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hitchingAride
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December 29, 2015, 03:10:59 PM
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It seems majority of us involved in bitcoin are speculative which I have nothing against. But how would you try and calculate the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is there any way you measure when bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued? I am curious if their are fundamentals in bitcoin... for example are their any economic indicators that affect bitcoin in a similar way to how earnings reports might affect stocks.

greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
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December 29, 2015, 03:34:33 PM
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bitcoin in certainly undervalued, in my view, if its value can not sustain the mining activity, this is the only real parameter to calculate somehow its real value
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December 29, 2015, 06:47:58 PM
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It seems majority of us involved in bitcoin are speculative which I have nothing against. But how would you try and calculate the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is there any way you measure when bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued? I am curious if their are fundamentals in bitcoin... for example are their any economic indicators that affect bitcoin in a similar way to how earnings reports might affect stocks.

I would avoid using the terms "intrinsic" and "value" together because the discussion gets bogged down in what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.

What you are looking for is the value of the utility of Bitcoin, which is difficult enough to determine, but what you should be looking for is the discounted future price of a bitcoin.

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December 29, 2015, 06:52:51 PM
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It seems majority of us involved in bitcoin are speculative which I have nothing against. But how would you try and calculate the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is there any way you measure when bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued? I am curious if their are fundamentals in bitcoin... for example are their any economic indicators that affect bitcoin in a similar way to how earnings reports might affect stocks.
*bop bop*

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December 29, 2015, 07:47:32 PM
 #5

It seems majority of us involved in bitcoin are speculative which I have nothing against. But how would you try and calculate the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is there any way you measure when bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued? I am curious if their are fundamentals in bitcoin... for example are their any economic indicators that affect bitcoin in a similar way to how earnings reports might affect stocks.

I would avoid using the terms "intrinsic" and "value" together because the discussion gets bogged down in what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.

What you are looking for is the value of the utility of Bitcoin, which is difficult enough to determine, but what you should be looking for is the discounted future price of a bitcoin.


Yes, I would agree with most of this.  Some words have slippery definitions ("money" is a great example).

Not even gold has "intrinsic value" (at least in the sense that its current value of +/- $1070) in that it has APPLICATIONS approaching its price.

Indeed, utility of Bitcoin (where you can spend it, etc.) is hard enough to determine.  For me, being able to buy gold with BTC is good enough (to give it "value"), BTC's easy transportability is also of potentially great value too.

Further ACCEPTANCE by more merchants and users seems to be the key to increasing BTC value.
hitchingAride
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December 29, 2015, 08:44:24 PM
 #6

It seems majority of us involved in bitcoin are speculative which I have nothing against. But how would you try and calculate the intrinsic value of bitcoin? Is there any way you measure when bitcoin is undervalued or overvalued? I am curious if their are fundamentals in bitcoin... for example are their any economic indicators that affect bitcoin in a similar way to how earnings reports might affect stocks.

I would avoid using the terms "intrinsic" and "value" together because the discussion gets bogged down in what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.

What you are looking for is the value of the utility of Bitcoin, which is difficult enough to determine, but what you should be looking for is the discounted future price of a bitcoin.


Yes, I would agree with most of this.  Some words have slippery definitions ("money" is a great example).

Not even gold has "intrinsic value" (at least in the sense that its current value of +/- $1070) in that it has APPLICATIONS approaching its price.

Indeed, utility of Bitcoin (where you can spend it, etc.) is hard enough to determine.  For me, being able to buy gold with BTC is good enough (to give it "value"), BTC's easy transportability is also of potentially great value too.

Further ACCEPTANCE by more merchants and users seems to be the key to increasing BTC value.

Gold and Bitcoin do not have intrinsic value then. Their really is no way of measuring when a bitcoin is undervalued/overvalued. While bitcoin does have block chain technology, it is never going to produce any earnings. I guess you could say any value from bitcoin is not related to what it can produce (nothing) but rather what other people are willing to pay for it.

greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
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December 30, 2015, 04:24:37 AM
 #7

Real Bitcoin value can only be calculated on basis of mining cost vs mining reward per block. Mining reward is getting lowered with time passes so the bitcoin value also have to rise to make balance between the cost and income. But looking at the currenct price and if it remain same before halving than certainly it is undervalued. Real value depend upon place to place where electricity cost are also different.

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December 30, 2015, 04:27:56 AM
 #8

Bitcoin doesnt have an intrinsic value, however there is a fixed amount of BTC that can ever exist so unlike fiat, bitcoins aren't inflationary.

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December 30, 2015, 03:00:48 PM
 #9


what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.


That's a little like asking whether this reality actually exists  Cheesy  If every single human on earth derives benefit in one way or another from an object that is non-essential for survival, it doesn't matter that the whole world feels that the object doesn't hold any intrinsic value, it's power is real and independent of the people's will.
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December 30, 2015, 03:42:00 PM
 #10

There is intrinsic value of bitcoin, it is linked to the blockchain.
Each bitcoin gives the holder the ability to save a large number of short messages, linked with your TX in a globally distributed and time stamped permanent data store - the blockchain.
This message saving certainly has intrinsic value since it can be used to prove ownership of a document at a certain time, by including a hash of that document in a transaction.
If you think that electronic notarization services charge something like $10/document, this would give an intrinsic value of around $10,000 per bitcoin.
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December 30, 2015, 05:48:10 PM
 #11


[discussion gets bogged down in] what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.


That's a little like asking whether this reality actually exists  Cheesy  If every single human on earth derives benefit in one way or another from an object that is non-essential for survival, it doesn't matter that the whole world feels that the object doesn't hold any intrinsic value, it's power is real and independent of the people's will.

Just as I predicted in my first post ...

Anyway, "intrinsic" implies an objective value, yet all value is subjective. Objective value does not exist, therefore neither does intrinsic value.

Also, inaccessible bitcoins have no value. If all bitcoins have an intrinsic value, and these bitcoins have a value of 0, then the intrinsic value of a bitcoin must be 0.

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hitchingAride
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December 30, 2015, 07:03:11 PM
 #12

Just as I predicted in my first post ...

Anyway, "intrinsic" implies an objective value, yet all value is subjective. Objective value does mot exist, therefore neither does intrinsic value.

Also, inaccessible bitcoins have no value. If all bitcoins have an intrinsic value, and these bitcoins have a value of 0, then the intrinsic value of a bitcoin must be 0.

While I now agree it is impossible to measure the intrinsic value of bitcoin since when we buy bitcoin it is in hopes that more people will adopt it, the value comes from hope and the belief it should be valued so.

But I disagree when you say "all value is subjective. Objective value does mot exist, therefore neither does intrinsic value." How could all value be subjective? if you took some company and took all of it's tangible assets - liabilities = book value...

now this book value would be what the owners would receive if the hypothetical company liquidated everything. You could go one step forward and look at the annual earnings of the company that gets reinvested thus increasing the book value year to year. If you made a forecast over say ten years of the earning put back into the company and then discounted it you could calculate intrinsic value.
 
"In the short run, the market is a voting machine but in the long run, it is a weighing machine.”  -Benjamin Graham

greed, for lack of a better word, is good.
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December 30, 2015, 08:27:54 PM
 #13

the only time i believe bitcoin will have any real value is when the wealth of it is spread among many more people, at present there are still far too many people holding grossly large amounts of them thus being able to manipulate the price to easily. 

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December 31, 2015, 12:48:58 AM
 #14

I think a problem bitcoin will face in the future is that part of it's value is the idea that it will be worth X100 what it is worth now. Many people are just in it for the growth.

Now where this becomes an issue is when we reach a point where it can't double you money in a few months. It better have been able to create some type of value at that point

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December 31, 2015, 03:00:56 AM
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[discussion gets bogged down in] what is "intrinsic" and does it actually exist.


That's a little like asking whether this reality actually exists  Cheesy  If every single human on earth derives benefit in one way or another from an object that is non-essential for survival, it doesn't matter that the whole world feels that the object doesn't hold any intrinsic value, it's power is real and independent of the people's will.

Just as I predicted in my first post ...

Anyway, "intrinsic" implies an objective value, yet all value is subjective. Objective value does not exist, therefore neither does intrinsic value.

Also, inaccessible bitcoins have no value. If all bitcoins have an intrinsic value, and these bitcoins have a value of 0, then the intrinsic value of a bitcoin must be 0.


I don't think you understood my post, what I'm saying is that if everyone uses this non-essential object, whether it has objective or subjective value no longer matters, questioning whether objective value actually exists becomes meaningless. It no longer matters whether you acknowledge the object as having intrinsic value, it has an intrinsic value that is independent of your awareness.  I'm not talking specifically about Bitcoin here.
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December 31, 2015, 07:19:32 AM
 #16

I think bitcoin is definitely undervalued because a lot of what makes it easy and groundbreaking is lost on the majority of people. I don't know what price that reflects, but socially I think it's way undervalued. Even for being at the price it's at in so few years of existence.
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