Bitcoin becoming centrally planned: Communist

[RealBitcoin]

No, you have the wrong philosophy. Everything needs development and improvement. Without improving medicine, the average lifespan would not be in the 70s and 80s; we would not have eradicated diseases like smallpox; diseases that we don't consider life threatening would kill you. In industry, improvements increase output, efficiency, quality among others. Without improvements to our technology, you wouldn't even be here on the internet discussing on an internet forum about a new technology called Bitcoin. If everything simply stopped at the first iteration like you are suggesting, then we would still be using rocks and living in caves. Improvements and development of things are required to advance anything.

Yea like the 10000s of cancer cures? Howe about prevention instead of those scam medicines. How about dont drink fluorided water and breath chemtrailed air.

It is resilient. Bitcoin right now can survive a lot of things, including forks. But there can be improvements made. If development were to stop, bitcoin would still work, but it would not be its best.

How exactly is it a command and control vehicle for manipulation in the future?

The code is resilient, the humans arent.

It's easier to manipulate bitcoin users towards a dark agenda, than to mess with the code.

Again, open source. If we don't like what the developers do, then we just fork and use a client created by other developers. Even if one country regulates Bitcoin, that doesn't mean that all countries will. Developers in other countries can simply step in and replace those that were removed due to regulation.

And who is we? Most bitcoin users dont really care or are ignorant about this. It is becoming centralized either way, if it's not decentralized by design, with no "updates"

[franky1]

Realbitcoin.. please go to sleep and have a sober conversation tomorrow. you losing your own argument the more you talk tonight

[Hazir]

I believe it is better to have one good leader than bunch of people pulling strings in different directions. Democracy is not the best option here.
But from the other side dictatorship of developers are not the best option either. Recent discussion about XT and block size limit shows that we have to invent some way to steering bitcoin.
Maybe global voting platform build in bitcoin wallets?

[thirdchance57]

I agree that you need to keep the development going.  Whether or not the development keeps running, the government can try to step in any time they want to take control, so there is no difference whether or not the development keeps moving forward.  We need further development in the times coming because people will want different options and if the development should ever stop, then someone else will improve on the system and the system will soon be extinct. 

[IgnorantBitCoin]

RealBitcoin is rigth!

Franky1 say: "ith mining in china, iceland, canada, uk, and europe.. i dont see mining as centralised."

See: https://blockchain.info/pt/pools
F2Pool 25%
AntPool 22%
BitFury 15%
together 62% power mine > 51%...

i see mining as centralised and Wallet too.

[IgnorantBitCoin]

I don't remember where I read gavin andresen say that small full nodes are nothing in terms of consensus against greater wallet online, he said that power was the big investors (big $user$ bitcoin), but besides these were the big miners and big wallet have force.

We seize the new more professional stage. Probably a sort of BC will be developed. bitcoin will remain strong, but centralized.

human should like powers centralized. Most major bitcoin depositors just want anonymity, they don't care centralization.

I hate it, but so is do.

I execute a full node... Still

Wake up !!

[RealBitcoin]

RealBitcoin is rigth!

Franky1 say: "ith mining in china, iceland, canada, uk, and europe.. i dont see mining as centralised."

See: https://blockchain.info/pt/pools
F2Pool 25%
AntPool 22%
BitFury 15%
together 62% power mine > 51%...

i see mining as centralised and Wallet too.

Yes that is too. But development is a problem too.

We can easily guess that now POS currencies are superior to BTC, they are ecofriendly and cannot get victim to a 51% attack, and if their prices would be higher than it would be even more secure than POW.

POW at the moment is more secure, but if this persists, it will lose it's appeal in the future.

[franky1]

RealBitcoin is rigth!

Franky1 say: "ith mining in china, iceland, canada, uk, and europe.. i dont see mining as centralised."

See: https://blockchain.info/pt/pools
F2Pool 25%
AntPool 22%
BitFury 15%
together 62% power mine > 51%...

i see mining as centralised and Wallet too.

your name says it all..

combining 3 different companies with operations in atleast 5 different countries, with investors from atleast 12 different countries.. does not make them a combined force.. thats just opinion. your opinion, no one elses

do you realise that it is as easy as 3 lines of code to say that if block solved by 1 entity more than less than 4 blocks ago, we can ignore that block and accept whoever solved second instead.. that way it prevents 4 miners from solving blocks repeatedly,

do you realise that it is as easy as not upgrading software to vote against change.
do you realise that it is as easy as saying no to drugs for you to start having rational thoughts within a week..

Realbitcoin should try the last one..

[achow101]

Yea like the 10000s of cancer cures? Howe about prevention instead of those scam medicines. How about dont drink fluorided water and breath chemtrailed air.

Would you rather that there be absolutely no chance for a cure for cancer? The fact that we have researchers looking for cures means that the odds of finding one are greater than 0, and that is much better than guaranteeing that there is no cure.

Prevention you say, well vaccines prevent illnesses. But without advances in medicine we wouldn't have vaccines. Without further advances there wouldn't be vaccines for new diseases, and we wouldn't be able to improve the current ones to work better.

The code is resilient, the humans arent.

It's easier to manipulate bitcoin users towards a dark agenda, than to mess with the code.

While true, it is just as easy to manipulate users away from a dark agenda. It is easy to manipulate people to revolt, as we have seen historically in a number of large revolutions.

And who is we? Most bitcoin users dont really care or are ignorant about this. It is becoming centralized either way, if it's not decentralized by design, with no "updates"

We is the users of Bitcoin. There are many users of Bitcoin who, like me, actually give a shit and research things. If we (technologically savvy and actually caring about the code and technical details) are aware of changes being made that could be disastrous, we would let everyone know. And most people who use Bitcoin now are not ignorant and many people do care. It will be the people who join later if/when bitcoin goes mainstream that don't care and are ignorant.

[IgnorantBitCoin]

your name says it all..

KKKKKK

pensei que a brincadeira iria passar em branco... (Did not understand?)

Now , three miners = 62 % , in few year, how many hash Percentage of the F2Pool ? >51? I don't now.

[jaberwock]

Unless for some miracle everyone becomes a pro programer with lots of free time,  I think would be impossible the situation be much better.

We need reliable people to make the common user know when the things are really getting bad

[achow101]

Now , three miners = 62 % , in few year, how many hash Percentage of the F2Pool ? >51? I don't now.

If they do get close to 50% of the hash power, miners will move away from mining on F2Pool. Miners understand that if they give a pool too much hash power they could potentially do terrible things to the network. And there is a precendence for this. A few years ago GHash.io was a huge mining pool, and it actually did reach more than 50% of the hash power. However once miners noticed, they moved away from using ghash.io and went to other pools. All of the miners who mined on that pool no longer did and thus they lost hash power. The same will happen if f2pool or any other pool gets close to or obtains the majority of the hash power.

[IgnorantBitCoin]

We is the users of Bitcoin. There are many users of Bitcoin who, like me, actually give a shit and research things. If we (technologically savvy and actually caring about the code and technical details) are aware of changes being made that could be disastrous, we would let everyone know. And most people who use Bitcoin now are not ignorant and many people do care. It will be the people who join later if/when bitcoin goes mainstream that don't care and are ignorant.

Nobody read gavin say "who really rules the Bitcoin"? I only reader?

Only Those Who invested a lot of money is what important, others can scream have been ignored. I was sad, but  It's always been like that and this will always be so.

[achow101]

Only Those Who invested a lot of money is what important, others can scream have been ignored. I was sad, but  It's always been like that and this will always be so.

Right, only those who actively use Bitcoin and don't just hodl. They are the people who actively participate in the economy and they are the ones that can exert influence. It has always been like this and always will be, as that is how every economy works.

Everything depends on the users, those actually spending. Businesses will accept what people are using, exchanges will accept what people are using, and so will miners because then they can use what they are mining.

Those who have a lot of Bitcoin and just hodl don't have any control. They can't do anything because they aren't actually participating in the economy, so they have little influence.

[maokoto]

Although developers and miners hold power (which I feel it is deserved due to their work for Bitcoin) users still can dislike what they do running away from Bitcoin, or showing their conformity by holding on to Bitcoin. I do not see reason for worries.

If Bitcoin becomes too controlled there are thousands of alts too... I know they are not worth much right now, but that is because users (not developers) chosed Bitcoin, and can chose other if they think Bitcoin is not providing what they want.

[IgnorantBitCoin]

Right, only those who actively use Bitcoin and don't just hodl. They are the people who actively participate in the economy and they are the ones that can exert influence.....

Do you think They are caring against centralization? Or they only think of profits

I really want that not going on the move to centralization.

[achow101]

Right, only those who actively use Bitcoin and don't just hodl. They are the people who actively participate in the economy and they are the ones that can exert influence.....

Do you think They are caring against centralization? Or they only think of profits

Who are "They"?

Are you saying that you don't actively participate in the economy (by buying and selling stuff) so that means that you can care about centralization but those who participate don't? That is flawed logic. I participate in the economy, and I care about this. Other people also participate, and they clearly care about centralization and where Bitcoin is going. And it does also affect their profits. If Bitcoin goes in a direction that is bad for Bitcoin, then they are going to lose profits. So yes, they will care if it goes in a direction that makes them lose profits.

[IgnorantBitCoin]

Although developers and miners hold power (which I feel it is deserved due to their work for Bitcoin) users still can dislike what they do running away from Bitcoin, or showing their conformity by holding on to Bitcoin. I do not see reason for worries.

If Bitcoin becomes too controlled there are thousands of alts too... I know they are not worth much right now, but that is because users (not developers) chosed Bitcoin, and can chose other if they think Bitcoin is not providing what they want.

Of course, but what big players want to bitcoin, will be the same we want?

[IgnorantBitCoin]

The hash power began to rise exponentially again.
Why, if before was almost linear.

https://blockchain.info/pt/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

Why this new trend of super rise?

[achow101]

The hash power began to rise exponentially again.
Why, if before was almost linear.

https://blockchain.info/pt/charts/hash-rate?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

This is off topic, but to answer your question, it is due to the recent release of new ASIC hardware. More efficient ASIC mining hardware has made mining a little cheaper so more people are mining. They also have higher hashrates so people are replacing their equipment and getting more hash power. If you are insinuating that there is some conspiracy to increase the hash power and do something malicious, you are wrong.