensus" that the FED will raise two - four times next year), then I would expect MOAR Chinese money to flow here.

[Zaduca]

...

Another factor maybe worth thinking about as well re China and the US$ would be that if rates paid by US banks goes up (which probably will happen at some point), then more Chinese (and other) money will come here seeking a better return than at home.  So far, the US banks have raised their loan rates, but not rates paid to savers.

Typically, the banks are slow to raise rates paid, but very quick to raise rates on loans.  You see something similar happen when crude oil goes down, gasoline prices take a while to go down.  But, they react much more quickly to raise prices when crude goes up.

So, if rates look like they will continue to go up (and there is a "sort of consensus" that the FED will raise two - four times next year), then I would expect MOAR Chinese money to flow here.

Interest rates in commercial banks will rise eventually. The dollar will become stronger so the money will flow out of any other countries.

[LuckyYOU]

Transferring money to another account was one of the good things that they have done

Seeing as the market as been in the red and has been closing earlier than usual.

[Raimonn]

The rich Chinese will not buy bitcoin in exchanges. They will buy it off the exchange. There are so many miners there.

And why would the Chinese miners sell outside the exchanges? You're implying the Chinese miners would sell at low prices to the Rich Chinese. If I was a Chinese miner, I would sell at a good and fair price, especially to a Rich Chinaman.

If I was rich Chinese, why would I buy from a miner, off exchanges? That just makes no sense AT ALL>

Why you think that minners will sell the bitcoins at lower prices? I think that if the chinese miners sell off exchanges will do it at higher prices. Exchangers ask for id documents, and this people don't want that its govern knows that they are trying to take its money out off the country.

[Pkzone]

This is normal. When you begin to have quite a lot of money, you start to think about how to diversify to protect your wealth. It's only logical, the same thing goes in any country, but it's quite new in China, since recently, it was very difficult to move any money out of China. It has become easier but obviously, the government doesn't like it, and it wants to make it difficult again.

That would be my take as well.  Were I a rich Chinese guy, I certainly would look for an alternative place/investment outside of China's .gov control...  And Bitcoin would likely be the easiest way of getting capital out.

What would be interesting to know is how much of the newly-mined BTC by the various big-time BTC miners is going too...

*   *   *

Any Chinese investors interested in a high-end oceanfront condo, I would welcome a PM.  Payment (in part) in BTC OK.  Gold or cash too.

Hmm, I think you are right.

[pereira4]

Billions of Dollars wouldn't effect a nations currency, as you'd think. Especially, it being CNY and also take into account that if China knew that loaning that amount would put them at risk economically they would have not made the agreement on the loan.

It may not affect a nations currency, but it's an huge impact on the bitcoin marketcap which is only a tiny amount at the moment, not even 2 figure billion marketcap yet, we are yet to see x1000 growth minimum, I wish a couple of countries pulled a China/Cyprus and everyone started getting their money out of their respective countries thanks to Bitcoin.

[Yakamoto]

Billions of Dollars wouldn't effect a nations currency, as you'd think. Especially, it being CNY and also take into account that if China knew that loaning that amount would put them at risk economically they would have not made the agreement on the loan.

It may not affect a nations currency, but it's an huge impact on the bitcoin marketcap which is only a tiny amount at the moment, not even 2 figure billion marketcap yet, we are yet to see x1000 growth minimum, I wish a couple of countries pulled a China/Cyprus and everyone started getting their money out of their respective countries thanks to Bitcoin.

Any group of people that begin to start selling their traditional currency for Bitcoin is pretty big, not only does it show that the people have faith in the currency, but it also shows that there are people willing to use it to store their wealth, regardless off the volatility.

I am sure that if the stock market continues to swing down as it has, we'll see some more people in countries start pulling a cyprus, a lot of people have been worrying about a repeat of 2008/2009 for a while.

[Casdinyard]

I am sure that if the stock market continues to swing down as it has, we'll see some more people in countries start pulling a cyprus, a lot of people have been worrying about a repeat of 2008/2009 for a while.

If the stock market drops another 10-15%, we will see some companies go bankrupt so it will affect the banking system.

[EdenHazard]

so is this one of cause bitcoin prices jumped sharply in November? whether the current conditions in China still continues? and whether this January will be more severe? what effect the bitcoin prices if investors china switch to bitcoin?

[DimensionZ]

I am not sure if the businessmen in China will switch to bitcoins but today in an article I read online was said that because of the falling yuan and oil prices the leading rich people lost billions just in January like 5-6 billions per person. Bitcoin prices are even more fluctuating than these recent stock market lows.

[Denker]

so is this one of cause bitcoin prices jumped sharply in November? whether the current conditions in China still continues? and whether this January will be more severe? what effect the bitcoin prices if investors china switch to bitcoin?

That's a good question.
If chinese investors use Bitcoin to get their money out of the country I'm sure they will quickly convert it back to fiat and put it somewhere offshore on a bank or buy properties, art,  old limited classic cars etc. with it. Therefore the price of Bitcoin will only increase shortly.
Another possibility would be that a part of their money will be stored in Bitcoin.Then we could see a constant mid- to long term increase.

[lethalethereal]

Yes this might be one of the reasons why chinese exchanges are running like hell since weeks.
Good for Bitcoin!The chinese aren't that dumb or naive as the greeks.
When shit hits the fence you have to be prepared!Or better to feather one's own nest!

Yes, bitcoin is a method for moving money quickly and fast: perfect for export money and make investment on other country

[botany]

I am not sure if the businessmen in China will switch to bitcoins but today in an article I read online was said that because of the falling yuan and oil prices the leading rich people lost billions just in January like 5-6 billions per person. Bitcoin prices are even more fluctuating than these recent stock market lows.

The advantage of having bitcoins is that you can transfer them out of China and convert them into other assets.
So even if bitcoin prices fluctuate, people may be trying to get their hands on them in China.

[hartanto]

Yes, also about the stock market closing issues, i think they will try to hedge their asset using bitcoins, therefore, we will soon see the spike from the chinese traders/business owner, i think the price will be ascending for the week

[Tavos]

Good for bitcoin! Probably why the BTC price is going up. Price should continue to go up for a while.

[OROBTC]

I am not sure if the businessmen in China will switch to bitcoins but today in an article I read online was said that because of the falling yuan and oil prices the leading rich people lost billions just in January like 5-6 billions per person. Bitcoin prices are even more fluctuating than these recent stock market lows.

The advantage of having bitcoins is that you can transfer them out of China and convert them into other assets.
So even if bitcoin prices fluctuate, people may be trying to get their hands on them in China.

It's now 1:00 AM (US ET), and China & the rest of Asia are down hard again.  People in China are selling stocks and apparently trying to get even more money out of China (at least parts of the leadership are).

Dow futures are down some 35 points, off its lows of over 100 points earlier.

This was "another one of those weekends", we'll see what the week itself has in store.

[madonnino]

Good for bitcoin! Probably why the BTC price is going up. Price should continue to go up for a while.

the china stock market bubble burst, we will see how the market will react ', we hope to convince some big shot you convert a lot of money in bitcoin

[Swordsoffreedom]

Good for bitcoin! Probably why the BTC price is going up. Price should continue to go up for a while.

the china stock market bubble burst, we will see how the market will react ', we hope to convince some big shot you convert a lot of money in bitcoin

In classical terms Blood is on the streets someone out there will buy up those positions but right now is not that time
Bubble Pop
The Shanghai Composite closed down 5.3%, and the Shenzhen Composite ended 6.6% lower.
http://money.cnn.com/2016/01/10/investing/china-stocks/

[Zaduca]

Good for bitcoin! Probably why the BTC price is going up. Price should continue to go up for a while.

the china stock market bubble burst, we will see how the market will react ', we hope to convince some big shot you convert a lot of money in bitcoin

No only China, the world stock market bubbles burst. So the bitcoin could be a safe heaven for the money seeking refuge.